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Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism
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Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You don't need to spell it out--I understand your point. You know that you
can prove almost anything you wish to prove with statistics.

That is one of the standard dodges used by those who do not understand
valid and correct use of statistics.

Let's assume
Quote:
that fish now contain higher levels of mercury than ever before.

Why? We have been REDUCING the levels of Mercury in pollution for many
years. I would assume that they are LESS, if anything.

That
Quote:
would mean that the rates of autism would be higher in 2015 even if no
vaccines contained in thimerosal when those children that developed autism
were born.

Only if you assume that there is a link. What you are doing is called
circular reasoning.

Quote:
Did the paper even mention the issue of mercury levels in fish?

Why would it?

Quote:
In other words, there are other factors (eg mercury levels in fish)
involved that the paper did not mention. Do you see my point? The type of
mercury in fish is even more dangerous
than the type of mercury in thimerosal--but you already knew that.

True, that is one of the many things that I already knew. I also already
knew that there is no link between autism and mercury. Period.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You may believe that there is "no link between autism and mercury" but
that does NOT mean you are correct. I could believe that Bill Clinton came
from Mars but that would not mean that I am correct. The experts at FDA
want to ban mercury from vaccines. Are you saying that you know MORE than
those experts? I agree with the experts at FDA--mercury should not be used
in vaccines. I don't know whether or not it causes autism. As far as I
know, the experts are not certain as to the cause of autism. If possible,
try to find out if the level of mercury in fish is now higher or lower
than it was in the past.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You don't need to spell it out--I understand your point. You know that you
can prove almost anything you wish to prove with statistics.

That is one of the standard dodges used by those who do not understand
valid and correct use of statistics.

Let's assume
that fish now contain higher levels of mercury than ever before.

Why? We have been REDUCING the levels of Mercury in pollution for many
years. I would assume that they are LESS, if anything.

That
would mean that the rates of autism would be higher in 2015 even if no
vaccines contained in thimerosal when those children that developed autism
were born.

Only if you assume that there is a link. What you are doing is called
circular reasoning.

Did the paper even mention the issue of mercury levels in fish?

Why would it?

In other words, there are other factors (eg mercury levels in fish)
involved that the paper did not mention. Do you see my point? The type of
mercury in fish is even more dangerous
than the type of mercury in thimerosal--but you already knew that.

True, that is one of the many things that I already knew. I also already
knew that there is no link between autism and mercury. Period.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You may believe that there is "no link between autism and mercury" but
that does NOT mean you are correct. I could believe that Bill Clinton came
from Mars but that would not mean that I am correct.

What utter bullshit you type. Not all opinions are created equal. Mine
are based on the irrefutable fact that the overwhelming evidence is that
there is no link between autism and mercury exposure.

Bill Clinton and Mars? There is no evidence for that. You use a bullshit
analogy.

The experts at FDA
Quote:
want to ban mercury from vaccines. Are you saying that you know MORE than
those experts?

You must have some degree of brain damage. We have been down this path
before. I pointed out, and Bryan proved, that the decision to remove
thimerosal from vaccines had more to do with affecting public
perceptions and preserving the herd effect (I assume that you have heard
of the herd effect and know its importance) than with any true safety
concerns.

You ought to check your memory (not at the door) before you type.

I agree with the experts at FDA--mercury should not be used
Quote:
in vaccines. I don't know whether or not it causes autism. As far as I
know, the experts are not certain as to the cause of autism.

The experts are examining one major area, i.e. genetics, something that
you acknowledged knowing nothing about. Do not feel bad, though, Geier
neglected to mention that cause when he proffered his testimony at a
Daubert hearing, and, he IS a geneticist. Imagine that.

If possible,
Quote:
try to find out if the level of mercury in fish is now higher or lower
than it was in the past.

Do your own homework. Frankly, Jason, I am tired of doing it for you,
and it is unethical. You will not learn anything unless you do it yourself.
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:

Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.


True, but removal of the thimerosal from vaccines should reduce the
rates of autism as there would be less overall mercury exposure. So if
autism were a factor we would expect to see, at the very least, a small
drop in the cases of autism. rather, a modest increase was seen.


The reason is that mercury is found in wood preservatives, paints,
fungicides,
cosmetics, foods, seeds and in contaminated fish. The mercury castastrophe
in Minamata Bay, Japan, involved ingestion of methylmercury-contaminated
fish--it led to severe neurologic defects.

Yes, but to account for the data from this paper the amount of mercury
in the environment would have had to increase such that kids were now
being exposed to more mercury then before. As John and Jan like to
frequently remind us, kids often receive high doses of mercury during
vaccination courses. As such it is very difficult to see how there
could have been an equivalent increase in environmental mercury;
especially without such an increase being noticed. Certantly, none of
Canada's or Quebec environmental and health testing departments noted
such an increase.

Bryan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bryan,
Good points, however, I seem to recall reading articles indicating that
the amount of mercury in the environment is going higher every year.

You found them once, do it again, and post the URLs to support your claim.


If
Quote:
that is
true, don't you agree that it would have an effect on the statistics that
you mentioned in your recent posts.

No, since Mercury does not cause Autism.
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