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| Author |
Message |
sinister
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Too much government in healthcare professions
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<danthefan73@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124457891.063177.172130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | JEDilworth wrote:
I suppose you would have unlicensed pharmacists; unlicensed registered
nurses, unlicensed physicians. Let them all do their own thing. To hell
with the patients.
I personally don't have a problem with licensure. I just happen to live
in a state that doesn't require it. I think it would be a good thing to
have all the techs on the same footing and on the same page, frankly.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I said
earlier in my posts.
I'm all for accountability, continuing
education, and licensing of health
professionals. And perhaps government
has some role to play in achieving these
goals. But I object to excessive government
involvement in these professional issues.
Not all government is bad. A democratic
government that balances people's rights,
freedoms, and obligations in a fair way is
good and necessary.
But there is such a thing as 'too much
government'. And you have too much
government, when the government becomes
dictatorial, intrusive, and unresponsive
to people's needs. And that's what I'm
afraid is happening now with government
involvement in regulating health
professionals.
For example, I find it hard to believe
that the healthcare standards are so
different in Ohio from those in Florida
that they need two different licensing
bodies. Why do technologists have to go
through all that bureaucratic hassle to
prove their competence, when they want to
change jobs and move from one state to
another?
|
This is the price we pay for federalism.
IMHO there's too much federalism in the economic sphere. The lack of
economies of scale which you refer to is just crazy, and it's hardly limited
to licensing of professionals.
| Quote: | This is what I call an intrusive government
that is unresponsive to the needs of medical
technologists.
I find it hard to believe that a national
organization like ASCP cannot help
technologists maintain their competence on
its own. Why do state governments have to
add another layer of bureaucracy and
effectively split up the job market for
technologists into small little pieces?
People, including technologists, have the
constitutional right and freedom to move
from one job to another and from one state
to another as they wish. And when state
governments begin to interfere with this
freedom through administrative barriers,
then people like myself are right to complain.
If people were not allowed to drive their car,
when they moved from one state to another.
If they had to prove that they can drive a
car every time they moved from one state to
another. Then how many people do you think
would complain that this is an unreasonable
government interference with their rights
and freedoms?
I think that virtually everybody who wants to
go from one state to another would complain.
The same is true in licensing health professionals.
I can understand that some state governments
know that there is a shortage of healthcare
workers. And I can understand that they want
to prevent movement of health professionals
graduating from their schools to other states.
But I think that setting up these administrative
barriers which interfere with people's freedom
of movement is unethical. And medical
technologists who care about their profession
and about their personal ethics should not be
participating in this.
Technologists who help their state governments
set up these administrative barriers are doing
a disservice to their profession. And they
should be ashamed of themselves.
|
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| Back to top |
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sinister
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Too much government in healthcare professions
|
|
|
<danthefan73@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124457891.063177.172130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | JEDilworth wrote:
I suppose you would have unlicensed pharmacists; unlicensed registered
nurses, unlicensed physicians. Let them all do their own thing. To hell
with the patients.
I personally don't have a problem with licensure. I just happen to live
in a state that doesn't require it. I think it would be a good thing to
have all the techs on the same footing and on the same page, frankly.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I said
earlier in my posts.
I'm all for accountability, continuing
education, and licensing of health
professionals. And perhaps government
has some role to play in achieving these
goals. But I object to excessive government
involvement in these professional issues.
Not all government is bad. A democratic
government that balances people's rights,
freedoms, and obligations in a fair way is
good and necessary.
But there is such a thing as 'too much
government'. And you have too much
government, when the government becomes
dictatorial, intrusive, and unresponsive
to people's needs. And that's what I'm
afraid is happening now with government
involvement in regulating health
professionals.
For example, I find it hard to believe
that the healthcare standards are so
different in Ohio from those in Florida
that they need two different licensing
bodies. Why do technologists have to go
through all that bureaucratic hassle to
prove their competence, when they want to
change jobs and move from one state to
another?
|
This is the price we pay for federalism.
IMHO there's too much federalism in the economic sphere. The lack of
economies of scale which you refer to is just crazy, and it's hardly limited
to licensing of professionals.
| Quote: | This is what I call an intrusive government
that is unresponsive to the needs of medical
technologists.
I find it hard to believe that a national
organization like ASCP cannot help
technologists maintain their competence on
its own. Why do state governments have to
add another layer of bureaucracy and
effectively split up the job market for
technologists into small little pieces?
People, including technologists, have the
constitutional right and freedom to move
from one job to another and from one state
to another as they wish. And when state
governments begin to interfere with this
freedom through administrative barriers,
then people like myself are right to complain.
If people were not allowed to drive their car,
when they moved from one state to another.
If they had to prove that they can drive a
car every time they moved from one state to
another. Then how many people do you think
would complain that this is an unreasonable
government interference with their rights
and freedoms?
I think that virtually everybody who wants to
go from one state to another would complain.
The same is true in licensing health professionals.
I can understand that some state governments
know that there is a shortage of healthcare
workers. And I can understand that they want
to prevent movement of health professionals
graduating from their schools to other states.
But I think that setting up these administrative
barriers which interfere with people's freedom
of movement is unethical. And medical
technologists who care about their profession
and about their personal ethics should not be
participating in this.
Technologists who help their state governments
set up these administrative barriers are doing
a disservice to their profession. And they
should be ashamed of themselves.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sinister
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Too much government in healthcare professions
|
|
|
<danthefan73@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124457891.063177.172130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | JEDilworth wrote:
I suppose you would have unlicensed pharmacists; unlicensed registered
nurses, unlicensed physicians. Let them all do their own thing. To hell
with the patients.
I personally don't have a problem with licensure. I just happen to live
in a state that doesn't require it. I think it would be a good thing to
have all the techs on the same footing and on the same page, frankly.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I said
earlier in my posts.
I'm all for accountability, continuing
education, and licensing of health
professionals. And perhaps government
has some role to play in achieving these
goals. But I object to excessive government
involvement in these professional issues.
Not all government is bad. A democratic
government that balances people's rights,
freedoms, and obligations in a fair way is
good and necessary.
But there is such a thing as 'too much
government'. And you have too much
government, when the government becomes
dictatorial, intrusive, and unresponsive
to people's needs. And that's what I'm
afraid is happening now with government
involvement in regulating health
professionals.
For example, I find it hard to believe
that the healthcare standards are so
different in Ohio from those in Florida
that they need two different licensing
bodies. Why do technologists have to go
through all that bureaucratic hassle to
prove their competence, when they want to
change jobs and move from one state to
another?
|
This is the price we pay for federalism.
IMHO there's too much federalism in the economic sphere. The lack of
economies of scale which you refer to is just crazy, and it's hardly limited
to licensing of professionals.
| Quote: | This is what I call an intrusive government
that is unresponsive to the needs of medical
technologists.
I find it hard to believe that a national
organization like ASCP cannot help
technologists maintain their competence on
its own. Why do state governments have to
add another layer of bureaucracy and
effectively split up the job market for
technologists into small little pieces?
People, including technologists, have the
constitutional right and freedom to move
from one job to another and from one state
to another as they wish. And when state
governments begin to interfere with this
freedom through administrative barriers,
then people like myself are right to complain.
If people were not allowed to drive their car,
when they moved from one state to another.
If they had to prove that they can drive a
car every time they moved from one state to
another. Then how many people do you think
would complain that this is an unreasonable
government interference with their rights
and freedoms?
I think that virtually everybody who wants to
go from one state to another would complain.
The same is true in licensing health professionals.
I can understand that some state governments
know that there is a shortage of healthcare
workers. And I can understand that they want
to prevent movement of health professionals
graduating from their schools to other states.
But I think that setting up these administrative
barriers which interfere with people's freedom
of movement is unethical. And medical
technologists who care about their profession
and about their personal ethics should not be
participating in this.
Technologists who help their state governments
set up these administrative barriers are doing
a disservice to their profession. And they
should be ashamed of themselves.
|
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| Back to top |
|
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fresh~horses
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 501
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:50 am Post subject:
Re: Efficacy and safety of statins (CTT meta analysis)
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|
Robert wrote:
| Quote: | "fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1129271088.490847.27220@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Robert wrote:
"fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1129264476.069113.260800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Someone gave this woman my e-mail
address and I just received her query. your inbox as
she is in mine, waiting for an answer. I can't keep her on "draft"
forever. What would you say? She's desperate, been crying.
"My husband passed out cold last Thursday evening after taking lipitor
for 4 days. He has never passed out. In the ED he was experiencing
atrial fibrillation for a few hours, then his heart rhythem
normalized.
The ED doctor and the neurologist thought he may have experienced
vasovagal from drinking cold water. He had numerous cardiac and
neurological tests, all negative. His heart is strong and healthy.
No
evidence of seizure. Next week he is going to an electrophysiologist
at University of Chicago. He's taking coreg (beta blocker) and plavix
for a month to prevent blood clots from the atrial fibrillation. We
appreciate your sharing any experiences that you know about with
regard
to lipitor."
That would be an insult to tell her to see a doctor?
You don't want to insult her so play the role of the doctor Zee. We all
must
make sacrifices in life and she admires you so much and you must get
hundreds of e-mails. You can do it as no one here knows more about
medicine
then any doctor out here.
Does statins give one megalomania? Is that on the list Zee?
You must find it very difficult to tell her to seek some counseling and
professional help when she is depending on you.
What a burden. I would say that you both need help.
Why do you say that Robert? Of course, she and her husband have seen a
doctor. She says right in the post I made that they have. Now she wants
to know if others have had atrial fibrillation after taking statins,
and if there is possibly a connection. {And yes, heart arythmia is
listed on the Lipitor PI). Possibly, she also just wants reassurance
that she is not going to lose her husband.
What should I tell her Robert?
As I mentioned, she needs professional help, clergy, counselors, doctors and
family. She doesn't need someone sitting on her e-mails thinking about what
to say or do. She does not know you and you are not a personal friend as far
as I know.
She is in crisis and needs crisis interventional counseling which you can
not provide. You are not there and you don't have any training in that as
far as I know.
I would also suggest you seek help for yourself in which you insist on
giving out medical advice which is why this lady contacted you in the first
place. You can't tell her if any drug caused that or if her husband is going
to die or not. They are making medical evaluations and decisions that they
will have to make. If the ER doctor or the neurologist need your help then
give them your phone number or contact them.
This is also off topic for sci.med.laboratory. for which you cross posted as
a way of trolling.
I can't make it any more clearer than that.
|
I'm not qualified to give out medical advice like you do Robert.
I'm just a journalist who has done a lot of interviewing and research.
Not qualified to give out medical advice like you do. So, I'll give
this woman a link to the Lipitor product monograph, where yes, it does
say heart irregularities may be associated with Lipitor.
I'll tell her statin use caused rhabdomyolysis, permanent vision
damage, memory loss, transient global amnesia, pancreatitis, gall
bladder disease, helicobactor pylori ulcer, muscle and joint pain ... .
But no AFIB. |
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| Back to top |
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fresh~horses
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 501
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:50 am Post subject:
Re: Efficacy and safety of statins (CTT meta analysis)
|
|
|
John Gentile wrote:
| Quote: | On 2005-10-14 03:56:21 -0400, "fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> said:
Robert wrote:
"fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1129271088.490847.27220@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Robert wrote:
"fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1129264476.069113.260800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Someone gave this woman my e-mail
address and I just received her query. your inbox as
she is in mine, waiting for an answer. I can't keep her on "draft"
forever. What would you say? She's desperate, been crying.
"My husband passed out cold last Thursday evening after taking lipitor
for 4 days. He has never passed out. In the ED he was experiencing
atrial fibrillation for a few hours, then his heart rhythem
normalized.
The ED doctor and the neurologist thought he may have experienced
vasovagal from drinking cold water. He had numerous cardiac and
neurological tests, all negative. His heart is strong and healthy.
No
evidence of seizure. Next week he is going to an electrophysiologist
at University of Chicago. He's taking coreg (beta blocker) and plavix
for a month to prevent blood clots from the atrial fibrillation. We
appreciate your sharing any experiences that you know about with
regard
to lipitor."
That would be an insult to tell her to see a doctor?
You don't want to insult her so play the role of the doctor Zee. We all
must
make sacrifices in life and she admires you so much and you must get
hundreds of e-mails. You can do it as no one here knows more about
medicine
then any doctor out here.
Does statins give one megalomania? Is that on the list Zee?
You must find it very difficult to tell her to seek some counseling and
professional help when she is depending on you.
What a burden. I would say that you both need help.
Why do you say that Robert? Of course, she and her husband have seen a
doctor. She says right in the post I made that they have. Now she wants
to know if others have had atrial fibrillation after taking statins,
and if there is possibly a connection. {And yes, heart arythmia is
listed on the Lipitor PI). Possibly, she also just wants reassurance
that she is not going to lose her husband.
What should I tell her Robert?
As I mentioned, she needs professional help, clergy, counselors, doctors and
family. She doesn't need someone sitting on her e-mails thinking about what
to say or do. She does not know you and you are not a personal friend as far
as I know.
She is in crisis and needs crisis interventional counseling which you can
not provide. You are not there and you don't have any training in that as
far as I know.
I would also suggest you seek help for yourself in which you insist on
giving out medical advice which is why this lady contacted you in the first
place. You can't tell her if any drug caused that or if her husband is going
to die or not. They are making medical evaluations and decisions that they
will have to make. If the ER doctor or the neurologist need your help then
give them your phone number or contact them.
This is also off topic for sci.med.laboratory. for which you cross posted as
a way of trolling.
I can't make it any more clearer than that.
I'm not qualified to give out medical advice like you do Robert.
I'm just a journalist who has done a lot of interviewing and research.
Not qualified to give out medical advice like you do. So, I'll give
this woman a link to the Lipitor product monograph, where yes, it does
say heart irregularities may be associated with Lipitor.
I'll tell her statin use caused me rhabdomyolysis, permanent vision
damage, memory loss, transient global amnesia, pancreatitis, gall
bladder disease, helicobactor pylori ulcer, muscle and joint pain ... .
But no AFIB.
Most of the people on this newsgroup are not qualified to give out
medical advice either. We can tell you a lot about lab testing for
things like cholesterol etc. You need to ask these questions to a
pharmacologist or a cardiac physician.
--
John Gentile
Editor
Rhode Island Apple Group
|
Robert gives medical advice on sci newsgroups so he must be one of
those qualified to do so. I'm sure he wouldn't do it if he wasn't
qualified to do so.
The woman who's post I copied here, who had e-mailed me for info,
indicated her husband had already seen the appropraite professionals.
She just wanted to know what others' experiences of statin adverse
effects were. I told her what side effects I'd had and gave her the
link for the Lipitor product monograph.
May I have the link to your Rhode Island Apple Group newsletter; or...
I love apples. They're my favourite fruit, and my favourite apple is a
russet which I rarely see in Western Canada. But tonight I tasted my
first Honeycrisp. It was very nice. Very crisp, but light, unlike the
crisp but woody gravenstein for example.
: ) |
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John Gentile
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 40
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Efficacy and safety of statins (CTT meta analysis)
|
|
|
On 2005-10-14 22:50:04 -0400, "fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> said:
| Quote: | May I have the link to your Rhode Island Apple Group newsletter; or...
I love apples. They're my favourite fruit, and my favourite apple is a
russet which I rarely see in Western Canada. But tonight I tasted my
first Honeycrisp. It was very nice. Very crisp, but light, unlike the
crisp but woody gravenstein for example.
: )
|
that's the wrong kind of "Apples" Our group is an Apple Macintosh
computer user group.
--
John Gentile
Editor
Rhode Island Apple Group |
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| Back to top |
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fresh~horses
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 501
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject:
OT: apples and not apples
|
|
|
John Gentile wrote:
| Quote: | On 2005-10-14 22:50:04 -0400, "fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> said:
May I have the link to your Rhode Island Apple Group newsletter; or...
I love apples. They're my favourite fruit, and my favourite apple is a
russet which I rarely see in Western Canada. But tonight I tasted my
first Honeycrisp. It was very nice. Very crisp, but light, unlike the
crisp but woody gravenstein for example.
: )
that's the wrong kind of "Apples" Our group is an Apple Macintosh
computer user group.
--
John Gentile
Editor
Rhode Island Apple Group
|
I had a mouthful of that Honeycrisp at the moment I posted. It is truly
a unique tasting apple. Try to find it where you live.
My rig's just an ordinary pc but I'm lucky enough to use a top of the
line MAC occasionally. Some sweet ride.
{I'd still like a look at your magazine.} |
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David Rind
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Reliability of derived-LDL formula
|
|
|
JT626 wrote:
| Quote: | David Rind wrote:
JT626 wrote:
LDL = Total Cholesterol - HDL - (Triglycerides divided by 5)
Is the above an accurate formula?
Is there any other way to measure/compute LDL?
And what is the significance of VLDL ?
Thanks.
For this calculation to work, the triglycerides must be measured on a
fasting sample.
If I were to plot Triglycerides against Time in hours (after a heavy meal),
would I see a linear graph with a negative gradient?
Or an L-shaped curve(like 1/x) ?
Or an S-shaped curve?
How does individual metabolism affect Triglycerides?
Would the rate of decrease in Triglycerides for a 14-year old be sharper
than for a 74-year old?
i.e. would someone with a very slow metabolism need to fast much more than
12-hours to get a meaningful Triglyceride measurement?
Someone here said that "treatment goals are based on LDL levels and the
total cholesterol is meaningless".
So, is LDL being calculated by the labs from a meaningless measurement?
I paid about $100 for my cholesterol test, and I see that the lab report
says "CALC" after the LDL reading.
Is the calculated LDL being reported to doctors, who use that to determine
treatment?
Since my TG was 222, should the calculated LDL not be used to determine
treatment?
|
I don't know the answer to many of the questions above. However:
1) If the LDL was calculated from a nonfasting sample it is falsely low.
2) Total cholesterol isn't "meaningless" but it isn't the number that is
used to guide treatment.
--
David Rind
drind@caregroup.harvard.edu |
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