|
|
| Author |
Message |
Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
|
 Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: |
Jim Chinnis wrote:
Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part:
x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:
I'm very willing to hear your explanation of how this statement
"statins cause cancer" is wrong.
What I don't understand is how you *know* that statins do cause
cancer when the data are at best unclear. The huge randomized
controlled trial called the Heart Protection Study found no such
effect. In it, over 20,000 people tracked for 5 years revealed no
statistically significant difference in cancer rates between the
treatment and control groups. Further, there was no hint of any
trend in increasing cancers in the treatment group as time went
on.
Is there a larger study somewhere that I have missed?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Call me cwazy, but I thought most cancers take many more than 5
years to
develop and/or be recognized?
The fact that there was *any* statistical blip after 5 years is a
flag.
I'd like to see how/if the numbers change with follow up every
five
years for decades.
Not enough info yet to say they don't cause cancer or that they do,
just
that there's some evidence worth continuing to accumulate.
Susan
I agree.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Statins do cause cancer. They did so, incontrovertibly, in lab animals.
|
I'm not a mouse.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:32 am Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
Listener likes to play word games. I gave him one.
zee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 1:00 am Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
Jim Chinnis wrote:
| Quote: | "outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:
Jim Chinnis wrote:
Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part:
x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:
I'm very willing to hear your explanation of how this statement
"statins cause cancer" is wrong.
What I don't understand is how you *know* that statins do cause
cancer when the data are at best unclear. The huge randomized
controlled trial called the Heart Protection Study found no
such
effect. In it, over 20,000 people tracked for 5 years revealed
no
statistically significant difference in cancer rates between
the
treatment and control groups. Further, there was no hint of any
trend in increasing cancers in the treatment group as time went
on.
Is there a larger study somewhere that I have missed?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Call me cwazy, but I thought most cancers take many more than 5
years to
develop and/or be recognized?
The fact that there was *any* statistical blip after 5 years is a
flag.
I'd like to see how/if the numbers change with follow up every
five
years for decades.
Not enough info yet to say they don't cause cancer or that they
do,
just
that there's some evidence worth continuing to accumulate.
Susan
I agree.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Statins do cause cancer. They did so, incontrovertibly, in lab
animals.
I'm not a mouse.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
|
As you know there is no test for cancer that says
definitively...ahhhaaa! This is statin caused cancer. And Pfizer is
unlikely to do any "obervational" studies that will hit the press to
the tune of a million $ or so when the results are bad (I refer you to
Richard Smiths PLoS article which I posted yesterday or so).
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. {Another word game).
Zee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:07 am Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in news:3f4th8F60gosU1@individual.net:
| Quote: | x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:
I'm very willing to hear your explanation of how this statement
"statins cause cancer" is wrong.
What I don't understand is how you *know* that statins do cause
cancer when the data are at best unclear. The huge randomized
controlled trial called the Heart Protection Study found no such
effect. In it, over 20,000 people tracked for 5 years revealed no
statistically significant difference in cancer rates between the
treatment and control groups. Further, there was no hint of any
trend in increasing cancers in the treatment group as time went
on.
Is there a larger study somewhere that I have missed?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Call me cwazy, but I thought most cancers take many more than 5 years to
develop and/or be recognized?
The fact that there was *any* statistical blip after 5 years is a flag.
I'd like to see how/if the numbers change with follow up every five
years for decades.
Not enough info yet to say they don't cause cancer or that they do, just
that there's some evidence worth continuing to accumulate.
Susan
|
You're cwazy.
Let's see, I'm gonna start a thread called "Pantethine causes cancer" and when asked to support that I'm
obfuscate, change the subject, say we don't have enought studies yet or ignore. That OK with you?
Talk is cheap.
L. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:20 am Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
elgoog wrote:
| Quote: | outrider wrote:
elgoog wrote:
Another article (excerpt only) followed by comments:
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Statin Drugs Linked to Reduced Cancer Risk
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/105/107999.htm
May 16, 2005 (Orlando, Fla.) -- Evidence continues to mount that
cholesterol-lowering drugs called statins can reduce the risk of
a
variety of cancers. New research shows that the popular statin
drugs
may slash a person's chance of developing breast,breast,
prostate,
and
lung tumors in half.
This is preventive use. I think we must wait for *evidence* Elgoog.
Not
the hype and hope; the evidence. As it stands, there is *evidence*
of
increased cancers in statin trials.
Three new studies show that "statins prevent healthy cells from
transforming into cancerous cells," says researcher Ruby Kochhar,
MD,
a
medical oncologist at the Naval Medical Center in Portsmouth, Va.
"There was a protective effect in every type of cancer studied."
The new studies were presented at the annual meeting of the
American
Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO).
...
The studies follow on the heels of other research showing that
statin
use is associated with a reduced risk of a variety of cancers,
including melanoma. Just last month, researchers reported that
the
drugs cut the risk of advanced prostate cancer in half.cut the
risk
of
advanced prostate cancer in half.
Melanoma is one of the cancers which showed up first in statin
trials:
Evidence that statin treatment causes cancer.
http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
While it's still too soon to recommend that people at high risk
for
cancer start taking statins for their antitumor properties, the
new
research may give statins an edge over other cholesterol-lowering
drugs, researchers say.
The marketing department (which was the origin of this story) knows
merely raising the spector of hope will be enough.
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Maybe the studies are no good, but we shouldn't merely brush them
aside
either. Although, additional benefits of statins are being
touted,
there is a caution that it is still too early to recommend statin
treatment for patients at risk for cancer. Nonetheless, clearly
the
effect will be to push statins in favor of other cholesterol
lowering
drugs and probably in favor of diet and exercise.
Another study shows that diet and exercise combats cancer
recurrence:
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
And now for a word about *the cure*:
The obvious, and what is being buried by the cancer industry, is
that
there is NO cure for cancer, only remission. Cut, slash and burn;
the
same solutions offered 50 years ago. Billions of dollars for the
*cure*
that isn't.
Less than 5 per cent of cancer funding is used for prevention. The
toxins which cause cancers are produced by the same pharmaceuctical
companies which then profit by producing the 'cure'. Time to look
at
prevention. Reduction of cause...
Statins cause cancer
Zee
New Treatments Wow Cancer
Doctorshttp://my.webmd.com/content/Article/106/108089.htm
...
Doctors tell WebMD they are also excited about news of lifestyle
interventions that can help prevent cancers and their return.
"Patients
diagnosed with cancer often ask what they can do," Mayer says.
"At
this
meeting, we began to hear the options."
One study shows that menopausal breast cancer survivors who cut
down
on
fats in their diet were able to reduce their risk of tumor
recurrence.menopausal breast cancer survivors who cut down on
fats
in
their diet were able to reduce their risk of tumor recurrence.
In the study of more than 2,400 women with early breast cancer,
those
who adopted a low-fat diet were one-fourth less likely to have
their
cancer return within five years than those who continued to eat
their
typical foods.
Other researchers report that people treated for colon cancer
were
about half as likely to die or have their tumors come back if
they
engage in regular, moderate-intensity physical activity.people
treated
for colon cancer were about half as likely to die or have their
tumors
come back if they engage in regular, moderate-intensity physical
activity.
In the study, colon cancer survivors who walked at a moderate
pace
an
hour a day, six days a week, were 49% less likely to have a
recurrence
or die compared with those who rarely exercised.
...
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Here's what I make of the whole matter. There is a lot of spin placed
on studies to the point that the information we hear is so distorted
that it is unbelievable.
Anecdotal evidence is used to spin alternative medicine, meanwhile
purportedly scientific studies are orchestrated to provide evidence
that when closely examined falls apart. Medical conferences that
impart
information have actually turned into propaganda machines.
The truth is out there, but it is up to us to gather the information
and perform our own evaluations as there are no organizations worthy
of
our trust without verification. Science and capitalism don't mix
well.
In fact, science doesn't mix well with any economic, political or
theological system. The communists perverted science to their own
needs, the theists and atheists bend science to achieve their own
political ambitions.
It is only through understanding the imperfections of our system, and
the risks of both treatment and non-treatment that we can take the
best
care of ourselves.
|
"This study was published as an abstract and presented at a conference
either as an oral or poster presentation. These data and conclusions
should be considered to be preliminary as they have not yet been
reviewed and published in a peer-reviewed publication." MedPage Today
....very few "studies" presented this way are ever published in peer
reviewed medical journals.
All that money for all that marketing, tagged onto the cost of all our
largely unnecessary lifestyle medications. Real science and real need
goes unmet, while eveyone is checking their stock options.
Zee |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
listener wrote:
| Quote: | Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in
news:3f4th8F60gosU1@individual.net:
x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:
I'm very willing to hear your explanation of how this statement
"statins cause cancer" is wrong.
What I don't understand is how you *know* that statins do cause
cancer when the data are at best unclear. The huge randomized
controlled trial called the Heart Protection Study found no such
effect. In it, over 20,000 people tracked for 5 years revealed no
statistically significant difference in cancer rates between the
treatment and control groups. Further, there was no hint of any
trend in increasing cancers in the treatment group as time went
on.
Is there a larger study somewhere that I have missed?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Call me cwazy, but I thought most cancers take many more than 5
years to
develop and/or be recognized?
The fact that there was *any* statistical blip after 5 years is a
flag.
I'd like to see how/if the numbers change with follow up every
five
years for decades.
Not enough info yet to say they don't cause cancer or that they do,
just
that there's some evidence worth continuing to accumulate.
Susan
You're cwazy.
Let's see, I'm gonna start a thread called "Pantethine causes cancer"
and when asked to support that I'm
obfuscate, change the subject, say we don't have enought studies yet
or ignore. That OK with you?
Talk is cheap.
L.
|
StockPickReport: Buy Ratings for Pfizer...
Thursday May 19, 2005, 11:00 pm
STOCKPICKREPORT RATINGS:
Pfizer Inc. (NYSE:PFE) - WEAK BUY
http://www.stockpickreport.com/abrating.php?sym=PFE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1218
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
| Quote: | The most famous observational study stunningly dismissed after years
of |
damage and death had occurred was the HRT study which said hormone
replacement therapy (HRT) PROTECTED women against osteoporosis (no
evidence) heart disease (no evidence) and certain cancers (no
evidence). In fact, once SCIENCE NOT MARKETING entered the picture,
these "facts" were disproved and in a couple of instances, the very
opposite proved to be true. <<
The very opposite proved to be true for heart disease and stroke indeed
(at least for estrogen alone and estrogen progestin combos). And HRT
did cause breast cancer (but that had been suspected). However, HRT
*does* slow osteoporosis. That much did turn out to be fact. Randomized
prospective studies sometimes falsify our notions, but rarely ALL of
them.
SBH |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
|
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins help prevent breast cancer, study finds
|
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
| Quote: | The very opposite proved to be true for heart disease and stroke indeed
(at least for estrogen alone and estrogen progestin combos). And HRT
did cause breast cancer (but that had been suspected). However, HRT
*does* slow osteoporosis. That much did turn out to be fact. Randomized
prospective studies sometimes falsify our notions, but rarely ALL of
them.
SBH
|
Only slows osteoporosis for as long as one stays on it. Rapid bone loss
begins once it's discontinued. Not a good rx to stay on lifelong.
Susan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Google
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
The time now is Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:16 pm | All times are GMT
|
|
Israel Perry Attorney | Macs | Credit Card | Mortgage Calculator | Houses for Sale
|
|
Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
|
|
Other DeniX Solutions sites:
electronics forum,
Science forum
Unix/Linux blog
Unix/Linux documentation
Unix/Linux forums
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Forum index
»
Medicine forums
»
cardiology
