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anon
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 3:17 am Post subject:
Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic plaque?
Multiple choice:
Nattokinase
Serrapeptase
Papain
Bromelain
Urokinase
Papain
Trypsin
Chymotrypsin
Pancreatin |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
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outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
| Quote: | anon wrote:
Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
plaque?
Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
|
I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a friend
who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been used in
Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for years, and is by
prescription. Could it be that this is just not something yet accepted
in north America?
Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what you
say?
I'm very concerned for him. |
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Don Kirkman
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 726
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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It seems to me I heard somewhere that outrider wrote in article
<1116176162.592590.104370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
| Quote: | Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
anon wrote:
Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
plaque?
Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a friend
who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been used in
Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for years, and is by
prescription. Could it be that this is just not something yet accepted
in north America?
Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what you
say?
I'm very concerned for him.
|
Zee, if you do a Google search on "proteolytic enzyme + athersclerosis"
you will find several links; most seem to be from the alternative
medicine folks. Bromelain in particular is mentioned.
--
System:
700Mhz PIII 512MB RAM Win XP Pro SP2RC2
256Mb NVIDIA GeForce 5200 - 1024 x 768 True Color
AVG 7.0 Anti-virus
Kerio Personal Firewall |
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outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 7:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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Don Kirkman wrote:
| Quote: | It seems to me I heard somewhere that outrider wrote in article
1116176162.592590.104370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
anon wrote:
Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
plaque?
Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a friend
who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been used in
Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for years, and is
by
prescription. Could it be that this is just not something yet
accepted
in north America?
Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what
you
say?
I'm very concerned for him.
Zee, if you do a Google search on "proteolytic enzyme +
athersclerosis"
you will find several links; most seem to be from the alternative
medicine folks. Bromelain in particular is mentioned.
--
|
| Quote: | System:
700Mhz PIII 512MB RAM Win XP Pro SP2RC2
256Mb NVIDIA GeForce 5200 - 1024 x 768 True Color
AVG 7.0 Anti-virus
Kerio Personal Firewall
|
Don that's all I have found too. Some tentative references on PubMed;
for sinus inflammation, and one highly entertaining study (at least to
me at 3 a.m.) where the people on serrapeptase and the people on
placebo were evaluated by a physician who came in after it was all over
not knowing who took what.
Thank you.
I can now tell him another system dude corroborates my research.
Zee |
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anon
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:42 am Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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outrider on 5/15/05 4:49 PM at outrider@despammed.com in
1116193780.986071.261610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Don Kirkman wrote:
It seems to me I heard somewhere that outrider wrote in article
1116176162.592590.104370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
anon wrote:
Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
plaque?
Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a friend
who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been used in
Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for years, and is
by
prescription. Could it be that this is just not something yet
accepted
in north America?
Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what
you
say?
I'm very concerned for him.
Zee, if you do a Google search on "proteolytic enzyme +
athersclerosis"
you will find several links; most seem to be from the alternative
medicine folks. Bromelain in particular is mentioned.
--
System:
700Mhz PIII 512MB RAM Win XP Pro SP2RC2
256Mb NVIDIA GeForce 5200 - 1024 x 768 True Color
AVG 7.0 Anti-virus
Kerio Personal Firewall
Don that's all I have found too. Some tentative references on PubMed;
for sinus inflammation, and one highly entertaining study (at least to
me at 3 a.m.) where the people on serrapeptase and the people on
placebo were evaluated by a physician who came in after it was all over
not knowing who took what.
Thank you.
I can now tell him another system dude corroborates my research.
Zee
|
Here are a few just on Nattokinase. You can find many similar studies on the
others by learning to search PubMed.
I'm disappointed, I was hoping people here would be familiar with this
subject...
Plant Foods Hum Nutr. 1995 Jan;47(1):39-47.
Anti-hypertensive substances in fermented soybean, natto.
Okamoto A, Hanagata H, Kawamura Y, Yanagida F.
Department of Brewing and Fermentation, Tokyo University of Agriculture,
Japan.
Natto is a traditional Japanese fermented food made by fermenting boiled soy
beans with Bacillus natto. Its contents of inhibitors against the
angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE, EC3.4.15.1) were investigated.
Relatively strong inhibitory activity (IC50: 0.4 mg/ml, 11.8 inhibition
units/g natto) was detected in natto extracts and the inhibitory activity
observed in the viscous fraction was more potent than in the bean extract.
Two groups of inhibitors in the viscous material, high and low molecular
weight inhibitors, were resolved by dialysis test. The inhibitor of high
molecular weight was a protein with low IC50 value (0.12 mg/ml). The two
types of low molecular weight inhibitors were detected in ethanol extracts
(IC50: 0.53 mg/ml and 0.95 mg/ml) and they were found to be stable over a
wide range of pH and temperature up to 100 degrees C. They were different in
the mode of ACE inhibition. One is competitive, and the other noncompetitive
against the hydrolysis of Bz-Gly-His-Leu by ACE.
PMID: 7784396
Biosci Biotechnol Biochem. 1995 Jun;59(6):1147-9.
Angiotensin I converting enzyme inhibitory activities of various fermented
foods.
Okamoto A, Hanagata H, Matsumoto E, Kawamura Y, Koizumi Y, Yanagida F.
Department of Brewing and Fermentation, Tokyo University of Agriculture,
Japan.
Angiotensin I converting enzyme (ACE, E.C. 3.4.15.1) inhibitory activity
were measured with 11 kinds (31 items) of fermented foods. Strong inhibitory
activity was detected in soy sauce, fish sauce, natto, nyufu, and cheese,
but not in mirin, sake, or vinegar.
PMID: 7613003
Jpn Heart J. 1978 Jul;19(4):617.
Relationship between natto-added feed and blood pressure of SHR: experiment
in feeding of propagation type natto Bacilli.
Hayashi U, Nagao K.
PMID: 104065
Jpn Heart J. 1976 May;17(3):343-4.
Relationship between food containing "Natto" (fermented soybeans) and the
blood pressure of SHR.
Hayashi U, Nagao K, Tosa Y, Yoshioka Y.
PMID: 985891
J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Jun 5;50(12):3592-6.
Inhibitory effect of natto, a kind of fermented soybeans, on LDL oxidation
in vitro.
Iwai K, Nakaya N, Kawasaki Y, Matsue H.
Biotechnology Section, Aomori Advanced Industrial Technology Center, 4-11-6,
Daini-tonyamachi, Aomori 030-0113, Japan. iwai@aomori-tech.go.jp
The oxygen radical scavenging activity of natto (fermented soybeans) and its
inhibitory effect on the oxidation of rat plasma low-density lipoprotein
(LDL) in vitro were investigated to evaluate the usefulness of the
antioxidant properties of natto, which has been shown to have antioxidant
activity. Natto was separated into three water-soluble fractions:
high-molecular-weight viscous substance (HMWVS; Mw > 100 000),
low-molecular-weight viscous substance (LMWVS; Mw < 100 000), and soybean
water extract (SWE). LMWVS had the strongest radical scavenging activity for
hydroxyl and superoxide anion radicals, as assessed by electron spin
resonance. The increase of conjugated dienes in LDL oxidized by copper and
an azo pigment was depressed by the addition of LMWVS and SWE. These results
demonstrate that natto fractions have inhibitory effects on LDL oxidation as
a result of their radical scavenging activity.
PMID: 12033834
J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Jun 5;50(12):3597-601.
Antioxidative functions of natto, a kind of fermented soybeans: effect on
LDL oxidation and lipid metabolism in cholesterol-fed rats.
Iwai K, Nakaya N, Kawasaki Y, Matsue H.
Biotechnology Section, Aomori Advanced Industrial Technology Center, 4-11-6,
Daini-tonyamachi, Aomori 030-0113, Japan.
Natto water-soluble fractions, low-molecular-weight viscous substance, and
soybean water extract, which had an inhibitory effect on the oxidation of
low-density lipoproteins (LDL) in vitro, were fed to rats for 3 weeks. These
fractions had no influence on the growth of rats, which were fed a basal
diet containing 1% cholesterol, but lowered plasma triglyceride and total
cholesterol. Inhibition of copper-oxidation of plasma and LDL ex vivo, and a
reduction in lipid peroxidation in liver and aorta in vivo, were also
observed. The antioxidant enzymes were not induced in rats fed natto
fraction diets. These results demonstrate that ingestion of the natto
fractions led to inhibition of LDL oxidation, and that the fractions perform
direct antioxidant action in the body. It is suggested that natto fractions
might help to prevent arteriosclerosis, as they appear to reduce lipid
peroxidation and improve lipid metabolism.
PMID: 12033835
Acta Haematol. 1990;84(3):139-43.
Enhancement of the fibrinolytic activity in plasma by oral administration of
nattokinase.
Sumi H, Hamada H, Nakanishi K, Hiratani H.
Department of Physiology, Miyazaki Medical College, Japan.
The existence of a potent fibrinolytic enzyme (nattokinase, NK) in the
traditional fermented food called 'natto', was reported by us previously. It
was confirmed that oral administration of NK (or natto) produced a mild and
frequent enhancement of the fibrinolytic activity in the plasma, as
indicated by the fibrinolytic parameters, and the production of tissue
plasminogen activator. NK capsules were also administered orally to dogs
with experimentally induced thrombosis, and lysis of the thrombi was
observed by angiography. The results obtained suggest that NK represents a
possible drug for use not only in the treatment of embolism but also in the
prevention of the disease, since NK has a proven safety and can be
massproduced.
PMID: 2123064
Life Sci. 2003 Jul 25;73(10):1289-98.
Dietary supplementation of fermented soybean, natto, suppresses intimal
thickening and modulates the lysis of mural thrombi after endothelial injury
in rat femoral artery.
Suzuki Y, Kondo K, Matsumoto Y, Zhao BQ, Otsuguro K, Maeda T, Tsukamoto Y,
Urano T, Umemura K.
Department of Pharmacology, Hamamatsu University School of Medicine, 1-20-1
Handayama, Hamamatsu City, Shizuoka 431-3192, Japan. yapplel@hama-med.ac.jp
We have previously demonstrated that natto-extracts containing nattokinase
(NK) inactivates plasminogen activator inhibitor type 1 and then potentiates
fibrinolytic activity. In the present study, we investigated the effects of
dietary supplementation with natto-extracts on neointima formation and on
thrombolysis at the site of endothelial injury. Endothelial damage in the
rat femoral artery was induced by intravenous injection of rose bengal
followed by focal irradiation by transluminal green light. Dietary
natto-extracts supplementation containing NK of 50 or 100 CU/body was
started 3 weeks before endothelial injury and then continued for another 3
weeks. Intimal thickening in animals given supplementation was significantly
(P<0.01) suppressed compared with controls and the intima/media ratio in
animals with 50 and 100 CU/body NK and control group was 0.09 +/- 0.03, 0.09
+/- 0.06 and 0.16 +/- 0.12, respectively. Although femoral arteries were
reopened both in control animals and those treated with NK within 8 hours
after endothelial injury, mural thrombi were histologically observed at the
site of endothelial injury. In the control group, the center of vessel lumen
was reopened and mural thrombi were attached on the surface of vessel walls.
In contrast, in NK-treated groups, thrombi near the vessel wall showed lysis
and most of them detached from the surface of vessel walls. In conclusion,
dietary natto-extracts supplementation suppressed intimal thickening
produced by endothelial injury in rat femoral artery. These effects may
partially be attributable to NK, which showed enhanced thrombolysis near the
vessel wall.
PMID: 12850244
Nutrition. 2003 Mar;19(3):261-4.
Dietary supplementation with fermented soybeans suppresses intimal
thickening.
Suzuki Y, Kondo K, Ichise H, Tsukamoto Y, Urano T, Umemura K.
Department of Pharmacology, Hamamatsu University School of Medicine,
Shizuoka, Japan. yapplel@hama-med.ac.jp
Although soy foods have been consumed for more than 1000 y, it is only in
the past 20 y that they have made inroads into Western diets. We
investigated the effect of dietary supplementation with natto extracts
produced from fermented soybeans on intimal thickening of arteries after
vessel endothelial denudation. Natto extracts include nattokinase, a potent
fibrinolytic enzyme having four times greater fibrinolytic activity than
plasmin. Intimal thickening was induced in the femoral arteries by
intravenous infusion of rose bengal followed by focal irradiation with a
transluminal green light. Dietary natto extract supplementation was started
3 wk before endothelial injury and continued for another 3 wk after. In ex
vivo studies, euglobulin clot lysis times were measured 3 wk after the
initial supplementation. Neointima formation and thickening were also
initiated successfully. The intima media ratio 3 wk after endothelial injury
was 0.15 +/- 0.03 in the control group. Dietary natto extract
supplementation suppressed intimal thickening (0.06 +/- 0.01; P < 0.05)
compared with the control group. Natto extracts shortened euglobulin clot
lysis time, suggesting that their thrombolytic activities were enhanced.
These findings suggest that natto extracts, because of their thrombolytic
activity, suppress intimal thickening after vascular injury as a result of
the inhibition of mural thrombi formation.
PMID: 12620531
Biol Pharm Bull. 1995 Oct;18(10):1387-91.
Thrombolytic effect of nattokinase on a chemically induced thrombosis model
in rat.
Fujita M, Hong K, Ito Y, Fujii R, Kariya K, Nishimuro S.
Biotechnology Research Laboratories, JCR Pharmaceuticals Co., Ltd., Kobe,
Japan.
Nattokinase is a new fibrinolytic enzyme which cleaves directly cross-linked
fibrin in vitro. In this study, we investigated the thrombolytic effect of
nattokinase on a thrombus in the common carotid artery of rat in which the
endothelial cells of the vessel wall were injured by acetic acid. When a
section of occluded vessel was stained for CD61 antigen by
immunofluorescence utilizing a monoclonal antibody, the antigen was
localized around the surface of the occluded blood vessels. This result
suggests that the occlusive thrombosis was caused by platelet aggregation.
In addition, thrombolysis with urokinase (UK; 50000 IU/kg, i.v.) or tissue
plasminogen activator (tPA; 13300 IU/kg, i.v.) in our model was observed to
restore the blood flow over a 60 min monitoring period. The results indicate
that our chemically induced model is useful for screening and evaluating a
thrombolytic agent. We evaluated the thrombolytic activity of nattokinase
using this model and compared it with fibrino(geno)lytic enzyme, plasmin or
elastase. On a molar basis, the recovery of the arterial blood flow with
nattokinase, plasmin and elastase were 62.0 +/- 5.3%, 15.8 +/- 0.7% and 0%,
respectively. The results indicate that the thrombolytic activity of
nattokinase is stronger than that of plasmin or elastase in vivo.
PMID: 8593442
Can J Microbiol. 2001 Oct;47(10):935-42.
Binding activity of natto (a fermented food) and Bacillus natto isolates to
mutagenic-carcinogenic heterocyclic amines.
Rajendran R, Ohta Y.
Laboratory for Microbial Biochemistry, Faculty of Applied Biological
Sciences, Hiroshima University, Higashi-Hiroshima, Japan.
The fermented food, whole meal Natto, viscous polymeric material from Natto,
Natto bean, cooked soya bean, and 28 bacterial isolates from Natto were
studied for their binding capacity to foodborne mutagenic-carcinogenic
heterocyclic amines. The mutagenic heterocyclic amines used were Trp-P-1
(3-amino-1,4-dimethyl-5H-pyrido(4,3-b)indole); Trp-P-2
(3-amino-1-methyl-5H-pyrido(4,3-b)indole); Glu-P-1
(2-amino-6-methyldipyrido(1,2-a:3'2'-d)imidazole); PhIP
(2-amino-1-methyl-6-phenylimidazo(4,5-b)pyridine); IQ
(2-amino-3-methylimidazo(4,5-f)quinoline); MeIQ
(2-amino-3,4-dimethylimidazo(4,5-f)quinoxaline); MeIQx
(2-amino-3,8-dimethylimidazo(4,5-f)quinoxaline); and MeAalphaC
(2-amino-3-methyl-9H-pyrido(2,3)indole). The lyophilized Natto and other
fractions of Natto exhibited high binding activity towards Trp-P-1, Trp-P-2,
PhIP, and MeAalphaC, while Glu-P-1, IQ, and MeIQ were not effectively bound.
The binding capacity of bacterial isolates (Bacillus natto) were
isolate-mutagen dependent. Heat treated lyophilized cells, cell wall, and
cytoplasmic contents of the bacterial isolate with the highest binding
capacity were analyzed for their ability to bind different heterocyclic
amines. The results indicate the importance of the cell wall in binding to
heterocyclic amines, whereas the cytoplasmic contents were less effective.
Heat-treated cells were not much different from that of viable cells in
their binding. The impact of different factors, such as pH, incubation time,
metal ions, different concentrations of sodium chloride and alcohol, various
enzymes, and acetylation of mutagens on binding of Trp-P-1 and IQ, were
discussed. The significance of the present results is also discussed from
the viewpoint that Natto, a fermented food, is able to scavenge dietary
mutagenic heterocyclic amines through binding.
PMID: 11718547
Experientia. 1987 Oct 15;43(10):1110-1.
A novel fibrinolytic enzyme (nattokinase) in the vegetable cheese Natto; a
typical and popular soybean food in the Japanese diet.
Sumi H, Hamada H, Tsushima H, Mihara H, Muraki H.
Department of Physiology, Miyazaki Medical College, Japan.
A strong fibrinolytic activity was demonstrated in the vegetable cheese
Natto, which is a typical soybean food eaten in Japan. The average activity
was calculated at about 40 CU (plasmin units)/g wet weight. This novel
fibrinolytic enzyme, named nattokinase, was easily extracted with saline.
The mol. wt and pI were about 20,000 and 8.6, respectively. Nattokinase not
only digested fibrin but also the plasmin substrate H-D-Val-Leu-Lys-pNA
(S-2251), which was more sensitive to the enzyme than other substrates
tried. Diisopropyl fluorophosphate and
2,2,2-trichloro-1-hydroxyethyl-o,o-dimethylphosphate strongly inhibited this
fibrinolytic enzyme.
PMID: 3478223 |
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elgoog
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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outrider wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
anon wrote:
Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
plaque?
Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a friend
who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been used in
Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for years, and is
by
prescription. Could it be that this is just not something yet
accepted
in north America?
Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what
you
say?
I'm very concerned for him.
|
I don't find anything on serrapeptase studies showing it to be
effective for atherosclerotic plaque - it seems to me that if it truly
were a recognized treatment in Europe, there would be something. I
think it is simply an alternative medicine approach with no real
scientific study behind it.
It reminds me of hawthorn berry that is supposed to be a heart tonic -
been sold as such and used as such for centuries, but no real study has
either debunked it or confirmed it. Still, hawthorn berry is rich in
flavonoids (those powerful anti-oxidants), so there may be some
healthful effects. The use of hawthorn berry has been so predominant
that it gets a nod in the medical books, despite no proofs. Maybe, it's
like chicken soup.
My pineapple, turmeric, ginger smoothies are high in bromelain though -
but not intended to treat atherosclerosis. Bromelain, turmeric and
ginger are supposed to be anti-inflammatories, still the shake isn't
meant to treat anything in particular. |
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outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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elgoog wrote:
| Quote: | outrider wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
anon wrote:
Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
plaque?
Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a
friend
who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been used in
Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for years, and
is
by
prescription. Could it be that this is just not something yet
accepted
in north America?
Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what
you
say?
I'm very concerned for him.
I don't find anything on serrapeptase studies showing it to be
effective for atherosclerotic plaque - it seems to me that if it
truly
were a recognized treatment in Europe, there would be something. I
think it is simply an alternative medicine approach with no real
scientific study behind it.
|
I agree Elgood but wanted to know if there might be something I missed.
It looks like it's one of the chelation agents. Yikes.
| Quote: |
It reminds me of hawthorn berry that is supposed to be a heart tonic
-
been sold as such and used as such for centuries, but no real study
has
either debunked it or confirmed it. Still, hawthorn berry is rich in
flavonoids (those powerful anti-oxidants), so there may be some
healthful effects. The use of hawthorn berry has been so predominant
that it gets a nod in the medical books, despite no proofs. Maybe,
it's
like chicken soup.
|
I have read about black cherris (and their juice easily found in
organic food stores) being useful for gout. It is delicious, but I
discount these uses until proven and some can be dangerous. Here we
caution children not to eat the stone in Saskatoon berries. I think
Saskatoon is related to the hawthorn. No?
| Quote: |
My pineapple, turmeric, ginger smoothies are high in bromelain though
-
but not intended to treat atherosclerosis. Bromelain, turmeric and
ginger are supposed to be anti-inflammatories, still the shake isn't
meant to treat anything in particular.
|
This is fantastic! Thank you for posting it. Everyone should run out
and buy the ingredients, power up the blender and enjoy. The best new
thing I've tasted in ages.
Well except of course for dark-chocolate coated almonds.
Zee |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:56 am Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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elgoog wrote:
:: It reminds me of hawthorn berry that is supposed to be a heart tonic
:: - been sold as such and used as such for centuries, but no real
:: study has either debunked it or confirmed it. Still, hawthorn berry
:: is rich in flavonoids (those powerful anti-oxidants), so there may
:: be some healthful effects. The use of hawthorn berry has been so
:: predominant that it gets a nod in the medical books, despite no
:: proofs. Maybe, it's like chicken soup.
In Germany hawthorn is accepted for the treatment of mild congestive heart
failure. It has also a slight lowering effect to blood pressure. Some new
studies: Habs M. Prospective, comparative cohort studies and their
contribution to the benefit assessments of therapeutic options: heart
failure treatment with and without Hawthorn special extract WS 1442. Forsch
Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd. 2004 Aug;11 Suppl 1:36-9. Veveris M, Koch
E, Chatterjee SS. Crataegus special extract WS 1442 improves cardiac
function and reduces infarct size in a rat model of prolonged coronary
ischemia and reperfusion. Life Sci. 2004 Feb. Chang WT, Dao J, Shao ZH.
Hawthorn: potential roles in cardiovascular disease. Am J Chin Med.
2005;33(1):1-10. "Hawthorn (Crataegus) may play a role in the prevention and
treatment of cardiovascular diseases such as hypertension, hyperlipidemia,
and in particular, congestive heart failure. Evidence is accumulating that
hawthorn may induce anti-ischemia/reperfusion-injury, anti-arrhythmic,
hypolipidemic and hypotensive effects."
:: My pineapple, turmeric, ginger smoothies are high in bromelain
:: though - but not intended to treat atherosclerosis. Bromelain,
:: turmeric and ginger are supposed to be anti-inflammatories, still
:: the shake isn't meant to treat anything in particular.
Atheroschlerosis is nowadays widely recognised to be an condition with low
grade inflammation. Hence the discussion of the importance of CRP as the
risk marker of heart disease. Some diets and foods are efficient in reducing
inflammation and CRP. This is a way anti-inflammatory foods and herbs might
be useful in the dietary prevention and treatment of atherosclerosis.
--
Juhana |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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anon wrote:
:: outrider on 5/15/05 4:49 PM at outrider@despammed.com in
:: 1116193780.986071.261610@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com wrote:
::
:::
::: Don Kirkman wrote:
:::: It seems to me I heard somewhere that outrider wrote in article
:::: <1116176162.592590.104370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
::::
::::: Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
:::::: anon wrote:
::::
::::::: Which proteolytic enzyme is best for treating atherosclerotic
::::::: plaque?
::::
:::::: Proteolytic enzymes are not used to treat atherosclerosis.
::::
::::: I am trying to find more information on this Andrew. I have a
::::: friend who is using this. He maintains that serrapeptase has been
::::: used in Europe as a clot buster for atherosclerotic plaque for
::::: years, and is by prescription.
::::: Could it be that this is just not something yet accepted
::::: in north America?
::::
::::: Do you have any more to refute this claim, or to substantiate what
::::: you
::::: say?
::::
::::: I'm very concerned for him.
::::
:::: Zee, if you do a Google search on "proteolytic enzyme +
:::: athersclerosis"
:::: you will find several links; most seem to be from the alternative
:::: medicine folks. Bromelain in particular is mentioned.
:::
::: Don that's all I have found too. Some tentative references on
::: PubMed; for sinus inflammation, and one highly entertaining study
::: (at least to me at 3 a.m.) where the people on serrapeptase and the
::: people on placebo were evaluated by a physician who came in after
::: it was all over not knowing who took what.
:: Here are a few just on Nattokinase. You can find many similar
:: studies on the others by learning to search PubMed.
::
:: I'm disappointed, I was hoping people here would be familiar with
:: this subject...
I have seen these studies of natto. I think that more holistic approach is
needed to reduce inflammation than finding one singular food: using olive
oil as cooking oil, cutting refined grains, reducing omega-6 oils, cutting
transfats, cutting fast foods, using turmeric and fish oils daily, weight
reduction and exercise (both reduce CRP), bromelain...
--
Juhana |
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elgoog
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 412
|
| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:30 am Post subject:
Re: Best Proteolytic Enzyme for Plaque?
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|
Juhana Harju wrote:
| Quote: | elgoog wrote:
:: It reminds me of hawthorn berry that is supposed to be a heart
tonic
:: - been sold as such and used as such for centuries, but no real
:: study has either debunked it or confirmed it. Still, hawthorn
berry
:: is rich in flavonoids (those powerful anti-oxidants), so there may
:: be some healthful effects. The use of hawthorn berry has been so
:: predominant that it gets a nod in the medical books, despite no
:: proofs. Maybe, it's like chicken soup.
In Germany hawthorn is accepted for the treatment of mild congestive
heart
failure. It has also a slight lowering effect to blood pressure. Some
new
studies: Habs M. Prospective, comparative cohort studies and their
contribution to the benefit assessments of therapeutic options: heart
failure treatment with and without Hawthorn special extract WS 1442.
Forsch
Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd. 2004 Aug;11 Suppl 1:36-9. Veveris
M, Koch
E, Chatterjee SS. Crataegus special extract WS 1442 improves cardiac
function and reduces infarct size in a rat model of prolonged
coronary
ischemia and reperfusion. Life Sci. 2004 Feb. Chang WT, Dao J, Shao
ZH.
Hawthorn: potential roles in cardiovascular disease. Am J Chin Med.
2005;33(1):1-10. "Hawthorn (Crataegus) may play a role in the
prevention and
treatment of cardiovascular diseases such as hypertension,
hyperlipidemia,
and in particular, congestive heart failure. Evidence is accumulating
that
hawthorn may induce anti-ischemia/reperfusion-injury,
anti-arrhythmic,
hypolipidemic and hypotensive effects."
:: My pineapple, turmeric, ginger smoothies are high in bromelain
:: though - but not intended to treat atherosclerosis. Bromelain,
:: turmeric and ginger are supposed to be anti-inflammatories, still
:: the shake isn't meant to treat anything in particular.
Atheroschlerosis is nowadays widely recognised to be an condition
with low
grade inflammation. Hence the discussion of the importance of CRP as
the
risk marker of heart disease. Some diets and foods are efficient in
reducing
inflammation and CRP. This is a way anti-inflammatory foods and herbs
might
be useful in the dietary prevention and treatment of atherosclerosis.
--
Juhana
|
Thanks for the additional information on hawthorn. There have been some
promising studies on hawthorn. It obviously has some effects, the
degree to which has not been clearly established. I'm still waiting for
the definitive study. Nonetheless, when my blood pressure was out of
control, I myself drank hawthorn berry tea and took CoQ10 supplements.
Some foods have been shown to aggravate inflammation, and some other
foods have been shown to worsen high blood pressure. It is clear that
diet is important to controlling high blood pressure. In some cases,
high blood pressure can be controlled through diet alone.
In terms of the anti-inflammatory diets... well, I don't doubt that
diet has an effect, I am just not certain as to the degree to which
inflammation can be controlled through diet. It seems patently obvious
that some foods are counter productive to controlling inflammation.
OTOH, treatment of inflammation through diet alone is questionable. I
remain open to further studies and learning on the subject of diet's
effect on health conditions in general. Meanwhile, if I can make tasty
dishes that are guided by the basic principles; well, who's going to
stop me? |
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