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The Great "Mediterranean Diet" Fraud.
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montygram
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

If you think you need to avoid "trans fat" and instead eat soybean oil,
get ready for to pick out a plot soon. Low fat dairy is horrible
stuff, not only in terms of homogenization, but due to additives such
as carrageenan. I only eat whole, organic, non-pasteurized dairy
(without additivies), and pleny of raw milk cheese.

Epidemiology is useless if underlying assumptions are incorrect, and
any epidemiologist will tell you this. They are told to measure the
effects of "saturated fat" or "trans fat," and yet there is no way to
do this for humans at present (due to the complexity of diets, the need
for many years of studyd, etc.). There isn't even one standard
definition of these phrases. Exactly what molecules are classifed as
"trans fats?" Nobody knows - it's about as antithetical to the
scientfic method as one could conjure up. In many epidemiological
studies, beef tallow and lard are classified as "saturated fat" foods,
yet they are less than 50% saturated. Asians on coconut oil diets (92%
saturated) have almost no cancer, diabetes, and heart disease (just
look at the WHO statistics - it's truly amazing) and yet "saturated
fat" gets blamed. Gary Taubes pointed out several years ago that
"saturated fat" was only considered bad in the CHD context because it
"raised cholesterol," yet there are saturated fatty acids that lower
cholesterol (especially one found in large amounts in beef). I agree
that common beef cuts, cooked while exposed to air, are at least
somewhat unhealthy (and clearly is in large amounts on a daily basis)
yet it is because of the combination of the high iron content, the high
unsaturated fatty acid content, the high oxidized cholesterol content,
and large amounts of stearic acid (which helps the iron get absorbed,
where it enhances dangerous free radical reactions) that it's
unhealthy, not because of saturated fatty acids. Coconut oil has the
saturated fatty acid, stearic, yet it's healthy because there's only
trace amounts of iron and unsaturated fattfy acids, and no cholesterol
to get oxidized. Dr. Richard Stein of the AHA recently stated directly
that only oxidized cholesterol is a dangerous.

Turning to "trans fat:" first, I want to know exactly which molecules
we are talking about. These are known - they are simple and can be
written out using basic chemistry nomeclature. Those who want to claim
that "trans fat" are "unhealthy" are obliged, if their claims are to be
taken seriously in the context of science, to identify what substance
is under discussion.

Secondly, if we are talking about molecules with double-bonds, and a
food product with little or no antioxidant protection (at least once
it's inside a person's body), then the obvious damage that can come
from the likely lipid peroxidation that will occur should be ruled out.
Otherwise, there is no reason to talk of "trans fat" - one should
simply say "lipid peroxidation," and if you read the biochemical
scientific literature, you will see that this is the phrase that is
usually used, and that this is the process that is so often implicated
as the root cause of one or another "chronic disease."

Thirdly, the industrial hydrogenation process needs to be ruled out as
the cause of the problem, rather than the fatty acids themselves.

Lastly, long term studies would then need to be done, because the
"chronic diseases" that "trans fat" supposedly cause will obviously not
occur within a few months.

Because these basic steps should have been taken a long time ago, it is
likely that they will not be done any time soon (as is the case with so
much else in "nutritional science") and therefore, the reasonable
person would look at what the evidence as a whole suggests at this
point in time (and that concerns dangerous free radical reactions -
substrates, such as unsaturated fatty acids, and enhancers, such as
iron, are major problems and easy to avoid - if you cook for yourself).
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Pizza Girl
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 440

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

OK then what is vulvolube?

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1117922620.927956.249990@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Testosteroil vs. Femzoil. Obviously you're not a Futurama fan.
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Pizza Girl
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 440

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: Milk not best for strong bones, report finds Reply with quote

LOL...you b***h!

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1117924705.984700.245300@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Just one problem. Dr. Harris, well known dairy industry shill isn't
sane "folks" himself.

As a well-known dairy industry shill, I have just one question.

**Where's my bribe money???**

The Dutch mini cream puffs from Costco left on my doorstep don't count.
I just assumed that was the anti-diary people trying to kill me sweetly
with heart disease. But God, were they good....

Stop that!

SBH
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Happy Oyster
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: In Sachen Ernst August Stemmann, Teil 10 Reply with quote

On 5 Jun 2005 01:35:27 -0700, "Frank Kalder" <editor@haplif.de> wrote:

Quote:
Happy Oyster schrieb:


Zitate und Material zu Ernst August Stemmann
============================================

Teil 10

Aus
http://www-public.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de/~klostewg/PAMPHLET_KRITIK.HTML
[...]



Hallo,

eine Diskussion fand bereits in dsmm statt.

X-post dan & dsmm / f'up2 dsmm



Gruß, Frank

Der Landtag von Nordrhein-Westfalen besieht sich einen Schaden von 50 Millionen
Euro. Der Skandal weitet sich aus...

Mit allerfreundlichstem Gruß

Aribert Deckers
--
Farbiges Röntgen, farbiges CT und farbiges MRT

http://www.ariplex.com/hws/hws_farb.htm
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mooch
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

Gee, NICE (?) chap, do you like anyone or anything?

Dave

"Nice Chap" <nc@lkdsjflkajsdflkjdaslkfjdslkafjdsklfdja.org> wrote in message
news:A6udnayHzbsUpD7fRVn-jA@comcast.com...

Quote:

I really despise Whole Foods.

..... and on and on.........
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

Nice Chap wrote:
Quote:
I really despise Whole Foods. I used to go there
because I could get a few things cheaply, like salad and
a roll and small quantities of food from the self-serve bins;
and it's located nearby. I recall asking an employee if it
was OK to sample from the bins since who knows what's fresh,
and he said sure that's fine, he says everybody does it.

However the more I went to Whole Foods, not just to one but to
any of them in my area (3 total), the more it has just seemed
like despite a few laid back employees who think rationally
about how the business should be run, actually many of them have
a police state mentality. The other day I could swear that two
of these wage-slaves actually followed me out to my car
to get my license plate number. Could it be because I tried
out an item from a bin like I was told I could? I had previously
noticed that they 'police' the bin area, trying to keep
someone there. Yikes, these people are on edge? Well what
I want to know is, if they're so paranoid then why have bins
at all? And what insane religion is being taught at Whole Foods
that cause people making only $8 on hour at best do things
like follow people out of the store?

On top of that insanity, when I think about it, there's just
no good reason for going to Whole Foods since mostly their prices
are sky-high compared to almost any other store. And it's not
like other stores don't carry equivalent stuff.


I've never shopped at Whole Foods (never been close enough to one), but
I have shopped at a place that's probably like it, and that place is
called Earth Fare (they mostly have stores in the Southeast for now).
I'll admit I don't exactly "fit in" when I go in that store, which
makes things slightly uncomfortable in there, and I wouldn't want to go
advertising that I shop there to all my friends/acquaintances I guess.
There is a slight "guilty" or maybe paranoid feeling I get when I go in
there kind of, not wanting to be one of those who thinks he's "better
than everybody else" or implies it by shopping at Earth Fare, but maybe
that's what I'm doing subconsciously. But, I like to think I go in
there to shop because I _can't_ find half the stuff they sell at a
normal grocery store. None of their products has trans fat in it and
many don't have a couple of other ingredients that I'd rather just not
have in my food if I can help it, and at the same time the selection
isn't great (stores aren't huge but definitely aren't small). So, when
you've made a choice to limit trans fat in your diet whenever possible,
yet you aren't as strict as someone who never likes to eat processed
food such as frozen food, then you have a lot more choice to choose
from in a place like Earth Fare and probably Whole Foods, at least for
now. I realize that foods such as frozen food do not "maximize
health," (my goal anyway is not to maximize health but the have optimal
health based on my preferences) but if you had a choice of shopping
Earth Fare's frozen food, most of it with minimal additional
ingredients like trans fat or MSG (have to look for MSG if you're
trying to avoid it though), vs. what you'd find in a normal
supermarket, you'd much rather choose a place like Earth Fare if you
can afford it. It does suck though to feel like a "yuppie" when you go
in there. I guess that's unfortunately what I am, and maybe I should
just get over it.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

<snip>
Quote:
None of their products has trans fat in it and
many don't have a couple of other ingredients that I'd rather just not
have in my food if I can help it, and at the same time the selection
isn't great (stores aren't huge but definitely aren't small).
snip


I meant to say their selection IS great... Earth Fare really does have
a lot of good stuff to choose from, especially for not having huge
stores.
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Mark
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:42:35 -0400, Nice Chap
<nc@lkdsjflkajsdflkjdaslkfjdslkafjdsklfdja.org> wrote:

Quote:

I really despise Whole Foods. I used to go there
because I could get a few things cheaply, like salad and
a roll and small quantities of food from the self-serve bins;
and it's located nearby. I recall asking an employee if it
was OK to sample from the bins since who knows what's fresh,
and he said sure that's fine, he says everybody does it.

However the more I went to Whole Foods, not just to one but to
any of them in my area (3 total), the more it has just seemed
like despite a few laid back employees who think rationally
about how the business should be run, actually many of them have
a police state mentality. The other day I could swear that two
of these wage-slaves actually followed me out to my car
to get my license plate number. Could it be because I tried
out an item from a bin like I was told I could? I had previously
noticed that they 'police' the bin area, trying to keep
someone there. Yikes, these people are on edge? Well what
I want to know is, if they're so paranoid then why have bins
at all? And what insane religion is being taught at Whole Foods
that cause people making only $8 on hour at best do things
like follow people out of the store?

On top of that insanity, when I think about it, there's just
no good reason for going to Whole Foods since mostly their prices
are sky-high compared to almost any other store. And it's not
like other stores don't carry equivalent stuff.

And then there's the shoppers! I detect an overly high proportion
of those revolting older female botox-addict types who think
driving a fancy car makes them important, instead of the obvious:
lonely and desperate for attention and of no importance
whatsoever i.e. Desperate Housewives types.

I now recognize that Whole Foods is not so much a supermarket
as it is a corporate high-security boutique which they
operate like someone's little fiefdom, no doubt complete with
torture chamber. Still, most people have an assumption that
when they walk into a retail business to shop, browse,
accept samples, and then buy, that's the end of it.

At this shithole called Whole Foods, it's not about that
kind of simple commerce. It's about them extracting money from
phoney shoppers who pretend to have class, and if you aren't in
their target demographic then screw you, and in fact you'd better
watch out because some of their employees are moronic
True Believers in the Corporate Cause and may be up to no good.

So then don't shop there. A store can't be all things to all people.
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joni
medicine forum addict


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

Nice Chap wrote:
Quote:
I recall asking an employee if it was OK to sample
from the bins since who knows what's fresh, and he
said sure that's fine, he says everybody does it.

Just cause 'everyone does it' doesnt make it ok to do. He was wrong to
tell you this, and you are wrong for doing it. Buy a wee bit to try
out, if its stale, then take it back for a refund instead.

Quote:
Could it be because I tried out an item from a bin
like I was told I could?

Some people eat their way thru the bins 'sampling' and dont buy
anything so yes in a way thats stealing.

Quote:
I had previously noticed that they 'police' the bin area, trying > to keep someone there. Yikes, these people are on edge?

No actually its a health law and they can get fined for letting people
put their grubby hands into the bins (thats why they have tongs or
scoops so you dont touch the foods). Also an employee needs to watch
the container area so some weirdo doesnt contaminate the foods with
something intentionally where everyone gets sick and the store gets
sued. They're paranoid? I dont think so because stuff like that
happens.

Ya know if you dont like the place for one reason or another (and rich
women with too much botox happening is a stupid reason) dont shop
there. I go where I want to shop regardless of whether they make me
'feel' unimportant or watched or whatever it doesnt matter to me as
long as they have what I want, my spending dollar is as just good as
anyone elses.


joanne
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The Ranger
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

xyzer@hotmail.com twitched throughout message
news:1117995625.307435.131920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
Quote:
I'll admit I don't exactly "fit in" when I go in that store,
[snip]


Of course you don't fit in. You never did. Don't fight your growing
paranoia. Just go back into hiding.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

The Ranger wrote:
Quote:
xyzer@hotmail.com twitched throughout message
news:1117995625.307435.131920@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
I'll admit I don't exactly "fit in" when I go in that store,
[snip]

Of course you don't fit in. You never did. Don't fight your growing
paranoia. Just go back into hiding.

lol will do, Mr. Ranger.
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Nice Chap
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

xyzer@hotmail.com wrote:

Quote:
I meant to say their selection IS great... Earth Fare really does have
a lot of good stuff to choose from, especially for not having huge
stores.

Whole Foods may be a bit different. Their variety isn't very good
but they charge a lot more than stores a few miles away. They pretend
to specialize in luxury foods and yet, once I tried to order a wine
they were completely at a loss on how to proceed, and their "experts"
were never around. Whole Foods is just a typical corporate sham
and like many corporations they have some very paranoid ideas about
store security.

If you want healthy food, avoid Whole Foods market.

Some links:

http://www.cdfe.org/whole_foods.htm

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/cspi_food_suits.html
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Nice Chap
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

Bob wrote:

Quote:
So then don't shop there. A store can't be all things to all people.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

http://www.mindfully.org/Water/2003/Mercury-Swordfish-Tuna-Shark18jan03.htm

http://www.cdfe.org/whole_foods.htm

http://www.seaturtles.org/actionalertdetails.cfm?actionAlertID=55
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Nice Chap
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

joni wrote:

Quote:
Just cause 'everyone does it' doesnt make it ok to do. He was wrong to
tell you this, and you are wrong for doing it.

No, I'm not wrong. Many small stores allow sampling, and Whole Foods
wants to project that air of personableness. They just don't want
to follow through!

This is very typical of Whole Foods:
feigned generosity that masks harsh greed
feigned friendliness that masks a police-state mentality
feigned quality that masks food dangers

In short, the stereotypical unethical Texas-based company.

http://www.cdfe.org/whole_foods.htm

http://www.mindfully.org/Water/2003/Mercury-Swordfish-Tuna-Shark18jan03.htm

http://www.seaturtles.org/actionalertdetails.cfm?actionAlertID=55
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Mark
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Whole Foods Market SUCKs Reply with quote

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:16:34 -0400, Nice Chap
<sdalkfasldkjfklj@lkjsdlfkjseldkjf.com> wrote:

Quote:
Bob wrote:

So then don't shop there. A store can't be all things to all people.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

http://www.mindfully.org/Water/2003/Mercury-Swordfish-Tuna-Shark18jan03.htm

http://www.cdfe.org/whole_foods.htm

http://www.seaturtles.org/actionalertdetails.cfm?actionAlertID=55

I now find it hard to believe your original story and it appears now
you have another agenda. I find it hard to believe that a person (not
mentally disturbed) would go on this crusade as you apparently have
against the company simply because they did not want your grubby hands
in the food bins.
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