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Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too*
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:44 am    Post subject: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball. The other factors are genetic
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.


It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.
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Robert Kopp
medicine forum addict


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:
What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball. The other factors are genetic
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.


It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.

Limiting precision work would have worse consequences for society than the
myopia it is presumed to cause. The fact is, if it is desired to eliminate
myopia through surgical intervention, it can be done, though less drastic
methods will also correct it satisfactorily.

--
Robert T. Kopp
http://analytic.tripod.com
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

Robert Kopp wrote:
Quote:
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:

What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball. The other factors are genetic
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.


It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.

Limiting precision work would have worse consequences for society than the
myopia it is presumed to cause. The fact is, if it is desired to eliminate
myopia through surgical intervention, it can be done, though less drastic
methods will also correct it satisfactorily.

--
Robert T. Kopp
http://analytic.tripod.com


If someone becomes myopic, he will be so till he is old enough for
risky refractive surgury that is hit or miss. Otis preaches the use of
plus lens as a preventive measure when doing near work.
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

Dear AceMan,

Subject: What I SUGGEST.

Quote:
From a review of Dr. Raphaelson's "advocacy" -- it became clear that we
INDUCE a negative refractive STATE in our natural eyes.


This can be confirmed, by simply taking a population of fundamental
eyes and placing a -3 diopter lens on 1/2 of them.

The "predictions" are for TWO possibilities.

1. The fundamental eye is PASSIVE -- as ASSUMED by the Donder-Helmoltz
THEORY (but never proven). Or that

2. The fundamental LIVING EYE is a dynamic system, that POTENTIALLY
will change its refractive STATE and the VALUE of the accommodatio
system is changed.

Thus the formal scientific test of these two PARADIGMS -- is to place
all fundamental eyes under a SCIENTIFIC TEST CONDITION.

And that means:

1. Divide the population of eyes (sub-set of entire population of
fundamental eyes in 1/2.

2. Place a -3 diopter lens on 1/2 of them.

3. Monitor the refractive STATE of all of them, and confirm that the
MEAN of both groups separates, i.e., that the refractive STATE of the
-3 diopter group will change by greater-than -2 diopters in one year.

That is a SCIENTIFIC TEST -- that RESPECTS the fundamental eye as a
dynamic system.

Anyone with the "equipment", can run this test anywhere. But start
with RESPECTING the natural eye as a dynamic system -- in the first
place.

Thus the "changed" question is not what "...causes organic defect", but
a recognition that the fundamental eye can have a positive or negative
refractive STATE -- tied to its AVERAGE VISUAL ENVIROMENT. And this is
a NATURAL PROCESS -- and that we REFUSE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ISSUE.

But the issue or plus-prevention -- must be a matter of an educated AND
MOTIVATED PERSON.

And that is indeed the difficulty.

Best,

Otis

++++++++++

acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
Robert Kopp wrote:
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:

What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball. The other factors are genetic
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.


It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.

Limiting precision work would have worse consequences for society than the
myopia it is presumed to cause. The fact is, if it is desired to eliminate
myopia through surgical intervention, it can be done, though less drastic
methods will also correct it satisfactorily.

--
Robert T. Kopp
http://analytic.tripod.com


If someone becomes myopic, he will be so till he is old enough for
risky refractive surgury that is hit or miss. Otis preaches the use of
plus lens as a preventive measure when doing near work.
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Quote:
Dear AceMan,

Subject: What I SUGGEST.

From a review of Dr. Raphaelson's "advocacy" -- it became clear that we
INDUCE a negative refractive STATE in our natural eyes.

This can be confirmed, by simply taking a population of fundamental
eyes and placing a -3 diopter lens on 1/2 of them.

The "predictions" are for TWO possibilities.

1. The fundamental eye is PASSIVE -- as ASSUMED by the Donder-Helmoltz
THEORY (but never proven). Or that

2. The fundamental LIVING EYE is a dynamic system, that POTENTIALLY
will change its refractive STATE and the VALUE of the accommodatio
system is changed.

"Compound Question A compound question is one which is phrased in such
a way so as to unfairly limit the possibilities of one's answer. "Are
you still as selfish as you used to be?" Even if one answers "no," one
would still be admitting that one had been selfish in the past. One
subset of the compound question fallacy is the persuasive definition.
Redefining the terms of an argument to make them support the conclusion
is the persuasive definition fallacy."

You actually know LESS about logic than you do about SCIENCE.

Who would have thought that possible???
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

Dear AceMan,

Subject: Success clearing from 20/70 to 20/40 or better.

Why it is so darned difficult. Why a person
will "reject" it.

The primate data is the final word on the dynamic behavior of the
fundamental eye.

The issue of "vision clearing" with the plus -- must be addressed by
the person (or parent) concerned with PROTECTING his child's
distant vision -- for life.

As you have seen and engineer "wised up" and INSISTED that
his children always wear the "plus" while reading. The result
was that they kept a positive refractive STATE through the
school years.

The REAL REASON why a "plus" is not offered -- is that
it is not MEDICAL. It is rather a matter of person choice and
PERSONAL RESOLVE. Prevention is indeed tedious -- and
most people will reject it on the threshod, when it CAN BE
SUCCESSFUL.

I would take this as an educational process of you Ace, so
that when your children start getting into a negative
refractive STATE -- you can give them the PREVENTIVE
support that you never had. But this knowledge transfers
"control" to you -- completely.

Enjoy,

Otis

++++++++++

Chalmer Prentice, M.D. may have not got everything right (no
one ever does) but he got this part right.

The difficulty is not the statement of what is necessary. It
is in helping the person develop the knowledge and
force-of-character to successfully implement this advice.

Today a great mass of explict DIRECT factual data spells out
the true effect that both a "confined environment" AND a minus
lens ultimately has on the refractive status of the eye.

What happens when you try to help a person use the plus as
described by Chalmer at the 20/50 level? The person states -- I
don't understand why I must use the plus -- my eye's are OK. Take
your plus lens and shove it.

This should explain why, even the ODs who "wake up" to the
necessity of using the plus -- never volunteer information about
it.

When I encounterd this information (after a long search)
I was pissed. Why not just TELL ME ABOUT THIS?

If I have the fortitude, and am 20/70, then I should
know this -- and DO IT MYSELF. While indeed
difficult, what is wrong with that?

----------------


The Eye in its Relation to Health

===============================

By Chalmer Prentice, M.D.

Transcription (c) A. Wik, 2004


Chapter IX


....The following are some very interesting experiments in
myopia which can be verified by any operator, and which prove that
refractive myopia depends on ciliary spasm, and that, even in
axial myopia, considerable repression can sometimes be made at the
near point.

[In the case of 20/50 myopia, "repression" means using a
strong plus that completely ellimates the "near" environment.
This means that the person finds the "blur point" at near, and
pulls the book in SLIGHTLY. This is to insure that the "plus" has
the maximum possible effect. OSB]


In either class of cases, repression must be made at the near
point.

In various lengths of time, we shall be able to reduce the
myopia one or two dioptres, sometimes more.

[I would suggest that the person himself (at -1 diopters) IF
HE HAS THE MOTIVATION can clear his distant vision to pass the
required 20/40 line on his own eye chart. OSB]

In most cases satisfactory results will require considerable
time and patience; but a few experiments after the following
example will suffice to show that in some very advanced stages of
myopia, it is possible to suppress, or at least check, its onward
course by repression at the near point.

[This just suggests that much greater emphasis should be
placed on PREVENTION with the plus -- when the person himself can
take the responsibility to do this work completely under his own
control. OSB]

This fact renders the fitting of minus glasses to myopic eyes
an open question.

[From the Oakley-Young study, it is clear that a slighly
myopic eye will pick up a rate of -1/2 diopter per year (average)
if a minus is worn all the time. The issue now is far more than
an "open
question". It is a proven reality. OSB]


AGE 43 NEARSIGHTEDNESS

....Age forty-three; myopia; had been wearing over the right
eye -1.25 D, left eye -1 D, with little or no change for the space
of two years; eyes in use more or less at the near point. I
recommended the removal of the concave glasses for distant vision
and prescribed +3.50 D for reading, writing and other office work.

After reading in these glasses for several days, the patient
was able to read print twelve inches from the eyes. This patient
was of more than ordinary intelligence and understood the aim of
the effort. In six months I changed the glasses for reading and
writing to a +4 D without seeing the patient. After using the +4
D glasses for several months he again came under my care for an
examination, when the left eye gave twenty-twentieths (20/20 OSB)
of vision, while the right eye was very nearly the same, but the
acuity was just perceptibly less.

[Since then, the DMV standard around the world has become
approximately 20/40. Almost the only people legally REQUIRED to
have 20/20 are professional pilots. Be clear in your mind about
this issue. OSB]

During this time the general health had improved somewhat,
including considerable gain in the nervous condition.

Similar results have been attained in thirty-four like cases;


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

EMPHASIS:

"...but the process is very tedious for the patients, and
unless their understanding is clear on the subject, it is almost
impossible to induce them to undergo the trial."


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Anyone who is considering "prevention" at the -1.5 diopter
level (20/60) must realize that the process is tedious. That
seems to be the real "objection" to prevention. This really
becomes a "personal" issue for you to resolve. It is easy to
"talk" about vision-clearing with the plus. Sounds simple until
you realize that you must make the use of a strong-plus a "habit"
for from 8 to 15 months. Just remember, it takes about 15 months
to develop -3/4 diopters of myopia -- and it is likley to take the
same amount of time to clear back to 20/40 (to pass the DMV) and
then to 20/25 and 20/20. If you are looking for an "easy" or
"quick" method -- there is none. OSB]

_____________________________________________


Otis> This suggest that a "tutorial", or an "education" review
must be supplied to the person BEFORE that minus lens is
used. Clearing vision from 20/70 to 20/40 (-1.0 diopters to
-1/4 diopter) is possible and reasonable -- provided the
issue is handled HONESTLY. I suggest the term "second
opinion" should be used as part of an offer of
true-prevention.

Otis> If the person can not accept this requirement, and gets
"stair-case" myopia because of an over-prescribed minus lens
then he would have only himself to blame -- in my opinion.

Otis> I would GLADLY PAY a professional for his time to describe
the above to me. I would have nothing to lose. I think it
is time that we learn to take this issue more seriously.

Otis> Today, we can state that there is almost absolute proof for
this dynamic-eye concept -- provided we keep the subject on
a pure-scientific level.


+++++++++++++

acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball. The other factors are genetic
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.


It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.
Back to top
Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:

Quote:
The primate data is the final word on the dynamic behavior of the
fundamental eye.

Even when directly contradicted by human data?

In your wet dreams, perhaps.

Quote:
The REAL REASON why a "plus" is not offered -- is that it
has NEVER been shown to be SAFE OR EFFECTIVE
while "periocular warming," as presented by Neil Brooks
HAS stood the test of clinical trials in relieving
accommodative myopia.

Can't argue with you there, Otis. I'll give you that one.
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p.clarkii@gmail.com
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

you are writing in a very declarative and authoritative style. is this
somebody research work you are quoting or are you just telling us what
your personal beliefs are?

and in particular I would ask you to provide the reference for the
following statement.and grow longer?

Quote:
Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball.

who says that the ciliary muscle pulling on the retina causes the
eyeball to elongate? and why would pulling on the retina cause
collagen fibers in the sclera to change their configuration


Quote:
Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.

gee, do you think this is some kind of news or something?

by the way, if you are using a simple-minded model that says excessive
accommodation induces myopia then you should know that thats an OLD
idea and various methods to relax accommodation and ciliary muscle
contraction (e.g. bifocals, having myopes take their glasses off to
read, using plus reading glasses) have all been tested and found to be
ineffective.

i realize that you think you are quite a bright guy but people have
thought these same thoughts for decades and done all the research to
investigate them. the work has moved much further along than your
current understanding of the problem is. i suggest you find some
current review articles on myopia using PubMed and do a little reading.
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Dr Judy
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 304

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball.

Could you quote that clinical evidence? Has it been published in
refereed journals?

Could you provide some published anatomy work showing that the ciliary
muscle pulls on the retina?

Once we have read those citations, we may be interested in commenting.

The other factors are genetic
Quote:
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.

Yes. Numerous published studies have suggested that genetics can
explain 60% to 80% of myopia.

Dr Judy


Quote:


It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.
Back to top
Jan
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net schreef:

Quote:
1. The fundamental eye is PASSIVE -- as ASSUMED by the Donder-Helmoltz
THEORY (but never proven).

Can you proof Otis, either Donders or Von Helmholtz did use the words
"fundamental eye" in combination with the word "PASSIVE"?

Otis,you can't

Otis, you are showing your lack in knowledge in both eye care science
and history.


Donders and Cramer (both Dutch) did a lot of research how accommodation
in the human eye works i.e. the change in anterior curve and the
movement to the cornea of this lens crystallina's front.(speaking off
dynamic's)

Von Helmholtz was capable to proof that the idea Thomas Young had
earlier about accommodation (which he, Thomas Young, was not capable too
proof) of the lens crystallina was right.(he discovered also the small
change in curvature off the posterior (back) curve off the lens crystallina

Do you still think they have used the word PASSIVE?

Donders give the world these fantastic definitions 'emmetropia',
'myopia' and 'hyperopia' of which two are ametropia's.

Not a disease, just an anomaly (a deviation of the common rule)

BTW, Snellen (also Dutch) the original inventor of the Snellen cards and
optotypes was an assistant of Donders.

Otis,having so much lack in knowledge in science history and science
itself, please beat the retreat.


Jan (normally Dutch spoken)
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retinula@hotmail.com
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

Quote:
The primate data is the final word on the dynamic behavior of the
fundamental eye.

except that the darned HUMAN data shows something different from what
you claim. so what do you do about that discrepancy? Ignor it!! how
scientific of you.

you should open up a service for treatment of myopia in monkeys,
chickens and shrews.


Quote:
As you have seen and engineer "wised up" and INSISTED that
his children always wear the "plus" while reading.

so what does him being an engineer have to do with anything? he
doesn't understand the eye. because he's an engineer like you
(allegedly) maybe he assumes the eye must work in some kind of simple
servo-mechanical input-output fashion like a rudimentary machine, and
then he treats it as such. but what is beyond your comprehension is
that the human eye is a biological entity. it doesn't follow your
simple little rules and models. we test the eye to try to figure out
how it is working, and what we know so far is that relaxing
accommodation IS NOT EFFECTIVE in reducing myopia. furthermore, we
know that the eye is not a simple adaptive mechanism as you would want
it to be. if it were, then all hyperopes would progress toward
emmetropia and all uncorrected (or undercorrected) myopes would
progress toward less myopia. but thats not what happens. in fact
undercorrected myopes become more myopic.

sorry that mother nature, or god, or evolution, or whatever you want to
believe doesn't follow your naive little engineering model.

i bet when you took biology in school you didn't do too well.

Quote:

The REAL REASON why a "plus" is not offered -- is that
it is not MEDICAL.

whatever that means??
but just so you understand-- the real reason why plus is not offered is
that it doesn't work.
or perhaps a conspiracy!


Quote:
By Chalmer Prentice, M.D.
Transcription (c) A. Wik, 2004

this was originally written in the 1890's! this demonstrates how
current your understanding of myopia research is.

get real Otis. go play shuffleboard with your friends.
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Mike Tyner
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1299

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote

Quote:
This can be confirmed, by simply taking a population of fundamental
eyes and placing a -3 diopter lens on 1/2 of them.

We don't put -3 lenses on people with zero refractions. Why would you?

-MT
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Mike Tyner
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1299

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:49 am    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

"retinula" <retinula@hotmail.com> wrote

Quote:
i bet when you took biology in school you didn't do too well.

Methinks you assume to much.

-MT
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ummwellduh
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Near work causes myopia! *genes play a factor too* Reply with quote

I am beginning to think most of you are religiously sticking to your
own theories.
and using statistics to back them up to claim "100%" infalliability.
Its true that 0.00001% is statstically insignificant, but thats what
myopic patients are hanging their hopes on. Why dont people tell their
kids that becoming billionair or even millionair is not statistically
probable, so give up all efforts. Relativity
blew up Newton's action at a distance theory (gravity), but still it is
good enuf to teach
in schools worldwide and even be used in practice.

What people with myopia want is not a theory (especially if it says you
are doomed!),
but a way to get to seeing like before, or as close to it as possible.
doesnt matter if its thru the 'water film' on eye or the contracted
pupil increasin depth of vision.

thanks for your patience,






Dr Judy wrote:
Quote:
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
What Causes Myopia?

The increase in myopia is partly due to the increase "near point"
tasks, such as the use of computer, extensive reading, playing video
games and other activities up close. Some clinical evidence indicates
that the constant eye stress from near work causes the ciliary muscle
of the eye to pull too strong on the retina and causes the slow
elongation of the eyeball.

Could you quote that clinical evidence? Has it been published in
refereed journals?

Could you provide some published anatomy work showing that the ciliary
muscle pulls on the retina?

Once we have read those citations, we may be interested in commenting.

The other factors are genetic
predispositions that pass on from generation to generation.

Yes. Numerous published studies have suggested that genetics can
explain 60% to 80% of myopia.

Dr Judy




It is important to understand that once myopia has increased to a
higher degree, there is no permanent way to reverse it other than by
surgical procedures. Therefore, it is important for us to consider ways
to control or slow down the progression of myopia before the degree of
myopia becomes very high.
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