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I'm confused about coconut oil.
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jac
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:55 am    Post subject: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

I'm trying to get some information on the benefits or hazzards of using
coconut as a dietery supplement but I keep getting lost in the medical
terminology.

Does anyone know where I can find some reputable research about coconut
oil?

I'm considering using it at the advice of a friend who told my about
its benefits. But now it's time for me to do my reserch.

I was diagnose with hypothyroidism and looking for ways to stop taking
Synthroid.

thanks.

Alex
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monty1945@lycos.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

The "hazards" of cococut oil? Perhaps if you are a pregnant cat and
they feed you hyrogenated coconut oil as your only fat source in a lab
cage, but how about the millions of people who use it as a dietary
staple and have the lowest rates of various "chronic diseases" in the
world? Even peoples with cholesterol levels now deemed "high" by US
experts, there is hardly any "heart disease" among such peoples. Want
to know why? I try to explain this on my web site, which is:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-


There are ample quoations from the professional scientific literature,
along with my explanations. If you have questions, you can ask me on
the nutritional forum on that site. And you can read what others have
asked me about these kinds of issues in the past by looking over the
old messages and replies.

Also, you should read biologist Ray Peat's free essays. He specializes
in thyroid problems, whereas my focus is on staying healthy. On my
site, click on "links" and you will see his site listed there, along
with a few others of interest.
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monty1945@lycos.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

And just to be clear about the "hazards," the hydrogenated coconut oil
would not harm you, but might cause your pregnancy to be unsuccessful.
In this experiment, however, some kittens were born healthy,
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Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

jac wrote:

Quote:
I'm trying to get some information on the benefits or hazzards of using
coconut as a dietery supplement but I keep getting lost in the medical
terminology.

I'm considering using it at the advice of a friend who told my about
its benefits. But now it's time for me to do my reserch.

Listening to coconut oil advocates, does make it tempting to try
coconut oil.

But, in reality coconut oil is NOT a magic health food.

The best explanation as to why it is not is at the bottom of the
following blog web page. And, the bit about coconut oil is at the
bottom of this blog entry.

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-nuts-and-seeds-are-excellent-foods.html
"Joel Fuhrman' Blog On March 9, 2006 01:35 PM

We should be eating food, (as nature intended) not oil (isolated fat).
When we extract the oil from the whole food it was derived from we
leave behind the lignin's, flavonoids, anti-oxidants, sterols,
stanols and phytochemcials that make raw nuts and seeds so
disease-protective. Raw nuts and seeds (not roasted peanut butter or
coconut oil) have been linked in more than 100 scientific studies to
lower risk of heart disease and lower risk of cancer. We don't even
know the full symphony of natural substances that make natural foods so
protective.

It is people like the comment above that attempt to fragment healthy
whole foods into good and bad components that lead to the confusion and
inevitable to the high-disease rates we see in America.

While Americans still think some balance of fat, carbohydrate and
protein is better or worse, they missed the main point that it is not
the balance of macronutrients (calorie containing nutrients) that is
critical, but the lack of micronutrients (phytochemicals, antioxidants,
minerals and other factors) that are the main cause of disease. We need
to eat less fat, but most of the fat we do eat should be high in
nutrients; we need to eat less protein, but most of the protein we do
eat should be high in nutrients; and we need to eat less carbohydrate,
but most of the carbohydrate we do eat should be high in nutrients.
Natural foods are the answer, not juggling macronutrients. And
consuming oils, which have the vast majority of their nutrients
removed, is called processed foods or junk food. That means they are
calorie-rich, but nutrient-poor. All oil is 120 calories per tablespoon
and those calories add up fast in an overweight nation already
over-consuming calories.


Almost all raw nuts and seeds are rich in micronutrients and protective
food substances. They are not just a fat source, and they are also rich
in plant proteins with favorable effects. We should aim to meet our
requirements for both short and long-chain omega-3's, but it is
healthy, not unhealthy, to get most of your fat intake from foods such
as almonds and sunflower seeds which are rich in mono and
polyunsaturared fats and micronutrient powerhouses, instead of
extracted oils and animal products, which do not have comparable
micronutrient density. This has already been well documented. It is
good to consume a little ground flax seeds and walnuts daily because
they are rich in those omega-3 fats that are otherwise low in the
American diet that is overly rich in animal products (largely omega-6
and saturated fats).

All tropical oils (palm and coconut) are highly saturated fats. Like
butter, cheese, and meat, tropical oils raise LDL cholesterol and clog
arteries with plaque, increasing your risk of a heart attack. We use
coconut oil (because it is so highly saturated) in animal experiments
to create atherosclerotic plaque for studying heart disease in animals.
There are different kinds of saturated fats with different impact on
LDL cholesterol levels. One long-chain sat fat, stearic acid, has
little impact on LDL cholesterol. But other long-chain saturated fatty
acids, like the ones that make up most of the saturated fat in coconut
and palm oils (known as tropical oils), do in fact raise LDL
cholesterol considerably. These saturated fats are called palmitic,
myristic, and lauric acids. They also make up most of the saturated
fatty acids in meat, poultry, and dairy fats like milk and cheese.
Other saturated fats that have little impact on LDL cholesterol levels
include medium-chain varieties like caproic, caprylic, and capic acids.
A small percentage of the saturated fat in coconut oil, about 10%, is
made up of these less harmful saturated fatty acids, but virtually all
the rest of coconut oil's saturated fat is made up of the long-chain
varieties that raise LDL.

Coconut oil is getting promoted on the web, internet and even the
health food industry, claiming its healthy because most of its fat is
made up of medium chain fatty acids (MCT), which are metabolized
differently. Yes, it is true that a small portion of coconut oil is MCT
(C-6 to C-10 fatty acids) and these do get oxidized more quickly and
have little impact on LDL-C levels. However, because the vast majority
of saturated fatty acids in coconut oil are the longer chain fatty
acids, C-12 to C-16 (lauric, myristic and palmitic acids) it does in
fact elevate LDL-C. The idea that MCT fats will induce weight loss or
detoxify the liver is an example of alternative nonsense at its highest
level. Coconut oil is 92% saturated, making it more saturated than
butter, beef tallow, or even lard. Palm oil, though it contain less
saturated fat (50%), is full of a type of saturated fat, palmitic acid,
which appears to be most conducive to heart disease.

You just can't believe everything you read on the internet. This man
above (and Dr. Mercola too) has been taken in by health food industry
hype, it is wrong. The coconut oil industry likes to point out that the
traditional Polynesian diet - high in tropical oils like coconut - is
linked with relatively low rates of heart disease. However, it's
important to remember that heart disease involves multiple variables.
It is not all fat. The high consumption of fruits, vegetables, fish and
the low consumption of cheese and beef obviously are critical in
studies of people on traditional Polynesian diets with low rates from
heart disease. To attribute the benefit to consuming coconut oil is
very deceptive and a clear marketing ploy. I for one am not claiming
that eating coconuts is unhealthy in the context of an otherwise
healthy diet or that a little saturated fat is so deadly, rather it is
the low level of micronutrients eating a diet rich in processed foods
such as oil and the high consumption of animal products that shifts
natural plant food off our plate that are key. But anyone that claims
coconut oil is a health food, or good quality butter is good for you,
is clearly not someone you should trust with your health."
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monty1945@lycos.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

I am not promoting coconut oil and have no financial interest in it. I
have stated here in the past (on more than one post) that I use it for
greasing my bread pans, but I use shredded coconut in much larger
amounts. This is also true for many of the Asian peoples who use
coconut. Coconut oil is fine though - it won't cause you any problems
and appears to have antioxidant qualities. This is important in the
"heart disease" context, because that is due to oxidized cholesterol.
Highly unsaturated oils can cause tremendous damage in this context,
unlike coconut oil. If you read the essays on my site you will see the
evidence for yourself.
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jac
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

Unfortunately, some nuts and seeds are goitrogens and therefore not the
healthiest foods for me to concentrate on for a fat and protein source.
This is one of the reasons that I was pointed in the direction of
adding coconuts (coconut oil) to my normal diet. In the past, the only
time I ate having _anything_ having to do with coconuts was in Hawaii
and some alcoholic beverage at a tropical themed restaurant. Now all
that has to change and I'm ok with it. It would just be nice to know
that adding coconuts to my normal diet might also benefit me rather
than be a change against my will--which most changes usually are.

I understand that good balanced diet and a steady regimen of exercise
is all that is needed for a healthy life, regardless of your medical
conditions.

I'm almost certain that the fountain of youth does not start with a
coconut tree planted in its center. But you have to admit, how often do
any of us eat coconuts in the US?

thanks for you valuable advice, it was very informative. This is all a
re-learning process of something that I'm sure I learned back in a
health class in high school and opted to forget about it. (ahh, to go
back in time...)

Alex
Quote:

Listening to coconut oil advocates, does make it tempting to try
coconut oil.

But, in reality coconut oil is NOT a magic health food.

The best explanation as to why it is not is at the bottom of the
following blog web page. And, the bit about coconut oil is at the
bottom of this blog entry.

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/healthy-food-nuts-and-seeds-are-excellent-foods.html
"Joel Fuhrman' Blog On March 9, 2006 01:35 PM

We should be eating food, (as nature intended) not oil (isolated fat).
When we extract the oil from the whole food it was derived from we
leave behind the lignin's, flavonoids, anti-oxidants, sterols,
stanols and phytochemcials that make raw nuts and seeds so
disease-protective. Raw nuts and seeds (not roasted peanut butter or
coconut oil) have been linked in more than 100 scientific studies to
lower risk of heart disease and lower risk of cancer. We don't even
know the full symphony of natural substances that make natural foods so
protective.

It is people like the comment above that attempt to fragment healthy
whole foods into good and bad components that lead to the confusion and
inevitable to the high-disease rates we see in America.

While Americans still think some balance of fat, carbohydrate and
protein is better or worse, they missed the main point that it is not
the balance of macronutrients (calorie containing nutrients) that is
critical, but the lack of micronutrients (phytochemicals, antioxidants,
minerals and other factors) that are the main cause of disease. We need
to eat less fat, but most of the fat we do eat should be high in
nutrients; we need to eat less protein, but most of the protein we do
eat should be high in nutrients; and we need to eat less carbohydrate,
but most of the carbohydrate we do eat should be high in nutrients.
Natural foods are the answer, not juggling macronutrients. And
consuming oils, which have the vast majority of their nutrients
removed, is called processed foods or junk food. That means they are
calorie-rich, but nutrient-poor. All oil is 120 calories per tablespoon
and those calories add up fast in an overweight nation already
over-consuming calories.


Almost all raw nuts and seeds are rich in micronutrients and protective
food substances. They are not just a fat source, and they are also rich
in plant proteins with favorable effects. We should aim to meet our
requirements for both short and long-chain omega-3's, but it is
healthy, not unhealthy, to get most of your fat intake from foods such
as almonds and sunflower seeds which are rich in mono and
polyunsaturared fats and micronutrient powerhouses, instead of
extracted oils and animal products, which do not have comparable
micronutrient density. This has already been well documented. It is
good to consume a little ground flax seeds and walnuts daily because
they are rich in those omega-3 fats that are otherwise low in the
American diet that is overly rich in animal products (largely omega-6
and saturated fats).

All tropical oils (palm and coconut) are highly saturated fats. Like
butter, cheese, and meat, tropical oils raise LDL cholesterol and clog
arteries with plaque, increasing your risk of a heart attack. We use
coconut oil (because it is so highly saturated) in animal experiments
to create atherosclerotic plaque for studying heart disease in animals.
There are different kinds of saturated fats with different impact on
LDL cholesterol levels. One long-chain sat fat, stearic acid, has
little impact on LDL cholesterol. But other long-chain saturated fatty
acids, like the ones that make up most of the saturated fat in coconut
and palm oils (known as tropical oils), do in fact raise LDL
cholesterol considerably. These saturated fats are called palmitic,
myristic, and lauric acids. They also make up most of the saturated
fatty acids in meat, poultry, and dairy fats like milk and cheese.
Other saturated fats that have little impact on LDL cholesterol levels
include medium-chain varieties like caproic, caprylic, and capic acids.
A small percentage of the saturated fat in coconut oil, about 10%, is
made up of these less harmful saturated fatty acids, but virtually all
the rest of coconut oil's saturated fat is made up of the long-chain
varieties that raise LDL.

Coconut oil is getting promoted on the web, internet and even the
health food industry, claiming its healthy because most of its fat is
made up of medium chain fatty acids (MCT), which are metabolized
differently. Yes, it is true that a small portion of coconut oil is MCT
(C-6 to C-10 fatty acids) and these do get oxidized more quickly and
have little impact on LDL-C levels. However, because the vast majority
of saturated fatty acids in coconut oil are the longer chain fatty
acids, C-12 to C-16 (lauric, myristic and palmitic acids) it does in
fact elevate LDL-C. The idea that MCT fats will induce weight loss or
detoxify the liver is an example of alternative nonsense at its highest
level. Coconut oil is 92% saturated, making it more saturated than
butter, beef tallow, or even lard. Palm oil, though it contain less
saturated fat (50%), is full of a type of saturated fat, palmitic acid,
which appears to be most conducive to heart disease.

You just can't believe everything you read on the internet. This man
above (and Dr. Mercola too) has been taken in by health food industry
hype, it is wrong. The coconut oil industry likes to point out that the
traditional Polynesian diet - high in tropical oils like coconut - is
linked with relatively low rates of heart disease. However, it's
important to remember that heart disease involves multiple variables.
It is not all fat. The high consumption of fruits, vegetables, fish and
the low consumption of cheese and beef obviously are critical in
studies of people on traditional Polynesian diets with low rates from
heart disease. To attribute the benefit to consuming coconut oil is
very deceptive and a clear marketing ploy. I for one am not claiming
that eating coconuts is unhealthy in the context of an otherwise
healthy diet or that a little saturated fat is so deadly, rather it is
the low level of micronutrients eating a diet rich in processed foods
such as oil and the high consumption of animal products that shifts
natural plant food off our plate that are key. But anyone that claims
coconut oil is a health food, or good quality butter is good for you,
is clearly not someone you should trust with your health."
Back to top
Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:

Quote:
I am not promoting coconut oil and have no financial interest in it. I
have stated here in the past (on more than one post) that I use it for
greasing my bread pans, but I use shredded coconut in much larger
amounts. This is also true for many of the Asian peoples who use
coconut. Coconut oil is fine though - it won't cause you any problems
and appears to have antioxidant qualities. This is important in the
"heart disease" context, because that is due to oxidized cholesterol.
Highly unsaturated oils can cause tremendous damage in this context,
unlike coconut oil. If you read the essays on my site you will see the
evidence for yourself.

Ooooh, ... So why are you here, Monty?

Promoting your so called website? Just a little spammer at heart, huh?

Give it up, Monty! Admit, that you were spamming your site.
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

jac wrote:
Quote:
I'm trying to get some information on the benefits or hazzards of using
coconut as a dietery supplement but I keep getting lost in the medical
terminology.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coconut-oil-thyroid/AN01367 says:
"Coconut oil: A cure for thyroid disease?
Q.
Is it true that coconut oil can help normalize thyroid function?
No name/ No state given

A.
The misconception that coconut oil can cure underactive thyroid
(hypothyroidism) arose after publication of a book several years ago
touting the beneficial effects of coconut oil for people with thyroid
disease. However, there is no evidence that coconut oil stimulates
thyroid function. In fact, some research suggests that coconut oil may
have a negative impact on the thyroid.

If you have signs or symptoms of thyroid disease, consult your doctor.
He or she can test you for thyroid disease and, if necessary, recommend
appropriate treatment."

----

--
Ron
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Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm confused about coconut oil. Reply with quote

jac wrote:

Quote:
I was diagnose with hypothyroidism and looking for ways to stop taking
Synthroid.

Ah! Yes, now I have noticed this comment.

I cured myself of hypothyroidism, a few years ago. And, if you were to
search smn in Google groups, you would find my old posts on this topic.

I did such a good job of it back then, that I will simply quote
directly an old post of mine.

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/msg/d0c9950945958e6c
"I became interested in this subject when I started suffering from an
anti-thyroid diet that basically developed into hypothyroidism.

My first response, to the thought that I was iodine deficient was that
it was impossible to be deficient in the US. Long after I had cured
myself of hypothyroidism I came across the information that that
simply is not the case. Unlike most of the developed world, the food
industry in the US is not required to use salt that contains iodine.

One would add iodine, or extra iodine, to their diet only when they
start suffering from an anti-thyroid diet. There actually is published
research that shows that consuming a high iodine diet is an antidote
to a high anti-thyroid diet in certain parts of the world.

Taking iodine, however, is *only* one small part of the treatment
plan.

First step, is to terminate the anti-thyroid diet 100%. One would
take extra iodine only when they continue to consume an anti-thyroid
diet.

An anti-thyroid diet shuts down your thyroid. To jump start your
thyroid, you would take 500mg of L-tyrosine first thing in the morning
on an empty stomach. Also some, vitamin A, zinc, and of course a tiny
amount of iodine later on in the day. If this didn't work for some
people, I don't care. It worked for me. I would say that the
L-tyrosine was more important than the iodine was. And, I am talking
about taking L-tyrosine daily for a very long, long, long time.

I got excellent results with taking only 150 mcg of iodine. I see no
reason to take larger amounts, unless you are eating a lot of soy.
Once you have experienced thyroid problems, it is better to stop the
anti-thyroid diet, then to take extra iodine."

I will add that the anti-thyroid diet would include things as innocent
as cole-slaw and broccoli, as well as soy. You should avoid the entire
broccoli family of vegetables.

Iodine in supplement form can be purchased only one way, ie in Kelp
tablets.

See also:
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsConditions/Hypothyroidismcc.html#Alternative
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