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Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure?
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Lorm
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinmung@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:442155AB.4080801@earthlink.net:
Quote:

than 1/3 of a private fee that any dentist I know will accept. Most
dental offices run with an overhead of maybe 70-80% of gross
production.
You'd lose money on every treatment you provided (the only
explanation
being that there could be compensation somewhere else).

Please. The only reason the overhead is so high is that the dentist is
probably taking home a quarter million dollars a year as his paycheck. I
found my dentist's address in the phone book, and drove past his house
earlier today. Er, correction, I drove past his GATED COMMUNITY because it
turns out that he lives in one of those snobby neighborhoods with a wall
around it. All the houses in there are in the high six figures, and a few
probably break the million mark. The only reason his prices are high is so
that he can make the payments on his big fancy house.
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Mark & Steven Bornfel
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 888

PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Lorm wrote:
Quote:

Please. The only reason the overhead is so high is that the dentist is
probably taking home a quarter million dollars a year as his paycheck. I
found my dentist's address in the phone book, and drove past his house
earlier today. Er, correction, I drove past his GATED COMMUNITY because it
turns out that he lives in one of those snobby neighborhoods with a wall
around it. All the houses in there are in the high six figures, and a few
probably break the million mark. The only reason his prices are high is so
that he can make the payments on his big fancy house.

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment, but probably not on
the best block.
Neighborhoods aren's snobby---it's the PEOPLE!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
Quote:
Lorm wrote:

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment, but probably not on
the best block.
Neighborhoods aren's snobby---it's the PEOPLE!

Steve

What are they charging in Manhatten? I knew somebody renting there,
they wanted $500,000 + for 1 bedroom apartment years ago?
What did that famous investor say when asked what he would change?
"If I could change one thing i would have bought up every square inch
of Manhatten when I had the chance"
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Lorm
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote in
news:lCCUf.15366$bu.10762@trnddc04:
Quote:

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment

People buy apartments, there? I've never heard of that. I've heard of
buying condominiums and houses, but apartments are always rented.
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Lorm wrote:
Quote:
Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote in
news:lCCUf.15366$bu.10762@trnddc04:

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment

People buy apartments, there? I've never heard of that. I've heard of
buying condominiums and houses, but apartments are always rented.


Well, I don't know, obviously someone has to own them. I think the
landlords
had listed the price of the apartment on a website in case anyone
wanted to buy, either for themselves or to rent out. Do you know how
much the
rents are in NY city? Now the Bush adminitration would have believe
that since the price of a loaf of bread hasn't gone up, there is no
inflation!
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Lorm
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

"Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote in news:1143207493.818360.247530
@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quote:

Lorm wrote:
Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote in
news:lCCUf.15366$bu.10762@trnddc04:

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment

People buy apartments, there? I've never heard of that. I've heard of
buying condominiums and houses, but apartments are always rented.


Well, I don't know, obviously someone has to own them.

Not just to live in, though. Anyone who owns apartments owns a set of
them, and they rent them out.

Quote:
I think the
landlords
had listed the price of the apartment on a website in case anyone
wanted to buy, either for themselves or to rent out.

Individual apartments aren't bought and sold. At least not that I've ever
heard of.

Quote:
Do you know how
much the
rents are in NY city?

I'm sure it depends on where in the city one chooses to rent.
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Bill
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Joel wrote:

Yup, I know exactly who that is!

Go here:

http://www.scripophily.net/muntztv.html
_____________________________________


Yep, that's the guy! At one time, his billboards were spread out all
over Southern California. From cars to TV's to stereos, Madman Muntz
was a big-time promoter for years.

Given his history and his method of driving a car, perhaps he WAS a
madman:

"Muntz was married seven times, and until the end, he drove a custom
Lincoln Continental with a TV built into the dashboard (he claimed it
helped him to drive better)."

The dashboard TV must help the driver when he gets bored with watching
the road!

- dentaldoc
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Bill
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Steve wrote:

"In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment."


Lorm then wrote:

"People buy apartments, there? I've never heard of that. I've heard
of
buying condominiums and houses, but apartments are always rented."


Clinton replied:

"Well, I don't know, obviously someone has to own them."


Lorm then replied to Clinton:

"Not just to live in, though. Anyone who owns apartments owns a set of
them, and they rent them out.

"Individual apartments aren't bought and sold. At least not that I've
ever heard of."
________________________________


OH YES, individual apartments are indeed bought and sold in New York
City! Some folks are making millions from that fact.

Long before the rest of the country had "condos," the folks in New York
were buying and selling their individual apartments. The word
"condominium" was not in common use, so people naturally called their
apartments . . . well, "apartments."

An early form of ownership was the "co-op." Many apartment buildings in
New York City are owned by their residents in the co-operative form of
ownership. Other buildings are owned by their residents in the
condominium form of ownership structure.

Most New Yorkers that I have ever met don't use the term "condo" like
we do in California. The regional term used in New York has
traditionally been "apartment." That's probably because New York had
individually-owned apartments long before the rest of the country had
condominiums. They were way out ahead of the rest of the real estate
world.

Some New York apartments are owned individually by the residents, and
some are rented. The big money is made by ownership, and then selling
at New York prices.

I still think those Dutch who bought Manhattan (from the wrong tribe of
Indians) for $24 in beads got a great bargain.

- dentaldoc
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Mark & Steven Bornfel
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 888

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Bill wrote:
Quote:
________________________________


OH YES, individual apartments are indeed bought and sold in New York
City! Some folks are making millions from that fact.

Long before the rest of the country had "condos," the folks in New York
were buying and selling their individual apartments. The word
"condominium" was not in common use, so people naturally called their
apartments . . . well, "apartments."

An early form of ownership was the "co-op." Many apartment buildings in
New York City are owned by their residents in the co-operative form of
ownership. Other buildings are owned by their residents in the
condominium form of ownership structure.

Most New Yorkers that I have ever met don't use the term "condo" like
we do in California. The regional term used in New York has
traditionally been "apartment." That's probably because New York had
individually-owned apartments long before the rest of the country had
condominiums. They were way out ahead of the rest of the real estate
world.

Some New York apartments are owned individually by the residents, and
some are rented. The big money is made by ownership, and then selling
at New York prices.

I still think those Dutch who bought Manhattan (from the wrong tribe of
Indians) for $24 in beads got a great bargain.

- dentaldoc

Bill:

I'm sure there are regional differences in usage in real estate, as
there are in other areas. In New York, the term "apartment" refers to
the configuration of the living space (ie: a multiple unit dwelling
usually with a common entrance and other amenities, such as parking lot,
grouped mailboxes, corridors, garden, etc.) and not the mode of ownership.
Condominium is usually considered owner-occupied apartments with common
areas. There are common charges which pay for capital improvements and
repairs, maintenance (incl. superintendent salaries), utilities to
common areas, gardening etc.
I believe that the concept of "cooperative apartments" is largely
restricted to the New York area. In common usage coop apartments are
owner-occupied, but technically they do not qualify as real estate at
all. The owner legally owns "shares" of the building; they do not sign
a deed, but a proprietary lease. In New York (at least) most coops have
what is called an "underlying mortgage" on the building, which for
reasons I don't understand is generally financed as a "balloon mortgage"
which is an interest-only loan. At the end of the mortgage term it must
be paid off or refinanced. This is not true generally for condos. For
this reason common charges on coops tend to be much higher than for
condos. The portion of the coop's common charges related to the
underlying mortgage are tax-deductible to shareholders, as is any
mortgage interest paid.
Both condos and coops generally have a board of directors, but usually
the amount of control exercised over the building is far greater in a
coop than in a condo. For instance, coops generally must approve all
purchasers. Unless this has changed recently, deliberations of coop
boards are protected, and it's thus very difficult to prove charges of
discrimination in these deliberations. In my condo building, the board
must waive its "right of first refusal" in order to stop an owner from
selling to another. Other than that, if the buyer gets a mortgage,
they're in. There are rules about operating a business out of the home,
but I doubt action would ever be taken against an owner unless they were
very disruptive. Most disputes with owners in my building have been
related to noise or dogs.

Steve.

PS. I was on my condo board for 3 1/2 out of the past 12 years, 2 of
them as president. I'm not any kind of real estate magnate--I just
happen to live with a RE broker.


Quote:



--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Joel344 Wrote:
Quote:
Nommuch in Manhatten ......

I mean not much in Manhattan .......


--
Joel344
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Nommuch in Manhatten ......



Clinton Wrote:
Quote:
Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:
Lorm wrote:

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment, but probably not
on
the best block.
Neighborhoods aren's snobby---it's the PEOPLE!

Steve

What are they charging in Manhatten? I knew somebody renting there,
they wanted $500,000 + for 1 bedroom apartment years ago?
What did that famous investor say when asked what he would change?
"If I could change one thing i would have bought up every square inch
of Manhatten when I had the chance"


--
Joel344
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel344's Profile: http://dentalcom.net/forum/member.php?userid=12
View this thread: http://dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4051
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Steven Bornfeld
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 492

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

Clinton wrote:
Quote:
Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

Lorm wrote:

In my neighborhood $1M will buy a nice apartment, but probably not on
the best block.
Neighborhoods aren's snobby---it's the PEOPLE!

Steve


What are they charging in Manhatten? I knew somebody renting there,
they wanted $500,000 + for 1 bedroom apartment years ago?
What did that famous investor say when asked what he would change?
"If I could change one thing i would have bought up every square inch
of Manhatten when I had the chance"



It varies greatly by neighborhood and building amenities. My wife
works exclusively in Brooklyn, which is relatively reasonable (relative
only perhaps to Manhattan). I'm sure you can still find a decent 1br in
Manhattan for 500K (to buy).
There are also rent regulations in NYC which do distort market prices.
You still hear about little old ladies living in a palacial 4 br
apartment on the UW side paying $200/month rent, but the market is
gradually being deregulated, so you don't see much of that anymore.
Still, there is no question that rent regulations have had a terrible
effect on the condition of housing in some neighborhoods. I am inclined
by temperament to favor low-income renters in areas besieged by real
estate speculation. But since being married to someone who has been in
RE partnerships, I definitely see the other side of the argument.

Steve
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Howard McCollister
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 243

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

abc wrote:
Quote:
As Steve has already pointed out, the office overhead in dentistry can
be as high as 75% or even 80%,


If I understand correctly, this means profit margins are 20% to 25%?
That's not as much as I had thought. If people knew that, they'd
probably be much more sympathetic towards their dentists. I mean, it's
long time in school, then years to establish clientele, lots of
liablility, and the pay must be just a little higher than the pay of an
average computer geek then?


From Managed Dental Care: The average U.S. dentist, the association
says, including specialists, earned net income of $213,065 in 1998.
Probably $275,000 now. Quite a bit for than a geek.
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

I heard aspirins are $16 in the hospital but a few pennies less outside
....


--
Joel344
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Stormin Mormon
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Why dentists charge differently for different patients for the same procedure? Reply with quote

In NYS, that's account of the legislation. You see, some compassionate
person decided that everyone needed health care. So, they passed a law
that said that anyone who could make it to the door of the hospital
had to be treated, regardless of payment or lack thereof.

I was (past tense) on a low risk plan for mostly healthy people. My
insurance company left NYS, and now the companies who remain are far
too expensive for me to afford. So, due to the law requiring health
care, I no longer have health care.

However, I can get Healthy NY, state run socialized medicine. I think
that was the plan all along -- to socialize medicine.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Joel344" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Joel344.2ardyo@dentalcom.net...

I heard aspirins are $16 in the hospital but a few pennies less
outside
....


--
Joel344
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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