FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Medicine forums » vision
Plus lenses for myopia
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
buywheels@hotmail.com
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right. If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ? +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

By the way I am the one who brought up the projector for book reading
question. After some investigation I have made a projection system by
hooking up a regular TV projector to a video camera that I have. Works
beautifully. Now my son reads a book by looking at a big screen 15 feet
away.
Back to top
otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Dear BuyWheels,


This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right. If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ? +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

Otis> BEFORE you do that -- I would STRONGLY suggest that you
have him read a Snellen. There is one on my site, as EyeChart #2.
There can be, and is, considerable variation between a "prescription"
and
your child's ACTUAL reading. You might be pleasantly surprised to find
that
is visual-acuity might pass the DMV level.

Otis> If you are going to take a larger degree of responsibility for
PROTECTING
his distant vision, then having him check himself is a major first
step.

Otis> Only AFTER you (and he) has confirmed his Snellen, should you
talk about
the plus -- and how to use it correctly.


Wheel> By the way I am the one who brought up the projector for book
reading
question.

Otis> The "projector" idea is excellent. That has been suggested many
times. I wish all schools did that also.


Wheel> After some investigation I have made a projection system by
hooking up a regular TV projector to a video camera that I have. Works
beautifully. Now my son reads a book by looking at a big screen 15 feet

away.

Otis> That is excellent -- and a FIRST STEP. Take your time. After
you
have him reading the Snellen (he might be clever enough to get the
right idea), then we should continue this conversation.

Otis> There are a lot of majority-opinion ODs on sci.med.vision who
are profoundly hostile to you protecting your child's distant vison
through the school years.

Otis> If it gets excessive, you can contact me at:

www.myopiafree.com

Best,

Otis
Back to top
otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Dear Wheel,

Subject: SUPPORT for plus-prevention -- from a professional.

There is profound hostility to plus-prevention on sci.med.vision -- as
you have seen.

But there are highly-qualified PROFESSIONALS like Steve Leung OD
who support it.

Here are some remarks about the need to START the plus
before you child gets too deep into myopia.

Best,

Otis

+++++++++




Despite the fact that results of studies of children who have
been given bifocals are highly equivocal, Theodore Grosvenor of
the University of Houston College of Optometry -- a proponent of
the role of bifocals in the prevention of myopia -- insists that
persistent close work causes myopia. (In what researchers
generally consider to be the most carefully performed study to
date, the two scientists ** disagree on the results.) Some of the
studies have not borne out his hypothesis, he says, because they
were conducted too late. "Once the eye has started to stretch, it
may be too late to keep it from stretching," he says, explaining
that most of the children in the study had already become myopic.
"The ultimate study would be to put reading glasses on
first-graders before anyone has developed myopia," he says.


** [One of the scientists was Dr. Francis Young. His bifocal
study showed that a combination of under-correction and a
strong plus stopped the eye's movement into myopia, i.e.,,
would help the natural eye maintain clear distant vision
if used when the eye was at the 20/40 to 20/50 level.
OSB]
Back to top
acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

buywheels@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right. If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ? +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

By the way I am the one who brought up the projector for book reading
question. After some investigation I have made a projection system by
hooking up a regular TV projector to a video camera that I have. Works
beautifully. Now my son reads a book by looking at a big screen 15 feet
away.


Please also read this. If this guy can clear his -1 vision, so can your
son if things are done right.


http://www.tc.umn.edu/~schw0709/stories/VisionTherapy.html
Back to top
otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Dear BuyWheels,

Wheels> This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription
is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right.

Otis> That might be over-prescribed. By that, I mean he might have
20/40 vision, which would make the use of a minus un-necessary. As
Bates suggested, the natural eye 'ADAPTS' to that minus -- making
"clearing" almost impossible. Further, quite a few second-opinion ODs
recommend NOT wearing that minus -- unless absolutly necessary.
So that is the reason why you should have him look at a Snellen. With
that issue understood, then,

Wheels> If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ?

Otis> That will depend on the child's habitual reading distance. For
instance, if the child habitually reads at 20 inches (-2 diopters --
approximately) then a +1.75 to +2.0 diopter lens would NEUTRALIZE that
"near" environment.

Otis> If the child reads at 13 inches (-3 diopters), then a +3 diopter
lens would be suggested. Obviously some compromise is required, and a
+2.5 dipoter would be reasonable.

Wheels> +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

Otis> Judging from the "prescription" the eye are reasonably close --
by the prescription. Reading the Snellen (say 20/50 and 20/40) would
confirm this. I would SUGGEST using equal-powers, i.e., +2 diopters
for both eyes.

Otis> The goal is that your child always keeps his vision in an
"acceptable" range, relatigve to his Snellen. As Dr. Grosvenor
suggests (and the Oakley-Young demonstrates) prevention with the plus
is wise. The real issue is how youi implement it.

Best,

Otis

+++++++


buywheels@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right. If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ? +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

By the way I am the one who brought up the projector for book reading
question. After some investigation I have made a projection system by
hooking up a regular TV projector to a video camera that I have. Works
beautifully. Now my son reads a book by looking at a big screen 15 feet
away.
Back to top
Mike Tyner
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1299

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote

Quote:
20/40 vision, which would make the use of a minus un-necessary. As
Bates suggested, the natural eye 'ADAPTS' to that minus -- making
"clearing" almost impossible.

So Dr. Bates measured the rate of myopia in children wearing glasses and
compared it to children who don't?

Quote:
Further, quite a few second-opinion ODs
recommend NOT wearing that minus -- unless absolutly necessary.

I haven't seen a comparision showing children wearing minus get more
nearsighted. Have you?

Quote:
Wheels> If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ?

Otis> That will depend on the child's habitual reading distance. For
instance, if the child habitually reads at 20 inches (-2 diopters --
approximately) then a +1.75 to +2.0 diopter lens would NEUTRALIZE that
"near" environment.

WRONG for a child with -1.50 eyes.

Quote:
Otis> If the child reads at 13 inches (-3 diopters), then a +3 diopter
lens would be suggested.

WRONG for a child with -1.50 eyes. Only +1.50 is required to have the effect
of wearing +3.00.

Quote:
Obviously some compromise is required, and a
+2.5 dipoter would be reasonable.

WRONG. With +2.50 lenses, a -1.50 child will be blurry beyond 10 inches.
Close working distances are known to cause myopia. You are forcing the child
to work at 10 inches or forcing them to read blurry. Which is it?

Quote:
confirm this. I would SUGGEST using equal-powers, i.e., +2 diopters
for both eyes.

So one eye is blurry beyond 13", the other is blurry beyond 11".

BuyWheels, in the past, back when actual doctors were using plus for myopia,
they found it essential to take the child's existing myopia into account. A
child with -2.00 of true myopia is effectively WEARING +2.00 all the time.
Adding another +2.00 with "reading glasses" gives him the vision of a -4.00
myope. Everything beyond 25 cm is blurry (1/4.00=0.25m).

Back when doctors were doing this, they had every hope that it would work.
Otis cites the few authors whose results showed some promise. But several
larger studies showed evidence to the contrary (no difference between
treated and untreated groups) and mainstream science (medicine, optometry,
visual physiology) have virtually all abandoned "the plus".

We know that close working distances are associated with the rate of myopia
creep.

We know that wearing or not wearing correction makes no difference in the
rate of myopia creep.

We know that adding to the myopia with plus lenses makes no difference in
the rate of myopia creep.

We know that a child wearing total plus at near of +4.00 will reflexively
hold his work at 10 inches OR WILL NOT SEE CLEARLY.

So according to what we _know_, wearing excessive plus might well INCREASE
the rate of myopia.

If you intend for the child to read with an effective +2.00 for near vision,
use +0.50 in the -150 eye and +1.00 in the -100 eye.

To make it practical so the child could wear drugstore glasses, you'd use
+0.75 in both eyes. Drugstores don't sell +0.75, so you'd use +1.00.

Or you could let him read without glasses. That's effectively +1.00 in one
eye, +1.50 in the other. It won't affect the outcome, but that's how a
_doctor_ would "implement it". He might also suggest equal stimulus in both
eyes and a more socially acceptable frame.

But we know that wearing or not wearing correction makes no difference in
the rate of myopia creep.

Quote:
prevention with the plus
is wise. The real issue is how youi implement it.

"Wise" is not the same as "efficacious", except to Otis, our very own myopia
creep.

-MT, OD
Back to top
p.clarkii@gmail.com
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Might i suggest that you take your direct questions to Otis Brown to
his personal e-mail account or one of the holistic vision improvement
forums that he frequents. there is his very own forum at
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/i-see/ and also another forum at
http://www.visionimprovementsite.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi

Otis is not well respected here. He gives people medical advise even
though he is unlicensed to do so and that has resulted in official
investigations in his home state of Pennsylvania. He tells people to
try treatment plans that have been totally disproven in numerous
scientific studies and in some cases his treatment suggestions can
actually do harm to patients.

if you want to follow his advise, then do so but you have been
forewarned.

your posting to him here in this forum is likely to arouse the
displeasure of knowledgable people whom are fed up with Otis and would
like to see him just go away. spare us your dialog with him please.

Quote:


buywheels@hotmail.com wrote:
> This question is for Otis Brown.
Back to top
otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Dear BuyWheels,

Some parents (who are myopic) "wake up" to
the need to PROTECT their child's distant vision
by use of the plus.

This is the same advocacy of Steve Leung OD at:


www.chinamyopia.org

Here are the details:



Subject: Success with Myopter and "plus".

In this avalanche of protest against plus-prevention, is it
wonderful to hear that some parents have developed the correct
idea about the need for prevention -- and the fact that their
child is successful with it.

But this type of "solution" truly requires parental
involvement -- and is very difficult to inspire in BOTH the
parents and child.

True-prevention can not develop until the parents learn to
"accept" this necessary intrusion in the life of their child.

But it truly beats the alternative, which is to develop
stair-case myopia from the over-prescribed minus.

Best,

Otis

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Subject: myopia reversal

Date: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:54 PM

Otis. thought you would like to see this email I just
received. Too bad those guys you are fighting with won't pay
attention to things like this. Don

+++++++++++++++++

Remember me? We purchased the myopter for my daughter when
she was 5 and ignored the minus lens prescription from her eye
doctor. We visited you in PA a short time after our purchase.
She wore the myopter for a year and then on a part time bases for
another year. Once in a while she now wears some reading glasses.
Through the last five years her eyes went from the 20/50 range and
got a little bit better each year. At her 10 year old regular
doctor's appointment a couple months ago - Jenna was able to read
the 20/20 line for the first time in her life. That was very
exciting. Thanks so much for all the great information about NOT
getting her nearsightedness glasses when she was only 5. I can
only imagine that her prescription would be much stronger now 5
years later. Jenna recently commented to me that she never use to
be able to see the spots on the moon that she can now (whatever
that means).

I just wanted to send you an encouraging testimony. I can't
tell you how thrilled I am that she does not need to rely on
glasses. Her Dad did get glasses at 5. His eyes are so bad now
that he can't do anything without his glasses.

By the way, it looks as if you really updated your website.

Very nice.


+++++++++++


buywheels@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right. If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ? +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

By the way I am the one who brought up the projector for book reading
question. After some investigation I have made a projection system by
hooking up a regular TV projector to a video camera that I have. Works
beautifully. Now my son reads a book by looking at a big screen 15 feet
away.
Back to top
otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Dear BuyWheels,

Subject: An engineer helps his children avoid entry in to
nearsightedness.

Re: The primate eye behaves as expected.

Re: It seems the parents must FIRST figure out that there
children MUST begin wearing the plus at "zero" diopters --
or else accept the consequences of NOT wearing the plus.

Re: There are optometrists who DO NOT WANT THEIR CHILDREN
TO ENTER INTO STAIR-CASE MYOPIA. Today that is the
second-opinion. If you follow this method -- your children
can keep their clear distant vision through the school years.
Here is an example of how this preventive work can be
accomplished by YOU.


Some parents finally "wake up" to the need for prevention at
the threshold as an "now or never" choice. The HELP their
children make systematic use of the plus to AVOID even entry into
myopia.

Obviously this type of dedication and support can NEVER be
prescribed. Thus do it "yourself" seems to be the only way. Thus
making the use of the prevetive plus might seem "tedious" but it
is better than the alternative -- in MY OPINION. Here is the
discussion for your interest.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Myopia Prevention: Theory and Practic

By Denis Alarie, P. Eng.


To: Mr. Howard C. Howland
W201 Seeley G Mudd Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca NY 14853 USA


Dear Sir:

About your ongoing research on the development of the eye.

It was with a great deal of interest that I read an article
in Discover magazine in the October 1995 Issue concerning your
ongoing work on the development of the eye and its relation to bio
feedback.

I come from a family of 7 where both the parents are with
normal vision and where all 5 of the children were nearsigthed and
read a lot. I graduated from Queen's University in 1977 with a
first class degree in Civil engineering and also graduated with
courses in Genetics. This interestingly enough, gave me a
background in evolution, genetics, mechanics and physics.

I had believed since I was about 15 that their was a causal
link between eye development and Myopia and indeed was immensely
interested when I read an article supporting that position.

At first (around 1972) I had hopes that by carefully
managing the use of my eyes I would be able to reverse the myopia
about (- 1 dioptre ). This I theorized would be done by using
reading glasses to simulate an at rest condition. I experimented
with various lenses used while reading and studying ranging from
+1.5 dioptre to + 2.5 dioptre, all the while thinking of and
studying the structure of the eye to see if I could gain a better
understanding of the process.

Part 2

Although my eyes never improved they did not get any worse
from a refractory point of view. It was relatively easy to
experiment since my eyes did not have any astigmatism. I could
therefore purchase glasses at the drug store for reading. I also
talked my eye doctor into prescribing glasses at -0.75 dioptre
that I would wear while attending classes. This did not do
anything even though I played around with this concept for years.

One thing that it did do was make me more aware of the minor
changes which seemed to occur with my eyes due to atmospheric
pressure, influence of alcohol and marijuana use, reading,
driving, smoking.

After I graduated 1977, I married in 1978 and had a family.
My wife was a graduate nurse at University of Toronto and was
mildly myopic with -0.50 in the right eye and -0.75 in the left
eye. She did not wear her glasses which probably helped to
prevent her vision from changing further.

We have two daughters aged 15 and 11 both of whom have eyes
that are almost perfect as far as spherical corrections are
concerned they are both at 0 dioptre +/- 0.25. From the time that
they were young I have encouraged good eye habits in both of them,
ie don't sit too close to the TV, Head up when they walk Etc.

When we moved to Timmins in 1987 we went to see an eye doctor
by the name of Al MacIvor. He was talked into prescribing reading
glasses for both of the kids. My reasoning was that since my
eyes had stabilized at about -1.00 to -1.25 dioptre that reading
glasses of +1.25 dioptre would probably be about the right level
for them. Al said that both of the girls had very little reserve
in their eyes and would both be myopic by the time they were 15.
He looked at me with a bit of a glazed look in his eyes when I
started talking to him about my ideas and probably thought I was
talking about pyramid glasses etc. I insisted that the
prescription not contain any cylindrical corrections.

This now 1995 and the girls are fine. Their eyes basically
have not changed in 8 years. They both are avid readers and
computer users and they both wear their reading glasses.

In a further elaboration to the above I have noticed that in
the workplace where I work there is a very high incidence of
occupational myopia in office workers. Truck drivers never
develop myopia. Similar to your observations about the pilots who
have good vision prior to their studies and poor vision after.

I am not looking for anything from this. Just trying to help
where I can and enjoying the chance to finally be able to transmit
my information to someone who takes it seriously and has the
professional credentials and interest in pursuing it further .


Sincerely Yours


Denis Alarie, P. Eng.


++++++++++++++


buywheels@hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
This question is for Otis Brown. My son's myopia prescription is -1.0
on the left and -1.5 on the right. If I want to try plus lenses on him
for book reading, what prescription should I go for ? +2.0 on both
eyes, or different prescription for the two eyes ?

By the way I am the one who brought up the projector for book reading
question. After some investigation I have made a projection system by
hooking up a regular TV projector to a video camera that I have. Works
beautifully. Now my son reads a book by looking at a big screen 15 feet
away.
Back to top
Dragon28
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

Dear Otis Brown,

Please answer the questions that Neil Brooks asked you on your site.
They ARE relevant.
Back to top
Rev Jessie James
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:31 am    Post subject: Re: Plus lenses for myopia Reply with quote

I don't follow what is wrong here. If a slightly myopic child normally
reads at 10" it is probably the cause for his myopia in the first place. A
+2.5D lens would force his eye to focus as if the object was much further
away. I thought the whole premise of plus lens theory was to force the eye
to focus just at the point of starting to blur.



Quote:
Obviously some compromise is required, and a
+2.5 dipoter would be reasonable.


WRONG. With +2.50 lenses, a -1.50 child will be blurry beyond 10 inches.
Close working distances are known to cause myopia. You are forcing the
child
to work at 10 inches or forcing them to read blurry. Which is it?
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:04 pm | All times are GMT
Forum index » Medicine forums » vision
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts difference between monthly and daily lenses b33k34@hotmail.com vision 2 Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:35 pm
No new posts My god! Corrective Corneal Contouring orthokeratology cor... acemanvx@yahoo.com vision 10 Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:23 am
No new posts I did not know even sunglasses and binoculars cause myopi... acemanvx@yahoo.com vision 7 Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:32 am
No new posts Contact lenses in military service biscuit vision 3 Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:08 pm
No new posts Contact lenses for Astigmastism Nite Rider vision 4 Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:39 pm

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: email marketing campaigns , electronics forum, Science forum, Unix/Linux blog, Unix/Linux documentation, Unix/Linux forums


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0286s ][ Queries: 16 (0.0024s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]