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gwcherryHatesGreenEggsAnd
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 364
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 Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject:
Depressed? Lose weight!
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Fat People Not More Jolly, Study Says
By LINDSEY TANNER, AP Medical Writer
Mon Jul 3, 4:45 PMUPDATED 20 HOURS 17 MINUTES AGO
CHICAGO - Fat people are not more jolly, according to a study that instead
found obesity is strongly linked with depression and other mood disorders.
Whether obesity might cause these problems or is the result of them is not
certain, and the research does not provide an answer, but there are theories
to support both arguments.
Depression often causes people to abandon activities, and some medications
used to treat mental illness can cause weight gain. On the other hand,
obesity is often seen as a stigma and overweight people often are subject to
teasing and other hurtful behavior.
The study of more than 9,000 adults found that mood and anxiety disorders
including depression were about 25 percent more common in the obese people
studied than in the non-obese. Substance abuse was an exception _ obese
people were about 25 percent less likely to abuse drugs or alcohol than
slimmer participants.
The results appear in the July issue of Archives of General Psychiatry,
being released Monday. The lead author was Dr. Gregory Simon, a researcher
with Group Health Cooperative in Seattle, a large nonprofit health plan in
the Pacific Northwest.
The results "suggest that the cultural stereotype of the jolly fat person is
more a figment of our imagination than a reality," said Dr. Wayne Fenton of
the National Institute of Mental Health, which funded the study.
"The take-home message for doctors is to be on the lookout for depression
among their patients who are overweight," Fenton said.
Both conditions are quite common. About one-third of U.S. adults are obese,
and depression affects about 10 percent of the population, or nearly 21
million U.S. adults in a given year.
Previous studies produced conflicting results on whether obesity is linked
with mental illness including depression, although a growing body of
research suggests there is an association.
This latest study helps resolve the question, said Dr. Susan McElroy, a
psychiatry professor at the University of Cincinnati and editor of a
textbook on obesity and mental disorders.
"This is a state-of-the-art psychiatric epidemiology study that really
confirms that there is, in fact, a relationship," she said.
The study was based on an analysis of a national survey of 9,125 adults who
were interviewed to assess mental state. Obesity status was determined using
participants' self-reported weight and height measurements.
About one-fourth of all participants were obese. Some 22 percent of obese
participants had experienced a mood disorder including depression, compared
with 18 percent of the nonobese.
McElroy said the study bolsters previous research suggesting that drug and
alcohol abuse are less common in the obese. One reason might be that
good-tasting food and substances of abuse both affect the same
reward-seeking areas of the brain, McElroy said. Why some people choose food
as a mood-regulator and others drugs or alcohol is uncertain, she said.
The study found the relationship between obesity and mental illness was
equally strong in men and women, contrasting with some previous research
that found a more robust link in women.
___
On the Net:
Archives: http://www.archgenpsyhciatry.com/
National Institute of Mental Health: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
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George Cherry wrote:
| Quote: | Fat People Not More Jolly, Study Says
By LINDSEY TANNER, AP Medical Writer
Mon Jul 3, 4:45 PMUPDATED 20 HOURS 17 MINUTES AGO
CHICAGO - Fat people are not more jolly, according to a study that instead
found obesity is strongly linked with depression and other mood disorders.
Whether obesity might cause these problems or is the result of them is not
certain, and the research does not provide an answer, but there are theories
to support both arguments.
Depression often causes people to abandon activities, and some medications
used to treat mental illness can cause weight gain. On the other hand,
obesity is often seen as a stigma and overweight people often are subject to
teasing and other hurtful behavior.
The study of more than 9,000 adults found that mood and anxiety disorders
including depression were about 25 percent more common in the obese people
studied than in the non-obese. Substance abuse was an exception _ obese
people were about 25 percent less likely to abuse drugs or alcohol than
slimmer participants.
The results appear in the July issue of Archives of General Psychiatry,
being released Monday. The lead author was Dr. Gregory Simon, a researcher
with Group Health Cooperative in Seattle, a large nonprofit health plan in
the Pacific Northwest.
The results "suggest that the cultural stereotype of the jolly fat person is
more a figment of our imagination than a reality," said Dr. Wayne Fenton of
the National Institute of Mental Health, which funded the study.
"The take-home message for doctors is to be on the lookout for depression
among their patients who are overweight," Fenton said.
Both conditions are quite common. About one-third of U.S. adults are obese,
and depression affects about 10 percent of the population, or nearly 21
million U.S. adults in a given year.
Previous studies produced conflicting results on whether obesity is linked
with mental illness including depression, although a growing body of
research suggests there is an association.
This latest study helps resolve the question, said Dr. Susan McElroy, a
psychiatry professor at the University of Cincinnati and editor of a
textbook on obesity and mental disorders.
"This is a state-of-the-art psychiatric epidemiology study that really
confirms that there is, in fact, a relationship," she said.
The study was based on an analysis of a national survey of 9,125 adults who
were interviewed to assess mental state. Obesity status was determined using
participants' self-reported weight and height measurements.
About one-fourth of all participants were obese. Some 22 percent of obese
participants had experienced a mood disorder including depression, compared
with 18 percent of the nonobese.
McElroy said the study bolsters previous research suggesting that drug and
alcohol abuse are less common in the obese. One reason might be that
good-tasting food and substances of abuse both affect the same
reward-seeking areas of the brain, McElroy said. Why some people choose food
as a mood-regulator and others drugs or alcohol is uncertain, she said.
The study found the relationship between obesity and mental illness was
equally strong in men and women, contrasting with some previous research
that found a more robust link in women.
___
On the Net:
Archives: http://www.archgenpsyhciatry.com/
National Institute of Mental Health: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
|
Obese people are malnourished and deficient of important B vitamins as
well as other vitamins important to good mental and physical health. A
high-refined-carb diet will deplete you of the water soluble vitamins.
And mis-informed efforts to cut animal fats from the diet will deplete
you of fat soluble vitamins. Losing weight without allowing for the
increased consumption of vitamin-rich foods (ie. real foods) will not
resolve the depression and will exacerbate it.
Similar circumstances occur in post partum depression. If the mother is
restricting her intake of nutrient rich foods, and eats too many
refined nutrient-deficient manufactured foods, then gives birth, then
tries to seriously cut back on food in general to restrict calories to
lose weight, she will be hit by a major deficiency of these important
vitamins and suffer varying degrees of post partum depression. The
child-bearing itself will suck the important nutrients out of her for
the most benefit possible to the developing child. She will end up
being seriously malnourished.
Unfortunately, when these depressed people go to their doctor for help,
they will only get a prescription for drugs with no effort to correct
the cause, which is an ongoing malnourishment.
TC |
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Doug Freese
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 261
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
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"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152036159.187215.152910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Obese people are malnourished and deficient of important B vitamins as
well as other vitamins important to good mental and physical health.
|
And you know this how?
| Quote: | A
high-refined-carb diet will deplete you of the water soluble vitamins.
And mis-informed efforts to cut animal fats from the diet will deplete
you of fat soluble vitamins. Losing weight without allowing for the
increased consumption of vitamin-rich foods (ie. real foods) will not
resolve the depression and will exacerbate it.
|
Even if they ate the same things as you do, which you proclaim is the
answer to all the health issues, they would still get fat/obese if they
ate TOO MANY calories. You not going to suggest 10,000 a day of your
alleged "good" calories will keep them thin and happy? I didn't think
so.
| Quote: | Unfortunately, when these depressed people go to their doctor for
help,
they will only get a prescription for drugs with no effort to correct
the cause, which is an ongoing malnourishment.
|
To generalize like this is more of your BS! To change one's eating
habits takes a lot of self control and even the best doctor with all the
nutrition knowledge in the world can't easily modify behavior. . Where
do you pull these myths from? Never mind, it's dark and brown.
-DF |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
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Doug Freese wrote:
| Quote: | "TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152036159.187215.152910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Obese people are malnourished and deficient of important B vitamins as
well as other vitamins important to good mental and physical health.
And you know this how?
|
Personal experience, reading scientific studies, observation and real
life application. I've helped dozens and dozens of people improve their
weight profile, their anxiety/depression and their general health by
the simple advice of cutting refined carbs and supplementing the
appropriate vitamins. And I've sucessfully guided most of them them to
better mental health than they were able to achieve from ill informed
medical and pharmaceutical intervention
| Quote: |
A
high-refined-carb diet will deplete you of the water soluble vitamins.
And mis-informed efforts to cut animal fats from the diet will deplete
you of fat soluble vitamins. Losing weight without allowing for the
increased consumption of vitamin-rich foods (ie. real foods) will not
resolve the depression and will exacerbate it.
Even if they ate the same things as you do, which you proclaim is the
answer to all the health issues, they would still get fat/obese if they
ate TOO MANY calories. You not going to suggest 10,000 a day of your
alleged "good" calories will keep them thin and happy? I didn't think
so.
|
I challenge you to eat a diet with no refined carbs and eat more than a
couple of 3000 calories per day. It is actually very difficult to do
because a low carb diet is very satiating. And we now know that a diet
high in refined carbs is not satiating and leads to greater overall
caloric consumption.
| Quote: |
Unfortunately, when these depressed people go to their doctor for
help,
they will only get a prescription for drugs with no effort to correct
the cause, which is an ongoing malnourishment.
To generalize like this is more of your BS! To change one's eating
habits takes a lot of self control and even the best doctor with all the
nutrition knowledge in the world can't easily modify behavior. . Where
do you pull these myths from? Never mind, it's dark and brown.
-DF
|
The hard parts about changing ones diet are:
1) realizing what the problem really is (ie carbs and not fat) and
2) getting past the horrendous cravings for carbs that occur for carbs
in the first couple of weeks. carbs are physically addictive
And the difficult part is not really changing ones diet, many people do
it on a regular basis. The difficulty lies in changing it to the proper
diet, knowing what the proper diet is, and sticking to it, and when you
realize that your health has improved and your weight has normalized
and you are feeling much better physically and mentally, it is actually
harder to let the diet slip back to the high refined high carb sugary
starchy crap that makes you feel ill. Once you are healthy, you notice
how crappy you actually feel on a high crap diet.
You have to understand that true low-carbing means removing empty
nutrient-depleted foods from your diet and replacing them with real
fresh nutrient-dense and naturally low-carb whole foods. How anyone can
argue against such a simple and common-sensical concept is beyond me,
unless, of course, you are an agenda driven inividual, then nothing
surprises me. And we all know that you aren't exactly without agenda.
TC |
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Doug Freese
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 261
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
|
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|
"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152305367.560715.177550@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Doug Freese wrote:
"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152036159.187215.152910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Obese people are malnourished and deficient of important B vitamins
as
well as other vitamins important to good mental and physical
health.
And you know this how?
Personal experience, reading scientific studies, observation and real
life application. I've helped dozens and dozens of people improve
their
weight profile, their anxiety/depression and their general health by
the simple advice of cutting refined carbs and supplementing the
appropriate vitamins. And I've sucessfully guided most of them them to
better mental health than they were able to achieve from ill informed
medical and pharmaceutical intervention
|
By God we have a real live miracle worker in our midst. We just lays his
hands on.
| Quote: | I challenge you to eat a diet with no refined carbs and eat more than
a
couple of 3000 calories per day. It is actually very difficult to do
because a low carb diet is very satiating. And we now know that a diet
high in refined carbs is not satiating and leads to greater overall
caloric consumption.
|
BS! Throw in some exercise and it's a damn piece of cake.
| Quote: | The hard parts about changing ones diet are:
1) realizing what the problem really is (ie carbs and not fat) and
2) getting past the horrendous cravings for carbs that occur for carbs
in the first couple of weeks. carbs are physically addictive
|
Yawn, not this drivel again.
| Quote: | You have to understand that true low-carbing means removing empty
nutrient-depleted foods from your diet and replacing them with real
|
Yes, remove nutrient-depleted foods but when you include grains and
claim there is a conspiracy your smoking wacky weed.
| Quote: | How anyone can
argue against such a simple and common-sensical concept is beyond me,
unless, of course, you are an agenda driven inividual, then nothing
surprises me. And we all know that you aren't exactly without agenda.
|
Yes, I have an agenda, balanced eating. Yes throw out cheap sugar and
bad fats, but add exercise, eat 60-65% carbs to include grains and
you'll be healthy and thinner. So yes, it is easy but not your way and I
have no agenda but to state you're out to lunch.
-DF |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
|
|
|
Doug Freese wrote:
| Quote: | "TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152305367.560715.177550@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Doug Freese wrote:
"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152036159.187215.152910@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Obese people are malnourished and deficient of important B vitamins
as
well as other vitamins important to good mental and physical
health.
And you know this how?
Personal experience, reading scientific studies, observation and real
life application. I've helped dozens and dozens of people improve
their
weight profile, their anxiety/depression and their general health by
the simple advice of cutting refined carbs and supplementing the
appropriate vitamins. And I've sucessfully guided most of them them to
better mental health than they were able to achieve from ill informed
medical and pharmaceutical intervention
By God we have a real live miracle worker in our midst. We just lays his
hands on.
I challenge you to eat a diet with no refined carbs and eat more than
a
couple of 3000 calories per day. It is actually very difficult to do
because a low carb diet is very satiating. And we now know that a diet
high in refined carbs is not satiating and leads to greater overall
caloric consumption.
BS! Throw in some exercise and it's a damn piece of cake.
|
Actually no. I know of many people who try that approach, you know, eat
less and exercise more, and it fails in virtually all cases. In fact, I
tried that for several years and only gained weight, regardless of how
littel I ate and how much I exercised. The fact is that more than 95%
of all people who try to lose weight by eating less and exercising more
fail. And you know that by now, so why do you persist in pushing a dead
paradigm.
| Quote: |
The hard parts about changing ones diet are:
1) realizing what the problem really is (ie carbs and not fat) and
2) getting past the horrendous cravings for carbs that occur for carbs
in the first couple of weeks. carbs are physically addictive
Yawn, not this drivel again.
|
Yes, this again. You can't change reality just by yawning it away.
| Quote: |
You have to understand that true low-carbing means removing empty
nutrient-depleted foods from your diet and replacing them with real
Yes, remove nutrient-depleted foods but when you include grains and
claim there is a conspiracy your smoking wacky weed.
|
Grains are great... for birds and cattle. And whole grains that are
properly prepared are pretty healthy. But when processed into a find
white starchy powder with all the good stuff removed, it is no longer a
useful food. And even the current "whole grain" flour is hardly any
better.
| Quote: |
How anyone can
argue against such a simple and common-sensical concept is beyond me,
unless, of course, you are an agenda driven inividual, then nothing
surprises me. And we all know that you aren't exactly without agenda.
Yes, I have an agenda, balanced eating. Yes throw out cheap sugar and
bad fats, but add exercise, eat 60-65% carbs to include grains and
you'll be healthy and thinner. So yes, it is easy but not your way and I
have no agenda but to state you're out to lunch.
-DF
|
60 to 65% carbs? How can anyone eat that many carbs without eating
refined processed nutrition-depleted crap?
If one need 2800 calories, 65% is 1820 calories of carbs. Give me a one
day menu with 1820 calories of carbs that is gotten from real, fresh,
whole produce, without any bread, pasta, soda, or any other refined and
highly processed nutrient-depleted carbs.
It is impossible to eat this many carbs in one day without eating a
significant amount of empty nutrient-depleted crap carbs.
I swear, either you are an abject idiot, or you are working for the
food industry. No one can be that bloody stupid. Who do you work for?
TC |
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Doug Freese
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 261
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
|
|
|
"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152541859.223752.251340@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Actually no. I know of many people who try that approach, you know,
eat
less and exercise more, and it fails in virtually all cases. In fact,
I
tried that for several years and only gained weight, regardless of how
littel I ate and how much I exercised. The fact is that more than 95%
of all people who try to lose weight by eating less and exercising
more
fail. And you know that by now, so why do you persist in pushing a
dead
paradigm.
|
I can show you literally thousands of people. Look at the pople that do
Tri's or running races or simply those that go and hike, walk, etc.
Stand at the line of local 5 or 10k and count the fat people. I won't
bore you with marathons and longer distances because that is a bit off
the edge. Do you think these people don't eat carbs? You may even find
they eat too much crap food but they are nonetheless, thin. I'm not
saying that thin always mean healthy but that exercise burns off the
fat, contrary to what you claim. We eat carbs by the bushel basket. The
paradigm does work! People are usually piss poor at really counting
calories. You going to convince me that if I my caloric input is
constant and keeps me at 250 pounds and I add exercise without changing
my caloric input that I'm not going to lose weight?
That my bright freind is not true. You may not beleive the body is
closed system but there is a bazillion stuidies that show it is. Put
people in a fat farm where every calorie is measured and exercise
monitored, the weight comes off like nympho's clothes at an orgy with
no if's and's or but's. It fails when people count their own calories
and amount of exercise.
| Quote: | Grains are great... for birds and cattle. And whole grains that are
properly prepared are pretty healthy.
|
Well there is a god.
| Quote: | But when processed into a find
white starchy powder with all the good stuff removed, it is no longer
a
useful food.
|
Probaply less useful but not useless. Yes plain while flour is not the
best but still better than a Snickers bar or fried dough. It's all
relative. A tuna sandwich on white bread is better then tuna on Oreo
cookies.
| Quote: | 60 to 65% carbs? How can anyone eat that many carbs without eating
refined processed nutrition-depleted crap?
|
This dance has been stuffed down your throat before but you keep it up
anyway.
If you can't figure that out why the hell are you here.
| Quote: | I swear, either you are an abject idiot, or you are working for the
food industry. No one can be that bloody stupid. Who do you work for?
|
You think everyone that disagrees with you works for the evil food
industry. I'm retired and work for nobody and never worked for any food
folks. I coach running and have turned many fat heads like you into
thinner fat heads by simply adding exercise. The good news is once they
start to shed the pounds from just adding exercise they then start to
watch what they eat and stop or slow down the cheap sugar. They do not
cut carbs and in fact carbs are the staple of life for those that
exercise. If you don't believe that, look at all the exercise journals -
do you think they suggest low carb? Are all the exercise physiologist
on the take from the food industry? Your BS house of cards falls like
the Louisiana Levee during katrina.
I think your conspiracy theory has you so Fuc*ed up, you don't know
right from wrong. Talk about ahead case. Have you thought about getting
some help.
-DF |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:34 am Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
|
|
|
Doug Freese wrote:
| Quote: | "TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152541859.223752.251340@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Actually no. I know of many people who try that approach, you know,
eat
less and exercise more, and it fails in virtually all cases. In fact,
I
tried that for several years and only gained weight, regardless of how
littel I ate and how much I exercised. The fact is that more than 95%
of all people who try to lose weight by eating less and exercising
more
fail. And you know that by now, so why do you persist in pushing a
dead
paradigm.
I can show you literally thousands of people. Look at the pople that do
Tri's or running races or simply those that go and hike, walk, etc.
|
I have. Olympians tend to be trim. Non plympians tend to not quite get
there.
| Quote: | Stand at the line of local 5 or 10k and count the fat people. I won't
bore you with marathons and longer distances because that is a bit off
the edge. Do you think these people don't eat carbs? You may even find
they eat too much crap food but they are nonetheless, thin. I'm not
saying that thin always mean healthy but that exercise burns off the
fat, contrary to what you claim. We eat carbs by the bushel basket. The
paradigm does work! People are usually piss poor at really counting
calories. You going to convince me that if I my caloric input is
constant and keeps me at 250 pounds and I add exercise without changing
my caloric input that I'm not going to lose weight?
|
Yep. Discussing world class athletes sure do put things in perspective,
especially coming form someone from the fattest and sickest country in
the world. How about discussing the norm and not extra ordinary. If you
think that having 95% of the population exercise at the level of world
class athletes is a good argument against the over comsumption of
carbs, you really are out to lunch.
| Quote: |
That my bright freind is not true. You may not beleive the body is
closed system but there is a bazillion stuidies that show it is. Put
people in a fat farm where every calorie is measured and exercise
monitored, the weight comes off like nympho's clothes at an orgy with
no if's and's or but's. It fails when people count their own calories
and amount of exercise.
|
Sigh..... more than 95% of all low calorie diets fail. But I guess the
(calorie) numbers don't lie, it's their own damned fault. The theory is
still 100% correct. (end sarcasm)
You are such a........ well, you know what you are.
| Quote: |
Grains are great... for birds and cattle. And whole grains that are
properly prepared are pretty healthy.
Well there is a god.
|
Birds have a gizzard to crush the grains to get some nutrition that is
suited to their needs. Cows have four stomachs to extract enough
nutrition from grains and grasses, again which matches their needs.
They evolved millions of years to consume a fair amount of these foods.
We do not have a gizzard nor do we have four stomachs. We evolved
eating primarily animal sourced foods and virtually no grains. When we
adapted to eating grains a mere 2000 years ago, we learned to soak and
ferment the grains to neutralize phyto-toxins and phyto-estrogens and
to enable us to get some nutrition from it. Today the grains are just
crushed and the fine white flour extracted and cooked. No soaking, no
fermenting. White bread and white pasta in not good nutritious food by
anyones yardstick, and whole grain, which is whote flour with some
grain fiber thrown in, is only slightly better.
All the recent studies that claim that whole wheat is great only
compared whole grain flour to white bleached flour, and yes, they found
that whole is better than completely bleached. Big whoop. I'd like to
see them do the same comparisons of grains to real foods. Not likely to
happen.
| Quote: |
But when processed into a find
white starchy powder with all the good stuff removed, it is no longer
a
useful food.
Probaply less useful but not useless. Yes plain while flour is not the
best but still better than a Snickers bar or fried dough. It's all
relative. A tuna sandwich on white bread is better then tuna on Oreo
cookies.
|
white flour bread, snickers, fried dough, hfcs, white sugar - same
s**t, different piles.
Yes a tuna on white is better than on oreos, but broiled fresh tuna
steak on a bed of fresh whole asparagus spears with salt, pepper,
garlic and melted butter kicks serious butt, both in terms of
palatability and in terms of good health.
| Quote: |
60 to 65% carbs? How can anyone eat that many carbs without eating
refined processed nutrition-depleted crap?
This dance has been stuffed down your throat before but you keep it up
anyway.
If you can't figure that out why the hell are you here.
|
I dare you to show me how you can eat 1800 calories of carbs a day and
not eat empty crap. I fikkin' dare you. You lazy ass. You know damned
well that 65% of calories as carbs is impossible to do without eating a
good part of it as crappy empty carbs. You can't do it. I've
definitively shown you up. You cannot answer the question without
looking stupid. I dare you. Show us how frikkin' smart you are. Answer
the question without looking like a complete fool.
| Quote: |
I swear, either you are an abject idiot, or you are working for the
food industry. No one can be that bloody stupid. Who do you work for?
You think everyone that disagrees with you works for the evil food
industry. I'm retired and work for nobody and never worked for any food
folks. I coach running and have turned many fat heads like you into
thinner fat heads by simply adding exercise. The good news is once they
start to shed the pounds from just adding exercise they then start to
watch what they eat and stop or slow down the cheap sugar. They do not
cut carbs and in fact carbs are the staple of life for those that
exercise. If you don't believe that, look at all the exercise journals -
do you think they suggest low carb? Are all the exercise physiologist
on the take from the food industry? Your BS house of cards falls like
the Louisiana Levee during katrina.
I think your conspiracy theory has you so Fuc*ed up, you don't know
right from wrong. Talk about ahead case. Have you thought about getting
some help.
-DF
|
I think that you A) have a vested interest or 2) you are too old,
stubborn and stupid to open your eyes to the reality before you. Which,
in both cases, makes you an idiot.
Saying "Cause I says so" does not make it true. Your logic does not
make sense. Mine does.
TC |
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Doug Freese
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 261
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:51 am Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
|
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|
"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152578066.667258.241650@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Yep. Discussing world class athletes sure do put things in
perspective,
especially coming form someone from the fattest and sickest country in
the world. How about discussing the norm and not extra ordinary. If
you
think that having 95% of the population exercise at the level of world
class athletes is a good argument against the over comsumption of
carbs, you really are out to lunch.
|
You dweeb, I'm talking about run of mill bloody joggers, aka norm, not
world class. Do you think those healthy people that show up for the
local 5k with 75 people are all world class? I admit I don't know
whether these people make up 1 or 50% of the population but I do know
those that do, ain't lard asses. They simply added exercise to their
lives and may still be eating white bread or tuna fish on Milky Ways but
they are lean. You keep telling me exercise doesn't make much of a
different and I give you real examples and you reply they are world
class? All 40,000 people that run the NYC marathon are world class? All
30,000 that do Boston are world class. Shall I name a few thousand other
events. As usual your talking out of your ass.
I guess the Harvard School of Public health is paid for by the food
industy? They have EXERCISE atthe base of the pyramid. I guess the
Center for Science in the Public Interest(CSPI) which like Consumer
report takes not dime from the industry are also full of s**t. They both
know that the obesity in the US today is from consuming too many TOTAL
calories. If I eat three double whoppers and large fries and omit the
white bread, you're still going to say I'll lose weight? And don't even
try to convince anyone that low carb will make people feel full and thus
eat less mand get thin.
| Quote: | Sigh..... more than 95% of all low calorie diets fail. But I guess the
(calorie) numbers don't lie, it's their own damned fault. The theory
is
still 100% correct. (end sarcasm)
|
All diets fail that restrict a balanced input . The body was not put
together to take in calories and sit on the sofa or play on your
keyboard. Add some exercise and you don't have restrict much of
anything, you get leaner, and your heart, lungs. muscles, etc like you,
even if everyone else thinks you a moron.
| Quote: | Yes a tuna on white is better than on oreos, but broiled fresh tuna
steak on a bed of fresh whole asparagus spears with salt, pepper,
garlic and melted butter kicks serious butt, both in terms of
palatability and in terms of good health.
|
Sounds delicious but I'd skip the butter and add a yummy baked potato or
Basmati rice but it's your typical tangential gobbledygook.
| Quote: | Your logic does not make sense. Mine does.
|
And I thought you had no sense of humor. You are some piece convoluted
logic. Get some exercise, you have a real synapse problem. Keep hitting
yourself in the head with the hammer, even though it feels better when
you stop.
-DF |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Depressed? Lose weight!
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|
|
Doug Freese wrote:
| Quote: | "TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152578066.667258.241650@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Yep. Discussing world class athletes sure do put things in
perspective,
especially coming form someone from the fattest and sickest country in
the world. How about discussing the norm and not extra ordinary. If
you
think that having 95% of the population exercise at the level of world
class athletes is a good argument against the over comsumption of
carbs, you really are out to lunch.
You dweeb, I'm talking about run of mill bloody joggers, aka norm, not
world class. Do you think those healthy people that show up for the
local 5k with 75 people are all world class? I admit I don't know
whether these people make up 1 or 50% of the population but I do know
those that do, ain't lard asses. They simply added exercise to their
lives and may still be eating white bread or tuna fish on Milky Ways but
they are lean. You keep telling me exercise doesn't make much of a
different and I give you real examples and you reply they are world
class? All 40,000 people that run the NYC marathon are world class? All
30,000 that do Boston are world class. Shall I name a few thousand other
events. As usual your talking out of your ass.
|
So you state that the caloric balance theory must be true because when
people exercise to extreme extents they "burn" so many calories that
there are thin as a result. That is the black box calorie balance
theory, the body ingests a certain amount of caloies and if there
aren't more consumed than expended, "something happens" and they lose
weight. You still don't know how the body differentiates between a
positive calorie balance and a negative balance, and we still don't
know how the body actually twigs on the calorie balance and how it
actually then triggers the fat to be stored or lost, but suffice it
that we know that it happens magically and without an apparent actual
set of defined biological events.
Here is my take. People eat too many carbs, especially, in some cases,
athletes who have it pounded in their heads that they need the extra
quick energy that can only be gotten from carbs, even though the body
can easily get energy from dietary and /or stored fats. Anyways, the
athlete eats a lot of carbs which elevates his blood glucose levels,
but he runs a marathon so that helps get rid of most of the excess
blood sugars and minimizes the amounts of insulin that the pancreas
must produce, less insulin production, less trigger to store fat.
Conversely, the person that eats the same amounts of carbs, you know 60
to 65% of their calories, and does not exercise like a world class
athlete, has constantly elevated levels of blood sugars, with no
exercise to heklp rid his system. Chronic, daily, elevated bg cause the
pancreas to produce very high and constant amounts of insulin, which
places all the persons cells in a constant "store fat" mode.
And by the way, elevated and constantly high production of insulin
batters the hell out of the receptor cells, which become deformed
leading to insulin resistance. The pancreas must then produce even more
insulin to get the same effect as before. Eventually the pancreas burns
completely out. You then become insulin dependent. By eating a 60 to
65% carb calorie diet, you've made your pancreas produce its lifetimes
worth of insulin and have become a Type 2 Insulin Dependent Diabetic.
Feel free to read a bio-chemistry textbook and confirm this.
| Quote: |
I guess the Harvard School of Public health is paid for by the food
industy? They have EXERCISE atthe base of the pyramid. I guess the
|
They also have carbs, especially refined carbs near the tippy top of
the pyramid. if they took the refined carbs completely out of the
pyramid, the exercise needed would become drastically smaller. They are
almost there, but not quite.
| Quote: | Center for Science in the Public Interest(CSPI) which like Consumer
report takes not dime from the industry are also full of s**t.
|
The CSPI has done a great job of listing scientists vested interests
and I us their resources all the time. I'm not aware of anything
they've said that cotradicts my statements.
They both
| Quote: | know that the obesity in the US today is from consuming too many TOTAL
calories. If I eat three double whoppers and large fries and omit the
white bread, you're still going to say I'll lose weight? And don't even
try to convince anyone that low carb will make people feel full and thus
eat less mand get thin.
|
Sounds like the old saying "Eat s**t, millions of flies can't be
wrong". It used to be a time when everybody knew that the sun revolved
around the earth, and that the eath was flat as a pancake.
If you eat one whopper without the fries and the soda, you will not
gain nearly as much weight as when you eat a whopper with the super
sized fries and the half gallon of sugar water. Did you see the movie
supersize me? There was two scenes that jumped right out at me. In
scene one, the star is talking to a very large person that is being
prepped for stomach stapling surgery. The guy is standing there with
what looks like a gallon-sized travel mug of McDonalds soda. The
grossly obese patient says that he used to drink 36 of those a week. In
the next scene the star is being examined by a doctor and the doctor
does not like the results of blood tests, etc, so he says that he
cannot believe how fast his health is deteriorating on a HIGH-FAT diet.
Excuse me but a super sized meal almost quadruples the carb content of
the meal and barely increase the fat content at all.
| Quote: |
Sigh..... more than 95% of all low calorie diets fail. But I guess the
(calorie) numbers don't lie, it's their own damned fault. The theory
is
still 100% correct. (end sarcasm)
All diets fail that restrict a balanced input . The body was not put
together to take in calories and sit on the sofa or play on your
keyboard. Add some exercise and you don't have restrict much of
anything, you get leaner, and your heart, lungs. muscles, etc like you,
even if everyone else thinks you a moron.
|
All diets fail that don't provide a balance that 1) actually works in
the real world, or 2) provides the nutrition the body needs. Low-fat
fails in both counts and and low-carb succeeds in both counts.
Thousands have learned this the hard way.
The body was not meant to eat 60 to 65% of its calories as carbs. If
you do eat that much carbs, you MUST exercise like marathon runner. It
is impossible to eat that many carbs and not gain weight without and
extreme exercise regimen.
I've cut my carbs to about 25 to 35% of my daily calories as carbs,
with no refined carbs at all most of the time. And I've managed my
weight easily with no more than a moderate amount of exercise. And I do
not NEED to exercise. I do it for fun and relaxation. I bike when I
feel like it. I jog or walk when the mood suits me. I am not bound to
the treadmill.
Anyone who eats 60 to 65% of their calories as carbs has to eat some
refined and processed high carb food, and they will absolutely have to
work out like a demon to keep the weight off. And they will not be
healthy.
| Quote: |
Yes a tuna on white is better than on oreos, but broiled fresh tuna
steak on a bed of fresh whole asparagus spears with salt, pepper,
garlic and melted butter kicks serious butt, both in terms of
palatability and in terms of good health.
Sounds delicious but I'd skip the butter and add a yummy baked potato or
Basmati rice but it's your typical tangential gobbledygook.
|
And you will gain more weight than I. Or have to exercise more than I.
| Quote: |
Your logic does not make sense. Mine does.
And I thought you had no sense of humor. You are some piece convoluted
logic. Get some exercise, you have a real synapse problem. Keep hitting
yourself in the head with the hammer, even though it feels better when
you stop.
-DF
|
Before I went low carb, I was 25 lbs overweight and gaining more on a
low-fat/high-grain diet. Similar situation, but moreso for my wife. We
also would have to get upwards of a dozen or so prescriptions per year
for assorted things liek ear infections, sinus infections, colds, flus,
etc. In the last five years I think we;ve neede one prescription that
we ended up not actually using.
We've eaten like royalty. We've never had to starve ourselves or eat in
a way that we felt hungry or starved. We've not had to run marathons.
And we *easily* lost all the weight we needed to and are much
healthier. We did not count a single calorie. Although I did for the
first year of low carbing just to see what I was eating and guess what?
We were eating more calories and fewer carbs and lost weight. On a
lower calorie diet with more carbs we were getting fatter and fatter
and less and less healthy.
Several studies came out that found the exact same thing, Low carbers
can eat up to about 300 calories more and still lose the same or more
weight than the control group.
Calories may be part of the overall picture, but it is not a fool proof
way to lose weight. In fact, it is almost a fool proof way of not
losing weight. More than 95% of the people who specifically count
calories and cut calories and cut fat, fail to successfully lose
weight. Statistically, this indicates that almost any other diet will
be as succesful or more successful than cutting fat and calories.
Think about it.
TC |
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