FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Medicine forums » cardiology
Breakdown regarding sudden tachycardia:
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 2 [20 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Bill
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Breakdown regarding sudden tachycardia: Reply with quote

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:3g8hpnFb7vj5U1@individual.net...
Quote:

x-no-archive: yes

Bill wrote:

But vaccines are different than ticks. From:

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/9/1680_54902.htm

What Are the Symptoms?


The first sign is usually a bull's-eye rash that expands to several inches
in diameter before disappearing after a few weeks. Be aware, however, that
there's not always a rash, or the rash may look different than a
bull's-eye. Other early symptoms -- with or without the rash -- are
flu-like feelings of fatigue, headache, fever, sore throat, chills, or body
aches.

The vaccine didn't *cause* the rashes, outdoor exposure did. The study
participants were examined for any skin eruption of any kind during the
study period. All rashes that occurred were cultured.



I'm not sure I understand. How can you then compare these with rashes that
came from ticks?

Quote:
It depends on what you mean by clinically meaningful. They are not 100%. I
think the Western Blot test is about 100% at ruling out patients for Lyme
and about 2/3 accurate in correctly identifing one. I'm not sure on the
other blood test.

The western blot tests for fewer than 1/3 of the genetic strains of ticks,
IIRC. My quote about no meaningful test came directly from the lips of
William Golde, PhD, formerly of the CDC, then at SUNY Stony Brook, where I
heard him speak.



Apparently there is some difference of opinion:

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/lyme/luat.htm

Quote:
No actually there is.

There is not. Frankly, as Raymond Dattwyler put it at the same meeting as
Golde, with all the new developments about coinfections, "we don't even know
what Lyme disease IS." Researchers in CT have found that the most
refractory cases are often those complicated by babesiosis, not treated by
any number of weeks of antibiotics. Turned out to be true for my child, who
did have EM rashes on face and hands but never tested positive according to
the bogus, manipulated Dearborn criteria.



In the NYC/Long Island/Westchester area I don't think there are more than a
dozen Drs. who favor long term treatment - over six months. And members of
the medical profession are actively pressing for them to lose their
licence.

Not accurate; health insurance companies have recruited some medical whores
to support them in denying expensive treatment to chronic Lyme patients.
It's true that some doctors have been overdiagnosing and overtreating for
profit, but it's equally true that academic docs underdiagnose and
undertreat for the sake of careerism. I have had the experience of being in
a room with some of those academic docs where they openly talk about
chronicity and longer term treatment and the futility and unreliability of
serum tests (and how they give any relative with a tick bite 6-8 weeks of
doxy) but who lie through their teeth for public consumption, for fear of
NIH grant money drying up if they don't follow the party line. They all say
publicly what NONE of them believe privately.

Susan

OK. Assume 6 to 8 weeks. From what I've heard most Drs. stop at 4 weeks. It
would seem to be to their advantage to have patients under treatment longer.
But I won't quibble over that. The big difference is between Drs. who cut of
the antibiotics after a short period and those who want it to go on for more
than 6 months. It is those the Med boards are going after. Are you aware of
more than 2 of those on LI?

Bill
Back to top
Brian K
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Breakdown regarding sudden tachycardia: Reply with quote

zee wrote:

"What other medications are you taking Brian? A statin by any chance?
Statins can cause sinusitis, muscle aches and pains (particularly in
the rotator cuff and shoulder area) and nerve damage including
polyneuropathy and peripheral neuropathy (the tingling)."
----

I'm on no medication other than Avilide and sometimes a half Xanax if
my heart is pumping so fast, I'm too hyper to fall asleep.
The cardiologist I saw to day completely ruled out the tingling as
being cardiac related, as it goes down my elbow into my pinky and ring
finger respectively. He said that symptomology was conducive to having
aggravated my old shoulder injury.
Back to top
Susan
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Breakdown regarding sudden tachycardia: Reply with quote

x-no-archive: yes

Bill wrote:

Quote:
I'm not sure I understand. How can you then compare these with rashes that
came from ticks?

The rashes *did* come from ticks. They cultured positive for borrelia
burgdorferi. It turned out that the least common rash caused by B.b is
a bullseye.
Quote:

Apparently there is some difference of opinion:

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/lyme/luat.htm

Not in private. And that was a slap (justifiable) at the inventors of
the LUAT, not an endorsement of the WB. Even the most sensitive WB is
not reliable, which is why serum tests are not to be used to rule out
Lyme disease, which is a clinical diagnosis. FTR, NEMC has one of the
least sensitive WB tests on the market.

As Golde, of the CDC put it; "you may be pumping out a million
antibodies to some other strain, but the FDA approved western blot isn't
going to find them."

Quote:
OK. Assume 6 to 8 weeks. From what I've heard most Drs. stop at 4 weeks. It
would seem to be to their advantage to have patients under treatment longer.

Why? There's no bucks in rx'ing doxycycline. Frankly, if someone feels
no benefit after 4 weeks and I had good reason to suspect TBDs, I'd try
other treatments. It was trial and error with my kid; doxy was best of
all the abx, but it took mepron/zithromax to cure what serum tests never
detected, even with florid EM on the face months before.

Quote:
But I won't quibble over that. The big difference is between Drs. who cut of
the antibiotics after a short period and those who want it to go on for more
than 6 months. It is those the Med boards are going after. Are you aware of
more than 2 of those on LI?

Yes; but I won't name them, and one has stopped treating Lyme due to the
persecution of others; he was only one of two taking care of kids with
chronic TBDs, a real loss. My own choice for myself and my child has
been to seek treatment by docs conversant with clinical dx of TBDs who
are capable of making other dx'es as well, and who have no commercial
interest in infusion medicine. Both our docs accept the negotiated
insurance rate and rx orals.

Setting maximum number of weeks or months is silly; you do what works,
and stop doing what doesn't work, once you've exhausted the
possibilities. I know of cases where treatment lasted years and was
finally successful, others where it was only 8 weeks and successful
enough though not completely curative, and other cases where people like
me need antibiotics seemingly permanently.

Susan
Back to top
Bill
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Breakdown regarding sudden tachycardia: Reply with quote

"Susan" <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:3g9rqrFbcgseU1@individual.net...
Quote:
x-no-archive: yes

Bill wrote:

I'm not sure I understand. How can you then compare these with rashes that
came from ticks?

The rashes *did* come from ticks. They cultured positive for borrelia
burgdorferi. It turned out that the least common rash caused by B.b is a
bullseye.

I don't understand your terminology. Were they from a tick bite or were they
from a culture in a dish?

Quote:

Apparently there is some difference of opinion:

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/lyme/luat.htm

Not in private. And that was a slap (justifiable) at the inventors of the
LUAT, not an endorsement of the WB. Even the most sensitive WB is not
reliable, which is why serum tests are not to be used to rule out Lyme
disease, which is a clinical diagnosis. FTR, NEMC has one of the least
sensitive WB tests on the market.


No I agree with that. The accuracy is as I stated. If you test positive you
are pretty sure that you have it. If you test negative there is a reasonable
chance (one out of three positives according to this study) that you have it.
I'm not sure you really disagree with what I said.

Quote:
As Golde, of the CDC put it; "you may be pumping out a million antibodies to
some other strain, but the FDA approved western blot isn't going to find
them."

OK. Assume 6 to 8 weeks. From what I've heard most Drs. stop at 4 weeks. It
would seem to be to their advantage to have patients under treatment
longer.

Why? There's no bucks in rx'ing doxycycline.

No, but most of the Drs. have the patient coming back. Sometimes weekly for
intravenous treatment. I know someone whose job it was to give those
treatments. (She is now doing something else.)

Quote:
Frankly, if someone feels no benefit after 4 weeks and I had good reason to
suspect TBDs, I'd try other treatments. It was trial and error with my kid;
doxy was best of all the abx, but it took mepron/zithromax to cure what
serum tests never detected, even with florid EM on the face months before.

But I won't quibble over that. The big difference is between Drs. who cut
of the antibiotics after a short period and those who want it to go on for
more than 6 months. It is those the Med boards are going after. Are you
aware of more than 2 of those on LI?

Yes; but I won't name them, and one has stopped treating Lyme due to the
persecution of others; he was only one of two taking care of kids with
chronic TBDs, a real loss. My own choice for myself and my child has been
to seek treatment by docs conversant with clinical dx of TBDs who are
capable of making other dx'es as well, and who have no commercial interest
in infusion medicine. Both our docs accept the negotiated insurance rate
and rx orals.

Setting maximum number of weeks or months is silly; you do what works, and
stop doing what doesn't work, once you've exhausted the possibilities. I
know of cases where treatment lasted years and was finally successful,
others where it was only 8 weeks and successful enough though not completely
curative, and other cases where people like me need antibiotics seemingly
permanently.

Susan

OK. But I think you are agreeing that there are few Drs. who do that as
opposed to Drs. who stop after, say, two months.

I was not taking sides in this. Only pointing out what I believe the situation
"on the ground" to be.

Do you test positive for Lyme?

Bill
Back to top
Susan
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: OT: about tick borne disease (Was Re: Breakdown regarding sudden tachycardia:) Reply with quote

x-no-archive: yes

Bill wrote:

Quote:
I don't understand your terminology. Were they from a tick bite or were they
from a culture in a dish?

Yes. The B.b in the dish were cultured from rashes on the study
participants.

Quote:
No I agree with that. The accuracy is as I stated. If you test positive you
are pretty sure that you have it. If you test negative there is a reasonable
chance (one out of three positives according to this study) that you have it.
I'm not sure you really disagree with what I said.

I disagree that they're even that reliable. OTOH, they may be picking
up a LOT of B.b specific bands that the lab isn't reporting, in
accordance with Dearborn. I had lots of specific IgM and IgG bands
years ago that didn't meet the criteria. Given my illness, they
would've been considered gold standard positive two years before.

Quote:
No, but most of the Drs. have the patient coming back. Sometimes weekly for
intravenous treatment. I know someone whose job it was to give those
treatments. (She is now doing something else.)

But not most of them. Most of them have the misery of charging a
nominal office visit fee, having patients like me who don't get well and
who have strange, undpredictable reactions to simple meds.

Quote:
OK. But I think you are agreeing that there are few Drs. who do that as
opposed to Drs. who stop after, say, two months.

Only due to unfair persecution over a legitimate scientific controversy.
I agree that the ones making $$$ pushing IV on everyone who walked in
the door have dwindled, but lots of us are still being treated. The
diminished numbers have nothing to do with a consensus, they have to do
with insurance lobby $$$ and professional pissing wars.

Quote:
Do you test positive for Lyme?

In the past two years, yes, on the C6 peptide while very symptomatic.
Years ago for two strains of ehrlichiae at two different labs. And I
had a hyooge swollen knee and FUO in 1983 that were never properly
diagnosed, in retrospect. I had numerous EMs over decades that were
called cellulitis, and many evanescent bullseye EMs continuously for
years until I began high dose oral doxy.

I haven't had crippling arthritis in many years, but I have severe
neurocognitive problems.

Susan
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 2 of 2 [20 Posts] Goto page:  Previous  1, 2
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:48 pm | All times are GMT
Forum index » Medicine forums » cardiology
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts Lyme disease - loss of elasticity of the skin/breakdown o... georgia lyme 0 Sat May 13, 2006 12:26 pm
No new posts Sudden onset of neuro problems, no answers - Please Help! JohnDoe lyme 5 Thu May 11, 2006 11:03 pm
No new posts Dr Michael Gray is having a nervous breakdown Ros cardiology 0 Thu May 04, 2006 12:03 pm
No new posts 2001: bartonella infection in Swedish orienteers succumb... CaliforniaLyme lyme 0 Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:41 pm
No new posts 1999: B. vinsonii subsp. berkhoffii an important, previou... CaliforniaLyme lyme 0 Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:39 pm

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: email marketing campaigns , electronics forum, Science forum, Unix/Linux blog, Unix/Linux documentation, Unix/Linux forums


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0148s ][ Queries: 16 (0.0009s) ][ GZIP on - Debug on ]