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s.c.madden@comcast.net
medicine forum addict


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Clinton Wrote:
Quote:
Sue wrote:


Reply. Who says I am defending anyone? I don't care for the
pain-in-the-butt victim mentality and that the whole world somehow
owes you something attitude.

You wouldn't think that if you had gone through an "adverse reaction"
to amalgam posioning. Don't forgot that release of hg from amalgam is
highly variable some do corrode, are mixed wrong (however you want to
look at). after all this arguing back and forth and joking it is easy
to forget that Hg is still a potent neurotoxin, it always was.

I do not care for using blunt force to shove issues down others'
throats. The name-calling, calling everyone else stupid etc. is very
unflattering.

Things have gotten better here actually. I'm not sure how long you
have been posting here, but some of the dentists were insulting certain
individuals for a long period of time.

I do not doubt that. Some of the old timers were abusive to just about
everyone, depending upon the day.


Reply. I already commented on this but you do not seem to hear. Who
is going to listen to someone that keeps bashing others, calling them
stupid and simply acting like a turd?

Actually someone who is truly objectve can separate the message from
the messanger. On the other hand some with a bias takes delight in
blaming the messanger.



If you think it does not mattter how the message is delivered, then you
are very naive. And you speak about bias. Pray tell, you
(self-proclaimed victim) are not biased? You know that your problems
came from your amalgams and anyone else that may question that belief
is shooting the messenger or sucking up to dentists. Good grief.


Reply. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It is like speaking to a
brick wall when trying to speak to someone that views themself as a
complete victim. You act as you believe that your dentist
intentionally tried to ruin your life. You and I both know that is
simply not true.

Some professionals do behave sloppily to make money at patient expense.
Who would you blame. Society? That is a strange aspect of all this
amalgam stuff, Hg fillings haven't been used in a bubble, but someone
has to know those things aren't safe. And look here, you could make
that argument with anything. For example is it really the manufacturers
fault that somebody got lung cancer from a cigarrette? You could always
say that noone is to blame for anything, but I don't see you calling
the plaintiffs in
Tobacco lawsuits "whiny victims", or arguing "lack of cigarette company
accountability". BECAUSE you have a biased self serving agenda.

That's weird. You seem to know everything and nothing at all about
me.... all in one conversation. This is where I stop listening.
Comparing the tobacco indsutry to the dental profession is beyond
comprehension. You had better think of something better than that.


About Blame. Why must you blame anyone for what happened to you? Do
you really believe your dentist thought s/he was hurting you when
placing our amalgams? I believe your dentist was providing the care
that s/he thought was the best treatment at the time.

And since then, many dentists have stopped placing amalgam (for one
reason or another). Some believe that Hg could be a problem for some
folks (although a causal link has not been definitively proven) and
others simply do not want to deal with self-diagnosing patients that
want to sue them for providing treatment.


Reply. Here we go again. Victim, victim victim. Try to see yourself
as
something other than a victim and perhaps you may get further with
your
cause. JMHO. This is NOT an attack, this is simply a truth as I see
it,
and one that you need to hear.

If it were me I would be like, well thanks for the info and i'm glad it
didn't happen to me,

Yeah well, then you missed a number of my posts to you then. You only
see what you want to see, so you can continue to play the pity card.
Victim mentalities usually do that.


Thank goodness a Mensian took the time to post
the truth on this NG!


You missed my point Mr Mensian. I simply do not care to have a loud
mouth jerk *****-slapping dentists that are trying to answer other
patients' questions.

You are not the only one in the world here you know. We got your
message.

THANKS.


When your friends come and bomabard this NG, you know exactly
what
will happen. Everyone will leave.

I am not bombarding this newsgroup.

Reply. Excuse me but you just threatened to have your friends come
and
bombard this NG.

Look at all the comments made on this newsgroup. Now my statement was
I am not bombarding this NG. Then you turn that into, well I MAY do
this
or that.

Again bias, on YOUR part becaue I am being hung for something I said
which may possibly imply something in the future. Meanwhile all the
current
and past professional misinifortion and nasty comments by DDS' are
completely forgiven and who cares if a few patients here and there got
posined by dentists. They are just "whiny victims"


I comment on what I see not what has happened in the past that I have
not seen. I have forgiven noone and blamed noone for your
circumstances.

I can't help it you threatened this newgroup. If you did not mean it
then why should I believe you mean anything you say?



Reply. huh? This makes no sense. These topics are unrelated.

Oh yeah, they are both controversial and discussed frequently, and many
threads are started by fluoride activists, yet you go after amalgam.
Why? because it irritates the dentists more, and you are defending them
or something.


What? I look at the subject matter, not who yells the loudest.

That's right ! this is a Public newgroup that is supposed to discuss
the science of dental materials.

Really? I thought the rest of public besides you, Jan and chuck were
allowed to come here and ask questions that may not be related to
amalgam.

Not the dentistsI's and Sues' personal opinion and
"I don't actually need to discuss REAL amalgam science NG". Did
the anti-amalgamists put the "Science" in SMD? Neither me Nor Jan or
chuck or anybody else needs to waste thier time being berated by
someone too lazy to read the REAL science and defending dentists in
knee jerk fashion while quoting ADA soundbytes ( which the ADA won't
even defend in court) just to make themselves feel good. God Bless
America and Freedom of speech, the scientific method and the US
congress (for finally introducting a Bill to ban amalgam)

Amen. Good for you.


--
Sue
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Reminds me of a town meeting where someone gets
up and instead of saying something about what we
are discussing, invites everyone to move out of town
and come to THEIR town meetings.


Joel


--
Joel344
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Sue wrote:
Quote:
Clinton Wrote:
Sue wrote:


I do not care for using blunt force to shove issues down others'
throats. The name-calling, calling everyone else stupid etc. is very
unflattering.


I do not engage in that kind of behavior generally, however, if certain
dentists want to name-call and can certainly resppond in kind. Things
have gotten a lot better with certain dentists leaving the group, now
there
is only the occasssionally nasty sniping (of course without any
scientific
backbup whatsoever) from a few people.

Quote:

Actually someone who is truly objectve can separate the message from
the messanger. On the other hand some with a bias takes delight in
blaming the messanger.



If you think it does not mattter how the message is delivered, then you
are very naive. And you speak about bias. Pray tell, you
(self-proclaimed victim) are not biased? You know that your problems
came from your amalgams and anyone else that may question that belief
is shooting the messenger or sucking up to dentists. Good grief.

Your are intentionally falsely classiying my posts as "victim".
Actually
my goal is to get any any scientific response whatsoever. The greater
concern is the general behavior of amalgam. there is a wide range of
Hg release, and a high level of low release on average. If I thought
that amalgam was a safe substance, i.e, that the boundaries on the
statistical variation in release rates was nothing to worry about
99.99%, and
that what happend to me or other amalgam victims was a 1 in a million
freak accident I wouldn't bring up the issue.

Quote:



the plaintiffs in
Tobacco lawsuits "whiny victims", or arguing "lack of cigarette company
accountability". BECAUSE you have a biased self serving agenda.

That's weird. You seem to know everything and nothing at all about
me.... all in one conversation. This is where I stop listening.
Comparing the tobacco indsutry to the dental profession is beyond
comprehension. You had better think of something better than that.

Why? both amalgam and cigarettes give of posionous vapors. When you
install an amalgam you are breathing in Hg vapor 24/7. Certain dental
experts even did a study to try to convince people that this was
nothing
to worry about because most people were nose breathers. Ever see
the smoking filling video? Maybe the ADA could combine cigarettes
and amalgam in a new product, they could call them amalgarretes .

Quote:

Reply. Here we go again. Victim, victim victim. Try to see yourself
as something other than a victim and perhaps you may get further with
your cause. JMHO. This is NOT an attack, this is simply a truth as I see
it, and one that you need to hear.

Actually the damage is pretty bad, extends to the jaw and causes
infection.
Have you seen my CT scan. But how would you be in a position to judge
anway or gauage the damage from dental work, jaw infection? And how
would you be able to ascertain the amount I would have recovered. You
are way off base to call me or anyone else a victim and that is really
annoying. You've probably heard the saying, do not judge until you walk
in someone elses's shoes. In fact you should be conratulatiing me for
making the diagnosis and recovering to the point where I am sharing
meaningful information in a productive manner. Luckily since I was a
Mensian
I was able to put the pieces togther. Otherwise I would have continued
to
listen to the foolish doctors and false assurances of amalgam safety
and
probably end up dead.

Quote:

If it were me I would be like, well thanks for the info and i'm glad it
didn't happen to me,

Yeah well, then you missed a number of my posts to you then. You only
see what you want to see, so you can continue to play the pity card.
Victim mentalities usually do that.

You are lying. My goal is to discusss amalgam. Furthermore why
shouldn't
dentists be held accountable. Suppose SMD was composed of Cigarette
company executive and lung cancer patients. you would go after the
patients
crying "victim". I don't know what you purpose is for being here anyway
but
it is only the internet and ideas and stories and viewpoints are
expressed
in a number of different ways. You need to chill out.

Quote:


Thank goodness a Mensian took the time to post
the truth on this NG!


You missed my point Mr Mensian. I simply do not care to have a loud
mouth jerk *****-slapping dentists that are trying to answer other
patients' questions.

1st Again go to the top of thread and see who initiated the name
calling.
AC (a dentist starts in with "made up issues of toxicity"), then Bill
follow
up with no provication with "the prescence of the crazies". Furthermore
my posts are mild compared to what has gone on here.

2nd No one is interfering with any answering of patient questions, in
fact
I only respond in threads already discussing the amalgam
controversy
or discussing the politics of this and the "alternate site"

Hey, this is just the internet, its the "Wild west". You don't have to
personally
defend dentists and create all kinds of rules. You need to chill out.


Quote:
I comment on what I see not what has happened in the past that I have
not seen. I have forgiven noone and blamed noone for your
circumstances.

I can't help it you threatened this newgroup. If you did not mean it
then why should I believe you mean anything you say?


Sue, you are beginning to scare me. What is your agenda anyway?
Even if my "threat" to "inundate the NG" with amalgam victims was
carried
out, the affects would be mild, and actually would probably be more
positive than not, since dentists would have the opportunity to talk
with amalgam victims. At any rate the dentists and other posters
make all kinds of outrageous claims. I once bet WB something like
$ 1.000,000 that he was wrong. Would you call the IRS and insist
that someone pays up? This is the internet. It's 1 and 0's This is
not reality.


Quote:

What? I look at the subject matter, not who yells the loudest.

That's right ! this is a Public newgroup that is supposed to discuss
the science of dental materials.

Really? I thought the rest of public besides you, Jan and chuck were
allowed to come here and ask questions that may not be related to
amalgam.

They can and do. Notice I cannot censor posts or posters, and I cannot
prevent them from censoring me. You are always free to create your
own group if you disagree with the content being discussed.
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s.c.madden@comcast.net
medicine forum addict


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Steven Bornfeld Wrote:
Quote:
Sue wrote:

Good for him. That is wonderful for him. My dad is 80 and seems to
have some younger "girls" interested in him .... They are in their
50s.
It used to embarass the heck out of him, but he has finally gotten
over the stigma.

Hey- It is best to grab happiness and enjoy other people that you can
connect with, when you can. Age is a just number and a mentality.
ex...Some 70-somethings relate to 50-somethings.... some don't.
Relationships and friendships are about more than a number, IMHO.

BTW, I know plenty of "girls" that have married men 7-10 years their
junior. So what? It is all within one's own comfort zone and how you
relate, IMHO. It is different for everyone.

Sorry to get off-topic.

RE: Amalgam fillings. My belief is that amalgam may prove toxic to a
minoroty of unfortunate folks. However the science has not proven a
causal link yet, even ofr a minority of folks. In the mean time, I am
bringing kids (that come from families that are not seekign care) to
low cost clinics. They are always given amalgam when a filling is
required.

Dr. Bornfeld, If I believed that this was harming them more than
helping them, I could not be doing what I do. I believe that the
chances of mercury poisoning are so slight that I am willing to take
this chance.

Without tooth pain these kids are able to concentrate in class and
eat
without pain. I believe that I am doing them a service and not
poisoning them.

In fact recent studies showed that the offspring of women that
ingested
high quantities of mercury (from seafood sources) were no more likely
to suffer birth defects and toxic effects than those that were not
exposed in utero.

I was surprised, but that is truly what the data showed. The study
was
not skewed to protect the dental industry.

Sue



I'm not pollyanna about this, but I'm also a grownup and few issues are
black and white--not even this one. You only have to look at what
passes for political discourse in the US to know how polarized
everything can become.
I have no intention of participating in any debate of the amalgam issue
anymore, as it was long ago demonstrated here and elsewhere that there
is nothing to be gained by engaging. I will only say that I am tolerant
of different views, and generally prefer to interact with tolerant
people. Most people hold these views for any number of reasons, and
malice is rarely if ever one of them. But there is no question that
amalgam usage will continue to decrease, esp. as alternative
restorative
materials improve.

Steve
I agree. If amalgam is some day replaced by an alternative restorative

material that would be great. However in the meantime I am not going to
kick myself for helping to get some kids a bit of oral health education
and needed care even if that means silver fillings. My parents did
that for me and the rest of us kids growing up and we suffered no
ill-effects.

In fact I am grateful to our parents and to our dentist for the care
that we received. And if my gratitude bothers someone else, that is
their problem. I do not apologize for that.

I am only sorry for losing my temper here.

I do not wish to engage in the amalgam debate. I find it useless to
engage in that sort of discussion here as it only becomes an emotional
battle with sniping on both sides.

I generally ignore those threads until dentists say they are leaving
because they cannot take the constant debate and resulting badgering
re: this and other controverisal topics.

Oh well. Their choice. Their battle.

Take Care.

Sue


--
Sue
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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jdrew63929@aol.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Sue wrote:
Quote:
Clinton Wrote:
Sue wrote:
Jan does not realize that if she dishes, she must expect to get
dished.


Wrong , and quite frankly I agree that what you did (the halloween
joke) was very insenstiive. I was offended myself as an "amalgam
victim". Why do dentists need defending anyway, are you their mother?

Maybe mercury poisoning takes that sort of common sensibility away?

You know we are going light on the dentists. I could post "contracts"
around the clock asking dentists to sign statments that amalgam was
not harmful and be 1000 times more obnoxious with complete
jusification.
We could post 100's of research articles and DEMAND scienific
refutation instead of letting the dentists wimp out because they say
"they are going
on vacation". You think dealing with Jan is a pain?? Wait until you
deal with some amalgam victims who are REALLY going to ask difficult
and embarrasing questions 24/7 on this NG!! As you alluded to before
most
don't bother because it is a waste of times. Dentists will also come up
with
the "smirk faced" responses until they are buried by lawsuits.
Clinton,

Then why does Jan keep bringing it up and calling attention to herself
in this manner?

<snip>

ROTFLOL!

Keep bringing up what, Sue?

Care to look at how long it has been since I have posted here?

Why do YOU insist on LYING?

The halloween so-called joke was nothing more than your sucking up.

It WAS ridiculing.

You make *light of* mercury poisoning, every chance you get.

To fit in with the dentists and the likes of Robert Morien ( who have
NEVER shown
any interest in dental issues).

Sad that YOU are the who seems to need the *attention* so badly, you
stoop so
low as to be totally INSENSTIVE to one who has indeed suffered with
*MERCURY POISONING*.

FACT: *I* was *dished* long before...YOU ever showed up here....

Jan



Quote:

-Sue


--
Sue
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Jan wrote:
Quote:
You make *light of* mercury poisoning, every chance you get.

Some people do like to defend the "amalgarette" manufacturers.
Interesting that if you swallow Hg vapor and are a nose breather the Hg
smoke is SAFE. Now why didn't the cigarette companies think of that
that? ( that if you swallow tobacco smoke it must be safe?)
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jdrew63929@aol.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Sue wrote:

Reply. I got tired of her starting threads about me and calling me a
Quote:
dumb blonde, so I threw a little bit back at her, ONCE. Seems that
offended her.

=====================

Now.... for the TRUTH.

[note the TIMES on the posts]


From: somebody - view profile
Date: Mon, Oct 31 2005 10:56 pm
Email: "somebody" <chrlie...@yahoo.com>
Groups: sci.med.dentistry
Not yet ratedRating:
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Most intelligent human beings understand that most people are more
receptive to respectful dialog than to attempts at belittlement and
sarcasm.

*************************************


Sorry Jan, I had had it up to my eyeballs.


I had asked you nicely to please leave me alone. Instead you kept
following me around and harrassing me. I tried to ignore you but I
caved, hence the Halloween costume joke.


Peace,


Sue


From: LadyLollipop - view profile
Date: Mon, Oct 31 2005 11:47 pm
Email: "LadyLollipop" <LadyLolli...@insightbb.com>
Groups: sci.med.dentistry


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"somebody" <chrlie...@yahoo.com> wrote in message


news:1130817385.021514.272550@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Quote:
Most intelligent human beings understand that most people are more
receptive to respectful dialog than to attempts at belittlement and
sarcasm.

*************************************


Quote:
Sorry Jan, I had had it up to my eyeballs.



Oh you poor baby.


Quote:
I had asked you nicely to please leave me alone.



That's EACTLY what I did.

Instead you kept following me around and harrassing me.


WOW!


What a LIAR YOU ARE.


First of all, I did NOT know this was the same Sue.


How many names do you post under?


Secondly, I am NOT following NOR harrassing YOU..


The last thing, I said to you was:


Thank you, Sue,


Best to you,


Jan


I tried to ignore you but I



Quote:
caved, hence the Halloween costume joke.


To use you words, that's a flat out lie.

You posted the NOT Holloween joke ,but rather
your BELITTLING at 5:50 PM


You made this LYING post at 2:53 PM


Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
From: "somebody" <chrlie...@yahoo.com> - Find messages by this
author
Date: 31 Oct 2005 11:53:05 -0800
Local: Mon, Oct 31 2005 2:53 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Kulancz
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message |
Show
original | Report Abuse


Thanks Dartos.


Most intelligent human beings understand that most people are more
receptive to respectful dialog than to attempts at belittlement and
sarcasm.


Oh yes, and I know there is Joel. We all know that when Joel is joking

around, he really does not care to get ANY point across. He does not
care if the other party os receptive or not. Rather, he is just having
fun.


However, if some of these people like Clinton, Dr. Kulacz, Chuck and
Lolly are serious in their "mission" and making themselves "heard" then

perhaps calling dentists "idiots," using sarcasm, jokes, and
exaggerations to make their "very serious" point(s) does not play well
to their advantage.


JMHO,


Sue


I did not know it was the same person.


I see you are a liar, and belittler.


You have some nerve, and that about all.


Dingy blonde comes to mind.


Huge mouth and no brains.



- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Quote:
Peace,


> Sue
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jdrew63929@aol.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Clinton wrote:


Jan wrote:
Quote:
You make *light of* mercury poisoning, every chance you get.


Some people do like to defend the "amalgarette" manufacturers.
Interesting that if you swallow Hg vapor and are a nose breather the Hg

smoke is SAFE. Now why didn't the cigarette companies think of that
that? ( that if you swallow tobacco smoke it must be safe?)

Speaking of manufactures...

Recently, Caulk Company, manufacturers of Dispersalloy, published the
latest
Materials Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) and their Direction For Use (DFU)
which
includes contraindications to the use of dental amalgam.
(.http://www.caulk.com/MSDSDFU/DispersDFU.html February 1998)

[no longer available]

I just happen to still have it.

**** the manufacturers are now acknowledging the intrinsic dangers of
this
material.***** The legal implications of this latest development are
far
reaching. If you continue to use dental amalgam you may be playing
legal
roulette with your assets.

Caulk state that dental amalgam should not be used:
1. In proximal or occlusal contact to dissimilar metal restorations.
2. In patients with severe renal deficiency.

3. In patients with known allergies to amalgam.

4. For retrograde or endodontic filling.

5. As a filling material for cast crown.

6. In children 6 and under.

7. In expectant mothers.

The Caulk Co. home page also warns that mercury may be a skin
sensitizer,
pulmonary sensitizer, nephrotoxin and neurotoxin and, further, cautions
that
the number of amalgam restorations for one patient should be kept to a
minimum.

Caulk has also published the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for
mercury.
Of
particular importance, are some statements made in "Section VIII -
Control
Measures, Inhalation, Chronic: Inhalation of mercury vapour over a long

period
may cause mercurialism, which is characterized by fine tremors and
erethism.
Tremors may affect the hands first, but may also become evident in the
face,
arms, and legs. Erethism may be manifested by abnormal shyness,
blushing,
self
consciousness, depression or despondency, resentment of criticism,
irritability
or excitability, headache, fatigue, and insomnia. In severe cases,
hallucinations, loss of memory, and mental deterioration may occur.
Concentrations as low as 0.03 mg/m3 have induced psychiatric symptoms
in
humans. Renal involvement may be indicated by proteinuria, albuminuria,

enzymuria, and anuria. Other effects may include salivation,
gingivitis,
stomatitis, loosening of the teeth, blue lines on the gums, diarrhea,
chronic
pneumonitis and mild anemia. Repeated exposure to mercury and its
compounds
may
result in sensitisation. Intrauterine exposure may result in tremors
and
involuntary movements in the infants. Mercury is excreted in breast
milk.
Paternal reproductive effects and effects on fertility have been
reported in
male rats following repeated inhalation exposures."

Ivoclar/Vivadent go further in their contraindications. They state that

their
amalgam is:

1. Not only contraindicated for expectant mothers but also for nursing
mothers.

2. Not only contraindicated for patients with severe renal deficiency
but
for
all

patients suffering from any reduced kidney function.

The Australian Dental Association is now in a difficult, if not
untenable,
position. The prevailing ADA position is that patient exposure to
mercury
from
amalgam dental fillings is medically insignificant. At the same time
major
amalgam manufacturers are exhibiting public warnings.

All dentists must now acknowledge the contradictions between ADA policy
and
amalgam manufacturers' public warnings.

Medico-legally, the dentist who ignores manufacturer's public warnings
places
himself/herself in a precarious position. Dentists are obliged to be
familiar
with the information provided in MSDS's for the products they use and
if
patients suffer ill effects from the product being used in a way which
is
contrary to the manufacturer's directions, then the dentist may be
liable
for
the consequences. In this situation it does not matter what the
Australian
Dental Association says, as it is the dentist who will be held
responsible.
You
may be interested to know that the American Dental Association has
recognised
such a possibility and in a recent case petitioned the court to release
it
from
a suit filed jointly against a dentist and the AmDA,. The AmDA claimed
that
it
owed no responsibility for the advice being given. The court granted
the
petition, which left the dentist, who had relied on AmDA advice, as the
sole
defendant. It is little comfort that you may be insured.

All dentists must be aware of the potential adverse effects of mercury
exposure
and must also be attentive to the potential effects in pregnant females
and
nursing mothers. Before placing another amalgam filling, a dentist
might be
well advised to establish that the patient has normal kidney function.
It is
not clear whether taking a medical history will suffice or whether a
kidney
function test might need to be requested. The galvanic effect created
by
placing different metals in a mouth with amalgam fillings has the
potential
to
increase mercury release from all amalgam fillings. This also has
implications
not generally considered when placing stainless steel orthodontic
appliances
in
a patient with amalgam fillings. The use of metal pins with amalgam may
need
to
be reconsidered. If amalgam is contraindicated in a six year old, the
next
question must surely be - at what age is amalgam safe? The scientific
research
shows clearly that mercury is toxic to all people, at all levels. The
Agency
for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry in the USA lists mercury as
one of
the twenty most hazardous substances to human beings. The ATSDR's
current
allowable Minimal Risk Levels (MRL) for acute exposure are 0.02 mcgm/m3
and
for
chronic exposure 0.014 mcgm/m3. Compare this with published research,
indicating amalgam mercury vapour concentrations in the mouth, as high
as
87.5
mcgm/m3. The absorption rate of inhaled mercury vapour is extremely
high,
approximately 80% of the inhaled dose, reaching the brain tissue within
one
blood circulation cycle. The toxic threshold for mercury vapour has
never
been
found. Even the US Environmental Protection Agency has so stated. The
existing
occupational standards are all specifically declared to be estimates
only on
the appearance of clinically observable signs and symptoms. The World
Health
Organisation, in 1991, made it clear that there is NO safe level of
mercury
vapour and that amalgam represents the greatest source of mercury to
the
general population.

The spectre of potential liability for adverse effects from dental
amalgam
is
now a reality.

ASOMAT recently made a 4 page submission to the Federal Executive of
the
Australian Dental Association offering confidential background
briefings
about
the latest research to all Executive members and any other officers or
committees. ASOMAT's submission was conciliatory and asked for the
lines of
communication to be opened so that the ADA could stay informed about
ALL the
research. Our offer of cooperation was peremptorily rejected.

Any dentist faced with patients wanting the removal of amalgams from
their
mouths should note that specific protocols exist for the safer removal
of
amalgam. Unless you are familiar with these protocols, it is not
recommended
to
proceed with the wholesale removal of dental amalgam. You may create
more
problems than you solve.

It would be appropriate for you to contact your insurer and ask the
specific
question..." If I use amalgam contrary to the specific warnings and
contraindications stated by the manufacturer and my patient suffers
effects
known to be associated with mercury exposure, will you cover me fully
for my
legal costs and any damages in the event that the patient sues me? "
Whatever
the answer, get it in writing!

ASOMAT's concern has always been that dentists and patients be fully
informed.
We are very worried that the profession is badly prepared to deal with
these
quickly changing circumstances, especially in light of a recent press
conference in Sweden on the 19th February 1998. At that time the
Swedish
Council for Planning and Coordinating Research, a body commissioned by
the
Swedish Government to review the literature on amalgams, stated the
following..
"Mercury from amalgam may damage the brain, kidneys and the immune
system of
a
great number of people. The effects in foetus and children are of most
concern." Those are the conclusions of a report soon to be handed to
the
Government. "There is no conflict any more", says Gunnar Goude from the

board
of the Swedish Council for Planning and Coordinating Research (FRN),
after
reviewing the comprehensive documentation from the four seminars.
"There is
total agreement among the Board members that it is time to move forward
and
leave amalgam.
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Joel344 wrote:
Quote:
Reminds me of a town meeting where someone gets
up and instead of saying something about what we
are discussing, invites everyone to move out of town
and come to THEIR town meetings.

I'd say the courtesy level of the group has improved TREMEDOUSLY
since certain dentists left!


By the way, Sue makes a good point about cigarettes. Ever see
the smoking tooth video? Now if they just called fillings amalgarettes
then I guess that explains why the amalgarette manufacturers
have testified before congress that amalgam vapor is neither addictive
nor harfmful!
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JPG
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 569

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

On 2 Apr 2006 13:07:04 -0700, "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote:

Quote:

Steven Bornfeld wrote:


Do any educators use Stanford-Binet scores anymore?
I know a Mensa member. He loves it. He says it's good for meeting
"girls".

It is a social club so I suppose that's not surprising.

Quote:
Actually I think schools have done away with Stanford-Binet tests for
sometime now. You actually don't have to take an IQ test to join
mensa but can use other tests

In the UK you have to do an IQ test. SATs tests and the like aren't
acceptable. I don't know much about American Mensa except that it
depends when you took one of those tests as to how it is viewed.

Quote:
(or could before) such as the GMAT,
GRE, SAT, Miller analogies test etc. That way someone who
who is good in businesss or analogies might be able to get in
using the GMAT or Miller analogies tests. if all else fails i heard
that practicing with IQ tests can boost your score a good 30 points
on a regular IQ test!

I believe you can increase your score by a few points by practising
but not 30 points.

Ann
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JPG
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 569

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

On 2 Apr 2006 09:01:52 -0700, "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote:

Quote:

Ann wrote:

ROFL! I'm a member of British Mensa but I wouldn't begin to think
that means that people should automatically take notice of what I say.


So what do you think, a few dentists formed their own group. How about
www.sci.med.mensa??

Why would people want to read a group like that?

They won't.

Ann
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Ann wrote:
Quote:
In the UK you have to do an IQ test. SATs tests and the like aren't
acceptable. I don't know much about American Mensa except that it
depends when you took one of those tests as to how it is viewed.

While we are on the subject I see this on their site:

We'll evaluate your scores for free in April!
To qualify for Mensa, our only requirement is a score in the top 2
percent on any one of 200 accepted, standardized intelligence tests at
any point during your life. And during the month of April, we are
waiving the $30 fee for reviewing test scores for membership. Fill out
the online application, print and mail it before the end of the month
to take advantage of this offer!
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letsconnect
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 292

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

Clinton wrote:


Quote:
To qualify for Mensa, our only requirement is a score in the top 2
percent on any one of 200 accepted, standardized intelligence tests at
any point during your life. And during the month of April, we are
waiving the $30 fee for reviewing test scores for membership.

Wott????? You mean you actually have to pay to join Mensa in the normal
way (except for Aprili Fool's Month)?
What halfway intelligent person would do that?
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

letsconnect wrote:
Quote:
Clinton wrote:


To qualify for Mensa, our only requirement is a score in the top 2
percent on any one of 200 accepted, standardized intelligence tests at
any point during your life. And during the month of April, we are
waiving the $30 fee for reviewing test scores for membership.

Wott????? You mean you actually have to pay to join Mensa in the normal
way (except for Aprili Fool's Month)?
What halfway intelligent person would do that?

That is one reason I am no longer a member. I never was too interested
in Mensa stuff. You'll hav to talk with someone who goes to the
activities to figure out if the due's are worth it.

However, it is interesting how much people will pay for any kind of
label. How much for a fancy car or for the "privelage" of saying
you went to Harvard? a mere what $200,000?
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Alternate site Reply with quote

I heard there is an alternator site ......


--
Joel344
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