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Lymphoma blood test
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Pete
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test for
Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled this, and it
was not obvious, except for one article I found, which was rather confusing,
and did not give the name of the test. Thanks...Pete
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Shylirin
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qmd839n4cso21@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test for
Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled this, and it
was not obvious, except for one article I found, which was rather
confusing,
and did not give the name of the test. Thanks...Pete


Pete,

First I'd say that if you are worried you might have this, SEE A DOCTOR.
Lab tests must be interpreted with the findings from your exam. As far as I
know, there is not one test that is used only to screen for lymphoma. It is
usually detected from a combination of lab results, plus exam findings. The
most common tests (other members please feel free to add any I might miss)
are a CBC, Chem 14 Panel, LDH, and maybe a CD25 and beta-2 microglobulin.
The most definitive test to diagnose lymphoma is a biopsy and pathology
examination of the tissue.

Secondly, please don't take this list to your doctor and demand that he
or she do them. Tell the physician your concerns and let him or her know
you have been researching this. I can't diagnose you or give you medical
advice over the internet, and the exam is essential.

Good luck with the research, and post again if you have more questions.

Shylirin MT(ASCP)
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Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:48 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qmd839n4cso21@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test for
Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled this, and it
was not obvious, except for one article I found, which was rather
confusing,
and did not give the name of the test. Thanks...Pete



Lymphoma means a cancer starting out in the lymph nodes and working it's way
out into surrounding tissue. The most accurate way to diagnose it is by
doing a lymph node biopsy.
One can look at tissue and also check for lymphoma cells or one can also
look in the blood to see if it has spread into the blood.
In checking for lymphoma cells in the blood one can do "flow cytometry" and
look for monoclonal cells based on surface markers. Lymphoma cells are
derived from a single clone of cells by checking cell markers . Normal
lymphocytes are usually polyclonal in origin. Some lymphoma cells are
morphologically distinct enough to be classified as abnormal based on
appearance alone.
The draw back with flow cytometry is sensitivity with 5% or more cells being
the lower limit of detection.
Leukemia/lymphoma panels by flow cytometry are often ordered.
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Pete
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Shylirin and Robert...That's all I do is go to doctors, and have been to
over 75 in my life and have some serious medical problems and I can't get
any help from the damn doctors. I have been studying medicine for 15 years.
I do have enlarged lymph nodes (from scans) which could be related to my
sarcoidosis. It's too complicated to describe my medical problems. I get
regular CD4 counts, CBC's and comprehensive panels and my T4 cells are below
200 much of the time, and I do not have hiv. So please don't tell me to go
to a doctor. I know more about my immune system than my primary physician
does, and he would admit that - trust me. And I have been to infectious
disease doc and oncologist/hematologist and got s**t. Could not get
radiologists to show me the large nodes and the radiologist from two years
ago read my scan wrong and I can prove it. The nodes are large and
apparently unchanged from two years ago (which is good), but the damn
radiologist two years ago said no adenopathy. I told them all that and they
don't say anything. It's bullshit. And I have had too many catscans in my
life and believe they have messed me up.

I read in a ng that there was a simple blood test for that would detect
lymphoma (the person left the group, but I will write him and ask anyway).
Is there such a test or not. I will also call my local lab and ask them.

All I could find was this site
http://www.ramazziniusa.org/geneticprofiles.htm., but it talks about details
but does not give the name of the test, and sounds like it is still in the
developmental stage (in Italy). Could you check it out and get back to me.
I feel like I am dying as I write this and this is not the kind of thing you
can go to the ER for. I am currently having serious urological and rectal
problems (no indication of prostate cancer), and uro's can't help me, and I
have bad malaise. I have been to all the appropriate doctors and have had
all kinds of scans and blood tests. My main blood problem is my lymphocytes
and specifically the T4 cells like I mentioned. I just found out about the
deficiency in 2002 but could have had it for many years.

Robert, in your response you mention a Leukemia/lymphoma panel by flow
cytometry (I believe that is the same technique used for my CD counts - they
have to send my blood to Mayo clinic for them). What is the name of the
test (e.g. for my CD4 counts - all you have to write is "CD4 count" for the
special test). Would my doctor write "Lymphoma panel". Is the leukemia
panel separate. The damn oncologist never even did a bone marrow biopsy
(she said there was nothing wrong with my bone marrow - but I don't know how
she could state that). And she never suggested any kind of lymphoma or
leukemia panel - I can't explain it all - it would take to long. I am done
with her. And I am not volunteering for a biopsy which has risk and a lot
of radiation and I don't know if I could get anyone to order it anyway. But
damn it a blood test is simple.

Please let me know if there is a simple blood test like the site I gave you
talks about (that a doctor can order - i.e. not a research and development
test) for lymphoma (whether it be a single test or a series of tests as part
of a panel). If all you know about is the lymphoma panel (Robert), please
state so, and verify that there is also a leukemia panel, and that they are
two separate panels. It sounds like the R&D test over in Italy may be more
accurate than the 5% (or more) you mentioned Robert. Thanks...Pete

Pete wrote:
Quote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test
for Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled
this, and it was not obvious, except for one article I found, which
was rather confusing, and did not give the name of the test. Thanks...Pete
Back to top
JEDilworth
medicine forum addict


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Two techs have told you how lymphoma is usually diagnosed. There is no
reason to take out your frustration with your doctors on them. If you
have been to 75 docs how would you expect anyone to diagnose you over
the internet? Techs do not do the diagnosing - the doctors do that.

There IS no simple test for lymphoma. Whoever told you that is telling
you a lot of BS.

Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qpb5dgr597dd0@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Shylirin and Robert...That's all I do is go to doctors, and have been
to
over 75 in my life and have some serious medical problems and I can't
get
any help from the damn doctors.
Back to top
Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
What you are talking about I haven't got a clue. We all told you how
lymphoma is diagnosed.
Lymphoma in the blood (leukemic phase) is a late finding as is lymphoma in
the bone marrow.

This is what I was talking about.

http://health.allrefer.com/health/cell-surface-antigen-studies-b-cell-leukemia-lymphoma-panel-info.html
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Manky Badger
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qpb5dgr597dd0@corp.supernews.com...

Quote:
Shylirin and Robert...That's all I do is go to doctors, and have been to
over 75 in my life and have some serious medical problems and I can't get
any help from the damn doctors.

Hmmm - one of you and 75 of them. I wonder which group is correct?

Quote:
I have been studying medicine for 15 years.

And what qualifications have you received during this time?

Quote:
I do have enlarged lymph nodes (from scans) which could be related to my
sarcoidosis. It's too complicated to describe my medical problems.

For who?

Quote:
I get regular CD4 counts, CBC's and comprehensive panels and my T4 cells
are below 200 much of the time, and I do not have hiv. So please don't
tell me to go to a doctor. I know more about my immune system than my
primary physician does, and he would admit that - trust me.

So you would know if you had a lymphoma!

Quote:
And I have been to infectious disease doc and oncologist/hematologist and
got s**t. Could not get radiologists to show me the large nodes and the
radiologist from two years ago read my scan wrong and I can prove it.

Then do so and sue for negligence.

Quote:
The nodes are large and apparently unchanged from two years ago (which is
good), but the damn radiologist two years ago said no adenopathy. I told
them all that and they don't say anything. It's bullshit. And I have had
too many catscans in my life and believe they have messed me up.

Do elaborate

Quote:
I read in a ng that there was a simple blood test for that would detect
lymphoma (the person left the group, but I will write him and ask anyway).

You read wrongly

Quote:
My main blood problem is my lymphocytes and specifically the T4 cells like
I mentioned. I just found out about the deficiency in 2002 but could
have had it for many years.

Specifically what's wrong?

Quote:
And I am not volunteering for a biopsy which has risk and a lot
of radiation

WTF ?

Quote:
But damn it a blood test is simple.

Oh yes - any simpleton can do a blood test.
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Shylirin
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qpb5dgr597dd0@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Shylirin and Robert...That's all I do is go to doctors, and have been to
over 75 in my life and have some serious medical problems and I can't get
any help from the damn doctors. I have been studying medicine for 15
years.
I do have enlarged lymph nodes (from scans) which could be related to my
sarcoidosis. It's too complicated to describe my medical problems. I get
regular CD4 counts, CBC's and comprehensive panels and my T4 cells are
below
200 much of the time, and I do not have hiv. So please don't tell me to
go
to a doctor.

Sorry, I have to tell you that. I am NOT a physician, and as such cannot
practice medicine. Most labs will not do a test unless you have a
physician's order for that test. I can't diagnose you or give you medical
advice without incurring legal liability and the chance I will lose my
certification. As I value my job and career, I will continue to tell you to
see a professional.

I know more about my immune system than my primary physician
Quote:
does, and he would admit that - trust me. And I have been to infectious
disease doc and oncologist/hematologist and got s**t. Could not get
radiologists to show me the large nodes and the radiologist from two years
ago read my scan wrong and I can prove it. The nodes are large and
apparently unchanged from two years ago (which is good), but the damn
radiologist two years ago said no adenopathy. I told them all that and
they
don't say anything. It's bullshit. And I have had too many catscans in
my
life and believe they have messed me up.

?????
Quote:

I read in a ng that there was a simple blood test for that would detect
lymphoma (the person left the group, but I will write him and ask anyway).
Is there such a test or not. I will also call my local lab and ask them.

All I could find was this site
http://www.ramazziniusa.org/geneticprofiles.htm., but it talks about
details
but does not give the name of the test, and sounds like it is still in the
developmental stage (in Italy). Could you check it out and get back to
me.
I feel like I am dying as I write this and this is not the kind of thing
you
can go to the ER for. I am currently having serious urological and rectal
problems (no indication of prostate cancer), and uro's can't help me, and
I
have bad malaise. I have been to all the appropriate doctors and have had
all kinds of scans and blood tests. My main blood problem is my
lymphocytes
and specifically the T4 cells like I mentioned. I just found out about
the
deficiency in 2002 but could have had it for many years.

The CDK9 and Cyclin T1 tests appear to be still in the research phase. I
could not find any non-research lab performing this test. Also, this seems
to be the only study on the topic. You could call the university and see if
they would take you as a test subject, but otherwise, the test has not been
FDA approved, or even verified by repeat studies. I would take this with a
grain of salt until it is proven with another study.

Quote:

Robert, in your response you mention a Leukemia/lymphoma panel by flow
cytometry (I believe that is the same technique used for my CD counts -
they
have to send my blood to Mayo clinic for them). What is the name of the
test (e.g. for my CD4 counts - all you have to write is "CD4 count" for
the
special test). Would my doctor write "Lymphoma panel". Is the leukemia
panel separate. The damn oncologist never even did a bone marrow biopsy
(she said there was nothing wrong with my bone marrow - but I don't know
how
she could state that).

If you had a bone marrow problem, by now you probably should have seen
something on a CBC. Since your results are presumably normal given your low
CD4 count, then she can (in all probability) tell you that with a high
degree of certainty. Also, since lymphoma is a cancer of the LYMPH NODES,
unless the lymphoma is advanced you wouldn't find it in the marrow anyway.
I understand your frustration at not having a reason for your symptoms, but
a look at the larger picture is important here. You stated you have studied
medicine for 15 years, yet you don't understand how a trained oncologist
could tell you there was nothing wrong with your marrow. This is basic
medical study of what a CBC tells you. Just because you may not understand,
does not mean the physician is wrong. And before you say it, no, I am not
"on their side".

Robert, thanks for the flow cytometry catch... I forgot about that one!

And she never suggested any kind of lymphoma or
Quote:
leukemia panel - I can't explain it all - it would take to long. I am
done
with her. And I am not volunteering for a biopsy which has risk and a lot
of radiation and I don't know if I could get anyone to order it anyway.
But
damn it a blood test is simple.

Ok, a biopsy involves putting a needle in a lymph node and pulling out some
material, or it could involve taking out one node with a simple surgery. My
husband had this done. It doesn't involve radiation with any procedure I'm
familiar with. I have no idea where you got that information. Also, blood
testing isn't the simple way out. You can choose the best method (biopsy),
or you can choose an assortment of blood tests (less sensitive to finding
lymphoma). This is your choice, and you can't blame a physician for "not
finding" a lymphoma if you don't make the best choice.

Quote:
Please let me know if there is a simple blood test like the site I gave
you
talks about (that a doctor can order - i.e. not a research and development
test) for lymphoma (whether it be a single test or a series of tests as
part
of a panel). If all you know about is the lymphoma panel (Robert), please
state so, and verify that there is also a leukemia panel, and that they
are
two separate panels. It sounds like the R&D test over in Italy may be
more
accurate than the 5% (or more) you mentioned Robert. Thanks...Pete

Again, there is no simple blood test for lymphoma that I know of. Period.
If I remember correctly, in order to do flow cytometry for lymphoma or
leukemia, a specifically tailored panel is selected based on the morphology
and clinical characteristics of an already-suspected disease. In other
words, they have to have abnormal leukemia or lymphoma cells they have
already SEEN in order to get the right test done. If you don't have a
biopsy and there aren't any cells showing up in your blood, then trying to
do flow is like trying to hit a target in the dark. Robert, please let me
know if I am misremembering my info.

Good Luck,
Shylirin
Quote:
Pete wrote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test
for Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled
this, and it was not obvious, except for one article I found, which
was rather confusing, and did not give the name of the test.
Thanks...Pete

Back to top
Shylirin
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qrnfs18npjmc7@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Thanks guys...I can see you have no experience with doctors, and there is
a
hell of a lot of stuff they don't know, and you indeed do have to study
your
disease/condition. A lot of them are total assholes. You could have at
least commented on the site I gave you about the blood tests over in
Italy.


You could have at least remembered that this is the Christmas holiday and
that perhaps we have other things to do than to read an article for you.
For heaven's sakes, it's only been ONE day since you posted the link!

As medical technologists, I would beg to differ that we have no experience
with doctors. All I do is work with doctors and nurses (and patients, of
course) regarding testing, orders, billing... you name it. I agree that
you, as a patient, should study your condition. And no, there is a lot that
physicians don't know, and some of them are indeed not very professional.
But there are a lot of good ones out there too, and if you've seen 75, I
would bet that there have been more than a couple of highly intelligent,
competent physicians in the group.

Best of luck,

Shylirin
Quote:
Pete wrote:
Shylirin and Robert...That's all I do is go to doctors, and have been
to over 75 in my life and have some serious medical problems and I
can't get any help from the damn doctors. I have been studying
medicine for 15 years. I do have enlarged lymph nodes (from scans)
which could be related to my sarcoidosis. It's too complicated to
describe my medical problems. I get regular CD4 counts, CBC's and
comprehensive panels and my T4 cells are below 200 much of the time,
and I do not have hiv. So please don't tell me to go to a doctor. I
know more about my immune system than my primary physician does, and
he would admit that - trust me. And I have been to infectious
disease doc and oncologist/hematologist and got s**t. Could not get
radiologists to show me the large nodes and the radiologist from two
years ago read my scan wrong and I can prove it. The nodes are large
and apparently unchanged from two years ago (which is good), but the
damn radiologist two years ago said no adenopathy. I told them all
that and they don't say anything. It's bullshit. And I have had too
many catscans in my life and believe they have messed me up.
I read in a ng that there was a simple blood test for that would
detect lymphoma (the person left the group, but I will write him and
ask anyway). Is there such a test or not. I will also call my local
lab and ask them.
All I could find was this site
http://www.ramazziniusa.org/geneticprofiles.htm., but it talks about
details but does not give the name of the test, and sounds like it is
still in the developmental stage (in Italy). Could you check it out
and get back to me. I feel like I am dying as I write this and this
is not the kind of thing you can go to the ER for. I am currently
having serious urological and rectal problems (no indication of
prostate cancer), and uro's can't help me, and I have bad malaise. I
have been to all the appropriate doctors and have had all kinds of
scans and blood tests. My main blood problem is my lymphocytes and
specifically the T4 cells like I mentioned. I just found out about
the deficiency in 2002 but could have had it for many years.
Robert, in your response you mention a Leukemia/lymphoma panel by flow
cytometry (I believe that is the same technique used for my CD counts
- they have to send my blood to Mayo clinic for them). What is the
name of the test (e.g. for my CD4 counts - all you have to write is
"CD4 count" for the special test). Would my doctor write "Lymphoma
panel". Is the leukemia panel separate. The damn oncologist never
even did a bone marrow biopsy (she said there was nothing wrong with
my bone marrow - but I don't know how she could state that). And she
never suggested any kind of lymphoma or leukemia panel - I can't
explain it all - it would take to long. I am done with her. And I
am not volunteering for a biopsy which has risk and a lot of
radiation and I don't know if I could get anyone to order it anyway. But
damn it a blood test is simple.
Please let me know if there is a simple blood test like the site I
gave you talks about (that a doctor can order - i.e. not a research
and development test) for lymphoma (whether it be a single test or a
series of tests as part of a panel). If all you know about is the
lymphoma panel (Robert), please state so, and verify that there is
also a leukemia panel, and that they are two separate panels. It
sounds like the R&D test over in Italy may be more accurate than the
5% (or more) you mentioned Robert. Thanks...Pete
Pete wrote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test
for Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled
this, and it was not obvious, except for one article I found, which
was rather confusing, and did not give the name of the test.
Thanks...Pete

Back to top
Pete
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Thanks guys...I can see you have no experience with doctors, and there is a
hell of a lot of stuff they don't know, and you indeed do have to study your
disease/condition. A lot of them are total assholes. You could have at
least commented on the site I gave you about the blood tests over in Italy.

Pete wrote:
Quote:
Shylirin and Robert...That's all I do is go to doctors, and have been
to over 75 in my life and have some serious medical problems and I
can't get any help from the damn doctors. I have been studying
medicine for 15 years. I do have enlarged lymph nodes (from scans)
which could be related to my sarcoidosis. It's too complicated to
describe my medical problems. I get regular CD4 counts, CBC's and
comprehensive panels and my T4 cells are below 200 much of the time,
and I do not have hiv. So please don't tell me to go to a doctor. I
know more about my immune system than my primary physician does, and
he would admit that - trust me. And I have been to infectious
disease doc and oncologist/hematologist and got s**t. Could not get
radiologists to show me the large nodes and the radiologist from two
years ago read my scan wrong and I can prove it. The nodes are large
and apparently unchanged from two years ago (which is good), but the
damn radiologist two years ago said no adenopathy. I told them all
that and they don't say anything. It's bullshit. And I have had too
many catscans in my life and believe they have messed me up.
I read in a ng that there was a simple blood test for that would
detect lymphoma (the person left the group, but I will write him and
ask anyway). Is there such a test or not. I will also call my local
lab and ask them.
All I could find was this site
http://www.ramazziniusa.org/geneticprofiles.htm., but it talks about
details but does not give the name of the test, and sounds like it is
still in the developmental stage (in Italy). Could you check it out
and get back to me. I feel like I am dying as I write this and this
is not the kind of thing you can go to the ER for. I am currently
having serious urological and rectal problems (no indication of
prostate cancer), and uro's can't help me, and I have bad malaise. I
have been to all the appropriate doctors and have had all kinds of
scans and blood tests. My main blood problem is my lymphocytes and
specifically the T4 cells like I mentioned. I just found out about
the deficiency in 2002 but could have had it for many years.
Robert, in your response you mention a Leukemia/lymphoma panel by flow
cytometry (I believe that is the same technique used for my CD counts
- they have to send my blood to Mayo clinic for them). What is the
name of the test (e.g. for my CD4 counts - all you have to write is
"CD4 count" for the special test). Would my doctor write "Lymphoma
panel". Is the leukemia panel separate. The damn oncologist never
even did a bone marrow biopsy (she said there was nothing wrong with
my bone marrow - but I don't know how she could state that). And she
never suggested any kind of lymphoma or leukemia panel - I can't
explain it all - it would take to long. I am done with her. And I
am not volunteering for a biopsy which has risk and a lot of
radiation and I don't know if I could get anyone to order it anyway. But
damn it a blood test is simple.
Please let me know if there is a simple blood test like the site I
gave you talks about (that a doctor can order - i.e. not a research
and development test) for lymphoma (whether it be a single test or a
series of tests as part of a panel). If all you know about is the
lymphoma panel (Robert), please state so, and verify that there is
also a leukemia panel, and that they are two separate panels. It
sounds like the R&D test over in Italy may be more accurate than the
5% (or more) you mentioned Robert. Thanks...Pete
Pete wrote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test
for Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled
this, and it was not obvious, except for one article I found, which
was rather confusing, and did not give the name of the test.
Thanks...Pete
Back to top
Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Shylirin" <shylirinsplinter@cox.net> wrote in message

Quote:
Robert, please let me
know if I am misremembering my info.

No I agree with everything you said. I was only replying about a blood test
for lymphoma.
Back to top
Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

"Pete" <pete@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:11qrnfs18npjmc7@corp.supernews.com...
You could have at
Quote:
least commented on the site I gave you about the blood tests over in
Italy.


Pete, we are involved in the clinical laboratory aspect and not the research
arm of testing. We generally let them iron out all the problems before
something is accepted in clinical practice.
Let them experiment with a select few people.
Assume that there are two malignant lymphoma cells in your whole body and
one of them happens to be detected with that new test, what is the next
step?
Any test is always measured within the clinical utility or clinical context.
Sometimes people like to hype their own research for grants.

Just a couple of points or comments on the cite that you had and it is hard
to really read news articles that are not really precise on what is being
done.
From the article you cited.

"The researchers found that by taking a sample of blood and doing
immunohistochemical analysis for the expression of CDK9 and CYCLIN T1"

Immunohistochemical analysis means you get a glass slide of tissue and then
use antibodies and special stains and look at the cells. They tested lymph
tissue and cross checked it for lymphoma by the classic definition.
Immunocytochemistry stains individual cells which is found in blood. The
person who wrote that above doesn't know what he is talking about.

http://www.jhc.org/cgi/content/full/49/6/685

""Basically, this new method is a very powerful tool in determining the
presence of cancer by analyzing these two molecules in the lymphoid tissue,"

Molecules?


The following Pubmed Journal report states that CDK9/cyclin T1 is found in
normal lymphoid tissue, reactive lymph nodes and is not found in mantle cell
and marginal zone lymphomas. It also varies greatly in reactivity in T cell
lymphoproliferative disorders.
If you have a mantle cell lymphoma it can't pick it up and morphology is
still needed along with other surface markers.

"Value of CD23 determination by flow cytometry in differentiating mantle
cell lymphoma from chronic lymphocytic leukemia/small lymphocytic lymphoma."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11764079&dopt=Abstract



J Pathol. 2004 Aug;203(4):946-52. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


CDK9/CYCLIN T1 expression during normal lymphoid differentiation and
malignant transformation.

Bellan C, De Falco G, Lazzi S, Micheli P, Vicidomini S, Schurfeld K, Amato
T, Palumbo A, Bagella L, Sabattini E, Bartolommei S, Hummel M, Pileri S,
Tosi P, Leoncini L, Giordano A.

Department of Human Pathology and Oncology, University of Siena, Italy.

CDK9 is a member of the CDC2-like family of kinases. Its cyclin partners are
members of the CYCLIN T family (T1, T2a, and T2b) and CYCLIN K. The
CDK9/CYCLIN T1 complex is very important in the differentiation programme of
several cell types, controlling specific differentiation pathways. Limited
data are available regarding the expression of CDK9/CYCLIN T1 in
haematopoietic and lymphoid tissues. The aim of this study was to analyse
the expression of the CDK9/CYCLIN T1 complex in lymphoid tissue, in order to
assess its role in B- and T-cell differentiation and lymphomagenesis.
CDK9/CYCLIN T1 expression was found by immunohistochemistry in precursor B
and T cells. In peripheral lymphoid tissues, germinal centre cells and
scattered B- and T-cell blasts in interfollicular areas expressed
CDK9/CYCLIN T1, while mantle cells, plasma cells, and small resting
T-lymphocytes displayed no expression of either molecule. CDK9/CYCLIN T1
expression therefore appears to be related to particular stages of lymphoid
differentiation/activation. CDK9 and CYCLIN T1 were highly expressed in
lymphomas derived from precursor B and T cells, from germinal centre cells,
such as follicular lymphomas, and from activated T cells (ie anaplastic
large cell lymphomas). Hodgkin and Reed-Sternberg cells of classical
Hodgkin's lymphoma also showed strong nuclear staining. Diffuse large
B-cell, Burkitt's lymphomas, and peripheral T-cell lymphomas, among T-cell
lymphoproliferative disorders, showed a wide range of values. No expression
of CDK9 or CYCLIN T1 was detected in mantle cell and marginal zone
lymphomas. However, at the mRNA level, an imbalance in the CDK9/CYCLIN T1
ratio was found in follicular lymphoma and diffuse large B-cell lymphomas
with germinal centre phenotype, and in the cell lines of classical Hodgkin's
lymphomas, Burkitt's lymphomas, and anaplastic large cell lymphoma, in
comparison with reactive lymph nodes. These results suggest that the
CDK9/CYCLIN T1 complex may affect the activation and differentiation
programme of lymphoid cells. The molecular mechanism through which the
CDK9/CYCLIN T1 complex is altered in malignant transformation needs to be
elucidated. Copyright 2004 Pathological Society of Great Britain and Ireland

PMID: 15258998 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Here is a site where you can buy anti-CDK9
http://www.abcam.com/?datasheet=10874

And you have anti-Cyclin T1
http://www.abcam.com/?datasheet=2098

Mix the two together and go do flow cytometry or immunohistochemistry on
tissue or blood smear immunocytochemistry.
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Pete
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Shylirin and Robert...I want to thank you for the time you spent in your
last responses, and I will save them. I have been to many bad doctors in my
life for all of the specialties, and I don't have a lot to show for it.
Currently my urological and rectal problems and the malaise I have are
consuming me, and I can't get any doc's to help me, like I said. I believe
it is all tied in with my immune deficiency.

I was not asking you to diagnose me for sure. I am quite smart medically
and do know more than some of the doctors in many instances, by my studies
(regardless of the sarcasm I received from Manky Badger - and you can not
sue a doctor unless he operates on the wrong side of your body Manky). I
could write books on the incompetence and bad bedside manners of doctors (I
hate the bastards, and only one in ten are good kind caring doctors at
best - the rest of them are just in it for the money and to see how fast
they can move on to the next patient, and if you indicate you research your
disease/condition (even trying to be diplomatic), you may get dismissed. It
sucks.

I understand you work with the doctors and some of them may be your bosses
(and I am sure you know who some of the assholes are), but you need to be on
the patient's side of the bed. I won't be going back to the a*****le
oncologist. The first time I went to her for an opinion on my low CD4
counts, she told me she would do some research and get back to me. She
didn't call me back, so I called her to remind her and she said all she
could find for my T4 cell deficiencies (non hiv) was DiGeorge Syndrome.
Duh!!! I ruled that out immediately after I first found out about my low T4
cell counts from the infectious disease doc in 2002. Apparently she looked
in her pc, just like I did (she may have found a book on T cell
deficiencies, but I doubt it).

There are a bunch of T-cell deficiencies (non hiv) published in a 2000
journal by a French doctor named Alain Fischer (which was copied for my by
another doctor), but that stuff is pure black magic and one in a million
stuff. I will never find out what is causing my T4 cell deficiencies (and I
am certainly am not going to the University of Tennessee or Duke University
where I was told by the same doctor, that the top researchers on
immunological disorders are there). I know I will get cancer someday if I
don't already have it, since the cellular immune system is purported to
fight tumor cells as well as viruses.

Pertaining to my enlarged lymph nodes, the biggest one (2.5cm) is in the
retrocrural area of my chest but a large one also showed up in way of my
left kidney. They would be hard to get at without flouroscopic guidance
like I implied before. Like I told you I couldn't get the radiologist to
show them to me. I met with the head radiologist and he just said the
retrocrural ones were unchanged from two years ago (which I am quite capable
of reading in the report, and already knew), and didn't show them to me. I
told him the radiologist two years ago (who is gone now) said no adenopathy,
and he had nothing to say.

It could be related to my sarcoid (per my pulmonologist who is another bad
doctor) like I said, and I asked him to show me the nodes, and even took him
the disc, and he said he wasn't a radiologist. That's bullshit. In the old
days gastro's and pulmo's used to read catscans and x-rays all the time and
ask for them. My old pulmo (good doctor where I used to live) used to go
over them with me all the time, and said I could read them as good as he
could Smile . Nowadays, all the damn gastro's and pulmo's do, is read the
damn radiologist report.

I still don't understand why my low CD4 counts couldn't be related to a bone
marrow problem, even though the other CBC counts (besides lymphocytes) may
be within the ranges, or close. My immune system is working (but very
halfass - I have flulike malaise all the time), since I had a candida,
mumps, saline (the control) skin test in Jan/03, and the mumps and candida
showed a reaction, which means my good old T cells remembered them.

I am a retired engineer and live by myself in a small community and don't
have any one to help me, so going to the tertiary care centers in Baltimore
is difficult at best and basically out of the question (plus I have been
there three times in the past for other things with nothing to show for it).

I appreciate your time, and certainly was not, and am not asking you for a
diagnosis (just my original question about a blood test(s) for lymphoma).
You have answered my questions. I hope you had a nice Christmas. Thank
you...Pete


Pete wrote:
Quote:
Hi everyone,

Can someone tell me if there is a simple blood test, that will test
for Lymphoma, and if there is, what is the name of it. I googled
this, and it was not obvious, except for one article I found, which
was rather confusing, and did not give the name of the test. Thanks...Pete
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Arcie Mizelle
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Pete,

Check with Quest Diagnostics. They have a Lymphoma/Leukemia Profile that
you might want to have your doctor order. They also have several different
Flow Cytometry profiles that might prove useful. These are expensive and
you do need to target the selection to what disease you are suspecting,
otherwise the bill could be outrageous and some testing will be redundant.

I hope this helps a little.

Arcie
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JEDilworth
medicine forum addict


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: Re: Lymphoma blood test Reply with quote

Please also be aware that, if these tests are not clinically indicated
from previous tests, i.e. a CBC (complete blood count) and/or other
hematological and histological tests and biopsies, my guess is that
insurance WILL NOT pay for them. Also, if these tests are submitted to
be billed through your medical insurance, there is a big database in
Boston that tracks all of this stuff for the insurance industry. If you
ever try to get life or private medical insurance in the future, this
database will be checked to possibly rate you/deny you on getting future
policies.

I've told people who have asked me in the past, about HIV testing
(example only) to pay cash for this type of testing, so the DB in Boston
can't track you. Genetic testing would come under this also.

Just my 0.02.

Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology
(I used to be a marketing rep and have talked with my life insurance man
about these issues)


"Arcie Mizelle" <arciemizelle@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:nu7Of.16445$qg.3521@news01.roc.ny...
Quote:
Pete,

Check with Quest Diagnostics. They have a Lymphoma/Leukemia Profile
that
you might want to have your doctor order. They also have several
different
Flow Cytometry profiles that might prove useful. These are expensive
and
you do need to target the selection to what disease you are
suspecting,
otherwise the bill could be outrageous and some testing will be
redundant.
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