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Larry
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 151
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 Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Painful bone marrow biopsy
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Steph wrote:
| Quote: | "Ed" <myspace1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UnsOf.100$sL2.40@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
I have already have this procedure performed four times by three different
Physicians. All of them were very painful. They just use what the dentists
use to have the
mouth numbed to get teeth extracted. It would be great if someone knew a
way to reduce the pain as much as possible.
Ed
"Steph" <steph@vancouvers.island> wrote in message
news:f%rOf.104453$B94.90751@pd7tw3no...
"Ed" <myspace1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:VHnOf.6922$S25.6208@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Does anyone know why a bone marrow biopsy can't be performed while the
patient is under at least partial anesthesia? The procedure is awfully
painful when they get into the pelvis bone. Has anyone had it with some
kind of anesthesia? Thanks in advance.
Ed
It's painless under local when done properly
And I repeat, it's painless under local anaesthesia when done properly.
Steph ... as someone who has a pretty high pain threshold, I must |
disagree with you strongly. There is just no way that a BMB can be
completely painless under local anesthesia. Absolutely no way.
Larry E. |
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Robert Cohen
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Painful bone marrow biopsy
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re: repetitive redundant reiterative posts
apologia for snafu glitchia |
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Robert Cohen
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Painful bone marrow biopsy
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re: repetitive redundant reiterative posts
apologia for snafu glitchia |
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Steph
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Painful bone marrow biopsy
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"J" <studras@anon.inv> wrote in message
news:440AA82F.91CBA265@execulink.com...
| Quote: | Steph wrote:
"Ed" <myspace1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
..
I have already have this procedure performed four times by three
different
Physicians. All of them were very painful. They just use what the
dentists
use to have the
mouth numbed to get teeth extracted. It would be great if someone knew
a
way to reduce the pain as much as possible.
Ed
[...]
It's painless under local when done properly
And I repeat, it's painless under local anaesthesia when done properly.
And he's telling you it's not.
|
How do you know he had it done properly?
I've done hundreds. I always ask the patient if it was painful. About 10%
say it was.
Our haematologist here who does most of our marrows now is known as
"Painless Brian" |
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Steph
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Painful bone marrow biopsy
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"J" <studras@anon.inv> wrote in message
news:440AA82F.91CBA265@execulink.com...
| Quote: | Steph wrote:
"Ed" <myspace1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
..
I have already have this procedure performed four times by three
different
Physicians. All of them were very painful. They just use what the
dentists
use to have the
mouth numbed to get teeth extracted. It would be great if someone knew
a
way to reduce the pain as much as possible.
Ed
[...]
It's painless under local when done properly
And I repeat, it's painless under local anaesthesia when done properly.
And he's telling you it's not.
|
How do you know he had it done properly?
I've done hundreds. I always ask the patient if it was painful. About 10%
say it was.
Our haematologist here who does most of our marrows now is known as
"Painless Brian" |
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maxc246@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Iron (Fe) is essential for the proliferation of cancer cells
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I have yet to fully figure out why you keep posting studies like this
in a nutrition group. Are you saying that we should stop eating foods
containing iron? If we go without iron, we get iron deficiency anemia.
Let that go for too long and we die. Hemoglobin can not be produced
without iron. Oxygen can not be distributed throughout the body
without hemoglobin.
So, what are you saying, man?
Max. |
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J
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 612
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:28 am Post subject:
Drug company that put 2 men in Coma testing drugs in India
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visualseeplus wrote:
| Quote: | World News: Boston's Parexel to tap India's potential in clinical
research
29-April-2004
New York, Boston-based Parexel International Corp., a $615 million
biopharmaceutical outsourcing company, said Thursday it has entered
into a tie-up with Synchron Research Services of Ahmedabad to tap
India's emerging potential in the area of clinical research
outsourcing.
Under the alliance, Nasdaq-listed Parexel will leverage Synchron's
capabilities to benefit biopharmaceutical clients with expanded
geographic coverage and patient recruitment capabilities in India, the
company said in a statement.
The alliance also provides Synchron's customers with access to the
clinical trial expertise, advanced technologies, and project
management skills of the Parexel, whose operations spread across 37
countries.
"The collaboration with Synchron expands our global clinical research
services into regions that should help expedite the drug development
process for our clients," said Parexel chairman and chief executive
Josef H. von Rickenbach.
"Our alliance with an established company headquartered in India
underscores Parexel's commitment to providing clients with
comprehensive drug development services in emerging markets."
Commenting on the alliance, Shivprakash, chief executive officer of
Synchron Research, said the company will now be able to offer clients
an extensive portfolio of clinical development solutions
--------------------
Two Men Remain in Coma After Drug Trial
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060321/ap_on_he_me/britain_drug_trial_2
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By TARIQ PANJA, Associated Press Writer Tue Mar 21, 9:20 AM ET
LONDON - They were chosen because they were fit and healthy, but minutes
after being injected with a test drug designed to combat leukemia and
other diseases, the men went into convulsions as their internal organs
began to fail.
Two men were still in a coma Tuesday and four others were seriously ill
but improving after participating in the trial last week. The drug sent
the men into vomiting fits; they removed their shirts in panic as their
bodies seized up with pain.
Fresh questions are being asked about the safety of clinical trials and
whether the tests draw vulnerable people with promises of pay. Parexel,
one of the makers of the drug, paid eight men 2,330 pounds (US$4,092) each
to participate, said Raste Khan, 23, one of two patients who had been
given a placebo.
He described the gruesome scene in the hospital ward.
"It felt like we stepped into some sort of horror film," Khan told The
Associated Press. "The three other men in my ward started vomiting, then
they began to fall in and out of consciousness. The person on my left was
begging doctors to help him. I was really scared and was just waiting for
it to start happening to me."
After taking the drug the men lapsed into comas as their organs failed,
forcing doctors to put them on organ support machines, said Dr. Ganesh
Suntharalingam, who was treating the men at Northwick Park hospital in
London.
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency — which authorized
the trial — said there was nothing unusual about the results of laboratory
and animal tests on the drug or the methodology for the human trials
provided by Waltham, Massachusetts-based Parexel and the other maker,
TeGenero AG of Wuerzburg, Germany.
TeGenero's chief scientific officer, Thomas Hanke, said the drug TGN1412 —
designed for the treatment of autoimmune and inflammatory diseases and
leukemia — had been tested on rabbits and monkeys with no "drug-related
adverse events."
MHRA spokeswoman Sara Coakley said the reaction of the six study
participants was "completely unheard of."
"There could have been a manufacturing problem, some form of
contamination, a problem with the drug's administration, or ... it could
be that (defects with the drug) just didn't show up in preclinical data
from the tests on primates," she said. "It will be weeks before we find
out exactly what happened."
Some experts, however, said the six men should not have received doses
within such a short period.
"The idea you give six people an injection at the same time is unusual,"
said Kate Law, head of clinical trials for Cancer Research U.K. —
Britain's largest cancer charity. "In any of our tests we never test drugs
on the volunteers all at the same time."
David Glover, former chief medical officer at biotech company Cambridge
Antibody Technology, said testing antibody drugs like TGN1412 must go on
despite the tragedy. He cited drugs like Herceptin, which has made a big
impact on the treatment of breast cancer.
"We need to understand the issues we face and look at creative solutions,"
said Glover.
Most phase one trials — in which the drug is tested on humans for the
first time — are conducted in industrialized nations. In Britain, the MHRA
authorizes around 350 such tests per year.
Complicated health regulations and the need for sophisticated
infrastructure usually prevent such trials from being conducted in
developing nations. Phase two and three trials, in which the drug is
tested on patients in need of treatment, can take place in poor countries.
The procedure for selecting healthy volunteers for phase one trials has
also caused controversy in Britain in the aftermath of the men's
hospitalization.
Parexel recruited the eight men for what should have been a two week
trial, said Khan. They were to stay for three nights, and then attend 11
follow up days.
"It worries me that you could earn a living from being a participant,"
said Ray Noble a medical ethicist at University College London. "It might
blind people to the obvious potential pitfalls of participating in too
many trials."
Others say that without offering financial inducements it would be
extremely difficult to get subjects for the essential phase one tests.
"It's a fine line. How do we attract people to do something for which
there is not much reward?" said Derbyshire. |
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J
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 612
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:32 am Post subject:
Re: Drug company that put 2 men in Coma testing drugs in India
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J wrote:
| Quote: | visualseeplus wrote:
Two Men Remain in Coma After Drug Trial
|
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4813478.stm
Drugs volunteer's 'living hell'
Raste Khan said that the test ward in north-west London became a "living hell"
as the men spasmed in agony.
Two remain critically ill but four have shown signs of improvement.
A solicitor representing one man said it was not clear if successful animal
tests had been previously held.
Some screamed out that their heads felt like they were going to explode
Ann Alexander, whose 29-year-old client is on a life support machine, said:
"There is confusion about whether the drug had actually been tested
successfully and safely on animals before the tests on these volunteers."
She said the "problem" needed to be "investigated urgently".
"The other six have obviously gone through a terrible time. I don't know what
their families are going through."
Mr Khan from Barry, near Cardiff, was given a placebo, and spoke to the BBC
courtesy of the Sun newspaper.
He said: "It was Russian roulette. There were eight of us. Two of us were
really lucky."
He added: "They must be going through a terrible time at the moment. I really
hope they're going to get through this.
"All we can do is hope they're going to be fine."
He said that luckily he felt OK after being given his injection but that the
others on the trial began falling "like dominos".
'Significant change'
"The gentleman on my left said, 'I've got really bad headache pains.' He said
he was hot and then he started hyper-ventilating.
"Then they tried to calm him down and then he passed out and came back to
consciousness, he vomited and then they got a big bin liner from somewhere for
him to vomit in," he said.
Then he described how another volunteer became unwell and said he could not
control himself and needed the toilet.
"Everything was unplugged from him, he stood up, took several steps and he
fainted. He was quite a big guy, it took quite a few nurses to help him up."
'They say he needs a miracle'
Earlier, Mr Khan had told the Sun newspaper: "Some screamed out that their
heads felt like they were going to explode."
Clinical Director of Intensive care Ganesh Suntharalingham at Northwick Park
Hospital said: "Of the six patients admitted to critical care, the four who
are seriously unwell are continuing to show signs of improvement but it is
still early days.
"The other two men remain critical and it could be a while until they show
significant change."
One of the critically ill men has been named as student Ryan Wilson, 21, of
Highbury, north London.
Another who was taken seriously ill has been confirmed as a New Zealander. The
New Zealand High Commission said he was "conscious and has spoken to hospital
staff".
'No signs of problems'
It was the first time the drug TGN1412, designed to treat conditions such as
rheumatoid arthritis and leukaemia, had been tested on humans.
American company Parexel, which ran the trial, said it had followed
recommended guidelines.
TeGenero, which manufactures the anti-inflammatory drug, said it apologised to
the sick men's families and said the medicine had showed no signs of problems
in earlier tests.
Chief scientific officer Thomas Hanke added the company's first concern now
was making sure the patients got the best treatment possible and to support
the families
Scotland Yard said officers are talking to the Medicines and Healthcare
products Regulatory Agency and doctors.
The MHRA is looking at whether the reaction was caused by a manufacturing
problem, contamination, a dosing error or whether it was some "completely
unanticipated side-effect of the drug in humans". |
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madiba
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Drug company that put 2 men in Coma testing drugs in India
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J <analyse@invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | visualseeplus wrote:
World News: Boston's Parexel to tap India's potential in clinical
research
29-April-2004
New York, Boston-based Parexel International Corp., a $615 million
biopharmaceutical outsourcing company, said Thursday it has entered
into a tie-up with Synchron Research Services of Ahmedabad to tap
India's emerging potential in the area of clinical research
outsourcing.
|
I expected this to happen about a minute after I read about the trial
'mishap' in the local papers. I was at a big meeting on EGFR inhibitors
in Amsterdam at the time where it wasnt even mentioned BTW.
This is cold-blooded outsourcing to the third world, where life is cheap
and you have the courts in your pocket as a multinational...
--
madiba |
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J
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 612
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Drug company that put 2 men in Coma testing drugs in India
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madiba wrote:
| Quote: | J <analyse@invalid> wrote:
visualseeplus wrote:
World News: Boston's Parexel to tap India's potential in clinical
research
29-April-2004
New York, Boston-based Parexel International Corp., a $615 million
biopharmaceutical outsourcing company, said Thursday it has entered
into a tie-up with Synchron Research Services of Ahmedabad to tap
India's emerging potential in the area of clinical research
outsourcing.
I expected this to happen about a minute after I read about the trial
'mishap' in the local papers. I was at a big meeting on EGFR inhibitors
in Amsterdam at the time where it wasnt even mentioned BTW.
This is cold-blooded outsourcing to the third world, where life is cheap
and you have the courts in your pocket as a multinational...
|
This happened in UK. The names were foreign but it was a UK hospital they
were (or are) in.
But I know what you mean. I posted this last May
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301268.html>
The study also looked at the economics of clinical trials, which are
becoming less lucrative for doctors and researchers. Reflecting that
decline, more clinical trials are being conducted at cheaper sites abroad,
and in southern states rather than in more expensive northern states.
Between 1994 and 2004, the proportion of principal investigators working in
the South grew by nearly 20 percent, to more than 40 percent of the nation's
total. During the same time, the proportion active in the Northeast declined
from 23 to 19 percent of the total.
The study found that the number of female principal investigators is small
and getting smaller. Although 28 percent of all board-certified physicians
were women in 2003, only 12 percent of clinical-trial investigators were
women, a lower percentage than in 1992.
The number of American sites where clinical trials were underway declined
from about 51,000 in 2001 to 48,000 in 2003. During that same period, the
number of FDA-approved investigational drug studies in all phases of
research rose from about 3,900 to 4,500 -- but with less research being done
at U.S. sites.
Getz said his work and conversations with drug industry officials indicate
that new clinical trials are increasingly being done abroad. He said that
although ongoing clinical trials in the United States are generally not
being moved overseas, the lower costs abroad -- and the often greater
professional and public interest -- are leading many companies to set up new
trials in Eastern Europe, South America and India./end quote.
On the one hand they get access to medicines that they might not otherwise
be able to afford, but I have to wonder if many of them have the smarts (or
education) to even understand their own cancer, much less the goals of
various clinical trials or the paperwork that they are signing.
By the way, since you're back, are you fielding questions as to how long a
person can live with certain cancers? (and no treatment). Been getting some
pesky ones on alt.support.cancer.
I would refer them here, if you want to guesstimate.
J |
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madiba
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:37 am Post subject:
Re: Drug company that put 2 men in Coma testing drugs in India
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J <analyse@invalid> wrote:
| Quote: |
By the way, since you're back, are you fielding questions as to how long a
person can live with certain cancers? (and no treatment). Been getting some
pesky ones on alt.support.cancer.
I would refer them here, if you want to guesstimate.
J
I'd rather not, thanks.. |
Good documentation (CTs, definitive staging) is rare in the alt. groups.
--
madiba
PS Steph on holiday? |
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Araik Margarian
medicine forum addict
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Update
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"J" <analyse@invalid> wrote in message
news:442EC0C6.E9A463C7@execulink.com
| Quote: | Araik Margarian wrote:
"J" <analyse@invalid> wrote in message
Araik Margarian wrote:
"J" <analyse@invalid> wrote in message
Last radio: 6 February, 2006. (72 Gu)
Using Saline for nose congestion; not very effective.
Ask about this Araik
[...]
But that article states that
"... pseudoephedrine only relieves nasal congestion commonly
associated with colds or allergies. ..."
Guess you're right, Araik.
I'm trying to solve problem that hopefully time will solve.
because I know how annoying it is to not be able to breathe
through nostril...
.[..]
So, by-by healing, by-by working, by-by getting married,
by-by having kids, by-by writing books, by-by American
Dream? by- by life, by-by?
No, I did not mean to imply that.
Hospice is there for the dying.
They are also there to help with symptoms for chronic care,
not dying patients.
Then there should be two different words.
Well, there aren't (2 words). Sorry.
According to the 2-3 months,you've only got a month (or so)
left
In my good mood, I liked to speak with double meaning too
and hopefully things will soon start to improve.
God, please listen to this so-called J!
I hope so, for you, Dear Araik.
J
Thanks, Dear J.
P.S. BTW, where is our 4th NPC person?
According to my calculation, he was starting RT and chemo Feb
13th for 6 weeks, so he's probably just finishing that
regimen, probably experiencing a lot of what you've been
experiencing.
But he continues with one injection per month (of cisplatin &
5FU each month - April, May and June).
Sending healing, feeling better, curing vibes for you both.
Regards
so-called J
|
Although today is lie and joke day (as if other days are all about truth and
seriousness),
I believe on sincerity of your wishes and wish you the same benevolent
things.
--
Regards,
Araik Margarian
http://journals.aol.com/aramargar1/MyAmericanDream/
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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J
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 612
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| Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject:
OT Re: Drug company that put 2 men in Coma testing drugs in India
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madiba wrote:
| Quote: | PS Steph on holiday?
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Sorry. I missed your question.
Yes - he said he'll be back mid April.
J |
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alex
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Cancer therapy based on anatomical location may soon be obsolete
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Cancer research is now moving to looking at the molecular level. However,
drugs that target the molecular differences between tumor and normal cells -
the altered genes or proteins or corrupted pathways - promise to be less
toxic and more effective than our current drugs.
Therefore you are treating at the cellular level verses the effected organ. |
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Steph
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Cancer therapy based on anatomical location may soon be obsolete
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"J" <analyse@invalid> wrote in message
news:4449F118.83AF68C8@execulink.com...
| Quote: | This was posted to the prostate cancer newsgroup. i don't get it.
Therapies are supposed to be aimed at result of pathology...
Steph,, what's this saying please. Better pathology testing or testing of
more locations (when mets are present ) or ???
J
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It's just the most recent edition of "Soon all cancer treatment other than
chemotherapy will be obsolete" bollox that we've been hearing out of US
"experts" for 40 years.......... |
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