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Robert
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700
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 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1119721436.355214.37130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Apologies; the poster links don't seem to work. I'll get it sorted.
Presently DTCA is illegal in Canada. Pharma finds looholes, and there
is a lot of "leak" across the border as we get US magazines,
newspapers, and television. (We know a lot about you...!)
|
That brings up a good point about what Canada does.
I find it interesting that Canada does not allow ads but the drug use
consumption is equal to or greater than in the US. If you take Vioxx, the
Canadian and US consumption was pretty similar.
Canada has price controls on drugs and buys many drugs on bulk with price
reductions and saving which are very cost saving.
Vioxx WAS 50-70% cheaper in Canada.
New drugs fill a void which is what drives it's sells. Americans can see it
advertised on American TV and then buy cheaply from Canada and Canadians
themselves can buy cheaply.
The Canadian government and government officials are complicit on providing
dangerous drugs without a long safety record. I also wonder why Zee never
mentions that.
The Marist take over of health care with the banning of private medicine has
make things worse. It has made death acceptable when waiting in line by
Marist apologist in that country.
The Canadian Supreme Court has stated as much.
Like any Marist system the target of corruption becomes the government
officials and I guess the drug manufacturers only have to deal with
government officials in Canada and not the people so they don't need ads in
Canada. |
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William Wagner
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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In article <ZbadndQjKdA5ISDfRVn-1g@got.net>,
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1119721436.355214.37130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Apologies; the poster links don't seem to work. I'll get it sorted.
Presently DTCA is illegal in Canada. Pharma finds looholes, and there
is a lot of "leak" across the border as we get US magazines,
newspapers, and television. (We know a lot about you...!)
That brings up a good point about what Canada does.
I find it interesting that Canada does not allow ads but the drug use
consumption is equal to or greater than in the US. If you take Vioxx, the
Canadian and US consumption was pretty similar.
Canada has price controls on drugs and buys many drugs on bulk with price
reductions and saving which are very cost saving.
Vioxx WAS 50-70% cheaper in Canada.
New drugs fill a void which is what drives it's sells. Americans can see it
advertised on American TV and then buy cheaply from Canada and Canadians
themselves can buy cheaply.
The Canadian government and government officials are complicit on providing
dangerous drugs without a long safety record. I also wonder why Zee never
mentions that.
The Marist take over of health care with the banning of private medicine has
make things worse. It has made death acceptable when waiting in line by
Marist apologist in that country.
The Canadian Supreme Court has stated as much.
Like any Marist system the target of corruption becomes the government
officials and I guess the drug manufacturers only have to deal with
government officials in Canada and not the people so they don't need ads in
Canada.
|
Hey Robert aren't you the guy that complains about spelling? Marist may
be Marxist you know like in Groucho.
Bill
--
Garden Shade Zone 5 in a Japanese Jungle manner.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This may contain copyrighted (© ) material the use of
which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. Such material is made available for educational purposes, to
advance understanding of human rights, democracy, scientific, moral,
ethical, and social justice issues, etc. It is believed that this
constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided
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Robert
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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"listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9680A5A534053some1outthere@38.144.126.67...
| Quote: | "Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:0JudnWd_0dh-KyDfRVn-pg@got.net:
"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message people,
The consumer who is frightened and who wants, after all, to do his/her
best to stay healthy sees those ads and gets the message: the risks if
any are rare. The beneifts; good health, glowing good looks, an
enviable lifestyle, is the primary outcome.
And you are here to frighten everyone into not taking the drug by
implying that everyone gets AE and mentioning all the deadly
consequences as though they are everyday.
You have an English background? Oh, that's right you are a journalist.
Isn't it obvious to you that, as far as zee is concerned, any little ache
or pain or memory slip is statin-related? And you can forget about
testing.
Most of the time tests will not show statin-relained AE, as far as she is
concerned. Doctors don't care, hospitals don't care, pharma doesn't care.
It's an extremely bleak, cynical world that she inhabits. She just wants
to
help people.
L.
|
She has learned her trade very well. She takes advantage of every opening
she sees.
Unfortunately you really have to see all her posts to see what she is doing.
Her single reply to a lone poster makes sense at first blush. Somebody might
have concerns about one drug or AE and they might think that it is only that
one drug she has concerns with. I remember the question Jason had about
alternatives to statins if they are so bad and she did not mention one
single alternative.
She wants to prevent people from taking medications and does not want to
accept the complications if they don't.
She is helping people die of natural causes. Her response to Steve about HRT
and osteoporosis is classic. She says that osteoporosis is a natural
progression and normal. Steve and I stated that is a disease where people
get fractures at a slight touch and it should be prevented through
interventions.
If she were a doctor, she and the patient would stare at each other for the
entire office visit. She does not believe in medications period.
I think everybody out there should be aware of that especially new posters. |
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Robert
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:54 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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"William Wagner" <b2wagner@snip.net> wrote in message > Hey Robert aren't
you the guy that complains about spelling? Marist may
| Quote: | be Marxist you know like in Groucho.
Bill
|
<lol> I put it through the check spell and just hit change all without
really looking.
Correct spelling only applies to people who want to scare the s**t out of
people by naming deadly diseases like rhabdomyolysis.
People who can't spell are not as threatening as journalist who can be
deadly. |
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Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 16:47:44 -0400, William Wagner <b2wagner@snip.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | In article <ZbadndQjKdA5ISDfRVn-1g@got.net>,
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote:
"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:1119721436.355214.37130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Apologies; the poster links don't seem to work. I'll get it sorted.
Presently DTCA is illegal in Canada. Pharma finds looholes, and there
is a lot of "leak" across the border as we get US magazines,
newspapers, and television. (We know a lot about you...!)
That brings up a good point about what Canada does.
I find it interesting that Canada does not allow ads but the drug use
consumption is equal to or greater than in the US. If you take Vioxx, the
Canadian and US consumption was pretty similar.
Canada has price controls on drugs and buys many drugs on bulk with price
reductions and saving which are very cost saving.
Vioxx WAS 50-70% cheaper in Canada.
New drugs fill a void which is what drives it's sells. Americans can see it
advertised on American TV and then buy cheaply from Canada and Canadians
themselves can buy cheaply.
The Canadian government and government officials are complicit on providing
dangerous drugs without a long safety record. I also wonder why Zee never
mentions that.
The Marist take over of health care with the banning of private medicine has
make things worse. It has made death acceptable when waiting in line by
Marist apologist in that country.
The Canadian Supreme Court has stated as much.
Like any Marist system the target of corruption becomes the government
officials and I guess the drug manufacturers only have to deal with
government officials in Canada and not the people so they don't need ads in
Canada.
Hey Robert aren't you the guy that complains about spelling? Marist may
be Marxist you know like in Groucho.
Bill
|
I thought perhaps he was referring to Quebec Catholics as the
culprits:) |
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Sharon Hope
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 752
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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So, in your world, everyone on the planet should adopt every new "wellness"
drug available, simply because it is advertized on TV, but not one of them
should take vitamins or other OTC supplements.
And, anyone who points out that the human race has survived to date without
taking any of these new "essential" drugs daily forever, is a scaremonger?
And further, anyone who dares to reveal that they, themselves, have suffered
adverse effects from these wellness drugs is a danger to be ostrasized,
because others might be dissuaded from adopting a regimen of said drug for
the rest of their entire lives.
And we are expected to believe you do not work for Pfizer, Merck, AZ, or any
other pharmaceutical company, nor any of their hired representatives?
LOL
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0JudnWd_0dh-KyDfRVn-pg@got.net...
| Quote: |
"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message people,
The consumer who is frightened and who wants, after all, to do his/her
best to stay healthy sees those ads and gets the message: the risks if any
are rare. The beneifts; good health, glowing good looks, an
enviable lifestyle, is the primary outcome.
And you are here to frighten everyone into not taking the drug by implying
that everyone gets AE and mentioning all the deadly consequences as though
they are everyday.
You have an English background? Oh, that's right you are a journalist.
|
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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"Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in
news:rd2dncDgUMjReyPfRVn-pg@comcast.com:
| Quote: | So, in your world, everyone on the planet should adopt every new
"wellness" drug available, simply because it is advertized on TV, but
not one of them should take vitamins or other OTC supplements
|
Traditional medicine, alternative medicine, vitamins, supplements - all
have their positive aspects and negative aspects.
| Quote: | And, anyone who points out that the human race has survived to date
without taking any of these new "essential" drugs daily forever, is a
scaremonger?
|
That's one of the silliest statements you've ever made.
| Quote: | And further, anyone who dares to reveal that they, themselves, have
suffered adverse effects from these wellness drugs is a danger to be
ostrasized, because others might be dissuaded from adopting a regimen
of said drug for the rest of their entire lives.
|
I think it's safe to say that you and zee have gone way beyond simple
self-revelation and have become very strong advocates against the use of
statins to the point of distorting studies to support your views and
overreaching in many of your conclusions. In that regard, Robert's charge
is chillingly correct.
| Quote: | And we are expected to believe you do not work for Pfizer, Merck, AZ,
or any other pharmaceutical company, nor any of their hired
representatives?
LOL
|
I wouldn't even begin to try and understand your expectations. But if
Andrew Chung is sure my real name is "Frank I suppose you can believe
that *I* am somehow involved in pharmaceuticals! But I swear, on a stack
of medical inserts, that I am not.
L.
| Quote: |
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0JudnWd_0dh-KyDfRVn-pg@got.net...
"zee" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in message people,
The consumer who is frightened and who wants, after all, to do
his/her best to stay healthy sees those ads and gets the message: the
risks if any are rare. The beneifts; good health, glowing good looks,
an enviable lifestyle, is the primary outcome.
And you are here to frighten everyone into not taking the drug by
implying that everyone gets AE and mentioning all the deadly
consequences as though they are everyday.
You have an English background? Oh, that's right you are a
journalist.
|
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outrider
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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I dunno. Curt has his opinion...
Zee |
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Robert
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
|
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|
"Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in message
news:rd2dncDgUMjReyPfRVn-pg@comcast.com...
| Quote: | So, in your world, everyone on the planet should adopt every new
"wellness"
drug available, simply because it is advertized on TV, but not one of them
should take vitamins or other OTC supplements.
|
To the contrary. Everyone should try and avoid any new drug. The new drug is
the last choice one should make. The next best choice is an old drug and the
best choice of all is exercise, diet, vitamins and anything else they can
take in order to avoid any drugs. Vitamins and OTC are drugs.
Once a person takes drugs then it is the person who determines which drug is
best for that individual and no ad can eliminate side effects that need not
be toxic. An ad can get a person to try the drug but it does not determine
that person staying on it if they don't like it.
| Quote: |
And, anyone who points out that the human race has survived to date
without
taking any of these new "essential" drugs daily forever, is a scaremonger?
|
Yes they are. It is a competing contest on who can scare the person the
most. The doctor can do it by telling the person if he doesn't take meds
then bad things can happen and then there's you who can scare people into
not taking them by overexaggerating the incidence of life threatening
reactions.
| Quote: |
And further, anyone who dares to reveal that they, themselves, have
suffered
adverse effects from these wellness drugs is a danger to be ostrasized,
because others might be dissuaded from adopting a regimen of said drug for
the rest of their entire lives.
|
So what you are saying is that you want to tell others not to take the drugs
because very bad things can happen to them and end up with brain damage like
yourself.
If someone tells you not to drive your car because you can get into an
accident will they be ostrasized?
Those are assumed risks and taking new drugs you assume the risk.
| Quote: |
And we are expected to believe you do not work for Pfizer, Merck, AZ, or
any
other pharmaceutical company, nor any of their hired representatives?
LOL
|
Statin induced paranoia?
Nurses dispense drugs in hospitals every single day. You would not be able
to give one single drug to any patient because of your mental state. Every
drug out there is potentially lethal.
Your perspective is so unbelievable and unrealistic that it really kills
your arguements. There are valid concerns about statins and AE but you, the
mesenger is damaged.
We take care of the sick caused by the lack of drugs or interventions and
those with drugs or inverventions.
I find it interesting that there are so many open heart surgeries that may
not be needed. It is a profit, many making business.
The department head of cardiology was replaced years ago because he did not
believe in expanding open heart surgeries like hysterectomies were expanded.
He believed in medical medicinal drug interventions in avoiding surgery. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:57 am Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WpWdnWIvTKYIWSDfRVn-jQ@got.net...
| Quote: |
"William Wagner" <b2wagner@snip.net> wrote in message > Hey Robert aren't
you the guy that complains about spelling? Marist may
be Marxist you know like in Groucho.
Bill
lol> I put it through the check spell and just hit change all without
really looking.
Correct spelling only applies to people who want to scare the s**t out of
people by naming deadly diseases like rhabdomyolysis.
People who can't spell are not as threatening as journalist who can be
deadly.
|
I had to wonder about the Marist thing..!!!
I agree with your last sentence Robert....
also that was an excellent explanation about Canada's healthcare system and
all its flaws... |
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Robert
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:
Re: New "Double" Statin Drug
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<Hawki63@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:MWJve.34276$J12.24891@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
| Quote: |
"Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:WpWdnWIvTKYIWSDfRVn-jQ@got.net...
"William Wagner" <b2wagner@snip.net> wrote in message > Hey Robert
aren't
you the guy that complains about spelling? Marist may
be Marxist you know like in Groucho.
Bill
lol> I put it through the check spell and just hit change all without
really looking.
Correct spelling only applies to people who want to scare the s**t out
of
people by naming deadly diseases like rhabdomyolysis.
People who can't spell are not as threatening as journalist who can be
deadly.
I had to wonder about the Marist thing..!!!
|
LOL. Funny thing is I work for a catholic hospital so they would be proud of
me for that reference. |
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