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Javi
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 8
|
 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:11 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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Patrick wrote:
| Quote: | "willispin" <willispin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111908238.429570.105260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck
Will I must say I do virtually the same thing, about 120 pills of
Norco 10/325 last me about 15-20 days, then I suffer through
the rest of the month with some help from Ultram but I do feel
the pain a lot more and some withdrawal nasties, I have actually
mentioned this to my Doc and told him how I am taking them
which is within the boundary he writes (1-1.5 pills every 4-6 hrs),
and he feels maybe I am being under medicated and wants to
put me on methadone instead of the Norco, I just do not want
to step up to methadone, regardless of how long it lasts because
I am scared of addiction to such a strong med.
Patrick
Many good points have been made, I for one make sure that I never
have more than 3000 mg of any acetaminophen in any given day.
|
I am reallly surprised that nobody here has mentioned the obvious thing
to recommend to a person who is taking around 4 gm. of acetaminophen
(APAP) per day: take NAC (n-acetylcysteine) in the same amount as the
acetaminophen. NAC is the preferred treatment for acetaminophen
poisoning, can be take as a preventive of liver damage by people who
take several grams of APAP a day, and it is cheap in its oral formulations.
http://uuhsc.utah.edu/poison/healthpros/utox/Vol7_No1.pdf
"Chronic toxicity can develop at doses of
greater than 75 mg/kg/day in children and more than 4-6
g/day in adults, especially when taken for several
consecutive days."
--
Javi |
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Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject:
Re: aspirin and surgery
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Jason,
I'm not a big fan of ginkgo biloba...the majority of the
distributors of the available products turn tail and run
at the mention of "standardized product formulations" to
even allow some measure of scientific analysis as to the
benefit or detriment of these products. My advice is to
simply follow what has been shown to be somewhat effective
and relatively safe, as well as low cost. Besides, ginkgo
is really being pushed as some sort of "mind booster" by
way of some unknown/undisclosed mechanism of action on
brain circulation. I for one prefer to know what I am
doing to my brain!! I use it all the time!
C U L8R!
Wiz <{;-)
In article <jason-2403051728040001@pm4-broad-57.snlo.dialup.fix.net> jason@nospam.com (Jason) writes:
| Quote: | Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:28:03 -0800
From: jason@nospam.com (Jason)
Subject: Re: aspirin and surgery
Wizard,
Thanks--your post makes sense and is in line with what I have read on
the subject. A question came up last week related to Ginkgo Biloba.
Would a person have the same result if he or she took one Ginkgo
Biloba pill each day instead of an aspiren pill each day?
|
| Quote: | In article <Wizard57M.267.000B9CA4@SurfBest.net>, Wizard57M@SurfBest.net
(Glenn Gilbreath Jr.) wrote:
Ora,
The reason why the suggested dose is one aspirin daily, not weekly,
is what you mentioned...platelets are being replaced every day.
The aspirin in the low-dose 81 mg, even in a regular 325 mg tablet,
is not in high enough quantity to disable ALL the platelets in the
blood. There will still be sufficient numbers of platelets to get
the clotting process started in a bit longer time. With this in
mind, it is advisable to caution patients on aspirin therapy to be
a bit more careful around sharp objects, such as razors for shaving.
Bleeding from small nicks will take longer to stop than what they
are accustomed to. A review of appropriate first aid measures is
also a prudent consideration.
See you later!
Glenn
Wiz <{
(signature below)
In article <jason-2303051624070001@pm4-broad-52.snlo.dialup.fix.net
jason@nospam.com (Jason) writes:
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:24:07 -0800
From: jason@nospam.com (Jason)
Subject: Re: aspirin and surgery
Hello,
I am not a medical expert. It's my guess that studies have been done that
show that older people should take one aspirin per day--not one per week.
If your theory was true--the medical experts would tell us to take one
asperin per week instead of one per day. A medical expert might respond
and explain why we need one asperin per day instead of one per week.
In article <hmh3419lqcrh4plgj7bb19n41tqem4kg2q@4ax.com>,
nospam@pacbell.net wrote:
Thanks for answering my question. Now another one - if aspirin
deactivates
platelets permanently, and new platelets (I presume) are produced daily
to
replace those that expire, it seems to me that it would be more logical
to take
an aspirin about once a week so that we will have SOME useful platelets
which
will permit clotting but not so many that they might stick to the artery
walls.
I take an aspirin about once a week which I have heard is useful for
preventing
strokes and other bad stuff, but I still have clotting ability which I
think we
need.
Ora
On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 23:31:27, Wizard57M@SurfBest.net (Glenn Gilbreath
Jr.)
wrote:
To answer the original question, regarding not taking aspirin for
at least 2 weeks prior to surgery or other invasive technique...
aspirin deactivates platelets permanently from binding to each
other. Platelet binding is one of the first steps in blood clotting.
The "turnover rate" for platelet production is roughly 4 weeks.
By not taking aspirin products for minimum of 2 weeks prior to a
surgical procedure, it allows the platelets to be replaced to a
level that promotes blood clotting, and this prevents the patient
from bleeding to death.
As far as "effective dose" for aspirin's effect on platelets, the
81 mg strength is usually plenty, and can be taken daily.
Alternatively, it is perfectly allright for a patient to take a
regular 325mg ("5 grain") aspririn tablet daily to prevent blood
clotting, as long as some monitoring of the patient's GI tract is
performed to prevent bleeding of the stomach wall, or ulcer
irritation.
C U L8R!
Wiz <{
Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! --
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! --
--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
|
Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! -- |
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Tom Malcolm
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:51 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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| Quote: | Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325
every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
|
I would get a perscription for low-dose, time release
morphine - it has very few mental effects in low doses,
just kills pain, but with all opiate pain killers, beware the
danger - not addiction - but constipation. I once had
severe pain so bad due to a pinched back nerve I had to
take 4 vicodins every 3 hours just to sleep - a very high
dose of ACAP - dangerous!. After the MRI proved the
damage, they switched me to low dose time release
morphine - doctor warned me of addiction, pharmacy
warned me of addiction, not one of them nor the
warnings on the bottle mentioned it stops your
digestive system like cement - nobody warned me,
so 2 weeks later I was in the emergency room getting
an enema for impacted bowels, not fun! |
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Hank
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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Why not simply ask your doctor to refer you to a pain
specialist, level with him or her, and let the chips fall
where they may? Most pain specialists are genuine and
will try to help you out-- but they have superb BS detectors.
That's my only caveat. If you truly have a chronic pain
problem, go to someone who specializes in dealing with
it. If you're just a doper, do a Google search; you'll find
what you need (want).
Hank
"willispin" <willispin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1111908238.429570.105260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck
|
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Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 18
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Bextra recalled by FDA
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In article <GGh5e.922637$8l.331880@pd7tw1no> "kr0" <kentr0ss@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | From: "kr0" <kentr0ss@yahoo.com
Subject: Bextra recalled by FDA
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:33:26 GMT
Apparently the FDA has asked for the arthritis painkiller Bextra to be
recalled from the shelves because of the dangerous side effects. It seems
Bextra may cause heart attacks, strokes and other problems. If you go to
https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/bextra.html there is more
information about the recall, the dangers and what can be done about it. The
site offers free case evaluations for those who have had issues with this
drug. I found this of interest and hope it might be of some help.
kr0
|
In my opinion, life itself should be recalled! Face it...there is
NO WAY you will get out of life alive. If you are fortunate, you
MIGHT maintain some semblence of sanity throughout your lifespan.
But in the end, the primary end result of life is death. Those
dangerous side effects too! Like heart attack, gout, hypertension,
divorce, lonliness...sheesh, face it...life is tough! Still, the
only alternative is death, so for now I'll keep my life...get one
of your own! Kindly refrain from posting reprinted junk from a
plagirized web page...TIA!
Wiz <{
Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! -- |
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nobody special
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
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"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:7dSdnf0GmK4L6drfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
| Quote: | The DEA's interpretation is pretty much a moot point. The law is what
counts and if it does not specifically state a postdated rx on a c-II
isn't valid then it is a valid rx.
|
Until challenged in court, their interpretation should be of interest to
you. |
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halo2 guy
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
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Actually the law stands as is and it is up to the DEA to challenge it.
"nobody special" <nospam@4methankz.com> wrote in message
news:O5-dnQ--_Kwk2MTfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:7dSdnf0GmK4L6drfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
The DEA's interpretation is pretty much a moot point. The law is what
counts and if it does not specifically state a postdated rx on a c-II
isn't valid then it is a valid rx.
Until challenged in court, their interpretation should be of interest to
you.
|
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Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 18
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
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In article <dYCdnRJRc7NQ1MTfRVn-ow@comcast.com> "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> writes:
| Quote: | From: "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com
Subject: Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:44:01 -0700
Actually the law stands as is and it is up to the DEA to challenge it.
|
| Quote: | "nobody special" <nospam@4methankz.com> wrote in message
news:O5-dnQ--_Kwk2MTfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:7dSdnf0GmK4L6drfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
The DEA's interpretation is pretty much a moot point. The law is what
counts and if it does not specifically state a postdated rx on a c-II
isn't valid then it is a valid rx.
Until challenged in court, their interpretation should be of interest to
you.
|
Well, ACTUALLY...those matters are presently left up to each
individual state in the US. For example, Oklahoma has a different
set of regulations than Texas. In OK, carisoprodol (Soma) is a
CIV...in other states, it isn't a CDS. However, in the case of
a "contradiction" between Federal and State laws, the pharmacist
MUST abide by the "stricter" of the two.
C U L8R!
Wiz <{
Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! -- |
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halo2 guy
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
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|
We are not talking about a comparison of laws. We are talking about an
interpretation of an existing law by the DEA. It does not matter in which
way the DEA interprets the law. It only matters what the law actually is.
It is like when a dumbass guy percieves a girl is coming on to them and they
aren't coming on to them. The perception is that the girl is flirting and
the reality is the guy is going home alone sitting in his underwear,
watching tv, drinking beer and eating cheetos.
"Glenn Gilbreath Jr." <Wizard57M@SurfBest.net> wrote in message
news:Wizard57M.276.00109C44@SurfBest.net...
| Quote: | In article <dYCdnRJRc7NQ1MTfRVn-ow@comcast.com> "halo2 guy"
somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> writes:
From: "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com
Subject: Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:44:01 -0700
Actually the law stands as is and it is up to the DEA to challenge it.
"nobody special" <nospam@4methankz.com> wrote in message
news:O5-dnQ--_Kwk2MTfRVn-qQ@comcast.com...
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:7dSdnf0GmK4L6drfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
The DEA's interpretation is pretty much a moot point. The law is what
counts and if it does not specifically state a postdated rx on a c-II
isn't valid then it is a valid rx.
Until challenged in court, their interpretation should be of interest to
you.
Well, ACTUALLY...those matters are presently left up to each
individual state in the US. For example, Oklahoma has a different
set of regulations than Texas. In OK, carisoprodol (Soma) is a
CIV...in other states, it isn't a CDS. However, in the case of
a "contradiction" between Federal and State laws, the pharmacist
MUST abide by the "stricter" of the two.
C U L8R!
Wiz <{
Wizard57M
Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Registered Pharmacist
http://members.surfbest.net/wizard57m@surfbest.net/index.htm
-- DOS Internet, Close Windows and Keep the Internet Open! -- |
|
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halo2 guy
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:52 am Post subject:
Re: Lunesta should cost $20 per month: we are being ROBBED.
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Nice rant. It does have some interesting information but so what.
It isn't a drug you are required to buy. If you don't want to spend the
money for it then don't buy it. Very simple. End of tirade.
"Doug Reding" <dougreding90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:EK6dnY-wE8vFy8bfRVn-pA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | Here is the dirty little secret about the $120 per month drug Lunesta:
THIS DRUG IS NOTHING NEW.
In fact, it is far from new. It's been around for over 10 years. You can
get it in Canada for $20 per month where it's been available for a decade.
In Sweden I'm told the price is about $10 per month. It is most commonly
sold under the brand name Imovane. The chemical name is zopiclone, and
it's
been around for 13 years. Lunesta is nothing more than the s-isomer of
this
13 year old drug. Lunesta is nothing short of legal larceny.
Specifically, Lunesta is the s-isomer of zopiclone. The s-isomer is
thought
to be the active of the two isomers (r and s). Lunesta comes in 2 and 3mg
tablets. Zopiclone tablets most commonly are 7.5mg. A 7.5mg zopiclone
tablet will have a certain amount of both the s-isomer and r-isomer. If
3mg
is the most commonly effective dose of Lunesta, then it is highly likely
that a 7.5mg zopiclone tablet CONTAINS roughly 3mg of the s-isomer, which
is
now being sold as Lunesta. The remainder would be the r-isomer. The only
way that Lunesta could be ANY different from standard zopiclone is if the
r-isomer is in some way problematic, causes side effects, interferes with
the efficacy of the s-isomer, etc. There is absolutely no evidence that
this is the case.
Sepracor has taken an existing drug which works very well, isolated an
isomer from it, and gotten approval to sell their "new" drug in the United
States for $4 per pill. In this way they will legally fleece the American
public out of BILLIONS of dollars annually.
This story appears to get downright criminal. Guess who makes Imovane /
zopiclone? AVENTIS! Yes, the SAME Sanofi-Aventis that owns Ambien.
Sepracor
came to an agreement with Aventis in October 1999 giving it the right to
develop and market the s-isomer of zopiclone in the United States. From
the
Sepracor website http://www.sepracor.com/about/agreements.html:
"In October 1999, Sepracor entered into an agreement with Rhone-Poulenc
Rorer SA (RPR), a unit of Rhone-Poulenc SA, now sanofi-aventis, whereby
Sepracor exclusively licensed RPR's preclinical, clinical and
post-marketing
surveillance data package relating to zopiclone, its isomers and
metabolites, to develop, make, use and sell eszopiclone in the United
States. Zopiclone, marketed by RPR under the brand names of IMOVANEŽ and
AMOBANŽ for the treatment of insomnia, is available in approximately 80
countries worldwide but has never been registered for the U.S market."
Why Aventis is so "worried" about Lunesta puzzles me. They are so
"worried"
by Lunesta that they are trying to get approval for chronic use of Ambien,
a
use which Lunesta is approved for. Ambien is not suitable for chronic use
(in most people anyway, whereas zopiclone is suited to this purpose in
most
people) and Aventis knows this. They are also releasing a "timed-release"
version (what an innovation!!) in response to Lunesta which will get them
a
new patent. If Aventis was so worried about the s-isomer of their own
drug
being sold in the United States to compete with Ambien, then why didn't
Aventis keep zopiclone for themselves? I smell a RAT. "The fix is in."
However you want to look at it, something is going on here that STINKS.
And
it's going to cost us BILLIONS, whoever is most to blame for it.
Why are we being asked to pay $120 per month for a drug that should cost
us
$20 per month, and one that should have been available a decade ago? A
better question: WHY IS THIS TYPE OF *THEFT* ALLOWED TO GO ON IN THE FIRST
PLACE??? I have a few ideas about this. I realize I am going out on a
limb
and opening myself up to who knows what, but I believe I am doing the
right
thing here:
1) This was clearly by design. If s-zopiclone is approvable than so is
zopiclone, which has been approved in over 80 countries. American
consumers
should have had zopiclone made available to them long ago, like the rest
of
the world.
2) Why have millions of suffering people in the United States been denied
this highly effective medication for the past decade? I believe I have
been
made to suffer for over 10 years along with MILLIONS of other people who
cannot sleep well no matter what they do, all so some unethical drug
companies can fleece the suffering out of billions upon billions of
dollars.
The FDA is clearly aware of the problem and is complacent about it.
3) I find it no coincidence that s-zopiclone is introduced into the United
States at a time nearing the end of Ambien's patent. Ambien's patent
expires October 21, 2006.
4) By WITHHOLDING zopiclone from American consumers, and instead providing
us with the vastly inferior Ambien, Aventis and their partner Sepracor set
themselves up to own the patent on what *was* "the" sleeping pill in the
United States (Ambien) and what WILL be "the" sleeping pill in the United
States (Lunesta) thus giving them a near monopoly on the sleep drug market
in the United States for double the time they would have had if they had
done the RIGHT thing and introduced zopiclone here in the first place.
Granted, Aventis does not own s-zopiclone outright, but clearly they have
a
large interest in it.
5) What about importing zopiclone from Canada or elsewhere? Well, that WAS
possible for about 10 years or so. But, within weeks of Lunesta making
it's
way into American pharmacies, the DEA scheduled the $20 per month
zopiclone,
A DRUG WHICH WAS UNSCHEDULED AND IMPORTABLE FOR MANY YEARS. What a
strange
coincidence! The rats at the FDA and DEA reek with a filthy stench every
bit
as vile as the ones emanating from the pharmaceutical companies. "The fix
is in" really does apply I think!
The absolute WORST thing about this, and the thing that boils my blood
more
than anything, is NOT the fact that certain companies will be STEALING
billions of dollars from American consumers. What boils my blood the MOST
about this is the fact that WE COULD HAVE HAD ZOPICLONE HERE 10 YEARS AGO.
You and I and everyone else with chronic insomnia could have been sleeping
well every night for the past ten years if we respond to this drug the way
most people do. Instead, GREED caused it to be withheld and we were
forced
to suffer with our insomnia for an entire decade, using benzodiazepines or
Ambien and Sonata for ten years with very poor results, tolerance,
addiction, rebound insomnia and other nasty side effects of these inferior
medications. Here in the United States we suffered with only marginally
effective solutions available. All the while, the HIGHLY EFFECTIVE
zopiclone was being used all over the globe, but kept from Americans so we
could be fleeced out of billions a decade later. It is sickening and
wrong,
and we need to do something about it.
I am not going to leave this alone. Far from it. However, if I am
successful these companies and the FDA and DEA will have far greater than
me
to worry about. After I post this, I am going to FAX this to the two
individuals who I think can really put this into the public eye, and
hopefully will:
1) Clark Howard: America's #1 consumer advocate. His talk show is all
about
protecting people from getting ripped off, and helping people make the
most
of their finances. It's the most useful show on radio and it's on from
1-4pm EST. No one has ever done a finer job protecting consumers than
Clark
Howard.
www.clarkhoward.com
Phone: 1-877-87-CLARK
FAX: 404-607-8255
2) Dr. Dean Edell: "America's Doctor". Dr. Edell hosts one of the biggest
talk shows in the country, on daily from 10-11am EST. I have heard Dr.
Edell talk about a similar situation involving Claritin and Clarinex.
Claritin goes off patent, out comes Clarinex. Guess what? Clarinex is an
isomer of Claritin and no more effective when proper dosages are used!
Sound
familiar? I cannot find a FAX number for Dr. Dean Edell. I am hoping that
Clark Howard will take up this issue and then contact Dr. Edell.
http://www.healthcentral.com
There are many examples of this type of out and out THEFT in the
pharmaceutical industry. I am not anti-pharmaceutical in any way. What I
AM against are unethical practices which allow companies to legally steal
billions of dollars from consumers. I would suggest that drug patent laws
be changed to prevent this from happening:
1) I certainly believe that NOVEL compounds should be patentable.
However,
I do NOT think that new patents should be granted for isomers of existing
drugs unless there is a *VERY* clear difference between the action of the
isomer, and the action of the parent compound. This would put a stop to
the
nonsense that is taking an old drug when it comes off of patent and
getting
a new patent for an isomer. This is simply getting a new patent on an old
drug unless there is a very clear difference. In essence, it is a
loophole
which allows pharmaceutical companies to circumvent patent laws and
receive
multiple patents on the same compound. Even when an isomer is clearly
different, I may suggest this be disallowed in all circumstances as the
drug
companies who develop these compounds should KNOW if one isomer is more
effective than the parent compound and they should release the isomer ONLY
if that's the case. I'm sure there are plenty of instances where pharma
knew that one isomer was the active constituent of a compound, yet they
chose to introduce the parent compound first planning well in advance to
get
a second patent on the isomer.
2) In the same way as isomers of existing compounds should not qualify for
new patents, DELIVERY SYSTEMS should not count for new patents, either.
Why, you ask? Well let's use Ambien as an example, purely hypothetically:
A) Original Ambien tablets introduced = first patent
B) Uh oh, Ambien patent about to expire! We better release TIME
RELEASED
Ambien now. Guess what? SECOND PATENT!
C) Uh oh, our time-release Ambien patent is about to expire! We better
have SUBLINGUAL Ambien created and marketed now as being the most
effective
Ambien ever. THIRD PATENT!
D) Geez, our sublingual patent is about to expire. What should we do
now? I KNOW! How about TRANSDERMAL Ambien and a FOURTH PATENT??
E) Ad infinitum.... (on and on into eternity....)
Here's a potential reading list for people as angry as me. I haven't read
any of these books myself yet, as the problem and the magnitude of the
problem have just now come to my attention. I'm going to order ALL of
these
books and try to contact the authors.
The $800 Million Pill : The Truth behind the Cost of New Drugs
by Merrill Goozner
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0520239458
The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do
About
It
by Marcia Angell
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375508465
On The Take: How Medicine's Complicity with Big Business Can Endanger Your
Health
by Jerome Kassirer
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195176847
The Big Fix: How the Pharmaceutical Industry Rips Off American Consumers
(Publicaffairs Reports)
by Katharine Greider
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586481851
Is there a consumer watchdog organization already trying to fight this
nonsense?? If there is, could someone please point me to their site? If
not,
I may just create one myself. I am off to ClarkHoward.com now.
Feel free to copy and paste this and forward it to whoever you want. The
farther and wider it is spread, the better. To any physicians and
scientists with the guts to step forward and speak on this issue, your
input
would be GREATLY appreciated.
Doug Reding
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Pumbaa
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Lunesta should cost $20 per month: we are being ROBBED.
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|
Thanks to insurance paying for Lunesta and attractive salespeople selling
this "snake oil", I bet they make a lot of money off the stuff. People and
that includes a lot of the medical profession believe all the verbal BS that
these salespeople drop along with those "free samples". They always seem to
discover a new and better isomer about the time that patent protection is
expiring on the original product.
In the rural area where I live there are two gas stations side by side. One
is an Exxon and one a Chevron. Both sell virtually the same gasoline.
However the Chevron station constantly prices all his grades of gasoline two
cents higher than the other station. You can easily see both of the
stations' signs from the road. In a logical world I would think that the
Chevron station would sell almost no gasoline and that he would have to
lower his price. But you can fool the laws of capitalism at least sometimes
with advertising. The Chevron does have a grocery store and is a larger
store but most of the time when I stop at a gas station it is to buy
gasoline and not food. |
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Repeating Rifle
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject:
Re: OUR HEALTH, how important is it to us.
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|
in article vvydnZ9nlraqEfzfRVn-tA@wctc.net, greg wadel at
wadel@uniontel.netNO SPAM wrote on 4/16/05 5:05 PM:
| Quote: | A message to the news groups out there about this amazing vitamin that is on
the market, they say it supports the whole body, things like
STRESS, BODY FAT, ANTI-AGING, ACNE AND SKIN, ARTHRITIS, DIABETES, BONES,
SLEEP, CANCER, HEART DISEASE, DIGESTION AND INDIGESTION, KIDNEY AND LIVER,
MEMORY, EYESIGHT, ENERGY, DEPRESSION, and so much more.
|
Distilled crap. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:25 am Post subject:
Re: Where Cialis, Viagra, Avodart to low cost?
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| Quote: | Where to buy Avodart at cheap price?
|
Hi,
http://www.anagen.net/generics.htm
Michael |
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getsumonya
medicine forum addict
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject:
Re: agonist, antagonist.
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|
|
"6876" <am495@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1114699528.570956.167490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Whats the difference between an agonist and an atagonist?
agonist= with or activates |
antagonist=against or blocks |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:23 am Post subject:
Re: prior auths
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|
<nospam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2em3711elmll7fm15d2g03es1k28o3v146@4ax.com...
| Quote: | My son went to his doctor who gave him some samples of Nexium. He used
the
samples and told the doctor that they worked for him so his doctor faxed a
prescription to his pharmacy. My son had to go to work and he asked me to
go
and pick up his Nexium because he didn't want to miss a dose that he would
need
to take the next day. His doctor had told him not to miss a dose.
Well, I went to the pharmacy to pick up his Nexium and they told me that
Nexium
was not covered by his insurance. They called his doctor's office but
the
doctor had left town for two weeks and the backup doctor switched the
prescription to Protonix.
I picked up the Protonix and when my son found out about it he said his
doctor
had told him to take Nexium and he was not going to take Protonix. His
copay
was $35.00 and he lost that because the pharmacy would not take back the
Protonix. He was able to get some more samples to make up for the cost of
the
protonix and the backup doctor was able to get the insurance company to
approve
the Nexium. It would have nice to have the prior authorization but what
should
he do in the future?
Ora
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:15:22 GMT, <Hawki63@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Curiously have "run into " an individual on another ng that insists that
"some states" require providers to obtain prior auths on EVERY script
written!!
being a prescriber myself I simply could not convince him otherwise...
what he describes is a provider seeing a patient,,deciding on a proper
med,,,then getting on the phone/computer and contacting the carrier!!!
yikes...we would be seeing 5 patients a day,,,not 28!!
any opionon I can give this guy???
I suggested Medicaid or other state programs might have restricted
formularies...but he insists it is with ALL companies...says I don't know
what "other states" do..
help!!
|
you can call your insurance carrier and ask for a copy of their
formulary...take it with you to doc's appt...and look up any new drug doc is
suggesting...
tho formularies get out of date rather quickly...and new drugs..like Nexium
might not be approved at first...
or...from the doc's office...you can have a staff member call your pharmacy
and see if the new drug will "clear" their computer...then take your script
there to be filled...
if it is NOT covered you would know before leaving the office...then you
have a choice of asking doc for a different med,,,or at least know that when
you get to the pharmacy you will have to pay (more)
our company charges a $35 copay for non formulary meds...which is way less
than paying the full price...
good luck |
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