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AmyWiz
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: Vaporizer, Portable, in Development
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CHEAP VOLCANO VAPORIZERS
Hey I just got a Volcano Vaporizer on http://www.vapir.com for $449 !
Seems like they got a few pallets of them in stock and are blowing them
out for CHEAP!
Also, I bought a Vapir ONE 2.0 from them and a balloon inflation kit
for under $150! That thing is dope! Way better than the Volcano
Vaporizer. I will be selling my old one on ebay if anyone is
interested. It is fast-heating, portable, cordless and selling cheap.
GM wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.flashevap.com It's portable, battery powered,
fast-heating and intended for use in places where
smoking is not legal. Still in development, though. |
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Bob Schmitt
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject:
Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
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It does not specifically say that in the law book- it just states C2s may
not have any refills.
The dea recently announced that its interpretation is that giving a post
dated rx is like giving a refill because if you do not need it right away
then why is it post dated.
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:dZednefD-49bUJPfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | That is interesting but I am unable to find that law. Do you know where I
could look for it? I have inspected the US federal code but no luck so
far.
"Dan" <dan.aubuchon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108263335.432075.241170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I agree with the calling BS on the CVS, but it is now (very recently)
against US FEDERAL LAW for a physician to write, "do not fill until" or
a like statement, the DEA views this as refills on C2 prescriptions and
thus defeating the purpose of not allowing refills on these Rx's. ANY
script with this on it is technically void. Now whether or not your
pharmacists knows this is another question.
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Melissa via MedKB.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 408
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:03 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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My own personal opinion - yes, you obviously have chronic pain, but you
also obviously have substance abuse issues. I urge you to seek help for
both.
Take care.
"Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
"Good Luck
--
Message posted via http://www.medkb.com |
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willispin
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:23 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck |
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Patrick
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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"willispin" <willispin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111908238.429570.105260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck
|
Will I must say I do virtually the same thing, about 120 pills of
Norco 10/325 last me about 15-20 days, then I suffer through
the rest of the month with some help from Ultram but I do feel
the pain a lot more and some withdrawal nasties, I have actually
mentioned this to my Doc and told him how I am taking them
which is within the boundary he writes (1-1.5 pills every 4-6 hrs),
and he feels maybe I am being under medicated and wants to
put me on methadone instead of the Norco, I just do not want
to step up to methadone, regardless of how long it lasts because
I am scared of addiction to such a strong med.
Patrick |
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halo2 guy
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:05 am Post subject:
Re: Schedule II Dispensing Question
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The DEA's interpretation is pretty much a moot point. The law is what
counts and if it does not specifically state a postdated rx on a c-II isn't
valid then it is a valid rx.
"Bob Schmitt" <robertschmitt@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:etg1e.9311$S46.4312@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | It does not specifically say that in the law book- it just states C2s may
not have any refills.
The dea recently announced that its interpretation is that giving a post
dated rx is like giving a refill because if you do not need it right away
then why is it post dated.
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:dZednefD-49bUJPfRVn-iA@comcast.com...
That is interesting but I am unable to find that law. Do you know where
I could look for it? I have inspected the US federal code but no luck so
far.
"Dan" <dan.aubuchon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108263335.432075.241170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I agree with the calling BS on the CVS, but it is now (very recently)
against US FEDERAL LAW for a physician to write, "do not fill until" or
a like statement, the DEA views this as refills on C2 prescriptions and
thus defeating the purpose of not allowing refills on these Rx's. ANY
script with this on it is technically void. Now whether or not your
pharmacists knows this is another question.
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halo2 guy
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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If you are taking that much medication on a regular basis then I would say
your doctor doesn't quite have a handle on what he/she is doing as far as
pain management. You should be using a variety of pain killers to avoid
addiction and keep your body from getting used to the same thing.
With this constant does I would be worried about my damn liver that I would
have to get and not the pain I am in.
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4bG1e.10220$S46.4296@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | "willispin" <willispin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111908238.429570.105260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck
Will I must say I do virtually the same thing, about 120 pills of
Norco 10/325 last me about 15-20 days, then I suffer through
the rest of the month with some help from Ultram but I do feel
the pain a lot more and some withdrawal nasties, I have actually
mentioned this to my Doc and told him how I am taking them
which is within the boundary he writes (1-1.5 pills every 4-6 hrs),
and he feels maybe I am being under medicated and wants to
put me on methadone instead of the Norco, I just do not want
to step up to methadone, regardless of how long it lasts because
I am scared of addiction to such a strong med.
Patrick
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Patrick
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 30
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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|
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:TvWdna0t88KB6NrfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | If you are taking that much medication on a regular basis then I would say
your doctor doesn't quite have a handle on what he/she is doing as far as
pain management. You should be using a variety of pain killers to avoid
addiction and keep your body from getting used to the same thing.
With this constant does I would be worried about my damn liver that I
would
have to get and not the pain I am in.
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4bG1e.10220$S46.4296@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"willispin" <willispin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111908238.429570.105260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325 every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck
Will I must say I do virtually the same thing, about 120 pills of
Norco 10/325 last me about 15-20 days, then I suffer through
the rest of the month with some help from Ultram but I do feel
the pain a lot more and some withdrawal nasties, I have actually
mentioned this to my Doc and told him how I am taking them
which is within the boundary he writes (1-1.5 pills every 4-6 hrs),
and he feels maybe I am being under medicated and wants to
put me on methadone instead of the Norco, I just do not want
to step up to methadone, regardless of how long it lasts because
I am scared of addiction to such a strong med.
Patrick
|
Many good points have been made, I for one make sure that I never
have more than 3000 mg of any acetaminophen in any given day.
There are few choices out there though. 1) I do not want to be on a
schedule II drug: 2) Most doctors are under great pressure not to
give any patient, chronic pain or not, schedule II opiates on a regular
and continuous amount, 3) they do not make hydrocodone bitartrate
without APAP, at least in pill form.
So this leaves me and others having to ingest a drug that has never been
proven to be a good prostaglandin inhibitor, and a horrible liver toxic
chemical in every type of hydrocodone bitartrate pill on the market.
If the DEA is so upset about doctors prescribing Oxycontin and there are
so many abusing it, then why not develop something like a long acting
hydrocodone preparation without APAP and thus reduce the abuse
potential? For that matter, how about developing an NSAID pill that
works as well as Toradol injections do?
We have a long way to go and I am afraid that we really need the
pharmaceutical companies behind us to help so that a chronic pain
patient's options are not limited to opiates and if they are, how about
less addictive opiates.
Patrick |
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halo2 guy
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 46
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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|
They may be under great pressure to not prescribe those c-II drugs but they
are there for a reason and if you are having the qualifying pain then you
should get a c-II. Codeine is in a form by itself. I see patients all the
time that are continously on Oxy and they are not abusing it. There are
many forms of these meds that could probably help you out. I wouldn't let
whether or not a drug is a C-II determine whether or not I would get it.
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bE_1e.10842$S46.2285@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | "halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> wrote in message
news:TvWdna0t88KB6NrfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
If you are taking that much medication on a regular basis then I would
say
your doctor doesn't quite have a handle on what he/she is doing as far as
pain management. You should be using a variety of pain killers to avoid
addiction and keep your body from getting used to the same thing.
With this constant does I would be worried about my damn liver that I
would
have to get and not the pain I am in.
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4bG1e.10220$S46.4296@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"willispin" <willispin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111908238.429570.105260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Personally i take vicodin for severe back pain, about 120-7.2/325
every
10 or so days. also, unfortunate for me, i get psychologically
addicted
cause they fell real cozy when i am on them, and when my meds run out
from taking well over my dose i do not call the doc for more pills.
i go cold turkey for a couple days, feel like crap but it passes then
i
wait about 8-9 days for my refill and go back to using them, mostly
for
the pain, when i am on them i can do everyday tasks without serious
back pain, and when i am not, those simple tasks that we normally take
for granted, like washing dishes are very painful.
Here is my advice; you probably can get some counter-active drug from
your doc, if he will not help, find one that will. Or just grin and
bear it, it will be over in 2-3 days, 4 at the most and you will be
done with it.
Good Luck
Will I must say I do virtually the same thing, about 120 pills of
Norco 10/325 last me about 15-20 days, then I suffer through
the rest of the month with some help from Ultram but I do feel
the pain a lot more and some withdrawal nasties, I have actually
mentioned this to my Doc and told him how I am taking them
which is within the boundary he writes (1-1.5 pills every 4-6 hrs),
and he feels maybe I am being under medicated and wants to
put me on methadone instead of the Norco, I just do not want
to step up to methadone, regardless of how long it lasts because
I am scared of addiction to such a strong med.
Patrick
Many good points have been made, I for one make sure that I never
have more than 3000 mg of any acetaminophen in any given day.
There are few choices out there though. 1) I do not want to be on a
schedule II drug: 2) Most doctors are under great pressure not to
give any patient, chronic pain or not, schedule II opiates on a regular
and continuous amount, 3) they do not make hydrocodone bitartrate
without APAP, at least in pill form.
So this leaves me and others having to ingest a drug that has never been
proven to be a good prostaglandin inhibitor, and a horrible liver toxic
chemical in every type of hydrocodone bitartrate pill on the market.
If the DEA is so upset about doctors prescribing Oxycontin and there are
so many abusing it, then why not develop something like a long acting
hydrocodone preparation without APAP and thus reduce the abuse
potential? For that matter, how about developing an NSAID pill that
works as well as Toradol injections do?
We have a long way to go and I am afraid that we really need the
pharmaceutical companies behind us to help so that a chronic pain
patient's options are not limited to opiates and if they are, how about
less addictive opiates.
Patrick
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John S. Dyson
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
|
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|
In article <bE_1e.10842$S46.2285@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> writes:
| Quote: |
There are few choices out there though. 1) I do not want to be on a
schedule II drug: 2) Most doctors are under great pressure not to
give any patient, chronic pain or not, schedule II opiates on a regular
and continuous amount, 3) they do not make hydrocodone bitartrate
without APAP, at least in pill form.
You could use 5mg Oxycodone without APAP. I suppose that would |
be approx equiv to 7.5mg Hydrocodone Vicodin, except without APAP.
Both Oxycodone and Hydrocodone are CII when alone in a pill. I seem
to remember that 5mg Hydrocodone might be available (but uncommon?)
| Quote: |
So this leaves me and others having to ingest a drug that has never been
proven to be a good prostaglandin inhibitor, and a horrible liver toxic
chemical in every type of hydrocodone bitartrate pill on the market.
It does seem to be incredibly tempting for addicts to screw up their |
liver. Is a dead liver or addiction worse? Both probably suck, but
a dead liver is nearly a death sentence, while addiction is probably
mostly just painful/inconvienient and an indicator of health risk.
| Quote: |
If the DEA is so upset about doctors prescribing Oxycontin and there are
so many abusing it, then why not develop something like a long acting
hydrocodone preparation without APAP and thus reduce the abuse
potential?
Aren't Hydrocodone and Oxycodone both fairly equivalent in abuse potential, |
perhaps with Oxy being SLIGHTLY worse? AFAIR, the big thing about
Hydrocodone is that it has some specific advantages for cough/cold? My
guess (I dont know) is that Hydrocodone might have a few more side
effects in high dose due to its beneficial effects for cough
sufferers? Might this be one reason why high dosage Oxycodone
medications are more common than high dosage Hydrocodone?
| Quote: |
For that matter, how about developing an NSAID pill that
works as well as Toradol injections do?
I am NOT a chronic pain patient or a drug lover, but I have been amazed |
as to the pain killing ability of Vioxx (for my pain, significantly better
than either normal/small dose Codeine, Hydrocodone or Oxycodone.) Too
bad that the only medicine that has gotten rid of my occasional body
aches is now off the market. (I dont' take Vioxx regularly -- and
now, I never take it.)
| Quote: |
We have a long way to go and I am afraid that we really need the
pharmaceutical companies behind us to help so that a chronic pain
patient's options are not limited to opiates and if they are, how about
less addictive opiates.
Perhaps one 'interesting' approach would be to balance a Naltrexone/Naloxone |
and Oxy/Hydro combo. This would strongly dissuade the IV abusers, perhaps
antagonize some of the addictive effects of the narcotics, but also still
provide some pain killing? It seems like a weak antagonist that is
partially disabled by digestion, along with the oxycodone thingie, would
be very useful for dissuading IV abuse (e.g. naloxone?) The biggest bad
thing might be the addict who think that they get a bonanza by obtaining
some naloxone spiked drugs, and then a very unpleasant -- perhaps almost
deadly -- effect occurs when they inject them...
Perhaps the worst enemy of the pain patient isn't the stingy doctor,
the vigilant pharmacist, or the DEA -- but it is those who divert the drugs
so that the authorities become more worried about abuse issues.
John |
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John S. Dyson
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
|
|
|
In article <8didnVSX5K726tXfRVn-3w@comcast.com>,
"halo2 guy" <somewhereovethe@rainbow.com> writes:
| Quote: | They may be under great pressure to not prescribe those c-II drugs but they
are there for a reason and if you are having the qualifying pain then you
should get a c-II. Codeine is in a form by itself. I see patients all the
time that are continously on Oxy and they are not abusing it. There are
many forms of these meds that could probably help you out. I wouldn't let
whether or not a drug is a C-II determine whether or not I would get it.
I would agree... If a CII would help me to function, I'd certainly |
lobby to get it -- with total lack of guilt. I used to take a non-painkiller
CII, and I never felt guilty. However, I hated it when I'd run out of
meds when out of town, and I quit the meds BECAUSE of the inevitable
depletion of my supply. Sometimes the pharmacist would be helpful,
and I did have some meds shipped from home to my travel desination, but
it was incredibly inconvienient, and unpleasant when running out.
I'd strongly be biased towards a non-CII unless only CIIs would work.
John |
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Patrick
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 30
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
|
|
|
"John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:d2a0da$1r0t$1@news.iquest.net...
| Quote: | In article <bE_1e.10842$S46.2285@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> writes:
There are few choices out there though. 1) I do not want to be on a
schedule II drug: 2) Most doctors are under great pressure not to
give any patient, chronic pain or not, schedule II opiates on a regular
and continuous amount, 3) they do not make hydrocodone bitartrate
without APAP, at least in pill form.
You could use 5mg Oxycodone without APAP. I suppose that would
be approx equiv to 7.5mg Hydrocodone Vicodin, except without APAP.
Both Oxycodone and Hydrocodone are CII when alone in a pill. I seem
to remember that 5mg Hydrocodone might be available (but uncommon?)
So this leaves me and others having to ingest a drug that has never been
proven to be a good prostaglandin inhibitor, and a horrible liver toxic
chemical in every type of hydrocodone bitartrate pill on the market.
It does seem to be incredibly tempting for addicts to screw up their
liver. Is a dead liver or addiction worse? Both probably suck, but
a dead liver is nearly a death sentence, while addiction is probably
mostly just painful/inconvienient and an indicator of health risk.
If the DEA is so upset about doctors prescribing Oxycontin and there are
so many abusing it, then why not develop something like a long acting
hydrocodone preparation without APAP and thus reduce the abuse
potential?
Aren't Hydrocodone and Oxycodone both fairly equivalent in abuse
potential,
perhaps with Oxy being SLIGHTLY worse? AFAIR, the big thing about
Hydrocodone is that it has some specific advantages for cough/cold? My
guess (I dont know) is that Hydrocodone might have a few more side
effects in high dose due to its beneficial effects for cough
sufferers? Might this be one reason why high dosage Oxycodone
medications are more common than high dosage Hydrocodone?
For that matter, how about developing an NSAID pill that
works as well as Toradol injections do?
I am NOT a chronic pain patient or a drug lover, but I have been amazed
as to the pain killing ability of Vioxx (for my pain, significantly better
than either normal/small dose Codeine, Hydrocodone or Oxycodone.) Too
bad that the only medicine that has gotten rid of my occasional body
aches is now off the market. (I dont' take Vioxx regularly -- and
now, I never take it.)
We have a long way to go and I am afraid that we really need the
pharmaceutical companies behind us to help so that a chronic pain
patient's options are not limited to opiates and if they are, how about
less addictive opiates.
Perhaps one 'interesting' approach would be to balance a
Naltrexone/Naloxone
and Oxy/Hydro combo. This would strongly dissuade the IV abusers, perhaps
antagonize some of the addictive effects of the narcotics, but also still
provide some pain killing? It seems like a weak antagonist that is
partially disabled by digestion, along with the oxycodone thingie, would
be very useful for dissuading IV abuse (e.g. naloxone?) The biggest bad
thing might be the addict who think that they get a bonanza by obtaining
some naloxone spiked drugs, and then a very unpleasant -- perhaps almost
deadly -- effect occurs when they inject them...
Perhaps the worst enemy of the pain patient isn't the stingy doctor,
the vigilant pharmacist, or the DEA -- but it is those who divert the
drugs
so that the authorities become more worried about abuse issues.
John
|
Thanks for your post John, you make some great points. I would like
to elaborate further, without trying to beat a dead horse.
I may be naive, but I do think that Hydrocodone has less abuse potential.
I think this only from my own experience in that I have been on both
Norco 10/325 and Percocet 5/325 and found that the hydrocodone
bitartrate did not make me feel "euphorogenic" and "loopy" but it does
dull the pain and helps me to be functional enough to work full time.
I am an engineer and drive about 400 miles a week between sites and
the Norco helps me to remain pain free enough to work without problems.
I have been on Vioxx and Celebrex which worked GREAT! But with my
family history of cardiac problems and my own high cholesterol with a
horrible LDL to HDL ratio ( am on 40 mg lipitor HS), my doctor does
not want me on a Cox II inhibitor. So I make it on mobic (not near the
relief as celebrex) and Norco 2-3 times per day regularly.
You are perfectly right in that the DEA and the government is not why
the Doctors have all the pressure on them, but those that abuse the
substances and divert, fraudulently alter scripts and try to fake symptoms
to get medications.
I hope they come up with a system with naltrexone or naloxone beads
in the opiate pills so that Doctors and the DEA feel more comfortable
with doctors prescribing them without addicts shooting them up or
chewing them up or crushing them and snorting them. I have heard
horror stories and worked for several years part time as a substance
abuse counselor.
Good post with good issues, thanks for your post John.
--
Patrick H. Mason M.S. OHST, EMT-I |
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Dr. Wayne Simon
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:26 am Post subject:
Re: Practical Pharmacology Handbook?
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there is no good book for the lay person, but u might want to start with
remingtons pharmacopoeia. |
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John S. Dyson
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:41 am Post subject:
Re: Vicodin withdrawal info?
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In article <dQ22e.11014$S46.10716@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"Patrick" <jimmyk@mindspring.com> writes:
| Quote: |
Thanks for your post John, you make some great points. I would like
to elaborate further, without trying to beat a dead horse.
I may be naive, but I do think that Hydrocodone has less abuse potential.
I think this only from my own experience in that I have been on both
Norco 10/325 and Percocet 5/325 and found that the hydrocodone
bitartrate did not make me feel "euphorogenic" and "loopy" but it does
dull the pain and helps me to be functional enough to work full time.
That obviously shows that Hydrocodone is safer for you (and you are probably |
right that it might have a little less abuse potential.) It appears
that the 'heavy abuse' comes from Oxycodone/Heroin/etc -- so maybe
your observations have wider applicability.
| Quote: |
I am an engineer and drive about 400 miles a week between sites and
the Norco helps me to remain pain free enough to work without problems.
I understand about the possibility that meds can affect work, both |
positive and negative. My own previous medication wasn't pain killing,
but the meds did have positive effect. Luckly, I don't really NEED the
drugs, and I found the problems with missing the dose and withdrawal
issues made me very untrusting about being dependent on anything -- even
if properly prescribed. The major difference for me is that I have
a little less ability to focus and have an incredibly disfunctional
short term memory.
| Quote: |
I have been on Vioxx and Celebrex which worked GREAT! But with my
family history of cardiac problems and my own high cholesterol with a
horrible LDL to HDL ratio ( am on 40 mg lipitor HS), my doctor does
not want me on a Cox II inhibitor. So I make it on mobic (not near the
relief as celebrex) and Norco 2-3 times per day regularly.
I guess you are being safe rather than sorry. It is so very sad that |
the CoxII inhibitors have so much risk. I cannot take any of the normal
NSAIDS, because I start nosebleeding and have bleeding problems almost
every place else. (I am good for 1-2 doses of Ibu/Keto/Aspirin/Naproxin
before bleeding becomes an issue.)
Once, when I had taken Vioxx, when hanging around family members, they
though that I was 'high'. OF course, I was feeling really good
because of the pain/stiffness relief.
| Quote: |
You are perfectly right in that the DEA and the government is not why
the Doctors have all the pressure on them, but those that abuse the
substances and divert, fraudulently alter scripts and try to fake symptoms
to get medications.
Those things do wire themselves into a person's brain... I do fault the |
person who diverts the drug -- the 'pusher' more than the addict. Some
of the 'pushers' are those who get the meds for semi-legal reasons, but
don't take the meds themselves and sell them. The few times that I have
had to take the stronger narcotic pain killers, I can understand that
they feel good. I have read that the withdrawal isn't quite the same
mechanism as the 'feel good' phase, and it can creep up on the user
without being easily detectable. My own CII scrip (Ritalin) really
didn't cause me any euphoria, and sometimes had an odd effect of making
me sleepy. Frankly, I don't think that I liked the feeling of Ritalin.
| Quote: |
I hope they come up with a system with naltrexone or naloxone beads
in the opiate pills so that Doctors and the DEA feel more comfortable
with doctors prescribing them without addicts shooting them up or
chewing them up or crushing them and snorting them. I have heard
horror stories and worked for several years part time as a substance
abuse counselor.
Agreed -- it is sad when someone is in pain and the only doctors |
that they can find are fearful of prescribing the needed meds. If
I was a doctor, I'd be a little skeptical also. Naturally, I'd feel
kind of bad if I got someone hooked.
| Quote: |
Good post with good issues, thanks for your post John.
Well, thank you very much. I find chemistry and pharmacology to be |
interesting, but I am too old to start anew in such wide fields.
John |
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