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John
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

No excuse for what?

Humans had never taken this drug before. The first time a human
ingests a chemical is an adventure with an unpredicable outcome. The
preclinical data must have satisfied the drug regulators so they gave
the OK to test in humans. We do that all the time.

But,- if the dose given to the volunteers was incorrectly prepared or
if the developing company was less than truthful in reporting the
results of animal testing, there will certainly be trouble and
rightfully so.
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Dr. Wayne Simon
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

"John" <jmennear1@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1142556804.578234.58180@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
No excuse for what?

Humans had never taken this drug before. The first time a human
ingests a chemical is an adventure with an unpredicable outcome. The
preclinical data must have satisfied the drug regulators so they gave
the OK to test in humans. We do that all the time.

But,- if the dose given to the volunteers was incorrectly prepared or
if the developing company was less than truthful in reporting the
results of animal testing, there will certainly be trouble and
rightfully so.

This should tell the peta people why it is so important to do research on
drugs in multiple species before we try the drugs in humans. Because the
drug hopefully was tested in multiple species, both herbivores, omnivores,
and carnivores, it was very surprising that such an intolerable reaction
occurred in humans. Imagine if we took all drugs directly from molecular
biology engineering, and tried them immediately in humans. This kind of
thing would happen more often. Luckily animal studies have prevented this
type of thing from occurring from various potential dugs. Of course peta
could say look what happenned despite animal testing? And what did all
those animals have to be experimented on, and even sacrificed for? But I
will say this I would not put a human on a drug trial unless that drug had
tested safely in multiple species.
>
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Wordsmith
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

John wrote:
Quote:
No excuse for what?

Humans had never taken this drug before. The first time a human
ingests a chemical is an adventure with an unpredicable outcome. The
preclinical data must have satisfied the drug regulators so they gave
the OK to test in humans. We do that all the time.

But,- if the dose given to the volunteers was incorrectly prepared or
if the developing company was less than truthful in reporting the
results of animal testing, there will certainly be trouble and
rightfully so.

I meant the circumstances of your second paragraph, of course. Thanks.


W : )
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John
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

Quote:
I would not put a human on a drug trial unless that drug had
tested safely in multiple species.



I spend my time doing preclinical studies and have watched numerous
"drugs" that possess a world of potential go down the tube because of
an unexpected toxicity in a rat, dog, or monkey. But even at that I,
like most other preclinical guys, worry about the toxicity we are not
yet smart enough to predict. Things like NSAID hypersensitivy or the
cardiovascular effects (in some people) of the COX-2 inhibitors.

But it won't be long and we'll know how to predict these adverse
events,-- then the next clinical surprise will be upon us. It's what
keeps me getting up in the morning!
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andytyler
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

There was an interesting article in the English newspaper The Daily
Telegraph recently.
It mentions new technology that can make this kind of research safer.
It mentions a Boston based company called Osmetech that has developed a

couple of devices called esensor which can test dna reactions and
Optigene a piece of equipment slightly bigger than a laptop computer
which will help scientists in labs and doctors in hospitals find
information such as a person's metabolism. Such relatively simple
information can make a lot of difference in deciding on what dose to
give a patient and even whether the medicine will work at all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/03/18/ccm...



http://www.osmetech.com/products/esensor/
http://www.osmetech.com/products/optigene/
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Repeating Rifle
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

I see many posts on this subject but little in the way of fact.

Where can I find a summary of what is KNOWN about this incident in terms of
the chemistry and biology involved?

Bill
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John
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

Salmon Egg wrote:
Quote:
I see many posts on this subject but little in the way of fact.

Where can I find a summary of what is KNOWN about this incident in terms of
the chemistry and biology involved?

Bill

I too would like to see a summary of facts about the specific incident
but I think it will be some time before it appears in either the lay or
scientific literature. I'm checking out a company called TeGenero and
looking for info on the drug - TGN1412 - which activates T lymphocytes.
But I suspect I may be telling you stuff you already know.
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Repeating Rifle
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

On 3/19/06 4:04 PM, in article
1142813093.333443.96010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com, "John"
<jmennear1@nc.rr.com> wrote:

Quote:
I too would like to see a summary of facts about the specific incident
but I think it will be some time before it appears in either the lay or
scientific literature. I'm checking out a company called TeGenero and
looking for info on the drug - TGN1412 - which activates T lymphocytes.
But I suspect I may be telling you stuff you already know.

I really know almost nothing about the incident other that it produced some
very sick people. I know nothing about the background either.

Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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hawki63
medicine forum addict


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

"John" <jmennear1@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1142813093.333443.96010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Salmon Egg wrote:
I see many posts on this subject but little in the way of fact.

Where can I find a summary of what is KNOWN about this incident in terms
of
the chemistry and biology involved?

Bill

I too would like to see a summary of facts about the specific incident
but I think it will be some time before it appears in either the lay or
scientific literature. I'm checking out a company called TeGenero and
looking for info on the drug - TGN1412 - which activates T lymphocytes.
But I suspect I may be telling you stuff you already know.


funny...it made the front page of the LATIMES....a very long and detailed
article...
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Wordsmith
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

hawki63 wrote:
Quote:
"John" <jmennear1@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1142813093.333443.96010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Salmon Egg wrote:
I see many posts on this subject but little in the way of fact.

Where can I find a summary of what is KNOWN about this incident in terms
of
the chemistry and biology involved?

Bill

I too would like to see a summary of facts about the specific incident
but I think it will be some time before it appears in either the lay or
scientific literature. I'm checking out a company called TeGenero and
looking for info on the drug - TGN1412 - which activates T lymphocytes.
But I suspect I may be telling you stuff you already know.


funny...it made the front page of the LATIMES....a very long and detailed
article...

Drudge had it on his site...but he didn't leave it up very long.


W : )
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Herman Rubin
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: London Drug Trial Goes Horribly Wrong Reply with quote

In article <1142813093.333443.96010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
John <jmennear1@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Quote:
Salmon Egg wrote:
I see many posts on this subject but little in the way of fact.

Where can I find a summary of what is KNOWN about this incident in terms of
the chemistry and biology involved?



Quote:
I too would like to see a summary of facts about the specific incident
but I think it will be some time before it appears in either the lay or
scientific literature. I'm checking out a company called TeGenero and
looking for info on the drug - TGN1412 - which activates T lymphocytes.
But I suspect I may be telling you stuff you already know.

There is an article about it in the online publication of
the British journal _Nature_. It seems that the drug binds
to a receptor on the surface of the infection-fighting
T cells, and causes them to go off at the slightest provocation.

For details, I suggest you read the article; I have made a
summary which omits the technical details.

--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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Pumbaa
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Anybody know where I can buy syringe, I don't have a prescription thanks Reply with quote

If you lived in rural Mississippi you could go to a farm feed store and find
all kinds of injectable medications for horses, cows, goats, sheep, so
forth. The needles and syringes are also there so you can inject your
livestock.

I take it that you don't live in a 'free' State but some place like
California where they try to regulate everything but wine.
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Monkey
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Anybody know where I can buy syringe, I don't have a prescription thanks Reply with quote

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:47:48 -0500, "Pumbaa"
<pinkertonjames@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
If you lived in rural Mississippi you could go to a farm feed store and find
all kinds of injectable medications for horses, cows, goats, sheep, so
forth. The needles and syringes are also there so you can inject your
livestock.

I take it that you don't live in a 'free' State but some place like
California where they try to regulate everything but wine.


Thanks for the info, in fact I was thinking more about a website, I
found some website who sell medicine without prescription but none of
them sell syringe... I f somebody have one please tell me thanks!
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Eru Ilúvatar
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: hydroxyzine Reply with quote

memerider <poodlebreeze@netscape.net> wrote:

Quote:
As an allergy sufferer, to my knowledge, Vistaril has traditionally
been indicated to treat symptoms similar to some of those treated by
drugs such as benadryl--to dry up mucus due to allergic rhinitis and as
a light sleeping aid. Are there other common off-label uses you are
aware of?

It's just an antihistamine with a sedation side effect. There's
nothing special about hydroxyzine.
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Dr. Wayne Simon
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: hydroxyzine Reply with quote

"Eru Ilúvatar" <alsimak_three@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:666$H3.43f67.515O.MiNIsGaY.8cT0703.K$00zlaF0.wy$f00K26350004@8g344f7315.4b3h3036b1...
Quote:
memerider <poodlebreeze@netscape.net> wrote:

As an allergy sufferer, to my knowledge, Vistaril has traditionally
been indicated to treat symptoms similar to some of those treated by
drugs such as benadryl--to dry up mucus due to allergic rhinitis and as
a light sleeping aid. Are there other common off-label uses you are
aware of?

It's just an antihistamine with a sedation side effect. There's
nothing special about hydroxyzine.

There is something special about each and every drug.
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