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Digesting Food too quickly?
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

MMu wrote:
Quote:
MMU:

You will have to buy my book if you want to know the value of using
yogurt in low heat cooking.

I did not ask about cooking yoghurt. Read again.

More evidence of how meticulous he is in his reading.

Quote:
I do have no interest in your book or any other book written with a
heavily
biased viewpoint from someone without practical experience in the
field in
question.

If they do not eat food fried in a great deal of unsaturated fatty
acids, then they are free to ignore the post if they wish, but
there is
plenty of evidence of oxidative stress in gastrointestinal
disorders.
I'm not going to do more research for you, but I have copied and
pasted
one study below which was recently published. Just go to
pubmed.com

World J Gastroenterol. 2005 Jan 21;11(3):403-6. Related
Articles,Links
Lipid peroxidation and antioxidant status in colorectal cancer.
[...]

If you cite a study be sure it is one that has something to do with
the
point you want to proove-
this one is totally off topic. The person in question does not have
colorectal cancer; at least not from what we know.

The study prooves or even mentions none of your claims which were:
1) described symptoms are caused by too much polyunsaturated fatty
acid
ingestion
2) oxidative stress caused described symptoms.

Exactly. It's the classic misunderstanding of cause and effect. All
that abstract says is that cancer cells have less antioxidant
protection and (as a result) more free radical damage, than healthy
colon cells. Just because lipid peroxidation is in the title doesn't
mean it caused the cancer.

MattLB
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MMu
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 418

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

Quote:
MMU:

You will have to buy my book if you want to know the value of using
yogurt in low heat cooking.

I did not ask about cooking yoghurt. Read again.
I do have no interest in your book or any other book written with a heavily
biased viewpoint from someone without practical experience in the field in
question.

Quote:
If they do not eat food fried in a great deal of unsaturated fatty
acids, then they are free to ignore the post if they wish, but there is
plenty of evidence of oxidative stress in gastrointestinal disorders.
I'm not going to do more research for you, but I have copied and pasted
one study below which was recently published. Just go to pubmed.com

World J Gastroenterol. 2005 Jan 21;11(3):403-6. Related Articles,Links
Lipid peroxidation and antioxidant status in colorectal cancer.
[...]


If you cite a study be sure it is one that has something to do with the
point you want to proove-
this one is totally off topic. The person in question does not have
colorectal cancer; at least not from what we know.

The study prooves or even mentions none of your claims which were:
1) described symptoms are caused by too much polyunsaturated fatty acid
ingestion
2) oxidative stress caused described symptoms.

Quote:
Don't be lazy - you had enough energy to write your post. If you want
to play ostrich and ignore the evidence, your body will have to deal
with the consequences.

Polemics.
If you want to be taken seriously you back up what you claim with literature
and do not ask others to try to make any sense of what you say.

Quote:
Skrzydlewska E, Sulkowski S, Koda M, Zalewski B, Kanczuga-Koda L,
Sulkowska M.

Department of Analytical Chemistry, Medical University of Bialystok,
Mickiewicza 2, 15-230 Bialystok, Poland. skrzydle@amb.edu.pl
AIM: Reactive oxygen species (ROS) can induce carcinogenesis via DNA
injury. Both enzymatic and non-enzymatic parameters participate in cell
protection against harmful influence of oxidative stress. The aim of
the present study was to assess the levels of final lipid peroxidation
products like malondialdehyde (MDA) and 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal (4-HNE) in
primary colorectal cancer. Moreover, we analysed the activity of main
antioxidative enzymes, superoxide dismutase (Cu, Zn-SOD), catalase
(CAT), glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px) and glutathione reductase
(GSSRG-R) and the level of non-enzymatic antioxidants (glutathione,
vitamins C and E). METHODS: Investigations were conducted in 81 primary
colorectal cancers. As a control, the same amount of sample was
collected from macroscopically unchanged colon regions of the most
distant location to the cancer. Homogenisation of specimens provided
10% homogenates for our evaluations. Activity of antioxidant enzymes
and level of glutathione were determined by spectrophotometry. HPLC
revealed levels of vitamins C and E and served as a method to detect
terminal products of lipid peroxidation in colorectal cancer. RESULTS:
Our studies demonstrated a statistically significant increase in the
level of lipid peroxidation products (MDA-Adc.muc.-2.65+/-0.48 nmol/g,
Adc.G3-2.15+/-0.44 nmol/g, clinical IV stage 4.04+/-0.47 nmol/g,
P<0.001 and 4-HNE-Adc.muc. -0.44+/-0.07 nmol/g, Adc.G3-0.44+/-0.10
nmol/g, clinical IV stage 0.52+/-0.11 nmol/g, P<0.001) as well as
increase of Cu,Zn-SOD (Adc.muc.-363+/-72 U/g, Adc.G3-318+/-48 U/g,
clinical IV stage 421+/-58 U/g, P<0.001), GSH-Px (Adc.muc. -2143+/-623
U/g, Adc.G3-2005+/-591 U/g, clinical IV stage 2467+/-368 U/g, P<0.001)
and GSSG-R (Adc.muc.-880+/-194 U/g, Adc.G3-795+/-228 U/g, clinical IV
stage 951+/-243 U/g, P<0.001) in primary tumour comparison with normal
colon (MDA-1.39+/-0.15 nmol/g, HNE-0.29+/-0.03 nmol/g, Cu,
Zn-SOD-117+/-25 U/g, GSH-Px-1723+/-189 U/g, GSSG-R-625+/-112 U/g)
especially in mucinous and G3-grade adenocarcinomas as well as clinical
IV stage of colorectal cancer. We also observed a decrease of CAT
activity (Adc.muc. -40+/-14 U/g, clinical IV stage 33+/-18 U/g vs
84+/-17 U/g, P<0.001) as well as a decreased level of reduced
glutathione (clinical IV stage 150+/-48 nmol/g vs 167+/-15 nmol/g,
P<0.05) and vitamins C and E (vit. C-clinical IV stage 325+/-92 nmol/g
vs 513+/-64 nmol/g, P<0.001; vit. E-clinical IV stage 13.3+/-10.3
nmol/g vs 37.5+/-5.2 nmol/g). CONCLUSION: Colorectal carcinogenesis is
associated with serious oxidative stress and confirms that gradual
advancement of oxidative-antioxidative disorders is followed by
progression of colorectal cancer.
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montygram
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

MMU:

You will have to buy my book if you want to know the value of using
yogurt in low heat cooking.

If they do not eat food fried in a great deal of unsaturated fatty
acids, then they are free to ignore the post if they wish, but there is
plenty of evidence of oxidative stress in gastrointestinal disorders.
I'm not going to do more research for you, but I have copied and pasted
one study below which was recently published. Just go to pubmed.com
Don't be lazy - you had enough energy to write your post. If you want
to play ostrich and ignore the evidence, your body will have to deal
with the consequences.

World J Gastroenterol. 2005 Jan 21;11(3):403-6. Related Articles,Links


Lipid peroxidation and antioxidant status in colorectal cancer.

Skrzydlewska E, Sulkowski S, Koda M, Zalewski B, Kanczuga-Koda L,
Sulkowska M.

Department of Analytical Chemistry, Medical University of Bialystok,
Mickiewicza 2, 15-230 Bialystok, Poland. skrzydle@amb.edu.pl

AIM: Reactive oxygen species (ROS) can induce carcinogenesis via DNA
injury. Both enzymatic and non-enzymatic parameters participate in cell
protection against harmful influence of oxidative stress. The aim of
the present study was to assess the levels of final lipid peroxidation
products like malondialdehyde (MDA) and 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal (4-HNE) in
primary colorectal cancer. Moreover, we analysed the activity of main
antioxidative enzymes, superoxide dismutase (Cu, Zn-SOD), catalase
(CAT), glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px) and glutathione reductase
(GSSRG-R) and the level of non-enzymatic antioxidants (glutathione,
vitamins C and E). METHODS: Investigations were conducted in 81 primary
colorectal cancers. As a control, the same amount of sample was
collected from macroscopically unchanged colon regions of the most
distant location to the cancer. Homogenisation of specimens provided
10% homogenates for our evaluations. Activity of antioxidant enzymes
and level of glutathione were determined by spectrophotometry. HPLC
revealed levels of vitamins C and E and served as a method to detect
terminal products of lipid peroxidation in colorectal cancer. RESULTS:
Our studies demonstrated a statistically significant increase in the
level of lipid peroxidation products (MDA-Adc.muc.-2.65+/-0.48 nmol/g,
Adc.G3-2.15+/-0.44 nmol/g, clinical IV stage 4.04+/-0.47 nmol/g,
P<0.001 and 4-HNE-Adc.muc. -0.44+/-0.07 nmol/g, Adc.G3-0.44+/-0.10
nmol/g, clinical IV stage 0.52+/-0.11 nmol/g, P<0.001) as well as
increase of Cu,Zn-SOD (Adc.muc.-363+/-72 U/g, Adc.G3-318+/-48 U/g,
clinical IV stage 421+/-58 U/g, P<0.001), GSH-Px (Adc.muc. -2143+/-623
U/g, Adc.G3-2005+/-591 U/g, clinical IV stage 2467+/-368 U/g, P<0.001)
and GSSG-R (Adc.muc.-880+/-194 U/g, Adc.G3-795+/-228 U/g, clinical IV
stage 951+/-243 U/g, P<0.001) in primary tumour comparison with normal
colon (MDA-1.39+/-0.15 nmol/g, HNE-0.29+/-0.03 nmol/g, Cu,
Zn-SOD-117+/-25 U/g, GSH-Px-1723+/-189 U/g, GSSG-R-625+/-112 U/g)
especially in mucinous and G3-grade adenocarcinomas as well as clinical
IV stage of colorectal cancer. We also observed a decrease of CAT
activity (Adc.muc. -40+/-14 U/g, clinical IV stage 33+/-18 U/g vs
84+/-17 U/g, P<0.001) as well as a decreased level of reduced
glutathione (clinical IV stage 150+/-48 nmol/g vs 167+/-15 nmol/g,
P<0.05) and vitamins C and E (vit. C-clinical IV stage 325+/-92 nmol/g
vs 513+/-64 nmol/g, P<0.001; vit. E-clinical IV stage 13.3+/-10.3
nmol/g vs 37.5+/-5.2 nmol/g). CONCLUSION: Colorectal carcinogenesis is
associated with serious oxidative stress and confirms that gradual
advancement of oxidative-antioxidative disorders is followed by
progression of colorectal cancer.
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

MMu wrote:
Quote:
"montygram" <nazztrader@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115178516.694362.257360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
I had a similar problem when I ate food like falafel, cooked with a
lot
of unsaturated oil, such as corn or "vegetable." The gut gets
irritated from so much oxidative stress that it just eliminates
everything quickly, which is actually good.

"[...]We ate chicken and vegetables tonight[...]"

Where exactly did you read "we fried chicken in oil high in
polyunsaturated
fatty acids for prolonged times" there?

2) please point me to a study where it says that oil rich in
polyunsaturated
fatty acids leads to these described effects.

3) please point me to a study where it says that the described
problem is a
typical effect of high oxidative stress.

Now I cook with butter or
coconut oil at low temperatures (no meat, just things like cheese
or
yogurt).

4) Why are you cooking yoghurt?

MattLB
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MMu
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 418

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

"montygram" <nazztrader@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1115178516.694362.257360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I had a similar problem when I ate food like falafel, cooked with a lot
of unsaturated oil, such as corn or "vegetable." The gut gets
irritated from so much oxidative stress that it just eliminates
everything quickly, which is actually good.

"[...]We ate chicken and vegetables tonight[...]"

Where exactly did you read "we fried chicken in oil high in polyunsaturated
fatty acids for prolonged times" there?

2) please point me to a study where it says that oil rich in polyunsaturated
fatty acids leads to these described effects.

3) please point me to a study where it says that the described problem is a
typical effect of high oxidative stress.

Quote:
Now I cook with butter or
coconut oil at low temperatures (no meat, just things like cheese or
yogurt). With meat, you can boil it, then warm up the other stuff
(like sauce) and then mix them together. Here is a study that I just
read a few minutes ago that points out how bad these oils can be:


Source:
University Of Minnesota

Date:
2005-05-02

Food Fried In Vegetable Oil May Contain Toxic Compound

MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL -- University of Minnesota researchers A. Saari
Csallany, a professor of food chemistry and nutritional biochemistry,
and graduate student Christine Seppanen have shown that when highly
unsaturated vegetable oils are heated at frying temperature (365 F) for
extended periods--or even for half an hour--a highly toxic compound,
HNE (4-hydroxy-trans-2-nonenal) forms in the oil.

Previously, vegetable oils such as soybean, sunflower and corn were
regarded as heart-healthy because of their high levels of linoleic
acid, a polyunsaturated fatty acid. HNE is incorporated into fried food
in the same concentration as it forms in the heated oil. Also, Csallany
and her colleagues have found three toxic HNE-related compounds (known
as HHE, HOE and HDE) in heated soybean oil. They will present their
work at a poster session from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Wednesday, May 4, at the
96th annual meeting of the American Oil Chemists Society in the Salt
Lake City Convention Center.

"HNE is a well known, highly toxic compound that is easily absorbed
from the diet," said Csallany. "The toxicity arises because the
compound is highly reactive with proteins, nucleic acids--DNA and
RNA--and other biomolecules. HNE is formed from the oxidation of
linoleic acid, and reports have related it to several diseases,
including atherosclerosis, stroke, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's,
Huntington's and liver diseases."

Csallany's work underscores the risk of repeated heating, or reusing,
highly unsaturated oils for frying because HNE accumulates with each
heating cycle. In future studies, Csallany and her colleagues plan to
determine how long polyunsaturated oil must be heated at lower
temperatures in order to form HNE and its related compounds. The study
was funded by the University of Minnesota.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050502190054.htm
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Jeff
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1313

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

"Seth" <king.seth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115176178.421670.224460@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
My wife has been having stomach problems for months now.
She claims that when she eats supper at 7:00-7:30. By 9:00-9:30, she
has to run to the bathroom and she swears that she just "pooped" out
the meal that she just ate. Is that even possible and what could the
problem be?
We ate Chicken and vegetables tonight? and the vegetables came out.
Sorry for being so descriptive.

I think your wife needs to talk with her doctor. The fastest food that you
eat should be pooped out should be about 4 or 5 hours. And, then only in a
normally formed stool. Pooping out what she ate 2 hours later indicates and
infection or problem with absorbing the food she ate. She should talk with
her doctor.

Jeff
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montygram
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

I had a similar problem when I ate food like falafel, cooked with a lot
of unsaturated oil, such as corn or "vegetable." The gut gets
irritated from so much oxidative stress that it just eliminates
everything quickly, which is actually good. Now I cook with butter or
coconut oil at low temperatures (no meat, just things like cheese or
yogurt). With meat, you can boil it, then warm up the other stuff
(like sauce) and then mix them together. Here is a study that I just
read a few minutes ago that points out how bad these oils can be:


Source:
University Of Minnesota

Date:
2005-05-02

Food Fried In Vegetable Oil May Contain Toxic Compound

MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL -- University of Minnesota researchers A. Saari
Csallany, a professor of food chemistry and nutritional biochemistry,
and graduate student Christine Seppanen have shown that when highly
unsaturated vegetable oils are heated at frying temperature (365 F) for
extended periods--or even for half an hour--a highly toxic compound,
HNE (4-hydroxy-trans-2-nonenal) forms in the oil.

Previously, vegetable oils such as soybean, sunflower and corn were
regarded as heart-healthy because of their high levels of linoleic
acid, a polyunsaturated fatty acid. HNE is incorporated into fried food
in the same concentration as it forms in the heated oil. Also, Csallany
and her colleagues have found three toxic HNE-related compounds (known
as HHE, HOE and HDE) in heated soybean oil. They will present their
work at a poster session from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Wednesday, May 4, at the
96th annual meeting of the American Oil Chemists Society in the Salt
Lake City Convention Center.

"HNE is a well known, highly toxic compound that is easily absorbed
from the diet," said Csallany. "The toxicity arises because the
compound is highly reactive with proteins, nucleic acids--DNA and
RNA--and other biomolecules. HNE is formed from the oxidation of
linoleic acid, and reports have related it to several diseases,
including atherosclerosis, stroke, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's,
Huntington's and liver diseases."

Csallany's work underscores the risk of repeated heating, or reusing,
highly unsaturated oils for frying because HNE accumulates with each
heating cycle. In future studies, Csallany and her colleagues plan to
determine how long polyunsaturated oil must be heated at lower
temperatures in order to form HNE and its related compounds. The study
was funded by the University of Minnesota.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050502190054.htm
Back to top
Seth
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Digesting Food too quickly? Reply with quote

My wife has been having stomach problems for months now.
She claims that when she eats supper at 7:00-7:30. By 9:00-9:30, she
has to run to the bathroom and she swears that she just "pooped" out
the meal that she just ate. Is that even possible and what could the
problem be?
We ate Chicken and vegetables tonight? and the vegetables came out.
Sorry for being so descriptive.
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