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| Author |
Message |
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:18 am Post subject:
Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group. Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it? What foods do you absolutely
avoid and which have you added?
Assuming it can be done, that is, to significantly
lower cholesterol without statins, how have you folks
gone about it? And how successful have you been? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
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Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:47 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:27:12 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Rita wrote:
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group.
Not all the bandwidth.
Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
For those who are heavier than "ideal," losing weight has helped
countless numbers of people either reduce or obviate their need for
statins and/or other cholesterol lowering medications.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it?
Would suggest you learn about the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
What foods do you absolutely avoid and which have you added?
"It is not what you eat but how much you eat."
But you see I am not obese. Not even slightly overweight. |
I am age 75 and the last thing I want to do is to lose weight
and be a scrawny, feeble old person. I'm just fine with my
weight. I am 5 foot 6 and weigh on average 116 -118. I did
lose weight for reasons I don't fully understand last fall,
because I lost any appetite. And went down to 108 and
it was terrible.
So that is not helpful at all to me to say lose weight.
And if you are telling me that only obese or overweight
people have high cholesterol, I'd say you are a snake oil
salesman.
I asked for specific recommendations on foods that people
have found to lower their cholesterol -- on eating plans
overall to control cholesterol. You give me something that
doesn't apply to me.
Why did you assume I was overweight? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:11 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
Rita wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:27:12 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Rita wrote:
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group.
Not all the bandwidth.
Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
For those who are heavier than "ideal," losing weight has helped
countless numbers of people either reduce or obviate their need for
statins and/or other cholesterol lowering medications.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it?
Would suggest you learn about the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
What foods do you absolutely avoid and which have you added?
"It is not what you eat but how much you eat."
But you see I am not obese. Not even slightly overweight.
I am age 75 and the last thing I want to do is to lose weight
and be a scrawny, feeble old person. I'm just fine with my
weight. I am 5 foot 6 and weigh on average 116 -118. I did
lose weight for reasons I don't fully understand last fall,
because I lost any appetite. And went down to 108 and
it was terrible.
|
Losing appetite (anorexia) can be a sign of illness.
| Quote: | So that is not helpful at all to me to say lose weight.
|
I did not advise you to lose weight. You asked a general question about
ways to lower cholesterol without taking statins. I gave you a general
answer.
| Quote: | And if you are telling me that only obese or overweight
people have high cholesterol, I'd say you are a snake oil
salesman.
|
Thankfully, that is not what I have written.
| Quote: | I asked for specific recommendations on foods that people
have found to lower their cholesterol -- on eating plans
overall to control cholesterol. You give me something that
doesn't apply to me.
|
If you want a specific answer, your question will have to be more
specific.
| Quote: | Why did you assume I was overweight?
|
Generally folks in the U.S. are overweight. Latest estimates are that
85% of folks in the U.S. are overweight.
In your case, being that you are at "ideal" body weight, increasing
regular exercise preferably right before your biggest meal of the day
should help to lower your cholesterol.
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 |
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|
David Rind
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:16 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
Rita wrote:
| Quote: | I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group. Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it? What foods do you absolutely
avoid and which have you added?
Assuming it can be done, that is, to significantly
lower cholesterol without statins, how have you folks
gone about it? And how successful have you been?
|
It depends some on how high the cholesterol level is and why it needs to
be lowered. Very few people are able to stick with a diet that can lower
cholesterol levels to the degree that statins accomplish. For instance,
extreme low fat diets can achieve these sorts of reductions in some
people, but very few people in the US will tolerate such a diet.
Furthermore, if the reason to lower cholesterol is because someone has
known coronary heart disease, it's not clear that all the benefit of
statins can be achieved simply by lowering cholesterol levels by some
other method. Statins appear likely to have other effects that are
important in this situation.
Also, lots of people seem to believe that it is really important to
lower their cholesterol levels, when the actual benefit to be expected
is minimal. If, for instance, someone who has a high cholesterol level
and a 10-year risk of a cardiac event of 3 percent (as might be the case
in a lot of people with a high cholesterol level), reducing the
cholesterol level with a statin would likely decrease that 10-year risk
to about 2 percent. Reducing it with diet would probably not even
decrease the risk by this much. (This is not to suggest that reducing
cholesterol levels is never important -- people with higher risks of
cardiac events can expect much greater risk reductions with statins and
perhaps with other methods of lowering cholesterol.)
--
David Rind
drind@caregroup.harvard.edu |
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| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:18 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:11:23 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Rita wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:27:12 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Rita wrote:
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group.
Not all the bandwidth.
Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
For those who are heavier than "ideal," losing weight has helped
countless numbers of people either reduce or obviate their need for
statins and/or other cholesterol lowering medications.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it?
Would suggest you learn about the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
What foods do you absolutely avoid and which have you added?
"It is not what you eat but how much you eat."
But you see I am not obese. Not even slightly overweight.
I am age 75 and the last thing I want to do is to lose weight
and be a scrawny, feeble old person. I'm just fine with my
weight. I am 5 foot 6 and weigh on average 116 -118. I did
lose weight for reasons I don't fully understand last fall,
because I lost any appetite. And went down to 108 and
it was terrible.
Losing appetite (anorexia) can be a sign of illness.
|
I am aware of that. But my appetite recovered fully and I
am eating well and enjoying my food once again. I neither
undereat or overeat.
| Quote: |
So that is not helpful at all to me to say lose weight.
I did not advise you to lose weight. You asked a general question about
ways to lower cholesterol without taking statins. I gave you a general
answer.
And if you are telling me that only obese or overweight
people have high cholesterol, I'd say you are a snake oil
salesman.
Thankfully, that is not what I have written.
I asked for specific recommendations on foods that people
have found to lower their cholesterol -- on eating plans
overall to control cholesterol. You give me something that
doesn't apply to me.
If you want a specific answer, your question will have to be more
specific.
|
Well, apparently you don't have any info to offer.
| Quote: |
Why did you assume I was overweight?
Generally folks in the U.S. are overweight. Latest estimates are that
85% of folks in the U.S. are overweight.
In your case, being that you are at "ideal" body weight, increasing
regular exercise preferably right before your biggest meal of the day
should help to lower your cholesterol.
|
I don't eat large meals but several small meals a day as a rule.
One thing that keeps my weight in check is the inability to eat
large amounts of food at any one time. That's why, in order to
get the nutrients I need, I have to divide my meals into several
smaller ones.
I realize exercise is important. But I guess you have nothing
to say, or that you care to say, about specific foods that might
help control cholesterol?
| Quote: |
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:31 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:16:54 -0400, David Rind
<drind@caregroup.harvard.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | Rita wrote:
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group. Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it? What foods do you absolutely
avoid and which have you added?
Assuming it can be done, that is, to significantly
lower cholesterol without statins, how have you folks
gone about it? And how successful have you been?
It depends some on how high the cholesterol level is and why it needs to
be lowered. Very few people are able to stick with a diet that can lower
cholesterol levels to the degree that statins accomplish. For instance,
extreme low fat diets can achieve these sorts of reductions in some
people, but very few people in the US will tolerate such a diet.
|
So what would a diet that would substantially lower cholesterol
consist of? Maybe I'm one of the few who could stick with it.
| Quote: |
Furthermore, if the reason to lower cholesterol is because someone has
known coronary heart disease, it's not clear that all the benefit of
statins can be achieved simply by lowering cholesterol levels by some
other method. Statins appear likely to have other effects that are
important in this situation.
|
I don't have known coronary heart disease.
| Quote: |
Also, lots of people seem to believe that it is really important to
lower their cholesterol levels, when the actual benefit to be expected
is minimal. If, for instance, someone who has a high cholesterol level
and a 10-year risk of a cardiac event of 3 percent (as might be the case
in a lot of people with a high cholesterol level), reducing the
cholesterol level with a statin would likely decrease that 10-year risk
to about 2 percent. Reducing it with diet would probably not even
decrease the risk by this much. (This is not to suggest that reducing
cholesterol levels is never important -- people with higher risks of
cardiac events can expect much greater risk reductions with statins and
perhaps with other methods of lowering cholesterol.)
|
Yes, that would be a minimal reduction in risk. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:49 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:52:14 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Foods low in fat/cholesterol and high in dietary fiber should belp with
lowering serum cholesterol, however, these foods will tend to have
larger bulk which may be problematic in your specific case.
|
I eat regularly beans (legumes), whole grain fibers, oat bran,
vegetables and fruits. I could easily go to a vegan diet. And
what I am trying to find out, is what is the optimal diet. I
also eat nuts and use olive oil. And have begun using plant
sterol, Take Charge is the name I think.
| Quote: |
Some foods (ie Red Yeast Rice) will also contain statins or statin-like
substances, thereby also lowering cholesterol but you did specify
earlier that you wanted to avoid this.
|
Yes, I would prefer to. Because statins have caused me some
muscle pain and weakness. I'm off them right now and will see if
the problem improves. And consult my doctor, but right now I'm
waiting to see if these symptoms reverse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:52 am Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
Rita wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:11:23 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Rita wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:27:12 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Rita wrote:
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group.
Not all the bandwidth.
Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
For those who are heavier than "ideal," losing weight has helped
countless numbers of people either reduce or obviate their need for
statins and/or other cholesterol lowering medications.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it?
Would suggest you learn about the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
What foods do you absolutely avoid and which have you added?
"It is not what you eat but how much you eat."
But you see I am not obese. Not even slightly overweight.
I am age 75 and the last thing I want to do is to lose weight
and be a scrawny, feeble old person. I'm just fine with my
weight. I am 5 foot 6 and weigh on average 116 -118. I did
lose weight for reasons I don't fully understand last fall,
because I lost any appetite. And went down to 108 and
it was terrible.
Losing appetite (anorexia) can be a sign of illness.
I am aware of that. But my appetite recovered fully and I
am eating well and enjoying my food once again. I neither
undereat or overeat.
So that is not helpful at all to me to say lose weight.
I did not advise you to lose weight. You asked a general question about
ways to lower cholesterol without taking statins. I gave you a general
answer.
And if you are telling me that only obese or overweight
people have high cholesterol, I'd say you are a snake oil
salesman.
Thankfully, that is not what I have written.
I asked for specific recommendations on foods that people
have found to lower their cholesterol -- on eating plans
overall to control cholesterol. You give me something that
doesn't apply to me.
If you want a specific answer, your question will have to be more
specific.
Well, apparently you don't have any info to offer.
|
See below.
| Quote: | Why did you assume I was overweight?
Generally folks in the U.S. are overweight. Latest estimates are that
85% of folks in the U.S. are overweight.
In your case, being that you are at "ideal" body weight, increasing
regular exercise preferably right before your biggest meal of the day
should help to lower your cholesterol.
I don't eat large meals but several small meals a day as a rule.
One thing that keeps my weight in check is the inability to eat
large amounts of food at any one time. That's why, in order to
get the nutrients I need, I have to divide my meals into several
smaller ones.
I realize exercise is important. But I guess you have nothing
to say, or that you care to say, about specific foods that might
help control cholesterol?
|
Foods low in fat/cholesterol and high in dietary fiber should belp with
lowering serum cholesterol, however, these foods will tend to have
larger bulk which may be problematic in your specific case.
Some foods (ie Red Yeast Rice) will also contain statins or statin-like
substances, thereby also lowering cholesterol but you did specify
earlier that you wanted to avoid this.
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oliverio
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
Go straight vegetarian.
Lowered mine from 215 to 150.
"Rita" <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l86oa1pigeiudgl96oeoq05djfvk6obu8p@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group. Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it? What foods do you absolutely
avoid and which have you added?
Assuming it can be done, that is, to significantly
lower cholesterol without statins, how have you folks
gone about it? And how successful have you been? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
Rita wrote:
| Quote: |
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:52:14 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Foods low in fat/cholesterol and high in dietary fiber should belp with
lowering serum cholesterol, however, these foods will tend to have
larger bulk which may be problematic in your specific case.
I eat regularly beans (legumes), whole grain fibers, oat bran,
vegetables and fruits. I could easily go to a vegan diet. And
what I am trying to find out, is what is the optimal diet.
|
Optimal can vary quite a bit from person to person and depends on your
goals.
| Quote: | I
also eat nuts and use olive oil. And have begun using plant
sterol, Take Charge is the name I think.
|
Then you are going beyond just lifestyle changes. Taking plant sterols
is tantamount to taking a medication.
| Quote: | Some foods (ie Red Yeast Rice) will also contain statins or statin-like
substances, thereby also lowering cholesterol but you did specify
earlier that you wanted to avoid this.
Yes, I would prefer to. Because statins have caused me some
muscle pain and weakness. I'm off them right now and will see if
the problem improves. And consult my doctor, but right now I'm
waiting to see if these symptoms reverse.
|
Out of curiosity, what is your fasting lipid profile, anyway?
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
"Rita" <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:r5eoa1ll5hekfhl125tpm0sq14tuan2fuh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I don't have known coronary heart disease.
Then why do you need your cholesterol. lowered if you have not gotten heart |
disease already being in you your seventies?
Target LDL levels are based on co-morbid conditions such as diabetes and
hypertension which contribute to heart disease and again you don't have
heart disease.
If you tell people why then one can suggest to what extent an intervention
you need.
You are not over weight so my impression is that it is not dietary foods
that is contributing to your lipids. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:55:38 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Out of curiosity, what is your fasting lipid profile, anyway?
I began Zocor in September and took it for four months. |
Then had a cholesterol test and results were:
Total C = 198 (Down from 261 in Sept.)
LDL = 96
HDL + 84
Ratio = 2.4
The report didn't list tryglycerides although my doc
has that info.
I stopped taking Zocor after this doctor visit because
I had had loss of appetite and muscle pains and weakness.
I began it again May 11, took it for about 2 weeks, pains
returned so I stopped again. Haven't had a new profile.
So you see Zocor was quite effective. I was not careful of
what I ate during that period as my appetite was bad and I
ate anything at all that remotely appealed to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:39:57 -0700, "Robert" <Robertitsme@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Rita" <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:r5eoa1ll5hekfhl125tpm0sq14tuan2fuh@4ax.com...
I don't have known coronary heart disease.
Then why do you need your cholesterol. lowered if you have not gotten heart
disease already being in you your seventies?
Target LDL levels are based on co-morbid conditions such as diabetes and
hypertension which contribute to heart disease and again you don't have
heart disease.
If you tell people why then one can suggest to what extent an intervention
you need.
You are not over weight so my impression is that it is not dietary foods
that is contributing to your lipids.
|
I had high blood pressure develop a couple of years ago == it was
about 161, but now is controlled by meds. I never had diabetes.
Nor was overweight. I took no meds until I was age 73. My
cholesterol was over 200 but my doc said my HDL was high and not
to worry about it. But then it when the total reached 261 she
said the received wisdom was to treat anyone with total over 200
now. I guess that is why.
> |
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|
|
Rita
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 180
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Wht I'd Like from This Group
|
|
|
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 07:59:50 -0700, "Oliverio" <peter.oliver@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Go straight vegetarian.
Lowered mine from 215 to 150.
|
That is what I've been considering. Working on it. It
seem the best way.
| Quote: |
"Rita" <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:l86oa1pigeiudgl96oeoq05djfvk6obu8p@4ax.com...
I see the battle of the statins absorbing all the
bandwidth in this group. Which is not terribly
helpful for one who wishes to lower her cholesterol
without statins.
I'd like to learn about specific eating plans people
have used to lower their cholesterol without statins.
If anyone here hss managed to do so. Detail, details,
how did you go about it? What foods do you absolutely
avoid and which have you added?
Assuming it can be done, that is, to significantly
lower cholesterol without statins, how have you folks
gone about it? And how successful have you been?
|
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