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The Great "Mediterranean Diet" Fraud.
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marcia
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

Mr. Natural-Health wrote:
Quote:
marcia wrote:

You can insult me all you want, but I think it's plain to nearly
everyone but you that the real idiot is YOU. You can't back up a single
claim with data, and you can't give a reasoned response to anyone's
questions. No *won't*, but *can't*. That's become ridiculously obvious.

If you find reality insulting, that is your problem.

Want data? Then try reading this thread about a patient being
adversely affected by prescribed medication, the doctor being totally
aware of the side-effect, and being totally indifferent about it.

First of all, **WHAT THREAD**? You didn't provide a link.

Second, even without seeing the thread, who knows the veracity of your
source?

Third, even if your source is valid, and even if that happened, it's
not at all unusual for medications to have side-effects. You don't
mention what the side-effect was, whether it was temporary (or even
fatal), or whether the benefits of the medication outweighed the
discomfort of the side-effects.

Fourth, if the patient was concerned, why didn't he/she seek a second
opinion?

Fifth, it is TOTALLY ILLOGICAL to make broad generalizations about
doctors or medication on the basis of isolated, anecdotal, heresay
reports.

Sixth, for a more detailed response, reread my earlier response to you,
which I repost here with apologies to anyone else who might still be
following this thread:

REPOST:

Quote:
The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Sure. It's so simple that it's wrong.

Just thought you might want to know.


Of course it's wrong! Any good student the 19th-century knows that
*electricity* cures everything. Wink
In the 19th-century, doctors did sometimes prescribe toxic
substances--like arsenic and strychnine--to their patients. And
unlicensed quacks promoted tonics containing turpentine and alcohol.
However, that was over 100 years ago. Medical science has advanced
since then, as has our understanding of chemistry, physiology and
microbiology. Today, all prescription pharmaceuticals (in the US, and
many other developed countries) are subject to lengthy pre-clinical and

clinical trials to *try* to ensure both safety and efficacy before
they're made available to the public.

If you want to argue that the process isn't perfect, you'd be correct.
Yes, many medications have unpleasant side-effects, and yes, sometimes
the side-effects are unexpectedly toxic or deadly. OTOH, advances in
pharmacology have saved many lives, and made many others significantly
more bearable.

If someone who is really sick followed the "natural hygiene" movement
in search of cure, the most likely outcome would be a quicker, more
painful death. What a wonderful recommendation for your side.
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95 Thesen
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since you are not medically challenged, I will
ask you about my Potassium level. I take 3
blood pressure lowering drugs daily. Also I
take at least one 90mg tablet of potassium per
day. My serum potassium stays at 3.6 and I
cannot make it go higher by eating apples,
canned fruit, and prunes regularly !!
One of
my B.P. drugs is a potassium sparing
VALSARTAN. As you probably know, 3.5
is the minimum normal potassium value, and I
think the maximum is 4.5 The other meds are
HCTZ and Metoprolol. Also Valium titrated to
1 mg about 3 times per week.

My occasional low potassium symptoms are
resting rapid pulse and leg cramps.

David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

In article <1147040931.439234.244920@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Mr. Natural-Health <johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com> wrote:
Quote:
David Wright wrote:
The Natural Hygiene Movement observed in the 19th Century that
conventional medicine prescribes toxic drugs that develop side effects.
Then they prescribe more toxic medication to treat the side effects of
the first medications. And, in the end, the patient ends up dying from
the medication that supposedly was taken to save them in the first place.

Can you comprehend that simple concept, Stupid?

Sure. It's so simple that it's wrong.

Wrong!

R. T. Trall, /The True Healing Art: Or, Hygienic vs. Drug Medication/,
(speech given in 1862). New York, Fowler & Wells, Publishers, Reprinted
1880.
http://www.whale.to/v/trall.htm

My, my, my. 1862. What's the problem -- couldn't find any
appropriate quotations from Galen or Hippocrates? The medications
available then have no relation to today.

I thought only Scudamore was dim enough to try to cite sources this
old, but now I see he has a soul brother.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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Mak
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

On Thu, 11 May 2006 02:58:54 GMT, wright@l1000.prodigy.net (David
Wright) Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness of usenet:

this thread is being cross posted to these
sci.med.nutrition,sci.med.cardiology,sci.med

sci.med.cardiology is a known troll group it is always cross posted
too when the thread is meant as a troll post.
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Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Rx for curing High-Blood Pressure the natural way Reply with quote

Sin ganas wrote:
Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since you are not medically challenged, I will
ask you about my Potassium level.

Who are you replying to?

I presume that your primary problem is high blood pressure. And, that
you are diabetic.

Quote:
I take 3
blood pressure lowering drugs daily.

Everything on my web site, will help.
http://naturalhealthperspective.com

Dietary interventions
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/
Exercise interventions
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/exercise/
and Deep Breathing would be the primary therapies.
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/resilience/deep-breathing.html

Obviously, eating a low-salt diet would probably help.

Quote:
Also I
take at least one 90mg tablet of potassium per
day. My serum potassium stays at 3.6 and I
cannot make it go higher by eating apples,
canned fruit, and prunes regularly !!

You get potassium from your diet. You can search on the best food
sources, here.
http://yarrow.best.vwh.net/Usda_data/foods.cgi?state_num=5
Simply change 'calories' to 'potassium' and go through each food group.
Quote:
From previously searching on 'potassium' I noticed that cooking your
food with fresh spices would be an easy and painless way to increase

potassium in your diet.

Whole grains are in fact good for diabetics.
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/whole-grains.html

A high-carb Mediterranean-style diet works for everybody and can in
fact cure Syndrome-X.
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/home/lifestyle-interventions.html
http://food.naturalhealthperspective.com/sevencountriesstudy.html

Quote:
My occasional low potassium symptoms are
resting rapid pulse and leg cramps.

For pulse rate, I believe following an aerobic exercise program for
several months should do it. You do in fact need to progress gradually
from low-intensity to high-intensity aerobics. Walking is a good place
to start. Eventually, using a full-body elliptical trainer at a health
club would be the most painless way to rapidly progress to high
intensity.

I would suggest that you take Magnesium supplements for the leg cramps.
About 1,000 to 1,200 of mg a day should do it. Actually, a magnesium
deficiency could also be causing high-blood pressure. Magnesium should
relax your blood vessels.

I would give this program at least 3 months. Assuming you implement my
suggestions correctly, it should in fact cure your high blood pressure.
Of course, you should be monitoring your blood-pressure. You should
be able to gradually wean yourself off of your high-blood pressure
medication with the help of your physician.
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is a biological factor of the
mind-body connection. Now, weighing in at 18 web pages, the
Nutrition of a Healthy Diet is with more documentation and
sharper terminology than ever before.
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/
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Twittering One
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 523

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

Mack The Nyce
>From Nice, France ~ ?
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Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

In article <1147315069.015157.87290@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Sin
ganas" <dcholiman@ev1.net> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since you are not medically challenged, I will
ask you about my Potassium level. I take 3
blood pressure lowering drugs daily. Also I
take at least one 90mg tablet of potassium per
day. My serum potassium stays at 3.6 and I
cannot make it go higher by eating apples,
canned fruit, and prunes regularly !!
One of
my B.P. drugs is a potassium sparing
VALSARTAN. As you probably know, 3.5
is the minimum normal potassium value, and I
think the maximum is 4.5 The other meds are
HCTZ and Metoprolol. Also Valium titrated to
1 mg about 3 times per week.

My occasional low potassium symptoms are
resting rapid pulse and leg cramps.

David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David,
I suggest that you request from your doctor kidney function
and liver function blood tests. Discuss with your doctor the
results of those blood tests. Please post any items that are
outside the normal limits. I also suggest that you read this
book since it has a chapter entitled:
"Treat Potassium Problems" and another one entitled:
"Treat Gout and and Uric Acic Problems"

Here's the name of the book:
"Coping With Kidney Disease" by Mackenzie Walser, M.D. (kidney specialist)
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

In article <jason-1105061106010001@66-52-22-102.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>,
jason@nospam.com (Jason Johnson) wrote:

In article <1147315069.015157.87290@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Sin
ganas" <dcholiman@ev1.net> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since you are not medically challenged, I will
ask you about my Potassium level. I take 3
blood pressure lowering drugs daily. Also I
take at least one 90mg tablet of potassium per
day. My serum potassium stays at 3.6 and I
cannot make it go higher by eating apples,
canned fruit, and prunes regularly !!
One of
my B.P. drugs is a potassium sparing
VALSARTAN. As you probably know, 3.5
is the minimum normal potassium value, and I
think the maximum is 4.5 The other meds are
HCTZ and Metoprolol. Also Valium titrated to
1 mg about 3 times per week.

My occasional low potassium symptoms are
resting rapid pulse and leg cramps.

David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David,
I suggest that you request from your doctor kidney function
and liver function blood tests. Discuss with your doctor the
results of those blood tests. Please post any items that are
outside the normal limits. I also suggest that you read this
book since it has a chapter entitled:
"Treat Potassium Problems" and another one entitled:
"Treat Gout and and Uric Acic Problems"

Here's the name of the book:
"Coping With Kidney Disease" by Mackenzie Walser, M.D. (kidney specialist)

Update:
I done some more research for you and found out that
a product that you can purchase at a health food store
named "Dandelion" might help you. It contains lots of
potassium but in some cases can cause potassium retention
which would be one of the reasons you might not want to
take it since having high levels of potassium can cause
medical problems.
This is an excellent book that should help you:
"The Acid-Alkaline Diet" by Christopher Vasey, N.D.
If your book store does not have it, visit this site:

www.innertraditions.com
If that does not work, do a google search for
Healing Arts Press
and
Inner Traditions
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: Elevated potassium levels - Help Reply with quote

In article <jason-1105061106010001@66-52-22-102.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>,
Jason Johnson <jason@nospam.com> wrote:
Quote:
In article <1147315069.015157.87290@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Sin
ganas" <dcholiman@ev1.net> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Since you are not medically challenged, I will
ask you about my Potassium level. I take 3
blood pressure lowering drugs daily. Also I
take at least one 90mg tablet of potassium per
day. My serum potassium stays at 3.6 and I
cannot make it go higher by eating apples,
canned fruit, and prunes regularly !!
One of
my B.P. drugs is a potassium sparing
VALSARTAN. As you probably know, 3.5
is the minimum normal potassium value, and I
think the maximum is 4.5 The other meds are
HCTZ and Metoprolol. Also Valium titrated to
1 mg about 3 times per week.

My occasional low potassium symptoms are
resting rapid pulse and leg cramps.

David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David,
I suggest that you request from your doctor kidney function
and liver function blood tests. Discuss with your doctor the
results of those blood tests. Please post any items that are
outside the normal limits. I also suggest that you read this
book since it has a chapter entitled:
"Treat Potassium Problems" and another one entitled:
"Treat Gout and and Uric Acic Problems"

Here's the name of the book:
"Coping With Kidney Disease" by Mackenzie Walser, M.D. (kidney specialist)


David, the best advice anyone here will give you is to ignore jason
completely. He is not a doctor, has no medical training, and usually
has no idea what he's talking about, but none of those things ever
stop him from giving advice.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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vernon
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Omega-3 fatty acids play a vital role in heart health Reply with quote

"Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com> wrote in message
news:1147722309.810888.132280@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
Perhaps this will be of some help. Enjoy your day.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html

Life Extension magazine has an article claiming the fish oil capsules
are safer than fish at:

Good brands give you a higher probability, yes. Good wild salmon is hard to
beat for protein and other essential elements.


Quote:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/oct2005_report_fishoil_01.htm

--
Ron
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noname
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Omega-3 fatty acids play a vital role in heart health Reply with quote

In article <446dec61$0$7963$88260bb3@news-taz.teranews.com>,
"vernon" <there@there> wrote:

Quote:
I just read an article showing that canned sardines were basically as good
as

Sardines are always smoked, so that is bad. You want to limit your
intake of smoked foods.
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Marshall Price
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: `Vitamin B3 can help patients with kidney disorder patients` Reply with quote

What?

Are they saying the "treatment" consisted of cutting off the supply of
niacin? And the result was that serum "phosphorous" levels went down?

And they don't even consider the famous effects of niacin on
hyperlipidemia and ldl cholesterol?

And they don't discuss how much niacin is in these two-rupee pills or
how many they administer?

Reading that article was a waste of time, if you ask me, but I'd be
delighted to see the journal article.


Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
Quote:
" `Vitamin B3 can help patients with kidney disorder patients`", Zee
News, May 16, 2006,
Link:
http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=295743&ssid=28&sid=ENV

A research on kidney diseases at a hospital here has revealed that the
intake of vitamin pill- Vitamin B3 or Niacin- would control phosphate
and thus prevent heart attack in the chronic kidney disorder patients.

Dr Krishnaswamy Sampathkumar, head of nephrology department of
Meenakshi Mission Hospital and Research Centre, who headed the research
team, said hyperphosphatemia (presence of phosphate at high level in
blood) was common in hemodialysis (HD) patients and it caused heart
attack leading to death.

Though all wastes in the blood were removed through the process of HD,
phosphate was not removed and it blocks the coronory arteries.

The vitamin pill, costing Rs two was tried daily on the patients
undergoing HD for eight weeks. It was stopped for two weeks for a small
group and serum phosphorous level was measured. The result was that the
serum phosphorous levels changed significantly from a pre-treatment
level of 7.7_+1.5mg/dl to post treatment level of 5.6_+1mg/dl(p<0.001),
he said.

Two new drugs called "Lanthanum Carbonate and Sevelamer are being used
in the Western countries as solution to the problem. But it is
expensive costing from Rs 1000 to Rs 3000 a year, he said.

Oral Nicotinic Acid (B3) had proved not only safe but also low cost
powerful agent for phosphorous control in dialysis patients. The
international urology and nephrology magazine, a bible for
nephrologists, had published the research work. Canada and United
States had joined the hospital for further research works, he said.

Bureau Report


--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
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Marshall Price
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Dietary methionine plus cholesterol induces myocardial fibrosis Reply with quote

Juhana Harju wrote:
Quote:
The combination of high dietary methionine plus cholesterol induces
myocardial fibrosis in rabbits.


Wasn't it studies in _rabbits_ eating _cholesterol_ (for which they are
utterly maladapted, since herbivores don't get any cholesterol!) that
led to the original, dreadfully persistent, misconception that dietary
cholesterol raised blood cholesterol levels in _humans_? (While
delaying widespread recognition of the concept of "good cholesterol".)

I wonder whether methionine might be similarly alien to their diets,
considering they're not ordinarily big nut-, grain-, or seed-eaters.

And wouldn't it be _especially_ ironic if the myocardial fibrosis they
suffer under these conditions were quite different from anything we
humans tend towards?

Just speculating.

What if we fed them Spam, Easter eggs, Viennese sausages, and Spam, I
wonder? ;-)


--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
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Marshall Price
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Dietary methionine plus cholesterol induces myocardial fibrosis Reply with quote

Can you give us some molecular details about "oxidized cholesterol"?
How does it differ from ordinary cholesterol (mol wt 386.65)? What
other names is it known by?

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
Quote:
Fibrotic heart problems in humans are usually do to long chain fatty
unsaturated acids, which get oxidized in peroxisomes, which generate
lots of free radicals. Was the cholesterol they gave the rabbits
oxidized? It usually is. And rabbits are a terrible model for this,
anyway. Do they eat cholesterol in the wild? Why waste your time with
this kind of "study?" Historically, cholesterol has only been a
problem for people when they've consumed lots of it in the oxidized
form, and even Ancel Keys himself said that overall mortality is lowest
in the people with cholesterol in the 200-220 range, and he didn't know
about oxidized cholesterol at the time (1979).

--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
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drksampath@gmail.com
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: `Vitamin B3 can help patients with kidney disorder patients` Reply with quote

Dear Marshall.
I am the lead author of this article which featured in the
International urology nephrology March 2006 issue and Kidney
International April 2006 about Niacin's efficacy as a potent phosphate
reducing agent in dialysis patients.The abstract of my article can be
had from the PUBMED if you type in "krishanswamy sampathkumar "

THANKS
DR.K.SAMPATHKUMAR
INDIA
Marshall Price wrote:
Quote:
What?

Are they saying the "treatment" consisted of cutting off the supply of
niacin? And the result was that serum "phosphorous" levels went down?

And they don't even consider the famous effects of niacin on
hyperlipidemia and ldl cholesterol?

And they don't discuss how much niacin is in these two-rupee pills or
how many they administer?

Reading that article was a waste of time, if you ask me, but I'd be
delighted to see the journal article.


Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
" `Vitamin B3 can help patients with kidney disorder patients`", Zee
News, May 16, 2006,
Link:
http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=295743&ssid=28&sid=ENV

A research on kidney diseases at a hospital here has revealed that the
intake of vitamin pill- Vitamin B3 or Niacin- would control phosphate
and thus prevent heart attack in the chronic kidney disorder patients.

Dr Krishnaswamy Sampathkumar, head of nephrology department of
Meenakshi Mission Hospital and Research Centre, who headed the research
team, said hyperphosphatemia (presence of phosphate at high level in
blood) was common in hemodialysis (HD) patients and it caused heart
attack leading to death.

Though all wastes in the blood were removed through the process of HD,
phosphate was not removed and it blocks the coronory arteries.

The vitamin pill, costing Rs two was tried daily on the patients
undergoing HD for eight weeks. It was stopped for two weeks for a small
group and serum phosphorous level was measured. The result was that the
serum phosphorous levels changed significantly from a pre-treatment
level of 7.7_+1.5mg/dl to post treatment level of 5.6_+1mg/dl(p<0.001),
he said.

Two new drugs called "Lanthanum Carbonate and Sevelamer are being used
in the Western countries as solution to the problem. But it is
expensive costing from Rs 1000 to Rs 3000 a year, he said.

Oral Nicotinic Acid (B3) had proved not only safe but also low cost
powerful agent for phosphorous control in dialysis patients. The
international urology and nephrology magazine, a bible for
nephrologists, had published the research work. Canada and United
States had joined the hospital for further research works, he said.

Bureau Report


--
Marshall Price of Miami
Known to Yahoo as d021317c
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