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The Great "Mediterranean Diet" Fraud.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Girlfriend tired, has migraine and always cold. Reply with quote

Thanks for all the ideas (and the heated debate!?) everyone. We've
taken on board some good ideas and fuel to go back to the doctors with.


Ben
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MMu
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 418

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Fatty acids may be key to unlock autism Reply with quote

"montygram" <nazztrader@lycos.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1117596787.088323.281640@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I guess you didn't see my post, where I cited the Sinclair study in
which the subject's levels of lipid peroxidation products was 50 times
the danger level, when he went on a high omega 3 PUFA diet. DHA/EPA

Don't you usually go on a rant about markers? Isn't a lipid peroxidation
product a marker as well?

Quote:
counteract arachidonic acid metabolites, which are the primary cause of
just about all "chronic disease" in the West. However, in order to do
so, considering how much AA is in the tissues of Americans these days,
you would have to do what Sinclair did, meaning that you would likely
kill your child before he/she reached adulthood. Remember that the
Eskimos on such diets rarely lived beyond the age of 40, usually dying
of minor traumas or bleeding strokes or shock (from minor injuries).

would you say that eskimos live in an environment comparable to any
civilized western country? how would you estimate medical care among
eskimos? how about fruit and vegetable consumption? vitamin and mineral
status?< comparing the ages here to those in western countries or anywhere
else in the world is meaningless- eskimos live in an extreme environment.

Quote:
The point is that the only way you can "win" is by keeping your
consumption of omega 6s very low.
Now, for those who fear thinking for themselves and can't shake the
idea that these highly dangerous substances (omega 3s and 6s), even
though people like my grandparents never had any source of omega 3s and
are still alive and pretty well, here is what you can do:

This claim is outright ridiculous.. it is impossible to have a diet witout
any w3 fatty acids in it.
Also the type of claim "my grandparents/ a guy i know/ my sister lived x
years so.." is utterly meaningless and not of any scientific significance.

Quote:
If you eat something like a can of sardines once a week, make sure you
eat them with powerful anitoxidants in food form, such as blueberries,
dark chocolate, white tea, etc. A mixture of such foods is better than
just one, because they inhibit the formation of different free radical
species.

Also be sure to not move (the electron transport chain might produce more
oxygen radicals if you do),
not to come in contact with any bacteria (oxidative burst sets produces free
radicals) and of course
not have sex (nitric oxide, a radical, acts as a second messenger here) .
[just in case: this was sarcasm]

Quote:
Also, use raw, organic tahini for your omega 6 source. It has powerful
anitoxidants in it and will inhibit the formation of arachidonic acid
metabolites.
Do not use highly unsaturated oils for cooking, and cook food
containing cholesterol in water, then, once cooked, you can put it in a
sauce after warming the sauce up on a low temperature. Also, avoid
dairy with carrageenan, as well as ultra-pasteurized (and homogenized
as well, if you can find non-homogenized dairy), and don't eat baked
goods that have eggs or dairy, because they use powdered forms that are
high in oxidized cholesterol.

Make sure the diet is not too high in iron, which enhances free radical
reactions that are detrimental.


which boils down pretty much to: don't eat, it might kill you.

Quote:

George Lagergren wrote:
"Roman Bystrianyk" <rbystrianyk@gmail.com> wrote:
Eben Harrell, "Fatty acids may be key to unlock autism", Scotsman, June
1, 2005,
Link: http://news.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=598582005

CHILDHOOD autism may be linked to a deficiency of fatty acids found in
oily fish, Scottish researchers said yesterday.

"Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> replied:
But fish contains MERCURY!

Then use EFAs free of mercury. Recently, I saw a TV
info-commerical from www.icelandhealth.com which said their EFA
product
(Omega 3) is free of mercury.
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Enrico C
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: re:Trans fats Reply with quote

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:55 +0200, MMu wrote in
<news:42a0190b$0$11352$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quote:
"David" <david@david-duval-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:119vkf1jl8u5mc3@news.supernews.com...
Yes, margarine contains trans fat.
I actually prefer butter in small amounts.

.. which also contains trans fats. (produced not by artificial saturation
but by bovine gastric enzymes)

But not nickel, right?

--
Enrico C
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1218

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

Quote:
which also contains trans fats. (produced not by artificial saturation
but by bovine gastric enzymes)


By bovine gut bacteria, you mean.

SBH
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Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: L-Tryptophan Available Reply with quote

On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:24:43 GMT, "George Lagergren"
<gel44@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
Did the FDA lift their ban?

Doubt that. The reaction btw. free amino acid and HOCl from activated
neutrophils (myelo peroxidase) or from eosinophil peroxidase is rather
nasty.

Eating free amino acids increase concentration of free amino acids of
that kind, and if you are ill etc, the carboxylic group becomes
destabilized when the chlorine attacks the amino acid and it is
rearranged into formaldehyde. In far bigger amount than you ever will
be able to make from decomposition of aspartam (on the other side,
phenylalanine and aspartate also do the same, so most possibly, the
Ch3-group btw. phenylalanine and aspartic acid is most possibly not
responsible for formaldehyde formation, but the amino acids after HOCl
attack.

Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 15;37(10):1622-30. Related Articles,
Links


Erratum in:
Free Radic Biol Med.2005 Feb 1;38(3):396.

Corrected and republished in:
Free Radic Biol Med. 2005 Feb 1;38(3):397-405.

Chlorine transfer between glycine, taurine, and histamine: reaction
rates and impact on cellular reactivity.

Peskin AV, Midwinter RG, Harwood DT, Winterbourn CC.


And some related articles.
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Pizza Girl
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 440

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: L-Tryptophan Available Reply with quote

That why you take lysine with them

"Alf Christophersen" <alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote in message
news:crmi9159k22isbbdba6jn6ddok1osu2avi@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:24:43 GMT, "George Lagergren"
gel44@earthlink.net> wrote:

Did the FDA lift their ban?

Doubt that. The reaction btw. free amino acid and HOCl from activated
neutrophils (myelo peroxidase) or from eosinophil peroxidase is rather
nasty.

Eating free amino acids increase concentration of free amino acids of
that kind, and if you are ill etc, the carboxylic group becomes
destabilized when the chlorine attacks the amino acid and it is
rearranged into formaldehyde. In far bigger amount than you ever will
be able to make from decomposition of aspartam (on the other side,
phenylalanine and aspartate also do the same, so most possibly, the
Ch3-group btw. phenylalanine and aspartic acid is most possibly not
responsible for formaldehyde formation, but the amino acids after HOCl
attack.

Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 15;37(10):1622-30. Related Articles,
Links


Erratum in:
Free Radic Biol Med.2005 Feb 1;38(3):396.

Corrected and republished in:
Free Radic Biol Med. 2005 Feb 1;38(3):397-405.

Chlorine transfer between glycine, taurine, and histamine: reaction
rates and impact on cellular reactivity.

Peskin AV, Midwinter RG, Harwood DT, Winterbourn CC.


And some related articles.
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MMu
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 418

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:1117823127.644793.21620@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
which also contains trans fats. (produced not by artificial saturation
but by bovine gastric enzymes)

By bovine gut bacteria, you mean.

yes, i was too vague.
enzymes of bacteria living in the bovine GI system.

Quote:
SBH
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John Sankey
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 286

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

It's going to be fascinating to see how the USDA analyses
develop as they expand their explicit testing for transfats.
At least people may stop viewing them as totally artificial
man-made (='evil') entities.
(with a few exceptions here, of course!)
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Pizza Girl
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 440

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

I didn't know that oils had a gender let alone could change it.

Would oil from nuts be male?

"John Sankey" <bf250@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:d7s7mp$p7$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
Quote:

It's going to be fascinating to see how the USDA analyses
develop as they expand their explicit testing for transfats.
At least people may stop viewing them as totally artificial
man-made (='evil') entities.
(with a few exceptions here, of course!)
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1218

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

Testosteroil vs. Femzoil. Obviously you're not a Futurama fan.
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outrider
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1155

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: multi-drug resistant TB persists Reply with quote

I do not! You are the one implying cure means eradication--ie: gone.
Fini. Kaput. I am saying it is no such thing. Per the document you
received on polio--I suggest control or manage is the word that should
be used. Zee



Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote:
Quote:
So it had the same cure then as it does now. None.

Since you insist on using the word "cure" to mean eradication from the
Earth, no. But if you get TB we can now save your life and keep it from
killing you. That wasn't possible in the last century.

We don't do as well with cancer as TB, but we do make a big impact.
Depending on the cancer, individuals can be treated so as to be
cancer-free at 20 years, from 95% to 5% of the time, depending on the
type of tumor. For all cases (excluding skin cancer) the figure is
about 50% at 20 years. You can therefore look at that glass as half
full or half empty. A century ago, almost nobody survived 20 years
after a serious cancer.

SBH
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1218

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

Quote:
It's going to be fascinating to see how the USDA analyses
develop as they expand their explicit testing for transfats.

At least people may stop viewing them as totally artificial
man-made (='evil') entities.
(with a few exceptions here, of course!) <<


Well, they may actually BE evil. And responsible for some or even most
of the epidemiologic badness of fresh dairy fat products like creme and
butter.

But no, they aren't all man-made. The "natural = goodness" folks are
(as usual) going to just their chops on natural milk trans-fats.

Myself I drink skim milk and eat non-fat cottage cheese, and use liquid
soybean oil based margarine. Ice cream has mostly had to go (which
calorically it was bound to anyway). The killer in my personal diet
deal is cheese. I love the stuff, and the epidemiologic evidence is
VERY mixed. As a result, it's a major dietary guilty pleasure.

As the wag said, poets have been suspiciously silent about cheese.

SBH
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Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Milk not best for strong bones, report finds Reply with quote

On 15 May 2005 09:26:18 -0700, banmilk@hotmail.com wrote:

Quote:
And how about thousands of others reporting similar results in giving
up dairy?......especially those who take their children off the crap
and see runny noses, colds, and flu disappear.
COMMON SENSE should be enough to tell anyone that fluid from diseased
animals shouldn't be a staple food.

It can be expected that in your population, strep throat struck many
millions a year.

It is therefor to be expected that some of them are milk drinkers, and
perhaps a few of them also may have some kind of benefit quitting
drinking milk for a period, at least if they are allergic to milk
proteins.

I for my part have strep throat every year, even without drinking
milk.
Smile
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1218

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Milk not best for strong bones, report finds Reply with quote

Quote:
Just one problem. Dr. Harris, well known dairy industry shill isn't
sane "folks" himself.


As a well-known dairy industry shill, I have just one question.

**Where's my bribe money???**

The Dutch mini cream puffs from Costco left on my doorstep don't count.
I just assumed that was the anti-diary people trying to kill me sweetly
with heart disease. But God, were they good....

Stop that!

SBH
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Rich Murray
medicine forum addict


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Trans fats Reply with quote

**************************************************************

http://www.vegsource.com extensive vegan information

htttp://www.drmcdougall.com practical, delicious healthy diet guidance

http://www.vegsource.com/articles/kradjian_milk.htm
Robert Kradjian MD Discusses Milk

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/971
Joel Fuhrman critique of Atkins diet in "Eat To Live":
Murray 2003.03.01 rmforall

http://www.hyp.ac.uk/cash/index.htm
Consensus Action on Salt and Health

Substitute stevia (at health food stores).
Avoid all products with aspartame and MSG. Gradually reduce alcohol, sugar,
caffeine (coffee, cocoa, and teas), meat, fish, eggs, milk, butter, and
cheese, food additives and colors, fluoride, city water, salt and sodium.
Enjoy organic rice, beans, nuts, almond butter, vegetables, fruits, with
modest use of soy products and sprouted grain breads, flax seed and olive
oils, vitamins and minerals, 4-8 1,000 mg fish oil capsules, and fill your
jugs with deionized water.

In mutual service, Rich

Rich Murray, MA Room For All rmforall@comcast.net 505-501-2298
1943 Otowi Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505 USA
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
group with 184 members, 1,170 posts in a public, searchable archive

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1071
research on aspartame (methanol, formaldehyde, formic acid) toxicity: Murray
2004.04.29 rmforall

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/message/1143
methanol (formaldehyde, formic acid) disposition: Bouchard M et al, full
plain text, 2001: substantial sources are degradation of fruit pectins,
liquors, aspartame, smoke: Murray 2005.04.02 rmforall
**************************************************************

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1117923152.010521.311420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
It's going to be fascinating to see how the USDA analyses
develop as they expand their explicit testing for transfats.
At least people may stop viewing them as totally artificial
man-made (='evil') entities.
(with a few exceptions here, of course!)


Well, they may actually BE evil. And responsible for some or even most
of the epidemiologic badness of fresh dairy fat products like creme and
butter.

But no, they aren't all man-made. The "natural = goodness" folks are
(as usual) going to just their chops on natural milk trans-fats.

Myself I drink skim milk and eat non-fat cottage cheese, and use liquid
soybean oil based margarine. Ice cream has mostly had to go (which
calorically it was bound to anyway). The killer in my personal diet
deal is cheese. I love the stuff, and the epidemiologic evidence is
VERY mixed. As a result, it's a major dietary guilty pleasure.

As the wag said, poets have been suspiciously silent about cheese.

SBH
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