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The Great "Mediterranean Diet" Fraud.
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The Great "Mediterranean Diet" Fraud. Reply with quote

Alf Christophersen wrote:
:: On 23 Mar 2005 14:47:18 -0800, "montygram" <nazztrader@lycos.com>
:: wrote:
::
::: Only oxidized cholesterol is dangerous. Go to pubmed, put in the
::: relevant search words, and see for yourself. The okinawa thing is a
::: complete fraud. Those who did live to very old ages ate pork, raw
::: sugar cane, and guess what - there was no canola oil available in
::: those
::
:: Agree about Canola oil. They used rape seed oil.

Canola oil is a market name for rape seed oil. So it is same stuff.
Montygram's claims about pork eating are not valid. Main protein sources
of Okinawan centenarians are tofu and fish. Pork is eaten very little.

--
Juhana
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montygram
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 825

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The mystery of crohns and UC is no mystery at all Reply with quote

Most of the doctors of today don't, but decades ago Hans Selye realized
it's all about stress, and now that the biochemical implications of
certain kinds of free radical reactions are known, there is no mystery.
Stay away from foods that will cause oxidative stress, such as
unsaturated fatty acids and oxidized cholesterol, and eat plenty of
antioxdiant rich foods, like blueberries, unless you are senstive to
them, but there are plenty of other antioxidant rich foods to choose
from. Yes, psychological stressors can enhance phospholipase A2
release and AA metabolization, leading to too much LTB4, PGE2, etc.,
but if you eat food rich in the saturated fatty acids and low in the
unsaturated fatty acids, such as coconut oil, you should be fine,
though once "disease" occurs, it's much more difficult, because your
body's stress thresholds are lowered in specific ways to dangerous
levels. Good luck.
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Anth
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

simple *plonk*

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:nKOLd.176$ey1.81@fe08.lga...
Quote:

"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41ffa31a$0$121$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
I could silence you if I wished.

And how would you do that?

Anth

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:teMLd.157$PE7.76@fe08.lga...
Why do you want to silence me?


"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41fdd719$0$114$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
Bullshit.
Anth

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:JO6Ld.4771$MZ3.1610@fe08.lga...
Since I am right, I will keep posting the truth.







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Anth
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:YJOLd.175$2h1.50@fe08.lga...
Quote:

"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41ffa2f2$0$118$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...

Big deal he sells stuff, so what difference does that make?

In Real Medicine, the patient is not the person who finances the
experiments. His practice is like charging the gineua pigs rent on their
cages.
Yeah and people are getting well on his treatment.


Quote:
Furthermore, I wonder whether the patient is advised that the treatment is
*experimental* and unproven as to safety and efficacy.

A lot of doctors sell stuff including their skills, and he probably
doesn't
make any profit on the enzymes as he spent 1 million developing them.

I wonder where that information, i.e., how much he spent, came from. As
for
not making a profit, have you examined his balance sheets?

He's no fraud..

There is NO evidence to suggest otherwise, and there are too many
unanswered
questions.

All are is a critic all you can do is name call and ad hominem.
You don't even know the guy.
Anth
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Anth
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

Of course that doesn't matter in Marks eyes since his paws are firmly
grasped on the pharma scumbags.
Anth

"Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QrudnVoZvZXAW2LcRVn-qw@got.net...
Quote:

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:ScMLd.155$0T7.147@fe08.lga...

"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41fdd706$0$105$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
Well first of all you called him a fraud while pushing your thalidomide
'cure' for mm. (and again later on)

Utterly irrelevant to your claims about me. I call him a fraud because he
SELLS his experimental treatments.

You have no evidence that he's a fraud, he's doing research to see if
the
therapy works, so you explain how scientific research is fraud?

He is selling his EXPERIMENTAL treatments to his customers, a/k/a guinea
pigs. REAL medical research is conducted at no financial cost to the
patient. They are evem compensated for their time and travel expenses.

Drug research is sponsored by the drug companies and "uses" patients to
provide clinical trials that is then used to sell their drugs. The payoff
comes later and you and I pay through insurance premiums. Nothing is free
in
this world and to say that their is no cost is laughable.
You either have it pay as you go or pay later for any research period.


Anth

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:kO6Ld.4770$kU3.1801@fe08.lga...

"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41fc5892$0$120$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
Well you are your ilk are responsible for causing doctors problems,

My "ILK"? Sounds like an ad hominem directed at me....

Now, I asked you (see below) to tel lme what sort of problems I am
causing
these doctors. You meerely rephrased the statement without listing
them.

with
your flawed arguments and ad hominems.

Asking that they proved their claims is NOT an ad hominem. Pointing
out
that
they went from initial idea directly to selling is not an ad hominem,
merely
pointing out that they are having their customers...errr...guinea
pigs....errr...customers...finance the testing for them. My arguments
are
far from flawed.

What reason have you possibly got for attacking Dr Gonzalez who is
trying
to
do real science with a therapy he believes is worthy of merit?.

Fraud revolts me.

Anth





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Robert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1700

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:7fTLd.215$R14.108@fe08.lga...
Quote:

"Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QrudnVoZvZXAW2LcRVn-qw@got.net...

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:ScMLd.155$0T7.147@fe08.lga...

"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41fdd706$0$105$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
Well first of all you called him a fraud while pushing your
thalidomide
'cure' for mm. (and again later on)

Utterly irrelevant to your claims about me. I call him a fraud because
he
SELLS his experimental treatments.

You have no evidence that he's a fraud, he's doing research to see
if
the
therapy works, so you explain how scientific research is fraud?

He is selling his EXPERIMENTAL treatments to his customers, a/k/a
guinea
pigs. REAL medical research is conducted at no financial cost to the
patient. They are evem compensated for their time and travel expenses.

Drug research is sponsored by the drug companies and "uses" patients to
provide clinical trials that is then used to sell their drugs. The
payoff
comes later and you and I pay through insurance premiums. Nothing is
free
in
this world and to say that their is no cost is laughable.
You either have it pay as you go or pay later for any research period.

When the patient pays directly for the research, it is bogus research, as
there is no proof of efficacy.
You and I are the patients and everybody pays for the research done by drug

companies which is in the millions to get a drug approved. It makes it no
more bogus for the drug companies to do it their own research that they will
make millions and billions on. People doing research on their own don't have
the resources that the billion dollar companies do.

Quote:



Anth

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:kO6Ld.4770$kU3.1801@fe08.lga...

"Anth" <anon@anon.com> wrote in message
news:41fc5892$0$120$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
Well you are your ilk are responsible for causing doctors
problems,

My "ILK"? Sounds like an ad hominem directed at me....

Now, I asked you (see below) to tel lme what sort of problems I am
causing
these doctors. You meerely rephrased the statement without listing
them.

with
your flawed arguments and ad hominems.

Asking that they proved their claims is NOT an ad hominem.
Pointing
out
that
they went from initial idea directly to selling is not an ad
hominem,
merely
pointing out that they are having their customers...errr...guinea
pigs....errr...customers...finance the testing for them. My
arguments
are
far from flawed.

What reason have you possibly got for attacking Dr Gonzalez who
is
trying
to
do real science with a therapy he believes is worthy of merit?.

Fraud revolts me.

Anth







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John Que
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

<beckwith@wchsys.org> wrote in message
news:1107284533.284939.124760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

John Que wrote:

If you define 4000 to 5000 IU per day during the darker months of
the year as a high dose, you don't know what you are talking about.

Huh? Who defined 4000 IU per day during the darker months of the year
as a high dose? Are you trying to pick a fight or something? Get a
life.

LOL that is rich coming from you. This smells of an evasion on
your part. I cited sources something as you requested.
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Advocate147
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The mystery of crohns and UC is no mystery at all Reply with quote

Montygram,

The cause of crohns is the mind/body connection. Stress will never CAUSE
crohns.. It and food etc. become factors after crohns becomes established.
Adjustments, stress, medications, food,
surgery are all factors in trying to help the illness lessen.
If stresss were a factor in the cause of crohns, every soldier on the front
line would have crohns.
Your entire article is appropriate AFTER crohns has taken hold.
Again the site on the cause is at
http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm
also, xanax, buspar, depakote, flexeril, natural herbs with natural stimulants,
kava kava, st johns wort, can cause crohns in a vulnerable person.
Again, your post refers to lessening the effects of crohns once established.
It is important to know how to avoid the illness in the first place, so that a
normal lifestyle as one had before crohns is maintained.
The difference before and after crohns must be known clearly.
Everyone need not follow your guidelines unless crohns has become the deciding
factor.

Gail
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abc
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

Anth wrote:

Quote:
Of course that doesn't matter in Marks eyes since his paws are firmly
grasped on the pharma scumbags.

Still talking the talk, eh Anth?
What about your handicapped sister. No antibiotics for infections?
No anesthetics if she gets toothcare done?
Would you save her life, if she had a condition that "pharma" could help?
How about that friend with Barrett's and (risk of?) heart disease.
How is he? Is he taking BP or other life-saving medications?
Doctors still monitoring him for esophageal cancer ?
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: How do I avoid simple sugars? Reply with quote

On 1/22/2005 10:01 PM, Paul Kossa wrote:
Quote:
I know "simple sugars" are not the best carbos to eat. Thing is, I'm
no nutritional scientist, so just how in the heck am I supposed to
know if the carbs in a particular food are "simple" or "complex?!" (I
notice on the food labels for carbs, they have "fiber," "other carbs,"
and "sugars." Am I right in assuming that "sugars" is a reference to
the simple carbs . . . or is there something else I should be looking
for?)

avoid processed foods.
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Eric Bohlman
medicine forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Determing taste based on nutrition?? Reply with quote

steinau2004@hotmail.com (Max Mustermann) wrote in
news:320bc3d6.0502010822.6e84d9e1@posting.google.com:

Quote:
Hi all,

I'm just wondering if there is some sort of formula to calculate what
kind of taste (salty, sour, bitter, sweet) an ingredient is.

For example, unsweetened lemon juice. If I have the nutritional
information for 1 cup of lemon juice, can I determine (based on the
nutrients and their amounts) what kind of taste it is.

No, because most of the taste (which is really actually mostly smell) of
foods isn't determined by either macronutrients or micronutrients, which
are all that nutritional-composition reports describe. For example, lemon
juice is sour because it contains a fair amount of citric acid, but citric
acid has no nutritional significance.
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Eric Bohlman
medicine forum addict


Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Is glucose-fructose a disaccharide? Reply with quote

"Java script Dude" <despam2004@yahoo.ca> wrote in
news:1107319579.188889.33680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
I have seen many manufacturers have glucose-fructose on the labels for
products. I know that saying glucose/fructose would be one or the other
but in this case they hyphen should mean that they are binding the
glucose and fructose molecules.
Is that the case and if so why dont they just say sugar?

I'd interpret it as saying that the product may contain varying amounts of
glucose, fructose, and sucrose, depending on which sources of them happened
to be cheaper at the time the particular batch was made.
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Carol Frilegh
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The Splendor Of Splenda? Reply with quote

In article <1107305768.428603.319170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Quote:
The reason being, I
think, that to do so would require us all to admit that we'd been
exposed to a toxin without ever really having as much warning as when
we very deliberatelly buy and swallow a pill. You'd thing that would
make people even angrier, but the opposite happens. I dont' know why.
Perhaps it's so scary, that mostly we try not to think about it.

SBH

Since I developed Multiple Chemical sensitivity, I think about it a lot.
Quote:


--
Diva
*****
The Best Man For The Job Is A Woman
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MattLB
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Determing taste based on nutrition?? Reply with quote

Eric Bohlman wrote:
Quote:

steinau2004@hotmail.com (Max Mustermann) wrote in
news:320bc3d6.0502010822.6e84d9e1@posting.google.com:

Hi all,

I'm just wondering if there is some sort of formula to calculate what
kind of taste (salty, sour, bitter, sweet) an ingredient is.

For example, unsweetened lemon juice. If I have the nutritional
information for 1 cup of lemon juice, can I determine (based on the
nutrients and their amounts) what kind of taste it is.

No, because most of the taste (which is really actually mostly smell) of
foods isn't determined by either macronutrients or micronutrients, which
are all that nutritional-composition reports describe. For example, lemon
juice is sour because it contains a fair amount of citric acid, but citric
acid has no nutritional significance.

Not strictly true - both fat and glucose get converted to citric acid as
part of the energy production process - but it doesn't invalidate your
point.

MattLB
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TC
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: The mystery of crohns and UC is no mystery at all Reply with quote

It ain't so mysterious and it ain't so esoteric.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0969276818/qid=1107359473/sr=2-3/ref=pd_ka_b_2_3/104-3247577-9552708

Breaking the Vicious Cycle: Intestinal Health Through Diet
by Elaine Gloria Gottschall


It's grains. Read the reviews on the webpage. Just follow the Specific
Carbohydrate Diet.

TC


Advocate147 wrote:
Quote:
Every now and then the subject of crohns comes up on the nutrition
newsgroup.
This is inform everyone that has or is in some way connected to
crohns.
Crohns is not the mysterious nor cause unknown illness as it is
touted to be.
It just has such a weird cause that makes it difficult or almost
impossible to
accept. Accept it or not, it is factual. Maybe not scientific as
it is
known, but factual nevertheless, as anyone with crohns or UC can
easily
determine by following the procedure that will unlock the mystery.
The website http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/gailfaq.htm is a
layman's
theory of the cause of crohns. Manmade illness, Continuing to
grow and
most people will either have it or know someone that does. Because
the cause
involves stimulants taken by one person and passed on to another by
mind/body
connection, literally in the form of crohns or UC. Anti-depressants
being the
most often cause along with all other stimulants, meds or
recreational drugs.
And adding to the complexity is the fact that the two or more persons
do not
need to be in one's presence for the person with crohns to be ill
with
symptoms.
Distance is no factor, only the mind connection is there causing the
damage.
Pediatric children suffer also, usually because their mother is on an
anti-depressant and ceasing the anti-depressant would bring the child
immediately back to normal.
The oddity of the cause keeps the cause a secret and easy or
difficult to
pursue/
It takes a little effort, but effort worthwhile.
Add to the drugs in the website others such as Xanax, Buspar,
Depakote,
Flexeril, natural herbs with natural stimulants, kava kava, st johns
wort, etc.
etc. etc. adding to the mixture of harmful meds causing crohns to a
vulnerable
person.
If one has unexplained symptoms such as vague or very pronounced
feelings or
unexplained symptoms, it is time to think of crohns and rule that
out.
Doctors do not know the cause, cannot always diagnose it, but
treatment by a
doctor is necessary when symptoms are present.
This is for everyone to take note of, as the symptoms are sometimes
thought to
be imaginary, but that is a very false perception.
Hope this helps.

Gail Michael
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