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Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics .....
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pmoran@bordernet.com.au
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

"Ilena Rose" <BIA@mundo.com> wrote in message
news:h5gib2dq1uku3etq93uftjamu17poaaf0k@4ax.com...
Quote:
Mark Probert claimed:

Even so, since I feel that autism is 99% genetic, there would be no issue
for me.

Mark, this quote quite touched me.

Let's say, in a peaceful moment, that you are absolutely correct ...

... autism is 99% genetic

Maybe that's true ...

Yet you seem to not understand that these genetics are what would
determine one's propensity and sensitivity to the mercury in
vaccinations.

It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury. My father
was ... he could break out and practically go into shock just being in
the same house with a broken thermometer ...

One time my dentist sent me home with a cute little rolly silver glop
of mercury ... probably 50 years ago ... and my father had a very
serious reation when the rest of the family did not. He didn't touch
it ... my siblings and I played with it. He walked into the house and
his eyes were swelling up in moments.

I hope you understand this ... I believe there is a subset of
children who will react very severely to mercury being shot inside
their young bodies ... I don't know what percentage and I doubt either
do you. But it exists.


There would have to be individual susceptibilities to the mercury in
vaccines, if that were the main cause of autism, since most children don't
become autistic despite the same mercury dosage. The susceptibility would
have to be specific to children, as nothing comparable has ever been
demonstrated in adults.

But this changes nothing. If autism rates stay the same or continue to
increase now that mercury has been removed from childhood vaccines, *as many
studies now show*, that disproves any important mercury/autism connection.
It means that if children are becoming autistic from vaccines (and that is
not yet established either) then it is not from the mercury.

Peter Moran

Quote:
Some day I believe that genetic testing will be available to determine
who can benefit from ... and who will have serious reactions to
various vaccinations.








Quote:

I believe the same for breast implants by the way ... that a subset of
women are genetically programmed in such a way to react very
negatively to foreign objects ... especially ones with platinum and
silica and other toxic ingredients. In both vaccinations and breast
implants, there are so many chemicals and substances that various
people, programmed by their genetics, will respond differently to
those substances.

Leroy Young, an aggressive Plastic Surgeon from Missouri did what I
consider one of the most important studies way back in 1995 ... I've
posted it below.

In these next 11 years enormous strides could have been made, yet I
have seen no follow up.

Instead, Young, unaffectionately known as Leroid Young, developed and
advertised and experimented with very dangerous soy filled implants
... a disaster beyond imagination.

I feel strongly that scientists (not Junk Scientists like Young who
apparently dropped the ball on this important research and now pushes
butt implants) need to look further into HLA genotypes as discussed
below.

Shabbot Shalom.

Ilena Rosenthal

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


DR53 may be a marker of women who are predisposed by their HLA
genotype to develop symptoms following exposure to silicone gel breast
implants.


Young VL ; Nemecek JR ; Schwartz BD ; Phelan DL ; Schorr MW ;


Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St.
Louis,


Mo, USA.


Plast Reconstr Surg Vol. 96 no. 7 pp. 1497-519;


discussion 1520


DATE: 1995 Dec


Abstract


Since the 1970s, anecdotal reports have described a relatively small
number of women who received silicone gel breast implants and later
developed either a recognized rheumatologic disease or unexplained
symptoms suggestive of an autoimmune disorder. The study reported here
examined whether there is any association between the symptoms seen in
implant patients and HLA molecules.


One-hundred and ninety-nine subjects were evaluated by HLA typing:
symptomatic patients with implants (group I, n = 77), asymptomatic
women with implants (group II, n = 37), healthy female volunteers
without implants (group III, n = 54), and fibromyalgia patients
without implants (group IV, n = 31).


A statistically significant 68 percent of group I were positive for
HLA-DR53, compared with 35 percent of group II and 52 percent of group
III.


The fibromyalgia patients were strikingly similar to group I women in
terms of HLA-DR molecules, with 65 percent of group IV being positive
for DR53.


Group I also had a statistically significant increased frequency of
HLA-DQ2.


Asymptomatic women with implants (group II) had an increased frequency
of DR1 and DQ1.


In addition, 42 percent of symptomatic patients with implants formed
autoantibodies to their own B cells; of these, 81 percent were
DR53-positive. Although frequencies of capsular contracture and
implant rupture were not significantly different in the two groups
with implants, there were statistically significant associations in
group I between contractures and ruptures and the presence
of DR53 and B-cell autoantibodies. These data suggest that symptomatic
patients with implants share important genetic characteristics
(primarily HLA- DR53 positivity) that differentiate them from their
asymptomatic counterparts.


DR53 may be a marker of women who are predisposed by their HLA
genotype to develop symptoms following exposure to silicone gel breast
implants.


Young VL ; Nemecek JR ; Schwartz BD ; Phelan DL ; Schorr MW ;


Department of Medicine, Washington University School of Medicine, St.
Louis,


Mo, USA.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Some Women With Breast Implants May Be Genetically
Predisposed to Illness


by Caroline Decker


Contact:
Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis
Caroline Decker
314-286-0109


Anecdotal reports of illness by some women with silicone gel breast
implants eventually led the federal Food and Drug
Administration in 1992 to ban their use pending a safety review.
However, researchers still do not know why some women with
implants, and not others, develop symptoms suggestive of an illness.
Now, a study by researchers at Washington University
School of Medicine in St. Louis concludes that genetic factors may
play
a role.


The study found that women with breast implants who had debilitating
symptoms such as chronic fatigue, burning breast pain,
muscle or joint pain were more likely to share genetic characteristics
that differentiate them from women with breast implants
who have no symptoms.


"To our surprise, we found that some women with implants may be
genetically predisposed to develop symptoms," said lead
researcher Leroy Young, M.D., a plastic and reconstructive surgeon at
Washington University School of Medicine.


Moreover, the researchers found that women with breast implants and
symptoms also were more likely than others in the study
to produce autoantibodies against their B cells. B cells are a key
component of the immune system, and high frequencies of such
autoantibodies are clearly abnormal, Young said.


"Autoantibodies to B cells may hold clues that will help explain why
some women with breast implants develop symptoms," he
said. The team reported its findings in the journal of Plastic and
Reconstructive Surgery in December 1995.


Since the FDA ban, researchers have tried to explain the origin of
symptoms reported by some women with breast implants.
The lack of a recognized disease in these patients and the failure to
find a cause for their symptoms prompted Washington
University researchers to conduct the study.


The researchers studied the genetic characteristics of 199 women -- 77
with breast implants and symptoms, 37 with implants
and no symptoms, 54 healthy women without implants and 31 women
diagnosed with fibromyalgia, a disease defined by pain in
connective tissues such as muscles, tendons and ligaments.
Fibromyalgia
is not known to be immune-mediated and has no
known cause.


Women with fibromyalgia were included in the study to determine
whether women with breast implants are prone to develop
the rheumatological disorder. Symptoms of fibromyalgia are similar to
those experienced by women with breast implants who
develop symptoms. "At first, we thought implants might trigger
fibromyalgia," Young said.


To be considered symptomatic, women with breast implants had to have
one or more of the following: burning breast pain,
chronic fatigue, vague upper body pain, muscle or joint pain. Their
symptoms must have persisted for at least four months and
have interfered with daily activities, particularly with the ability
to maintain a job.


Women with breast implants and those with fibromyalgia averaged 46
years of age; those in the healthy comparison group were
slightly younger, averaging 37 years of age. Virtually all women in
the study were white. Genetic characteristics were determined
by analyzing blood samples. The researchers zeroed in on a group of
proteins encoded by a collection of genes called the major
histocompatibility complex (MHC), which is known to play an important
role in immune response. They wanted to find out
whether the MHC molecules of symptomatic women with breast implants
differed from those of women with breast implants
who did not have symptoms.


The investigators used HLA (human leukocyte antigen) typing to analyze
blood samples; organ transplant teams use the same
procedure to assess genetic similarities between organ donors and
recipients.


Molecule Could Be a Marker


They found that both women with implants and symptoms and women with
fibromyalgia were significantly more likely to have
an HLA molecule called DR-53. The molecule was present in 68 percent
of symptomatic breast implant patients and 65 percent of fibromyalgia
patients, compared with 35 percent of the
asymptomatic implant patients. Fifty-two percent of the
healthy women also had the DR-53 molecule, which is similar to its
natural frequency among white women. DR molecules play
a critical immunoregulatory role because they control the interactions
among the immune system's T cells, B cells and antigen-presenting
cells.


Young and his colleagues initially suspected that women with breast
implants and symptoms actually had fibromyalgia. But when
they looked closer, they found that 42 percent of symptomatic women
with breast implants formed antibodies against their own
B cells. Only 2 percent of healthy women formed autoantibodies,
compared with 14 percent of asymptomatic women with
breast implants and 19 percent of fibromyalgia patients.


More striking, however, was the observation that 81 percent of the
patients with implants who produced autoantibodies were
DR-53 positive. This compares with 33 percent of fibromyalgia patients
who were positive for both autoantibodies and DR-53.


"There's clearly a link between DR-53 and autoantibodies," Young said.
"But we won't know what it means until we find out
why these women are forming autoantibodies at such a high rate."


Women with symptoms had had their breast implants for an average of 12
years, compared with asymptomatic women who
had had their implants for an average of 10 years. So it's possible
that the latter group may develop symptoms over time. "This
may be especially true for those asymptomatic women who are DR-53
positive or who have produced autoantibodies to their
own B cells," Young said.


Young and his co-workers are now trying to find out what is triggering
the production of autoantibodies. If they are formed in
response to silicone gel or one of its components, then the
asymptomatic implant group also might be expected to have high
frequencies. On the other hand, if the autoantibodies are somehow
related to the presence of DR-53, the fibromyalgia patients
might be expected to have higher frequencies of B cell autoantibodies.
"We can't fully explain the highly statistically significant formation
of autoantibodies to B cells, but their presence suggests the
activation of an immune-mediated process that is related to DR-53 and
breast implant exposure," Young said.


If the study's results are confirmed, DR-53 could be viewed as a
marker for individuals who may be predisposed to develop an
immune-mediated response or hypersensitivity reaction following
silicone breast implants. But Young cautioned that it is too
early for the information to be used clinically and that women with
implants should not rush to their doctors and request HLA
tissue typing, a test that costs about $1,300. "The test is useful as
a research tool but would not be helpful in making clinical
decisions," Young explained. "However, women with breast implants need
regular follow-ups with their physicians."






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Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

In article <44b96844$0$22362$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Moran"
<pmoranATbodernet.com.au> wrote:

"Ilena Rose" <BIA@mundo.com> wrote in message
news:h5gib2dq1uku3etq93uftjamu17poaaf0k@4ax.com...
Quote:
Mark Probert claimed:

Even so, since I feel that autism is 99% genetic, there would be no issue
for me.

Mark, this quote quite touched me.

Let's say, in a peaceful moment, that you are absolutely correct ...

... autism is 99% genetic

Maybe that's true ...

Yet you seem to not understand that these genetics are what would
determine one's propensity and sensitivity to the mercury in
vaccinations.

It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury. My father
was ... he could break out and practically go into shock just being in
the same house with a broken thermometer ...

One time my dentist sent me home with a cute little rolly silver glop
of mercury ... probably 50 years ago ... and my father had a very
serious reation when the rest of the family did not. He didn't touch
it ... my siblings and I played with it. He walked into the house and
his eyes were swelling up in moments.

I hope you understand this ... I believe there is a subset of
children who will react very severely to mercury being shot inside
their young bodies ... I don't know what percentage and I doubt either
do you. But it exists.


There would have to be individual susceptibilities to the mercury in
vaccines, if that were the main cause of autism, since most children don't
become autistic despite the same mercury dosage. The susceptibility would
have to be specific to children, as nothing comparable has ever been
demonstrated in adults.

But this changes nothing. If autism rates stay the same or continue to
increase now that mercury has been removed from childhood vaccines, *as many
studies now show*, that disproves any important mercury/autism connection.
It means that if children are becoming autistic from vaccines (and that is
not yet established either) then it is not from the mercury.

Peter Moran

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
Let's assume this statement is true:

Quote:
It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury.

This could explain why only a small number of children develop autism as a
result of taking a vaccine containing mercury. Some children (as a result
of genetics) may be even more sensitive to mercury than other children. It
may take only one vaccine containing mercury to cause him to develop
autism. It may take several vaccines containing mercury and several dental
fillings containing mercury to cause another child to develop mercury. On
the other hand, most children would not develop autism even if they ate
methylmercury-contaminated fish once a week for a year. Since mercury is
in our environment (eg fish), children would still develop autism even if
they NEVER took a vaccine containing mercury. Vaccines (that do not
contain mercury) do NOT cause autism. That is a theory that the
anti-vaccine nuts believe but that does not mean that it is true.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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BreastImplantAwareness.or
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

Jason wrote:

Quote:
Vaccines (that do not contain mercury) do NOT cause autism. That is a theory that the anti-vaccine nuts believe but that does not mean that it is true.
Jason

Thanks for your comments.

I'm curious ... do you believe that mercury is the only cause of
autism, or like me, believe it can be triggered by multiple and as
yet, unknown pathogens and chemicals etc. in various combinations and
permutations?

Ilena Rosenthal
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

In article <ppvib21o8cma1pfrqqf3j05be9ek4rjvh0@4ax.com>, Ilena Rose
<BIA@mundo.com> wrote:

Jason wrote:

Quote:
Vaccines (that do not contain mercury) do NOT cause autism. That is a
theory that the anti-vaccine nuts believe but that does not mean that it

is true.
Quote:
Jason

Thanks for your comments.

I'm curious ... do you believe that mercury is the only cause of
autism, or like me, believe it can be triggered by multiple and as
yet, unknown pathogens and chemicals etc. in various combinations and
permutations?

Ilena Rosenthal
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Illena,
Great question. I suspect that mercury is one of the causes of autism and
there may be other causes such as the ones that you mentioned in your
post. Heavy metals and dangerous chemicals would be at the top of the
list. I hope that before the end of next year that mercury is not used in
any vaccines or dental fillings. My concern is for the children.
Did you make this statement? (note: I agree with the statement.)

Quote:
It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury.

jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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BreastImplantAwareness.or
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

Jason asked:

Quote:
Did you make this statement? (note: I agree with the statement.)


Quote:
It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins >>and poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury.


Yes I did.I know it gets confusing sometimes!

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

In article <6m6jb2pan94769jmm9isb8ihatvski6ilr@4ax.com>, Ilena Rose
<BIA@mundo.com> wrote:

Jason asked:

Quote:
Did you make this statement? (note: I agree with the statement.)


Quote:
It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins
and poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury.


Yes I did.I know it gets confusing sometimes!

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Illena,
Not to me. It explains the reason why just some children develop autism.
When I was a child, I had double doses of all of the required vaccinations
and I did not develop autism. I changed schools and my vaccine records
were lost so the principal of the new school would not allow me to attend
until I had (for the second time) all of the required vaccinations. I was
an adult before I learned about the dangers of mercury. When I was child,
my brother and myself played with mercury by placing it on coins. Your
theory related to genetics explains why I did not develop autism. I must
not be sentitive to it like those children that develop autism.
Thanks for your work related to breast cancer awareness. My niece had
breast cancer and still worries about it since she found out that women
that have had breast cancer once before are more likely to get it once
again than women that never have had breast cancer. Is that true?
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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BreastImplantAwareness.or
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

Hi again Jason,

My main work has been with women harmed by breast implants, and yes
indeed, many of them have had breast cancer and then implants.


http://humanticsfoundation.com/breastcancer.html

I don't know the answer to your specific question on recurrence ...

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Back to top
pmoran@bordernet.com.au
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

"Jason Johnson" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1507061633510001@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...
Quote:
In article <44b96844$0$22362$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Peter Moran"
pmoranATbodernet.com.au> wrote:

"Ilena Rose" <BIA@mundo.com> wrote in message
news:h5gib2dq1uku3etq93uftjamu17poaaf0k@4ax.com...
Mark Probert claimed:

Even so, since I feel that autism is 99% genetic, there would be no
issue
for me.

Mark, this quote quite touched me.

Let's say, in a peaceful moment, that you are absolutely correct ...

... autism is 99% genetic

Maybe that's true ...

Yet you seem to not understand that these genetics are what would
determine one's propensity and sensitivity to the mercury in
vaccinations.

It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury. My father
was ... he could break out and practically go into shock just being in
the same house with a broken thermometer ...

One time my dentist sent me home with a cute little rolly silver glop
of mercury ... probably 50 years ago ... and my father had a very
serious reation when the rest of the family did not. He didn't touch
it ... my siblings and I played with it. He walked into the house and
his eyes were swelling up in moments.

I hope you understand this ... I believe there is a subset of
children who will react very severely to mercury being shot inside
their young bodies ... I don't know what percentage and I doubt either
do you. But it exists.


There would have to be individual susceptibilities to the mercury in
vaccines, if that were the main cause of autism, since most children
don't
become autistic despite the same mercury dosage. The susceptibility
would
have to be specific to children, as nothing comparable has ever been
demonstrated in adults.

But this changes nothing. If autism rates stay the same or continue to
increase now that mercury has been removed from childhood vaccines, *as
many
studies now show*, that disproves any important mercury/autism
connection.
It means that if children are becoming autistic from vaccines (and that is
not yet established either) then it is not from the mercury.

Peter Moran

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
Let's assume this statement is true:

It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury.

This could explain why only a small number of children develop autism as a
result of taking a vaccine containing mercury. Some children (as a result
of genetics) may be even more sensitive to mercury than other children. It
may take only one vaccine containing mercury to cause him to develop
autism. It may take several vaccines containing mercury and several dental
fillings containing mercury to cause another child to develop mercury. On
the other hand, most children would not develop autism even if they ate
methylmercury-contaminated fish once a week for a year. Since mercury is
in our environment (eg fish), children would still develop autism even if
they NEVER took a vaccine containing mercury. Vaccines (that do not
contain mercury) do NOT cause autism. That is a theory that the
anti-vaccine nuts believe but that does not mean that it is true.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't wholly agree with this. There is a correlation between number of
immunisations and autism incidence in developed countries. That does not
prove autism is due to vaccines but it begs the question as to how you can
be so sure that "Vaccines (that do not contain mercury) do NOT cause
autism". We cannot know that, (or at least, I personally don't know off
hand of any large body of evidence against it). We could still be quite
sure that overall the benefits of vaccination outweigh any disadvantages.
There would a lot more deaths and probably just as many brain-damaged
children from epidemic illnesses, even if vaccination were ceased entirely.

Also, if the incidence of autism continues unabated when mercury is removed
from vaccines, as appears to be the case, what are your grounds for
hypothesising ANY important connection of mercury and autism? I don't
think the fish-eating habits of babies has changed much in my country over
the last fifty years and it seems to me to be idle speculation to be still
proposing rare but powerful genetic predispositions. Again, we can't rule
that out completely, but there must be far more important causes..

Peter Moran
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

In article <pubjb2pbhomvfjkbqf8l29jkhab8i28162@4ax.com>, Ilena Rose
<BIA@mundo.com> wrote:

Hi again Jason,

My main work has been with women harmed by breast implants, and yes
indeed, many of them have had breast cancer and then implants.


http://humanticsfoundation.com/breastcancer.html

I don't know the answer to your specific question on recurrence ...

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Illena,
Thanks for your post. My niece is doing very well. She gets breast cancer
screening twice as often than other women her same age so there must be
more a risk for recurrence. Keep up the great work. Have a great week.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

Quote:
Hello,
Let's assume this statement is true:

It is our genetics that determine how we respond to various toxins and
poisons ... some people are extremely sensitive to mercury.

This could explain why only a small number of children develop autism as a
result of taking a vaccine containing mercury. Some children (as a result
of genetics) may be even more sensitive to mercury than other children. It
may take only one vaccine containing mercury to cause him to develop
autism. It may take several vaccines containing mercury and several dental
fillings containing mercury to cause another child to develop mercury. On
the other hand, most children would not develop autism even if they ate
methylmercury-contaminated fish once a week for a year. Since mercury is
in our environment (eg fish), children would still develop autism even if
they NEVER took a vaccine containing mercury. Vaccines (that do not
contain mercury) do NOT cause autism. That is a theory that the
anti-vaccine nuts believe but that does not mean that it is true.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can't wholly agree with this. There is a correlation between number of
immunisations and autism incidence in developed countries. That does not
prove autism is due to vaccines but it begs the question as to how you can
be so sure that "Vaccines (that do not contain mercury) do NOT cause
autism". We cannot know that, (or at least, I personally don't know off
hand of any large body of evidence against it). We could still be quite
sure that overall the benefits of vaccination outweigh any disadvantages.
There would a lot more deaths and probably just as many brain-damaged
children from epidemic illnesses, even if vaccination were ceased entirely.

Also, if the incidence of autism continues unabated when mercury is removed
from vaccines, as appears to be the case, what are your grounds for
hypothesising ANY important connection of mercury and autism? I don't
think the fish-eating habits of babies has changed much in my country over
the last fifty years and it seems to me to be idle speculation to be still
proposing rare but powerful genetic predispositions. Again, we can't rule
that out completely, but there must be far more important causes..

Peter Moran

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter,
Let's assume that one or more of the required vaccines that do NOT contain
mercury cause autism. Scientists should easily be able to test each of the
required vaccines on animals (eg lab rats). They could easily determine if
any of those vaccines caused any of the rats to develop brain problems or
"autism like" symptoms. It's my guess that those sorts of studies have
already been done related to various vaccines. I agree that we should
continue to vaccinate children even if it possible that one or more of the
vaccines cause autism.
More lives would be saved.

The fish eating habits of pregnant mothers are also an issue. I recently
read an article that indicated that doctors now tell pregnant mothers that
they should NOT eat fish while they are pregnant. How many pregnant
mothers are NOT told that information or ignore the doctors advice? After
thimerosal is removed from all vaccines, the rates of autism will probably
start trending in a downward direction. However, children will continue to
develop autism mainly as a result of eating fish that have high levels of
mercury. The type of mercury in fish is even more dangerous than the type
of mercury in vaccines. In addition, children will be exposed to mercury
when they receive dental fillings. The rates of autism would only trend
down to zero if ALL mercury and other heavy metals was removed from our
environment. Do you agree or disagree with me? I should note that
dangerous chemicals may also cause autism. I would appreciate your
comments about this report. Jason

I typed "causes of autism" into the google search engine and could not find
any medical research reports related to the cause of autism. I found the
following
information at the EIR (Environmental Illness Resources) website. I deleted the
portions of the article related to causes other than heavy metals such as
chemical exposure.

Source: EIR website

Heavy Metal Toxicity
Another finding in autistic children is a higher level of heavy metals
than normal. One source of mercury exposure in early life is through
vaccinations. Thimerosal is a preservative used in many vaccinations to
prevent contamination. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight. Shockingly
in 1999 the American Food and Drug Administration released a report
stating that children who received thimerosal containing vaccinations at
multiple visits may be exposed to more mercury than is recommended by
federal guidelines. In fact, children may have been receiving 100 times
the 0.1 micrograms per kilogram of daily exposure considered safe by most
authorities worldwide. This report has, however, resulted in positive
action being taken. Following the publication of the report, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) recommended that thimerosal be removed from all vaccines given to
children. A study of 2 US government databases in March 2006 shows that in
the 4 years following the recommended removal of thimerosal from childrens
vaccines, exposure of children to this toxin was reduced to almost zero,
and most importantly, new cases of autism actually began to decrease.

Mercury is a known neurotoxin and could be especially harmful to the
developing brains of young children. Mercury also disrupts biochemistry
and can result in dysfunction of multiple enzyme systems and damage to
cell membranes and many proteins involved in all bodily functions. As can
be said for the MMR vaccine, increases in vaccinations correlate well with
increases in incidence of ASD's.

In a paper published in the journal Neurotoxicology by The Coalition for
Safe Minds in 2001, the authors seek to determine the levels of mercury
that could be expected upon hair analysis, based upon the amounts of
mercury in vaccines routinely given to infants and children.(12). The
paper predicts, based upon a proven model, that giving children all the
usual vaccinations, using thimerosal containing vaccines would result in a
hair concentration of greater than 1ppm (parts per million) of mercury for
up to 365 days with various peaks during that period. 1ppm is the safe
limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Research at the
UCLA Medical Center in California has also shown that Thimerosal (when
bound to human albumin protein) triggers an immune system reaction in
autistic children, resulting in the production of antibodies (17). This
indicates a possible autoimmune reaction as the immune system could react
against any of the child's own tissues that happen to have Thimerosal
bound to them.

Obviously children are exposed to mercury from other sources as well so
their actual mercury levels could be expected to be even higher than this.
The paper notes that:

"exposure to low levels of mercury during critical stages of development
has been associated with neurological disorders in children, including
ADD, learning difficulties, and speech delays, the predicted hair Hg
(mercury) concentration resulting from childhood immunizations is cause
for concern."

A paper published in March 2006 in Environmental Health Perspectives would
seem to shed more light on the mechanisms by which thimerosal can damage a
childs health. Researchers at University of California, Davis, have found
that in mice at least, thimerosal can disrupt the immune system. This
large, well funded study for the university's MIND Institute and the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences is sure to be an
important indicator of where future research should be focused. The
researchers in this study looked at dendritic cells which can be described
as messengers within the immune system. These cells take up invaders such
as bacteria, viruses and other antigens such as vaccine ingredients and
process them. They then migrate to the lymph nodes to present their
information to other immune cells, which can activate a systemic immune
response. The research shows that these dendritic cells, especially the
normal biochemical signals they process, are highly sensitive to
thimerosal. With low concentrations of thimerosal, an inflammatory
response occurs and with higher concentrations the cell is actually
killed. These reactions could lead to any number of unwanted, and
uncontrolled, effects within the immune system.

Autistic children often show signs of immunological dysfunction with
allergies, gut disorders and frequent infections being common. The effects
of thimerosal on the immune system, that this study demonstrates, provides
one possible explanation of why this is the case.

Of course, mercury is not the only heavy metal that can cause health
problems and vaccinations are not the only source of exposure to mercury.
Other possible sources of heavy metal exposure are contaminated food and
water supplies. Fish is particularly associated with contamination as
oceanic pollution becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain
to predatory fish..



Chemical Exposure
A number of researchers and institutions are now studying the possible
role of exposure to chemicals in ASD's. A major study is underway at The
UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, Schools of Medicine and Veterinary Medicine,
and the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences funded by the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. Professor Isaac
Pessah who is involved with this study states:

" Environmental exp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
BreastImplantAwareness.or
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

Jason, I wish your sister all the health and healing possible.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

In article <k99lb2lmdilnjnelmovnhtljsevnl3gnlm@4ax.com>, Ilena Rose
<BIA@mundo.com> wrote:

Jason, I wish your sister all the health and healing possible.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Thanks Illena. I pray for her on a regular basis.
You are a kind and wonderful person.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
BreastImplantAwareness.or
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

LOL ..

Thanks Jason ... be careful tho ... expressing sentiments such as you
did around these parts (ruled by the Rag-tag Posse) will get you
tarr'd & feather'd at best!

Going to go eat birthday cake & ice cream with friends ... have a
lovely evening.


Ilena wrote:
Jason, I wish your sister all the health and healing possible.

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/blog.htm


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Thanks Illena. I pray for her on a regular basis.
You are a kind and wonderful person.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Jeff
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1313

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

"Jason Johnson" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-1607061051560001@66-52-22-79.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net...

(...)

Quote:
I can't wholly agree with this. There is a correlation between number of
immunisations and autism incidence in developed countries. That does not
prove autism is due to vaccines but it begs the question as to how you can
be so sure that "Vaccines (that do not contain mercury) do NOT cause
autism".

One thing is that in countries where kids go to see doctors a lot, they are
also more likely to be diagnosed with autism, because they won't be
diagnosed if they don't see doctors. This is particularly true for kids who
have milder symptoms. And kids who go to see doctors a lot are also more
likely to be up-to-date on their vaccinations. This is one possible reason
why kids who have autism are more likely to be up-to-date on their vaccines.

Jeff

Quote:
We cannot know that, (or at least, I personally don't know off
hand of any large body of evidence against it). We could still be quite
sure that overall the benefits of vaccination outweigh any disadvantages.
There would a lot more deaths and probably just as many brain-damaged
children from epidemic illnesses, even if vaccination were ceased
entirely.

Also, if the incidence of autism continues unabated when mercury is
removed
from vaccines, as appears to be the case, what are your grounds for
hypothesising ANY important connection of mercury and autism? I don't
think the fish-eating habits of babies has changed much in my country over
the last fifty years and it seems to me to be idle speculation to be still
proposing rare but powerful genetic predispositions. Again, we can't rule
that out completely, but there must be far more important causes..

This is actually a complicated issue. One reason why the rates of autism
diagnosis is higher is that doctors are better at spotting the condition. In
addition, there may be more mercury contamination of the environment now,
than before, leading babies who have the exact same fish-eating habits as
the previous generation might be exposed to more mercury. And, I don't agree
that the fish-eating habits of little kids aren't the same as before. Today,
people get food from farther away than ever before. It used to be that when
I was a kid, most of the food was grown within about 100 km of where you
lived. Now, we get get a much greater variety of food from far away. This
inclused fish from places we didn't get it when I was a kid.

However, one thing that has changed over the last several years is our
understanding of autism. There is nothing about what is known about the
pathology of organomercury compounds or autism (like thimerasol) that
suggests that thimerasol is the cause of autism. And there is a lot known
about autism that suggests that mercury is not a cause of autism, like the
epidemiology of autism as well the pathology of autism and the timing of the
illness.

Jeff

Quote:
Peter Moran

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter,
Let's assume that one or more of the required vaccines that do NOT contain
mercury cause autism. Scientists should easily be able to test each of the
required vaccines on animals (eg lab rats). They could easily determine if
any of those vaccines caused any of the rats to develop brain problems or
"autism like" symptoms. It's my guess that those sorts of studies have
already been done related to various vaccines. I agree that we should
continue to vaccinate children even if it possible that one or more of the
vaccines cause autism.
More lives would be saved.

The fish eating habits of pregnant mothers are also an issue. I recently
read an article that indicated that doctors now tell pregnant mothers that
they should NOT eat fish while they are pregnant. How many pregnant
mothers are NOT told that information or ignore the doctors advice? After
thimerosal is removed from all vaccines, the rates of autism will probably
start trending in a downward direction. However, children will continue to
develop autism mainly as a result of eating fish that have high levels of
mercury. The type of mercury in fish is even more dangerous than the type
of mercury in vaccines. In addition, children will be exposed to mercury
when they receive dental fillings. The rates of autism would only trend
down to zero if ALL mercury and other heavy metals was removed from our
environment. Do you agree or disagree with me? I should note that
dangerous chemicals may also cause autism. I would appreciate your
comments about this report. Jason

I typed "causes of autism" into the google search engine and could not
find
any medical research reports related to the cause of autism. I found the
following
information at the EIR (Environmental Illness Resources) website. I
deleted the
portions of the article related to causes other than heavy metals such as
chemical exposure.

Source: EIR website

Heavy Metal Toxicity
Another finding in autistic children is a higher level of heavy metals
than normal. One source of mercury exposure in early life is through
vaccinations. Thimerosal is a preservative used in many vaccinations to
prevent contamination. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight. Shockingly
in 1999 the American Food and Drug Administration released a report
stating that children who received thimerosal containing vaccinations at
multiple visits may be exposed to more mercury than is recommended by
federal guidelines. In fact, children may have been receiving 100 times
the 0.1 micrograms per kilogram of daily exposure considered safe by most
authorities worldwide. This report has, however, resulted in positive
action being taken. Following the publication of the report, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) recommended that thimerosal be removed from all vaccines given to
children. A study of 2 US government databases in March 2006 shows that in
the 4 years following the recommended removal of thimerosal from childrens
vaccines, exposure of children to this toxin was reduced to almost zero,
and most importantly, new cases of autism actually began to decrease.

Mercury is a known neurotoxin and could be especially harmful to the
developing brains of young children. Mercury also disrupts biochemistry
and can result in dysfunction of multiple enzyme systems and damage to
cell membranes and many proteins involved in all bodily functions. As can
be said for the MMR vaccine, increases in vaccinations correlate well with
increases in incidence of ASD's.

In a paper published in the journal Neurotoxicology by The Coalition for
Safe Minds in 2001, the authors seek to determine the levels of mercury
that could be expected upon hair analysis, based upon the amounts of
mercury in vaccines routinely given to infants and children.(12). The
paper predicts, based upon a proven model, that giving children all the
usual vaccinations, using thimerosal containing vaccines would result in a
hair concentration of greater than 1ppm (parts per million) of mercury for
up to 365 days with various peaks during that period. 1ppm is the safe
limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Research at the
UCLA Medical Center in California has also shown that Thimerosal (when
bound to human albumin protein) triggers an immune system reaction in
autistic children, resulting in the production of antibodies (17). This
indicates a possible autoimmune reaction as the immune system could react
against any of the child's own tissues that happen to have Thimerosal
bound to them.

Obviously children are exposed to mercury from other sources as well so
their actual mercury levels could be expected to be even higher than this.
The paper notes that:

"exposure to low levels of mercury during critical stages of development
has been associated with neurological disorders in children, including
ADD, learning difficulties, and speech delays, the predicted hair Hg
(mercury) concentration resulting from childhood immunizations is cause
for concern."

A paper published in March 2006 in Environmental Health Perspectives would
seem to shed more light on the mechanisms by which thimerosal can damage a
childs health. Researchers at University of California, Davis, have found
that in mice at least, thimerosal can disrupt the immune system. This
large, well funded study for the university's MIND Institute and the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences is sure to be an
important indicator of where future research should be focused. The
researchers in this study looked at dendritic cells which can be described
as messengers within the immune system. These cells take up invaders such
as bacteria, viruses and other antigens such as vaccine ingredients and
process them. They then migrate to the lymph nodes to present their
information to other immune cells, which can activate a systemic immune
response. The research shows that these dendritic cells, especially the
normal biochemical signals they process, are highly sensitive to
thimerosal. With low concentrations of thimerosal, an inflammatory
response occurs and with higher concentrations the cell is actually
killed. These reactions could lead to any number of unwanted, and
uncontrolled, effects within the immune system.

Autistic children often show signs of immunological dysfunction with
allergies, gut disorders and frequent infections being common. The effects
of thimerosal on the immune system, that this study demonstrates, provides
one possible explanation of why this is the case.

Of course, mercury is not the only heavy metal that can cause health
problems and vaccinations are not the only source of exposure to mercury.
Other possible sources of heavy metal exposure are contaminated food and
water supplies. Fish is particularly associated with contamination as
oceanic pollution becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain
to predatory fish..



Chemical Exposure
A number of researchers and institutions are now studying the possible
role of exposure to chemicals in ASD's. A major study is underway at The
UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, Schools of Medicine and Veterinary Medicine,
and the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences funded by the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. Professor Isaac
Pessah who is involved with this study states:

" Environmental exp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
vernon
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Vaccinations & Autism & Breast Implants & Genetics ..... Reply with quote

"Peter Moran" <pmoran@bordernet.com.au> wrote in message
news:44b9f0d9$0$25284$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Quote:


I can't wholly agree with this. There is a correlation between number of
immunisations and autism incidence in developed countries. That does not
prove autism is due to vaccines but it begs the question as to how you can
be so sure that "Vaccines (that do not contain mercury) do NOT cause
autism". We cannot know that, (or at least, I personally don't know
off hand of any large body of evidence against it).

(Tongue in cheek), there is as much "correlation" between the advance of
television and autism. For a while there was this massive hype that t.v.
tube raditation was causing it and pregnent mothers were told to stay at
least 15 feet away from the T.V. under all circumstances.


Quote:
We could still be quite sure that overall the benefits of vaccination
outweigh any disadvantages. There would a lot more deaths and probably just
as many brain-damaged children from epidemic illnesses, even if vaccination
were ceased entirely.

Also, if the incidence of autism continues unabated when mercury is
removed from vaccines, as appears to be the case, what are your grounds
for hypothesising ANY important connection of mercury and autism? I
don't think the fish-eating habits of babies has changed much in my
country over the last fifty years and it seems to me to be idle
speculation to be still proposing rare but powerful genetic
predispositions. Again, we can't rule that out completely, but there must
be far more important causes..

Peter Moran
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