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can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme?
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

john wrote:

Quote:
I was wondering.. Since Spinal Taps can test for several different things
that blood tests cannot.

Possibly. A spinal tap may be ordered if there are symptoms consistent
with neurological impairment, as I understand it.

But...if the tests (antibody, PCR) are "negative"...this does not "rule
out" the disease, if I am not mistaken.

So, yes, the spinal tap MIGHT be useful in a patient with central
nervous system involvement...IF it is positive.

Quote:

Also, I read a few years ago from some medical literature that it may be
possible that lyme can spread through the air...and this is how other close
family members get it aswell... any truth behind this?

No.
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eugeneshapiroisapig
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2108

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

in a sense, late lyme disease is a genetic condition. therefore, the
presence of the disease in multiple family members may be expected in
hyperendemic regions. of course, this does not explain the presence of
disease in a spouse.

keep in mind two things: {1} the nymphal stage of the ixodes tick is
tiny, the size of this dot: {.}. also, the ability of certain insects
notably culex mosquitoes to transmit mechanically or otherwise has not
been reported in north america. it's important because the lyme we see
in north america is likely descended from crudely engineered strains
manufactured in the 50s and 60s which utilized genetic material from
certain old world relapsing fever spirochetes. why would they do this,
well it's because they knew from the 40's that certain RF borrelia in
addition to being capable of tick transmission were also able to
reproduce and establish in certain insects. mosquitoes make very good
bioweapons delivery systems. especially agressive hybrid mosquitoes.
finally, OW relapsing fever spirochetes were known to activate latent
viral infections in humans. and were also known to establish residual
brain infections and were highly neurotropic. all of these qualities
lead to the use of their genetic material in producing manufactured
strains tested on the US population. in any event, it's possible that
your family is being infected not by ticks, but by flying insects.

Andrew spielman is a gigantic liar.


the 3rd Man wrote:
Quote:
john wrote:

I was wondering.. Since Spinal Taps can test for several different things
that blood tests cannot.

Possibly. A spinal tap may be ordered if there are symptoms consistent
with neurological impairment, as I understand it.

But...if the tests (antibody, PCR) are "negative"...this does not "rule
out" the disease, if I am not mistaken.

So, yes, the spinal tap MIGHT be useful in a patient with central
nervous system involvement...IF it is positive.


Also, I read a few years ago from some medical literature that it may be
possible that lyme can spread through the air...and this is how other close
family members get it aswell... any truth behind this?

No.
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

trong wrote:

Quote:
in a sense, late lyme disease is a genetic condition. therefore, the
presence of the disease in multiple family members may be expected in
hyperendemic regions. of course, this does not explain the presence of
disease in a spouse.

WHAT?

Who says?

News to me.

There's no PROOF of that. Keep your damn theories to yourself and try
to deal with FACTS.

Stating theories as if they are proven FACT makes you just as bad as
the "Steere" Camp.
Quote:

keep in mind two things: {1} the nymphal stage of the ixodes tick is
tiny, the size of this dot: {.}. also, the ability of certain insects
notably culex mosquitoes to transmit mechanically or otherwise has not
been reported in north america. it's important because the lyme we see
in north america is likely descended from crudely engineered strains
manufactured in the 50s and 60s which utilized genetic material from
certain old world relapsing fever spirochetes.

You're insane.

why would they do this,
Quote:
well it's because they knew from the 40's that certain RF borrelia in
addition to being capable of tick transmission were also able to
reproduce and establish in certain insects. mosquitoes make very good
bioweapons delivery systems. especially agressive hybrid mosquitoes.
finally, OW relapsing fever spirochetes were known to activate latent
viral infections in humans. and were also known to establish residual
brain infections and were highly neurotropic. all of these qualities
lead to the use of their genetic material in producing manufactured
strains tested on the US population. in any event, it's possible that
your family is being infected not by ticks, but by flying insects.

Read any good comic books lately? Fucking goof.
Quote:

Andrew spielman is a gigantic liar.

And you're a psychotic lunatic.
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

trong wrote:
Quote:
in a sense, late lyme disease is a genetic condition. therefore, the..."


Quote:
(SNIP) raving insanity...

WHAT in the HELL is WRONG with you?

WHY do you have to interject a bunch of assinine stupid conspiracy s**t
into a reply to a fairly straightforward question, seeking a fairly
simple straightforward answer?

Do you give a DAMN about helping anyone? Or...are you just interested
in finding an opportunity to shoot your pathetic FOOL mouth off?

WHY disrupt a simple request for information with obnoxious STUPID
raving nonsense like this?
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eugeneshapiroisapig
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2108

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

wow, I thought you were ignoring me. do you feel threatened by what I
wrote? the hybridization studies have been completed and are going to
be published soon, moron.
the 3rd Man wrote:
Quote:
trong wrote:
in a sense, late lyme disease is a genetic condition. therefore, the..."


(SNIP) raving insanity...

WHAT in the HELL is WRONG with you?

WHY do you have to interject a bunch of assinine stupid conspiracy s**t
into a reply to a fairly straightforward question, seeking a fairly
simple straightforward answer?

Do you give a DAMN about helping anyone? Or...are you just interested
in finding an opportunity to shoot your pathetic FOOL mouth off?

WHY disrupt a simple request for information with obnoxious STUPID
raving nonsense like this?
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

trong wrote:

Quote:
wow, I thought you were ignoring me.

I was trying to. That seems to be the sane thing to do.

do you feel threatened by what I
Quote:
wrote?

Good God.

No.

But I think it is beyond comprehension that you would write this
MORONIC comicbook conspiracy CRAP into a simple request for information
from a "newbie".

Someone has to straighten out all the NONSENSE you and KathLOON spew
all over the internet.

You BOTH need to stop viewing this board and others here as some sort
of personal electronic psychiatrist's couch.

We're not some form of twisted, perverted entertainment for you...and
we're not a substitute for Don Dickson, Carolyn Martin, Nancy Martin,
Jessica Gauvin, James Phillips...or any of the rest of them.

The POINT is...neither you nor KathLOON apparently give a DAMN about
anyone else besides yourselves.

You're not here to help others...but to moan and whine and b***h and
try to blame all your troubles on others.

You both have absolutely RUINED this board.

You're both pathetic, selfish immature JERKS.
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john
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

"the 3rd Man" <derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message

Quote:
The POINT is...neither you nor KathLOON apparently give a DAMN about
anyone else besides yourselves.

You're not here to help others...but to moan and whine and b***h and
try to blame all your troubles on others.

You both have absolutely RUINED this board.

You're both pathetic, selfish immature JERKS.

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now. And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..

Thankfully mom is much better now.. She went to Europe where they know how
to treat this illness properly (without meds) and got it out of her system
100%. And this was done 15 years ago and she has NEVER tested positive again
for lyme. She had a Dialysis type treatment done where they ran her blood
through this machine that would significantly heat up the temperature of her
blood and kill off all the bad stuff... and then the blood would be returned
to her body.. I do not know the specifics since it was done in Hungary and
the language and terms are different over there. But there is a cure out
there for this in Europeun countries... Our American Government over here
only knows how to treat illnesses with pills.. which helps the economy.

John
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eugeneshapiroisapig
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2108

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

I believe you are referring to a treatment which is available in the US
{not covered by insurance though} in which the blood is infused with
hydrogen peroxide and then exposed to ultraviolet radiation. the
problem with such a therapy is there are no controlled studies
available to validate its efficacy. also, infusing blood with hydrogen
peroxide can be dangerous, it must be done very carefully.

the expense of such a procedure, which is usually performed many times,
precludes many patients from pursuing it as an option.

but regardless of this, if LLMDs believed that such a therapy was
useful, believe me they would be prescribing it to thousands of
patients, and they do not. the same goes for hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
I was told to expect it to take 50 sessions before any relief would be
obtained. that's tens of thousands of dollars if not more. and there is
no guarantee you will get any benefit at all. or, if you do, whether
you will relapse 2 months later. and if that's the case, that the
patient is going to relapse anyway, you might as well stick to abx
because even IV abx are far cheaper than HBOT and are sometimes covered
by insurance.
john wrote:
Quote:
"the 3rd Man" <derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message

The POINT is...neither you nor KathLOON apparently give a DAMN about
anyone else besides yourselves.

You're not here to help others...but to moan and whine and b***h and
try to blame all your troubles on others.

You both have absolutely RUINED this board.

You're both pathetic, selfish immature JERKS.

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now. And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..

Thankfully mom is much better now.. She went to Europe where they know how
to treat this illness properly (without meds) and got it out of her system
100%. And this was done 15 years ago and she has NEVER tested positive again
for lyme. She had a Dialysis type treatment done where they ran her blood
through this machine that would significantly heat up the temperature of her
blood and kill off all the bad stuff... and then the blood would be returned
to her body.. I do not know the specifics since it was done in Hungary and
the language and terms are different over there. But there is a cure out
there for this in Europeun countries... Our American Government over here
only knows how to treat illnesses with pills.. which helps the economy.

John
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:20 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now. And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..


Is that so?

Interesting.

Well, maybe, maybe not...but it doesn't mean that you need to be
posting insanity here, now, does it?

Like this, for instance...courtesy of Mr. "Trong", here...

"I like the really big dicks...the ones that have a head about the size

of a plum or an apricot. so big that when you give the person a
blowjob, you can't get very much of it in your mouth - all you can do
is lick at the throbbing purplish head like a dog lapping an ice cream
cone - a big meaty sweaty ice cream cone. yummy. of course you have to
exercise care when putting such an object in your ass. but that's why
they make KY jelly".
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now. And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..

BTW...if you ahve been visiting this "particular Usenet forum" for
"years now"...how is it that you don't know the answer to the fairly
simple questions you asked?
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eugeneshapiroisapig
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2108

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

hey, that particular passage...while I may have written it...has been
posted by me once, and by you now at least twice...a similar phenomenon
has been observed wrt the "infamous virgin mary passage".

if it's so disturbing and disgusting to you, why are you continuously
reposting it? I haven't written anything like that in a while. would
you like me to? is it your way of asking me to write for your
delectation nasty passages about genitals?
the 3rd Man wrote:
Quote:
john wrote:

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now. And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..


Is that so?

Interesting.

Well, maybe, maybe not...but it doesn't mean that you need to be
posting insanity here, now, does it?

Like this, for instance...courtesy of Mr. "Trong", here...

"I like the really big dicks...the ones that have a head about the size

of a plum or an apricot. so big that when you give the person a
blowjob, you can't get very much of it in your mouth - all you can do
is lick at the throbbing purplish head like a dog lapping an ice cream
cone - a big meaty sweaty ice cream cone. yummy. of course you have to
exercise care when putting such an object in your ass. but that's why
they make KY jelly".
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

trong wrote:
Quote:

if it's so disturbing and disgusting to you, why are you continuously
reposting it?

Maybe you'd like to explain what goes through the mind of someone
before they post something like this...post it on an open board where
children can read it...

Email: " <mockingbird...@aol.com>
Groups: sci.med.diseases.lyme
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"I like the really big dicks...the ones that have a head about the size

of a plum or an apricot. so big that when you give the person a
blowjob, you can't get very much of it in your mouth - all you can do
is lick at the throbbing purplish head like a dog lapping an ice cream
cone - a big meaty sweaty ice cream cone. yummy. of course you have to
exercise care when putting such an object in your ass. but that's why
they make KY jelly".
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

trong wrote:


hey, that particular passage...while I may have written it...has been
posted by me once, and by you now at least twice...a similar
phenomenon
has been observed wrt the "infamous virgin mary passage".

You mean THIS?

Merlin wrote:


"...of course, her vagina was DISGUSTING. the christian religious
tradition
recognizes this fact by employing immaculate conception for it would be


unseemly for the son of god to be conceived amidst dribbling globs of
slimey love goo inside a stinking festering fecal-bacteria infested
barf bag of a hideous monstrous gonorrheal pus blob populated
unquestionably wooly super hairy nasty cunt"!


What do you mean "MAY" have written it?

Do you deny it?
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derdrittemann2003@yahoo.c
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1799

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now.

Really! Interesting. How do you know this, pray tell?

And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
Quote:
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..

Uh-huh. "Most likely", huh? Hmm. Read the thread "trong's greatest
hits"...read it carefully.
Quote:

Thankfully mom is much better now.. She went to Europe where they know how
to treat this illness properly (without meds) and got it out of her system
100%.

You're not talking about Bachynsky, here?


And this was done 15 years ago and she has NEVER tested positive again
Quote:
for lyme.

So? The antibody response fades. That means nothing.

She had a Dialysis type treatment done where they ran her blood
Quote:
through this machine that would significantly heat up the temperature of her
blood and kill off all the bad stuff... and then the blood would be returned
to her body.. I do not know the specifics since it was done in Hungary and
the language and terms are different over there. But there is a cure out
there for this in Europeun countries... Our American Government over here
only knows how to treat illnesses with pills.. which helps the economy.

You talking about ICHT?
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eugeneshapiroisapig
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2108

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: can Spinal Taps help diagnose Lyme? Reply with quote

also, btw, with UV blood irradiation, the theory is that it helps
activate and stimulate the immune system. Bb in its later stages is not
found much in the blood, it's only really in the blood in early
dissemination stages. later, it sequesters in deep tissues. what
happens with the sort of blood treatment to which you refer is not
direct killing of any bacteria, but rather {theoretically} an
alteration of immune cells circulating in the blood which supposedly
then go on to help clear or silence the infection {somehow}. I don't
mean to disparage your mother's experience...I have heard of this
therapy anecdotally working in other lyme patients...but not on a
massive scale.
john wrote:
Quote:
"the 3rd Man" <derdrittemann2003@yahoo.com> wrote in message

The POINT is...neither you nor KathLOON apparently give a DAMN about
anyone else besides yourselves.

You're not here to help others...but to moan and whine and b***h and
try to blame all your troubles on others.

You both have absolutely RUINED this board.

You're both pathetic, selfish immature JERKS.

Keep in mind...That this specific Usenet forum has been full of Loons for
years now. And its most likely because of the severe , confusing, mental
effects that long term Lyme has on the brain. Im not a patient, but my mom
was. And I must say... Lyme can turn you into a really , really, strange
individual..

Thankfully mom is much better now.. She went to Europe where they know how
to treat this illness properly (without meds) and got it out of her system
100%. And this was done 15 years ago and she has NEVER tested positive again
for lyme. She had a Dialysis type treatment done where they ran her blood
through this machine that would significantly heat up the temperature of her
blood and kill off all the bad stuff... and then the blood would be returned
to her body.. I do not know the specifics since it was done in Hungary and
the language and terms are different over there. But there is a cure out
there for this in Europeun countries... Our American Government over here
only knows how to treat illnesses with pills.. which helps the economy.

John
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