|
|
| Author |
Message |
listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Cholesterol drugs may treat hepatitis C
|
|
|
William Wagner <not-to-here-williamwag@gmail.com> wrote in news:not-to-
here-williamwag-C5B357.16342808072006@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net:
| Quote: | In article <e8p3e6$oud$1@reader2.panix.com>,
David Rind <drind@caregroup.harvard.edu> wrote:
B> > If I go to
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease-risk/HB00047
there is no mention of HDL and there is no longevity benefit. LDL
size
too expensive for me I'm calculated.
When I go there, I see a cardiac risk calculator. I'm not sure what
that
has to do with the sentence you wrote above or what your sentence
means.
For what it's worth, this risk calculator does not apply to people
with
known cardiovascular disease (i.e. the people I was saying get clear
benefits from statins).
see http://www.ti.ubc.ca/pages/letter.html 48 & 49
C> > What I am is suggesting that cholesterol is mute issue and
the
"Cure"
is flawed in that it causes harm. CoQ-10 issues.
Okay, since C is a "coherent" comment and not a question, what do you
think the word "mute" means? Also, when has anyone ever suggested that
statins are a "cure"? They are a drug taken chronically to treat a
chronic condition, and like all drugs they have benefits and harms. In
most patients with cardiovascular disease, the benefits far outweigh
the
harms.
Mute means it should be common knowledge everywhere but is not
available readably. Many folks never heard of CoQ-10 yet no TV
Crestor ad speaks of it. That is MUTE.
Harvard my ass.
Coherent... please do not try to insult me.
Gee, you think that first sentence from you might be an insult? Do you
think my pointing out the incoherence of your post is harsher than
that,
or do you figure on Usenet you get to make nasty comments but no one
should respond?
Harvard is not you but coherent was aimed at me. Harvard is a
moniker
to give validity to you posts. Just as Jim with the MIT address.
Post as folks and I'm sure you will be welcomed or scorned by your
words.
Hide like L and be treated as such.
Bill
|
Folks my ass.
L. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
David Rind
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:28 am Post subject:
Re: Cholesterol drugs may treat hepatitis C
|
|
|
William Wagner wrote:
| Quote: | Harvard is a moniker to give validity to you posts.
|
It's my email address. Unlike lots of people who post here, I actually
use my real live email address when I post. The validity of my posts or
lack thereof has nothing to do with my email address.
--
David Rind
drind@caregroup.harvard.edu |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Rind
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:29 am Post subject:
Re: Cholesterol drugs may treat hepatitis C
|
|
|
William Wagner wrote:
| Quote: | Hope Yale beats Harvard if that is coherent..
|
Not only coherent, you have my full support in that sentiment.
--
David Rind
drind@caregroup.harvard.edu |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sharon Hope
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 752
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Cholesterol drugs may treat hepatitis C
|
|
|
"David Rind" <drind@caregroup.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:e8p3e6$oud$1@reader2.panix.com...
| Quote: | William Wagner wrote:
A> > Ok for us folks where statins cause damage. I'd like to know why
lowering my total is a good thing ?
I haven't a clue whether statins are a good thing for you knowing nothing
about you or your medical history. However, for the average person with
known cardiovascular disease statins will decrease cardiovascular events
by about 30% and mortality by close to 20%.
|
Evidence from published journal articles? Absolute risk comparison is
nowhere near those numbers.
| Quote: | Statins don't cause serious enough side effects in most patients to
outweigh those sorts of benefits.
|
The people who spoke at the June 8th news conference on Pfizer's Lipitor
side effects are evidence that your comment is hopelessly out of touch with
reality. Their disabilities included memory loss, cognitive damage, muscle
weakness (to the extent that one man is unable to lift his 1 year old child,
another no longer able to reliably hold the controls through landing a
commercial airplane), neuropathy, and several suicide attempts - one
tragically successful by a 16 year old boy who was prescribed Lipitor for
prevention.
These are severe disabilities that preclude the patient from performing
work, normal recreation, and interaction with family. One resulted in
death, another in near death.
A recently published medical journal article showed 100% of statin patients
have muscle damage identifiable on muscle biopsy after only a few months.
Another recently published study showed all statin patients have measurable
cognitive impacts after 6 months.
Another recently published study showed neuropathy 26 times more likely in
statin patients.
| Quote: |
B> > If I go to
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease-risk/HB00047
there is no mention of HDL and there is no longevity benefit. LDL size
too expensive for me I'm calculated.
When I go there, I see a cardiac risk calculator. I'm not sure what that
has to do with the sentence you wrote above or what your sentence means.
For what it's worth, this risk calculator does not apply to people with
known cardiovascular disease (i.e. the people I was saying get clear
benefits from statins).
C> > What I am is suggesting that cholesterol is mute issue and the
"Cure"
is flawed in that it causes harm. CoQ-10 issues.
Okay, since C is a "coherent" comment and not a question, what do you
think the word "mute" means? Also, when has anyone ever suggested that
statins are a "cure"? They are a drug taken chronically to treat a chronic
condition, and like all drugs they have benefits and harms. In most
patients with cardiovascular disease, the benefits far outweigh the harms.
Harvard my ass.
Coherent... please do not try to insult me.
Gee, you think that first sentence from you might be an insult? Do you
think my pointing out the incoherence of your post is harsher than that,
or do you figure on Usenet you get to make nasty comments but no one
should respond?
--
David Rind
drind@caregroup.harvard.edu |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Rind
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 205
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Cholesterol drugs may treat hepatitis C
|
|
|
Sharon Hope wrote:
| Quote: | "David Rind" <drind@caregroup.harvard.edu> wrote in message
I haven't a clue whether statins are a good thing for you knowing nothing
about you or your medical history. However, for the average person with
known cardiovascular disease statins will decrease cardiovascular events
by about 30% and mortality by close to 20%.
Evidence from published journal articles? Absolute risk comparison is
nowhere near those numbers.
|
Those would be rather astounding absolute risk benefits, since they
would make the cardiovascular risk go negative in lots of people.
No, they are, of course, relative risk benefits. Since the absolute risk
benefit depends on the absolute risk, you can't actually give a single
number.
But, the absolute risk benefits for mortality in people with known
cardiovascular disease are on the order of 5 to 7 percent over five to
ten years. Lower than that if you don't have very bad CVD, higher than
that if you are at extremely high risk. The cardiovascular event risk
benefits are on the order of 10-15 percent.
| Quote: | The people who spoke at the June 8th news conference on Pfizer's Lipitor
side effects are evidence that your comment is hopelessly out of touch with
reality.
|
They were there speaking because they have side effects or think they
do. What percentage of the people on Lipitor in the US spoke at that
news conference?
| Quote: | A recently published medical journal article showed 100% of statin patients
have muscle damage identifiable on muscle biopsy after only a few months.
|
Please post the citation to this published article.
| Quote: | Another recently published study showed all statin patients have measurable
cognitive impacts after 6 months.
|
That's twisting what was actually published. But even if true would not
change what I said above. The measured cognitive impacts were minor and
death turns out to have severe cognitive impacts in 100% of people.
| Quote: | Another recently published study showed neuropathy 26 times more likely in
statin patients.
|
The published evidence on statins and neuropathy conflicts.
Again, though, I in no way think statins are without harms. I think
lipid lowering drugs are being overused in the US in low risk patients.
But that doesn't mean that they aren't amazing drugs for the people who
really need them. That you cannot see greys suggests more of a problem
with how you are looking at statins than with the statins themselves.
--
David Rind
drind@caregroup.harvard.edu |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:32 am Post subject:
Re: Cholesterol drugs may treat hepatitis C
|
|
|
"Sharon Hope" <shope@anet.net> wrote in
news:YJ6dnVYl09lb7izZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@comcast.com:
| Quote: | A recently published medical journal article showed 100% of statin
patients
have muscle damage identifiable on muscle biopsy after only a few months.
|
Link, please?
L. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Google
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
The time now is Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:31 pm | All times are GMT
|
|
Credit Cards UK | Mobile Phones | Loans | Lincoln LS | Free Advertising
|
|
Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
|
|
Other DeniX Solutions sites:
electronics forum,
Science forum
Unix/Linux blog
Unix/Linux documentation
Unix/Linux forums
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Forum index
»
Medicine forums
»
cardiology
