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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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 Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject:
Eating too much fat?
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060707.NUTRITION07/TPStory/National
Eating too much fat? That's rich
Wealth and grease in diet go together, Statscan discovers in national
survey
JILL MAHONEY
SOCIAL TRENDS REPORTER
Well-off people eat more fatty foods than the poor, according to a
landmark Statistics Canada report on the nation's dietary habits.
However, those with higher incomes also consume more fruit and
vegetables than other Canadians.
"People with more money seem to eat more of everything," Didier
Garriguet, a Statscan analyst who wrote the paper, said yesterday.
The first national snapshot since the early 1970s of Canadians' eating
patterns -- the largest and most comprehensive survey of its kind yet
conducted in the country -- found that essentially no one follows all
the recommendations for a healthy and balanced diet made in Canada's
Food Guide to Healthy Eating.
In face-to-face interviews in 2004, more than 35,000 people were asked
to recall in minute detail what they had consumed the previous day, as
well as when they had eaten and where the food had been prepared.
Almost one-third of those did a second interview a few days later. The
study found:
Most Canadians are not eating five daily servings of fruit and
vegetables, the minimum recommended, including half of adults and 70
per cent of children aged four to eight.
People do not drink enough milk, with one in three children aged four
to nine and two in three adults over age 30 consuming fewer than the
recommended servings.
More than a quarter of children aged four to eight eat fewer servings
of grains than they should, a trend that increases as people age; 66
per cent of women 71 and older do not eat enough bread, cereals and
pasta.
After grains, "other foods" -- including beverages, salad dressing,
candy and other items that are mostly fats, oils or sugar -- are the
second-highest calorie providers, supplying an average of 22 per cent
of daily energy. The Health Canada food guide urges that they be
consumed in moderation.
On average, people are eating the recommended amount of meat and other
proteins. About one in four men eats more than his daily requirement.
Nearly 10 per cent of people skip breakfast, including almost 20 per
cent of men aged 19 to 30.
Snacks account for more calories than breakfast and about the same as
lunch.
A sizable number of Canadians eat too many fat-laden foods. More than
one in four of those aged 31 to 50 get more than 35 per cent of their
total calories from fat, the level beyond which experts say health
risks increase.
However, Bruce Holub, a professor emeritus of nutritional sciences at
the University of Guelph, said the study should have broken down fats
into saturated and unsaturated.
"We need to, in the fat area, focus much more in reducing bad and ugly
fats and increasing the good and [be] not so much focused on total fat
intake," he said.
In high-income households, 25 per cent of adults get more than 35 per
cent of their total caloric intake from fat, compared with just 15 per
cent among households with the lowest income. (The study found
children's diets less likely to be tied to income.)
"It may be reflective of the fact that there may be more eating out of
fast foods in . . . [the] fast-paced lives . . . [of] people who have
higher incomes," said Beth Abramson, a Toronto cardiologist and
spokeswoman for the Heart and Stroke Foundation. "When we eat out,
there are hidden calories from fats."
Almost one in three respondents in the upper-income bracket -- the
highest among all groups -- ate at fast-food restaurants the day before
they were surveyed, from having a black coffee at Starbucks to a Big
Mac at McDonald's. Over all, one in four respondents bought something
at a fast-food outlet: 40 per cent ate pizza, a sandwich, a burger or a
hot dog. (Statscan did not examine the relationship between the rich's
high fat intake and their propensity to eat fast food.)
Despite the findings on fat, Canadians are generally consuming fewer
calories from fat than they did in the survey in the 1970s. Then, their
fat intake averaged about 40 per cent of total calories, while it is
now averages about 31 per cent. Their overall calorie consumption is
about the same as it was in the early 1970s.
The report also found regional differences, with those who live in
Atlantic Canada and the Prairies falling farther behind on eating
recommended amounts of fruit and vegetables. Atlantic Canadians are
also more likely to snack between meals. Quebeckers are less likely to
eat at fast-food outlets, while young Quebeckers are more likely to eat
fatty foods.
**********
Interesting, was there not some recent studies that said that the
poorest people are the fattest? If richer people eat more fat than
poor, should the rich not suffer more obesity?
Maybe it isn't the fat that is the problem but the carbs? Poor people
eat less, more expensive, meats and fats and they eat more cheap grains
like pasta and bread and they are fatter.
Rich people eat more of the expensive meats and fats and less of the
cheap grains and are less obese.
TC |
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Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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Personally, I eat food. Natural food that is.
Just thought that you might want to know.  |
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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TC wrote:
| Quote: | Interesting, was there not some recent studies that said that the
poorest people are the fattest? If richer people eat more fat than
poor, should the rich not suffer more obesity?
|
Obesity depends on the calorie balance. Obese people have a higher
basal metabolism but are less physically active making for lower
calorie needs for obese people.
| Quote: | Maybe it isn't the fat that is the problem but the carbs? Poor people
eat less, more expensive, meats and fats and they eat more cheap grains
like pasta and bread and they are fatter.
|
Yes, in other studies, it's been observed that poor people eat less
fruits and vegetables.
| Quote: | Rich people eat more of the expensive meats and fats and less of the
cheap grains and are less obese.
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Cardio-vascular problems can occur in people who aren't obese. Diet may
make a difference even if obesity isn't present.
--
Ron |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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Ron Peterson wrote:
| Quote: | TC wrote:
Interesting, was there not some recent studies that said that the
poorest people are the fattest? If richer people eat more fat than
poor, should the rich not suffer more obesity?
Obesity depends on the calorie balance. Obese people have a higher
basal metabolism but are less physically active making for lower
calorie needs for obese people.
|
Calorie balance? What exactly is the bio-mechanism that determines the
calorie balance and triggers fat storage or fat breakdown? What
hormones or enzymes are involved and what are the biological cascades
that are involved in this feedback bio-mechanism? Huh?
TC |
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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TC wrote:
| Quote: | Ron Peterson wrote:
Obesity depends on the calorie balance. Obese people have a higher
basal metabolism but are less physically active making for lower
calorie needs for obese people.
Calorie balance? What exactly is the bio-mechanism that determines the
calorie balance and triggers fat storage or fat breakdown?
|
Consuming more calories than one burns determines fat storage. There is
a little inefficiency in converting carbohydrates to fat, but most
people don't have low enough fat intake to make that a factor.
| Quote: | What hormones or enzymes are involved and what are the biological cascades
that are involved in this feedback bio-mechanism? Huh?
|
I don't remember saying anything about a feedback bio-mechanism.
--
Ron |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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Ron Peterson wrote:
| Quote: | TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
Obesity depends on the calorie balance. Obese people have a higher
basal metabolism but are less physically active making for lower
calorie needs for obese people.
Calorie balance? What exactly is the bio-mechanism that determines the
calorie balance and triggers fat storage or fat breakdown?
Consuming more calories than one burns determines fat storage. There is
a little inefficiency in converting carbohydrates to fat, but most
people don't have low enough fat intake to make that a factor.
What hormones or enzymes are involved and what are the biological cascades
that are involved in this feedback bio-mechanism? Huh?
I don't remember saying anything about a feedback bio-mechanism.
--
Ron
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There must be a relatively simple feedback mechanism. By that I mean
there must be a way that the body detects a caloric imbalance and a
resulting series of reactions that end with the body being triggered to
store fat or to loss fat. What is the metabolic cascades that goes from
"there are too many leftover calories" to "hey fat cells, here comes
some fat, store it" or conversely that goes from "we don't have enough
calories coming in from food to fuel all the activities and processes"
to "hey fat cells, give up some fat and burn some so that we can meet
our fuel requirements". The former would result in gaining weight and
the former would rsult in loss of weight.
How exactly is the caloric imbalance detected? By what cells? By what
processes? y what bio-chemical cascades? And how exactly does this
determination then trigger the conversion of foodstuffs to fat in the
cell? What is the exact bio-chemical or metabolic processes that do
this?
If calories are the trigger, then we ought to have documented the exact
mechanisms that take place from the point of caloric balance detection
to fat storage or fat loss. Show me a metabolic diagram that explains
the process in detail, or describe the exact series of metabolic
processes involved.
TC |
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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TC wrote:
| Quote: | Ron Peterson wrote:
I don't remember saying anything about a feedback bio-mechanism.
There must be a relatively simple feedback mechanism. By that I mean
there must be a way that the body detects a caloric imbalance and a
resulting series of reactions that end with the body being triggered to
store fat or to loss fat. What is the metabolic cascades that goes from
"there are too many leftover calories" to "hey fat cells, here comes
some fat, store it" or conversely that goes from "we don't have enough
calories coming in from food to fuel all the activities and processes"
to "hey fat cells, give up some fat and burn some so that we can meet
our fuel requirements". The former would result in gaining weight and
the former would rsult in loss of weight.
|
Carbohydrates end up in the blood stream as glucose and if the levels
are high enough gets converted to glycogen and stored in the liver. The
liver can't grow very large, so there isn't much weight gain from
glycogen storage.
Fatty acids end up as triglycerides which get stored in fat cells. The
human body stores those fatty acids in about the same proportion as
they are consumed.
One study showed that trans-fats and saturated fats tend to get stored
around the liver in test animals, with mono unsaturated fatty acids to
a lesser extent and poly-unsatured not at all.
| Quote: | How exactly is the caloric imbalance detected? By what cells? By what
processes? y what bio-chemical cascades? And how exactly does this
determination then trigger the conversion of foodstuffs to fat in the
cell? What is the exact bio-chemical or metabolic processes that do
this?
|
I think its really a balance relationship with fat coming out of fat
cells at a certain rate and going in when the concetration of
triglycerides becomes high.
Aerobic exercise tends to burn carbs and fat at about the same rate,
but I haven't seen anything to indicate the different types of fatty
acids get burned at different rates.
| Quote: | If calories are the trigger, then we ought to have documented the exact
mechanisms that take place from the point of caloric balance detection
to fat storage or fat loss. Show me a metabolic diagram that explains
the process in detail, or describe the exact series of metabolic
processes involved.
|
That's beyond my knowledge. I don't know if your assumption that there
is a trigger is correct. What would happen to calories if they didn't
get stored?
--
Ron |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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Ron Peterson wrote:
| Quote: | TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
I don't remember saying anything about a feedback bio-mechanism.
There must be a relatively simple feedback mechanism. By that I mean
there must be a way that the body detects a caloric imbalance and a
resulting series of reactions that end with the body being triggered to
store fat or to loss fat. What is the metabolic cascades that goes from
"there are too many leftover calories" to "hey fat cells, here comes
some fat, store it" or conversely that goes from "we don't have enough
calories coming in from food to fuel all the activities and processes"
to "hey fat cells, give up some fat and burn some so that we can meet
our fuel requirements". The former would result in gaining weight and
the former would rsult in loss of weight.
Carbohydrates end up in the blood stream as glucose and if the levels
are high enough gets converted to glycogen and stored in the liver. The
liver can't grow very large, so there isn't much weight gain from
glycogen storage.
|
And if the bg levels are high enough, the pancreas has to kick out
massive amounts of insulin which triggers all the fat cells of the body
to store fats. The body has a limited capacity to store excess
carbohydrates, but it can easily convert those excess carbohydrates
into excess body fat.
| Quote: |
Fatty acids end up as triglycerides which get stored in fat cells. The
human body stores those fatty acids in about the same proportion as
they are consumed.
|
How does it know to store them? What triggers it?
| Quote: |
One study showed that trans-fats and saturated fats tend to get stored
around the liver in test animals, with mono unsaturated fatty acids to
a lesser extent and poly-unsatured not at all.
How exactly is the caloric imbalance detected? By what cells? By what
processes? y what bio-chemical cascades? And how exactly does this
determination then trigger the conversion of foodstuffs to fat in the
cell? What is the exact bio-chemical or metabolic processes that do
this?
I think its really a balance relationship with fat coming out of fat
cells at a certain rate and going in when the concetration of
triglycerides becomes high.
|
How exactly? Hormones? Enzymes? Molecules attaching to receptors?
Triggering what?
| Quote: |
Aerobic exercise tends to burn carbs and fat at about the same rate,
but I haven't seen anything to indicate the different types of fatty
acids get burned at different rates.
|
Not if you carb up before the exercise, the body has to either use up
the excessive carbs now or store it as fat now. So if you carb up and
then exercise, the body has to use all the available glycogen before it
can tackle any stored fats. Keep the bg levels high every day, every
couple of hours, and the cells are continually triggered to store the
excess carbs as fat. If you have high bg levels it will take protracted
exercising to use up the available carbs to cause the insulin levels to
drop enough to triggered to use fat.
Endocrinology 101
| Quote: |
If calories are the trigger, then we ought to have documented the exact
mechanisms that take place from the point of caloric balance detection
to fat storage or fat loss. Show me a metabolic diagram that explains
the process in detail, or describe the exact series of metabolic
processes involved.
That's beyond my knowledge. I don't know if your assumption that there
is a trigger is correct. What would happen to calories if they didn't
get stored?
--
Ron
|
There has to be. If there is no way for the body to regulate fat
storage or fat loss in direct reaction to the mythical and mystical all
powerful caloric balance, then the concept of caloric balance and
weight management in humans is no more than a bad joke.
TC |
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jt
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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On 7 Jul 2006 07:46:57 -0700, "TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060707.NUTRITION07/TPStory/National
Eating too much fat? That's rich
Wealth and grease in diet go together, Statscan discovers in national
survey
JILL MAHONEY
SOCIAL TRENDS REPORTER
Well-off people eat more fatty foods than the poor, according to a
landmark Statistics Canada report on the nation's dietary habits.
However, those with higher incomes also consume more fruit and
vegetables than other Canadians.
"People with more money seem to eat more of everything," Didier
Garriguet, a Statscan analyst who wrote the paper, said yesterday.
The first national snapshot since the early 1970s of Canadians' eating
patterns -- the largest and most comprehensive survey of its kind yet
conducted in the country -- found that essentially no one follows all
the recommendations for a healthy and balanced diet made in Canada's
Food Guide to Healthy Eating.
In face-to-face interviews in 2004, more than 35,000 people were asked
to recall in minute detail what they had consumed the previous day, as
well as when they had eaten and where the food had been prepared.
Almost one-third of those did a second interview a few days later. The
study found:
Most Canadians are not eating five daily servings of fruit and
vegetables, the minimum recommended, including half of adults and 70
per cent of children aged four to eight.
People do not drink enough milk, with one in three children aged four
to nine and two in three adults over age 30 consuming fewer than the
recommended servings.
More than a quarter of children aged four to eight eat fewer servings
of grains than they should, a trend that increases as people age; 66
per cent of women 71 and older do not eat enough bread, cereals and
pasta.
After grains, "other foods" -- including beverages, salad dressing,
candy and other items that are mostly fats, oils or sugar -- are the
second-highest calorie providers, supplying an average of 22 per cent
of daily energy. The Health Canada food guide urges that they be
consumed in moderation.
On average, people are eating the recommended amount of meat and other
proteins. About one in four men eats more than his daily requirement.
Nearly 10 per cent of people skip breakfast, including almost 20 per
cent of men aged 19 to 30.
Snacks account for more calories than breakfast and about the same as
lunch.
A sizable number of Canadians eat too many fat-laden foods. More than
one in four of those aged 31 to 50 get more than 35 per cent of their
total calories from fat, the level beyond which experts say health
risks increase.
However, Bruce Holub, a professor emeritus of nutritional sciences at
the University of Guelph, said the study should have broken down fats
into saturated and unsaturated.
"We need to, in the fat area, focus much more in reducing bad and ugly
fats and increasing the good and [be] not so much focused on total fat
intake," he said.
In high-income households, 25 per cent of adults get more than 35 per
cent of their total caloric intake from fat, compared with just 15 per
cent among households with the lowest income. (The study found
children's diets less likely to be tied to income.)
"It may be reflective of the fact that there may be more eating out of
fast foods in . . . [the] fast-paced lives . . . [of] people who have
higher incomes," said Beth Abramson, a Toronto cardiologist and
spokeswoman for the Heart and Stroke Foundation. "When we eat out,
there are hidden calories from fats."
Almost one in three respondents in the upper-income bracket -- the
highest among all groups -- ate at fast-food restaurants the day before
they were surveyed, from having a black coffee at Starbucks to a Big
Mac at McDonald's. Over all, one in four respondents bought something
at a fast-food outlet: 40 per cent ate pizza, a sandwich, a burger or a
hot dog. (Statscan did not examine the relationship between the rich's
high fat intake and their propensity to eat fast food.)
Despite the findings on fat, Canadians are generally consuming fewer
calories from fat than they did in the survey in the 1970s. Then, their
fat intake averaged about 40 per cent of total calories, while it is
now averages about 31 per cent. Their overall calorie consumption is
about the same as it was in the early 1970s.
The report also found regional differences, with those who live in
Atlantic Canada and the Prairies falling farther behind on eating
recommended amounts of fruit and vegetables. Atlantic Canadians are
also more likely to snack between meals. Quebeckers are less likely to
eat at fast-food outlets, while young Quebeckers are more likely to eat
fatty foods.
**********
Interesting, was there not some recent studies that said that the
poorest people are the fattest? If richer people eat more fat than
poor, should the rich not suffer more obesity?
Maybe it isn't the fat that is the problem but the carbs?
|
Are you ever fucking going to look at the problem and not the symptom?
Guess what carbs don't cause diabetes.
| Quote: | Poor people eat less, more expensive, meats and fats and they eat more cheap grains
like pasta and bread and they are fatter.
|
Rich people use butter not margarine etc etc.
| Quote: |
Rich people eat more of the expensive meats and fats and less of the
cheap grains and are less obese.
and what to cheap grains have in common? Rancid vegetable oils. 99% |
of these rancid disease and cell death causing vegetable oils are used
on starches, grains, processed crap.
A diet of fruit,whole grains without the oils, dairy, meats regardless
of fat and carb makeup is not going to cause you to get type 2
diabetes or become obese.
Poor diets cause health problems which can lead to obesity and type 2
diabetes more than a healthy person eating the same # of calories. |
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:04 am Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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TC wrote:
| Quote: | Ron Peterson wrote:
Carbohydrates end up in the blood stream as glucose and if the levels
are high enough gets converted to glycogen and stored in the liver. The
liver can't grow very large, so there isn't much weight gain from
glycogen storage.
And if the bg levels are high enough, the pancreas has to kick out
massive amounts of insulin which triggers all the fat cells of the body
to store fats. The body has a limited capacity to store excess
carbohydrates, but it can easily convert those excess carbohydrates
into excess body fat.
|
The website http://www.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell.htm explains the
process in detail.
It states: "On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in
glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23
calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it.
Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than
the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store."
Website http://www.essentialfats.com/efats1.htm states: "Since the body
cannot make EFAs, we must consume them as part of our diets. This is
not true of other types of fat, because the body can easily convert
carbohydrates and protein to saturated fatty acids (SFAs) and
monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs), but not to polyunsaturated fatty
acids (PUFAs)."
I think that it might pay to keep ones carbohydrate calories below that
normally consumed in a day to prevent the conversion to saturated fats.
--
Ron |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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Ron Peterson wrote:
| Quote: | TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
Carbohydrates end up in the blood stream as glucose and if the levels
are high enough gets converted to glycogen and stored in the liver. The
liver can't grow very large, so there isn't much weight gain from
glycogen storage.
And if the bg levels are high enough, the pancreas has to kick out
massive amounts of insulin which triggers all the fat cells of the body
to store fats. The body has a limited capacity to store excess
carbohydrates, but it can easily convert those excess carbohydrates
into excess body fat.
The website http://www.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell.htm explains the
process in detail.
It states: "On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in
glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23
calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it.
Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than
the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store."
Website http://www.essentialfats.com/efats1.htm states: "Since the body
cannot make EFAs, we must consume them as part of our diets. This is
not true of other types of fat, because the body can easily convert
carbohydrates and protein to saturated fatty acids (SFAs) and
monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs), but not to polyunsaturated fatty
acids (PUFAs)."
I think that it might pay to keep ones carbohydrate calories below that
normally consumed in a day to prevent the conversion to saturated fats.
--
Ron
|
I don't want some pathetic grade school over-simplified explanation. I
want the science. Either and university textbook reference or a
scientific treatise or study that explains it in depth. The real deal.
Actual science. The actual bio-chemical complex processes that take
place. You know, the stuff that they use to teach our advanced degreed
medical people.
TC |
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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TC wrote:
| Quote: | Ron Peterson wrote:
The website http://www.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell.htm explains the
process in detail.
It states: "On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in
glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23
calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it.
Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than
the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store."
Website http://www.essentialfats.com/efats1.htm states: "Since the body
cannot make EFAs, we must consume them as part of our diets. This is
not true of other types of fat, because the body can easily convert
carbohydrates and protein to saturated fatty acids (SFAs) and
monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs), but not to polyunsaturated fatty
acids (PUFAs)."
I think that it might pay to keep ones carbohydrate calories below that
normally consumed in a day to prevent the conversion to saturated fats.
I don't want some pathetic grade school over-simplified explanation. I
want the science. Either and university textbook reference or a
scientific treatise or study that explains it in depth. The real deal.
Actual science. The actual bio-chemical complex processes that take
place. You know, the stuff that they use to teach our advanced degreed
medical people.
|
I don't know if what you're asking is known in the detail that you
want. Most people can search the web, read jounal and textbooks and
take classes. If I find out anything pertinent, I may post it in this
newsgroup and I encourage you to do the same.
--
Ron |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
|
|
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Ron Peterson wrote:
| Quote: | TC wrote:
Ron Peterson wrote:
The website http://www.howstuffworks.com/fat-cell.htm explains the
process in detail.
It states: "On the other hand, if you have 100 extra calories in
glucose (about 25 grams) floating in your bloodstream, it takes 23
calories of energy to convert the glucose into fat and then store it.
Given a choice, a fat cell will grab the fat and store it rather than
the carbohydrates because fat is so much easier to store."
Website http://www.essentialfats.com/efats1.htm states: "Since the body
cannot make EFAs, we must consume them as part of our diets. This is
not true of other types of fat, because the body can easily convert
carbohydrates and protein to saturated fatty acids (SFAs) and
monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs), but not to polyunsaturated fatty
acids (PUFAs)."
I think that it might pay to keep ones carbohydrate calories below that
normally consumed in a day to prevent the conversion to saturated fats.
I don't want some pathetic grade school over-simplified explanation. I
want the science. Either and university textbook reference or a
scientific treatise or study that explains it in depth. The real deal.
Actual science. The actual bio-chemical complex processes that take
place. You know, the stuff that they use to teach our advanced degreed
medical people.
I don't know if what you're asking is known in the detail that you
want. Most people can search the web, read jounal and textbooks and
take classes. If I find out anything pertinent, I may post it in this
newsgroup and I encourage you to do the same.
--
Ron
|
If the university professors teach our advanced degree researchers,
future nutrition professors, doctors, medical weight experts,
dietitians, etc. that calories cause weight gain or weight loss, at
some point in time, they must show them on a chart or in a textbook,
the most detailed information available that describes clearly exactly
how the body differentiates a negative or a positive calorie balance
and the subsequent cascades of bio-chemical events that lead in the end
to fat storage or fat loss. A complete description involves organs and
cells and enzymes and hormones and receptors and molecules etc. This
should be in the chapter with "Calories" in the title.
Find it and post it. Because without taking this black box concept and
actually breaking it down and understanding the exact processes in
place, after a century or more, you have to ask yourself a few simple
questions. Is this really a valid concept? Especially when more than
95% of cases of applying the low calorie idea in the real world fails.
The problem is not in the people applying the theory, it is in the
caloric balance theory itself. It is smoke and mirrors.
TC |
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Ron Peterson
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 181
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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TC wrote:
| Quote: | Find it and post it.
|
I don't see why I have to do anything. I'm not making any extraordinary
claim.
| Quote: | The problem is not in the people applying the theory, it is in the
caloric balance theory itself. It is smoke and mirrors.
|
Where is your evidence. You seem to be saying that calories may be
consumed without being burned, excreted, or stored.
--
Ron |
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TC
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1814
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Eating too much fat?
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Ron Peterson wrote:
| Quote: | TC wrote:
Find it and post it.
I don't see why I have to do anything. I'm not making any extraordinary
claim.
The problem is not in the people applying the theory, it is in the
caloric balance theory itself. It is smoke and mirrors.
Where is your evidence. You seem to be saying that calories may be
consumed without being burned, excreted, or stored.
--
Ron
|
They are either "burned", excreted or stored. Certainly. And some
advanced degree egghead with big round eyeglasses and a slide rule will
do the calculations and pronounce the results with great authority. And
maybe the big rooster will, in fact, find himself in the garbage can.
But the vast majority of people who do the calculations, some with
great precision and dedication, will fail to succeed in losing more
than a few pounds and then promptly regain it all, and then some,
quickly after backing off just a bit on the whole exercise.
Calories are measures of energy and they can be measured in a
calorimeter. They are a real and measurable entity. But "they" have no
actually known way of actually impacting the body in such a way as to
actually trigger fat storage or fat loss. There exists a wide chasm of
disconnect between the theory and the reality.
The energy certainly has to be accounted for in the end, and I am sure
that in the wider scheme of things it is, but not quite in the precise
way you would like to think. And not with the constant and direct
linear relationship that the calorie balance theory suggests. There are
factors that the theory conveniently ignores and tries to rationalise,
and the rationalization usually involves blaming the poor sap who is
genuinely trying to make it work in the real world where there is a
better than 95% failure rate.
If we talk about carbs we go from A to B to C. A being elevated blood
glucose levels, B being a constant chronic boost in insulin production
and C is the insulin triggering the cells to use as much of the sugar
as possible to create and store fat. And we can go into excruciating
details about all the bio-chemical cascades, the blood sugar values
increasing to unusually high levels over time then decreasing over
time, the hormonal balance between insulin and glucagon, the insulin
receptors, the atp, the formation of fat in the cells, etc, etc etc.
Any basic bio-chemistry textbook will tell you all they know about the
endocrine system and how it is impacted by carbs and how it triggers
hormonal fluctuations which in turn causes fat storage.
If we talk about calories we should go from A to B to C, but all we
have is A - we eat more calories (usually fats) the B - something
happens and C - we gain weight.
We assume a clear and specific constantly linear mathematical
equivalent between caloric balance and weight gain or loss. Yet all the
real world evidence seems to contradict it. We north americans, as a
people, have increased our carb consumption by about 12% since the 70's
and decreased our fat consumption by about 10%, just as we were advised
to do to maintain weight and good health. If you do the math that
should net out to less overall calories.
Yet we have NEVER been more obese or more sick. However you look at it,
the caloric balance approach to weight and health management has
failed.
Now, you may dispute the last two paragraphs, or at least the second
last paragraph above, but if you are going to prove that the caloric
balance theory is 100% mathematically valid, you will actually have to
flesh out how exactly it works in the human body. Start at the
beginning. The calories are consumed and the body knows it has excess
calories to manage, how does it know that exactly, and what does it do
to deal with it? Blood sugars? Hormones? Receptor? Thermometers?
Switches? Transistors? Feedback loops?
Do we know anything at all about the biological mechanism that
supposedly exists within that mysterious and mystical black box of the
caloric balance theory other than "cause I said so"?
TC |
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