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| Author |
Message |
Anon E. Muss
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 136
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:38 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
On 3 Jul 2006 07:17:04 -0700, "Quickpure" <ABURRIS@QUICKPURE.COM>
wrote:
| Quote: | Ragnar is correct that B&L would like people to believe that the
problems with their lens cleaning solutions is only the fault of poor
patient hygiene.
|
I am convinced that the association of fusarium keratitis with BL
MoisturLOC's solution is related to patients not following proper lens
hygiene -- that is doing things like not changing the solution in the
case daily, not rinsing out the contact lens case with hot water and
letting it air dry, not closing the bottle lid properly, not washing
their hands, etc.
IOW, if patients did proper lens hygiene I believe this "fusarium
outbreak" would not have occured.
Basically, B&L with MoisturLOC was a lot less forgiving when patients
didn't do what they were supposed to do.
| Quote: | However the contact lens industry has long been well aware that
patient compliance with manufacturers regimens is poor
|
Whose fault is that? The lazy patient's.
The manufacturers have long realized this and have attempted to reduce
the number of steps and make things simpler in order to increase
compliance.
And even with care systems as simple as the one-step multipurpose
solution care systems are now, many patients are non-compliant due to
laziness and do not taking their doctors seriously when they tell them
of the risks of poor lens hygiene/care.
| Quote: | and that the prescribed multipurpose lens care solutions have failed
to prevent approximately 25,000 annual cases of microbial keratitis
plus hundreds of thousands of cases of CLARE.
|
The vast majority of these cases of bacterial keratitis and CLARE in
contact lens patients are related to *extended wear*, not the
solutions or care system.
I bet 95% of the soft contact lens wearers who are diagnosed with
bacterial keratitis in my practice have an immediate antecedent
history of extended wear, and of the 5% remaining, I suspect half of
them lied about not sleeping in their lenses. With CLARE, I bet it's
an even higher percentage.
| Quote: | There has been inadequate warning of the risks to users of contact
lenses.
|
Patients need to take their doctors recommendations seriously.
And FWIW, silicone hydrogel contacts haven't eliminated bacterial
keratitis in my extended wear patients either. I actually had several
cases of patients in the course of a few months that I switched from
years of successful EW in ACUVUE to Ciba Focus Night & Day develop
CLARE and/or bacterial keratitis. |
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Glenn - USAEyes.org
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 129
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:38 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:38:49 -0700, Anon E. Muss
<anonymous@example.org> wrote:
| Quote: | On 3 Jul 2006 07:17:04 -0700, "Quickpure" <ABURRIS@QUICKPURE.COM
wrote:
Ragnar is correct that B&L would like people to believe that the
problems with their lens cleaning solutions is only the fault of poor
patient hygiene.
I am convinced that the association of fusarium keratitis with BL
MoisturLOC's solution is related to patients not following proper lens
hygiene -- that is doing things like not changing the solution in the
case daily, not rinsing out the contact lens case with hot water and
letting it air dry, not closing the bottle lid properly, not washing
their hands, etc.
|
It seems reasonable that hygiene has contributed to the problem. This
would explain why soft contact lens wearers who did not use B&L's ReNu
with MoistureLoc have developed problems, but I don't think hygiene
alone is going to get B&L off the hook. It would appear (just by
observation and logic, not by proven study) that there is something
about ReNu with MoistureLoc that exacerbated the situation. That would
explain why a majority of the soft contact lens wearers who did
develop problems were using ReNu with MoistureLoc.
Whether B&L is trying to make people believe that the whole problem
was because of hygiene or not, the new program is an excellent method
of educating contact lens wearers of good hygiene and B&L is not
requiring people use B&L products to get the kit. Anyone who requests
it is getting it, no matter whose products they use.
Glenn Hagele
Executive Director
USAEyes.org
Patient Advocacy Surgeon Certification
"Consider and Choose With Confidence"
Email to glenn dot hagele at usaeyes dot org
http://www.USAEyes.org
http://www.ComplicatedEyes.org
I am not a doctor. |
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JPG
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 569
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:57 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:15:44 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On 2 Jul 2006 17:08:33 -0700, "Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote:
Ann wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:19:07 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
I tend to agree with you.... there are many issues involved in
solutions... preservatives vs non-preserved... for instance...
distilled water is not chlorinated.. so distilled water is potentially
a medium for bacteria soup.
And I promise tnot to make a big issure out of this.. even though I
probably should.. but this is a good reason to have LASIK... to be
free of sticking solutions into your eyes. Don't get me started on
the old pretien eating pig pancreatin tablets....
You generalise too much. LASIK isn't good for all. It wouldn't be
good for me as I am monocular. Too risky.
Ann
That's for sure. LASIK is inherently riskier than any contact lens.
DrG
That is completely false. You have no business practicing as a doctor
and putting forth such blatant false nonsense. You should be ashamed
of yourself.
I might add one thing to this. LASIK is the most performed surgery of
all time.. and the only surgery that has never had a fatality.
HOWEVER, I know of a case where an irresponsible optometrist gave a
post-lasik patient some gloom and doom scenario to scare the patient -
and the patient wound up committing suicide. That optometrist should
have been charged with manslaughter and malpractice. The name of
that optometrist slips my mind at the moment.
|
So are you saying that you would advise a monocular patient to undergo
LASIK? I've never come across anyone yet who would advise such a
thing whether or not they had a vested interest.
Ann |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 08:57:10 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:15:44 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
On 2 Jul 2006 17:08:33 -0700, "Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote:
Ann wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:19:07 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
I tend to agree with you.... there are many issues involved in
solutions... preservatives vs non-preserved... for instance...
distilled water is not chlorinated.. so distilled water is potentially
a medium for bacteria soup.
And I promise tnot to make a big issure out of this.. even though I
probably should.. but this is a good reason to have LASIK... to be
free of sticking solutions into your eyes. Don't get me started on
the old pretien eating pig pancreatin tablets....
You generalise too much. LASIK isn't good for all. It wouldn't be
good for me as I am monocular. Too risky.
Ann
That's for sure. LASIK is inherently riskier than any contact lens.
DrG
That is completely false. You have no business practicing as a doctor
and putting forth such blatant false nonsense. You should be ashamed
of yourself.
I might add one thing to this. LASIK is the most performed surgery of
all time.. and the only surgery that has never had a fatality.
HOWEVER, I know of a case where an irresponsible optometrist gave a
post-lasik patient some gloom and doom scenario to scare the patient -
and the patient wound up committing suicide. That optometrist should
have been charged with manslaughter and malpractice. The name of
that optometrist slips my mind at the moment.
So are you saying that you would advise a monocular patient to undergo
LASIK? I've never come across anyone yet who would advise such a
thing whether or not they had a vested interest.
Ann
|
Where did this monocular issue come from? I never mentioned it at
all. And just to answer your question... I would advice a monocular
patient to undergo LASIK. I have never come across anyone yet who
would NOT advice such a thing.
The only exception is... why is that patient monocular? If it was due
to some eye disease.. then no.. they should not have lasik in their
other eye. Basically.. the criteria here is to determine what was the
cause of the loss of vision in the bad eye. |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
Again.. I tend to agree with everything you said. However, patients
often don't do what they should.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:38:49 -0700, Anon E. Muss
<anonymous@example.org> wrote:
| Quote: | On 3 Jul 2006 07:17:04 -0700, "Quickpure" <ABURRIS@QUICKPURE.COM
wrote:
Ragnar is correct that B&L would like people to believe that the
problems with their lens cleaning solutions is only the fault of poor
patient hygiene.
I am convinced that the association of fusarium keratitis with BL
MoisturLOC's solution is related to patients not following proper lens
hygiene -- that is doing things like not changing the solution in the
case daily, not rinsing out the contact lens case with hot water and
letting it air dry, not closing the bottle lid properly, not washing
their hands, etc.
IOW, if patients did proper lens hygiene I believe this "fusarium
outbreak" would not have occured.
Basically, B&L with MoisturLOC was a lot less forgiving when patients
didn't do what they were supposed to do.
However the contact lens industry has long been well aware that
patient compliance with manufacturers regimens is poor
Whose fault is that? The lazy patient's.
The manufacturers have long realized this and have attempted to reduce
the number of steps and make things simpler in order to increase
compliance.
And even with care systems as simple as the one-step multipurpose
solution care systems are now, many patients are non-compliant due to
laziness and do not taking their doctors seriously when they tell them
of the risks of poor lens hygiene/care.
and that the prescribed multipurpose lens care solutions have failed
to prevent approximately 25,000 annual cases of microbial keratitis
plus hundreds of thousands of cases of CLARE.
The vast majority of these cases of bacterial keratitis and CLARE in
contact lens patients are related to *extended wear*, not the
solutions or care system.
I bet 95% of the soft contact lens wearers who are diagnosed with
bacterial keratitis in my practice have an immediate antecedent
history of extended wear, and of the 5% remaining, I suspect half of
them lied about not sleeping in their lenses. With CLARE, I bet it's
an even higher percentage.
There has been inadequate warning of the risks to users of contact
lenses.
Patients need to take their doctors recommendations seriously.
And FWIW, silicone hydrogel contacts haven't eliminated bacterial
keratitis in my extended wear patients either. I actually had several
cases of patients in the course of a few months that I switched from
years of successful EW in ACUVUE to Ciba Focus Night & Day develop
CLARE and/or bacterial keratitis. |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
What point are you referring to? I am not aware of any 180
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 00:46:18 GMT, "Quick"
<quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | And your point? Have you just done a complete
180 in the matter of 2 posts?
-Quick
Ragnar wrote:
As I am sure you are aware, one always present problem
with any type of treatment is that the patient will screw
it up because they are idiots. Keller is a prime
example of that. As I recall... in her latest stunt,
attempted to remove a contact lens with a plunger while
drunk, and wound up tearing off a chunk of her
epiithelium. OUCH!
Of course.. she doesn't think that was her fault in any
way.
On 3 Jul 2006 11:59:27 -0700, "doctor_my_eye@msn.com"
doctor_my_eye@msn.com> wrote:
Topping off your case was never a good idea, because you
were diluting the antibacterial effect of the solution.
The biofilm added a totally new risk because the top-off
wasn't simply diluting the solution but was effectively
rendering it worthless. When chemists invent new
solutions they often don't build in an "idiot factor"
that accounts for what goes wrong when it is used
improperly. I often use the story that TORO lawn mowers
now have a page in their instructions that remind you
not to pick up your lawnmower and use it to trim hedges.
That page exists because...you guessed it...somebody
mowed their hedge with a gas mower and sued when they
got hurt. Duh.
Quick wrote:
doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
When the silicone hydrogel lenses like Focus Night &
Day and Acuvue Advance were first invented the
solutions manufacturers had to play "catch up." The
concept behind "Moisture Lock" was a great idea...to
create a layer of film on the contact that keeps it
softer and more supple. The "perfect storm" that seems
to have enveloped the Bausch & Lomb product is that
when the patient put the "moisture lock" in his case,
a biofilm occurred on the surface of the solution.
Then, when he just "topped off" his case the next day
without emptying and rinsing, the trapped biofilm
became a medium for the fusarium to grow.
So, the patient had to be around mold (which is really
easy to do in the Southern US where most of the
infections occurred) and then they were "top-offers",
which certainly does not mean that they were filthy
disgusting people with bad breath and bad hygeine.
The "Wear & Care" program includes a video that
explains how to clean your lenses and also a little
sticker that goes on the bathroom mirror to remind you
to wash your hands before you touch your contacts.
All the solutions I've used have instructions to
discard the used solution after soaking/storage.
Moisture Lock didn't?
-Quick
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Anon E. Muss
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 08:57:10 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | So are you saying that you would advise a monocular patient to undergo
LASIK?
|
I'm not the person to whom you are posting this follow-up to, but I
will chime in.
A lot of this depends on what one considers monocular. For sake of
discussion, let's call a monocular patient one who is legally blind in
the worse eye (<20/200 best corrected visual acuity [BCVA] or <20
degrees of visual field [VF]), but this could likely apply to patients
as low as BCVA of 20/50 in the worse eye.
I can't think of even *one situation* in which I would recommend a
such a monocular patient undergo LASIK. Perhaps someone could come up
with a hypothetical example, but right now my mind is drawing a blank.
If something went bad, I couldn't defend myself or the surgeon who
performed such a surgery. I would basically have to just give my
wallet to the patient and say, "Here -- take it all." |
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Anon E. Muss
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 07:38:44 GMT, Glenn - USAEyes.org
<glenn.hageleSTOPSPAM@USAEyes.org> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 22:38:49 -0700, Anon E. Muss
anonymous@example.org> wrote:
On 3 Jul 2006 07:17:04 -0700, "Quickpure" <ABURRIS@QUICKPURE.COM
wrote:
Ragnar is correct that B&L would like people to believe that the
problems with their lens cleaning solutions is only the fault of poor
patient hygiene.
I am convinced that the association of fusarium keratitis with BL
MoisturLOC's solution is related to patients not following proper lens
hygiene -- that is doing things like not changing the solution in the
case daily, not rinsing out the contact lens case with hot water and
letting it air dry, not closing the bottle lid properly, not washing
their hands, etc.
It seems reasonable that hygiene has contributed to the problem. This
would explain why soft contact lens wearers who did not use B&L's ReNu
with MoistureLoc have developed problems, but I don't think hygiene
alone is going to get B&L off the hook. It would appear (just by
observation and logic, not by proven study) that there is something
about ReNu with MoistureLoc that exacerbated the situation. That would
explain why a majority of the soft contact lens wearers who did
develop problems were using ReNu with MoistureLoc.
|
Read the following journal article:
<http://tinyurl.com/zgek5>
B&L's conclusions are clearly spelled out in there. |
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Anon E. Muss
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
|
|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:22:03 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Again.. I tend to agree with everything you said. However, patients
often don't do what they should.
|
Which is why B&L pulled the product off the market rather than saying
"It's not our fault -- our conclusions state it's the patients who
were non-compliant with the products instructions."
Make no mistake: B&L has paid a heavy price for this.
Somewhere (if I am not mistaken) in the range of $60M loss due to the
recall and Alcon has now overtaken B&L in the contact lens solutions
market for the first time.
I would be not so understanding if this was related to gross
negligence, incompetance or financial reasons (e.g., we spent a lot on
developing MoisturLOC, we realize there is a small risk of fusarium
keratitis with non compliant patients, but let's release it anyways).
As I wrote, I am convinced, unless/until proven otherwise, that B&L
followed all the proper steps *at the time* that they should have to
proven MoisturLOC was safe.
But woe to the company that doesn't test any present or future
products against the conditions that caused this to occur with
MoisturLOC. |
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JPG
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 569
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
|
|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:19:28 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 08:57:10 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:15:44 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
On 2 Jul 2006 17:08:33 -0700, "Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote:
Ann wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:19:07 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
I tend to agree with you.... there are many issues involved in
solutions... preservatives vs non-preserved... for instance...
distilled water is not chlorinated.. so distilled water is potentially
a medium for bacteria soup.
And I promise tnot to make a big issure out of this.. even though I
probably should.. but this is a good reason to have LASIK... to be
free of sticking solutions into your eyes. Don't get me started on
the old pretien eating pig pancreatin tablets....
You generalise too much. LASIK isn't good for all. It wouldn't be
good for me as I am monocular. Too risky.
Ann
That's for sure. LASIK is inherently riskier than any contact lens.
DrG
That is completely false. You have no business practicing as a doctor
and putting forth such blatant false nonsense. You should be ashamed
of yourself.
I might add one thing to this. LASIK is the most performed surgery of
all time.. and the only surgery that has never had a fatality.
HOWEVER, I know of a case where an irresponsible optometrist gave a
post-lasik patient some gloom and doom scenario to scare the patient -
and the patient wound up committing suicide. That optometrist should
have been charged with manslaughter and malpractice. The name of
that optometrist slips my mind at the moment.
So are you saying that you would advise a monocular patient to undergo
LASIK? I've never come across anyone yet who would advise such a
thing whether or not they had a vested interest.
Ann
Where did this monocular issue come from?
|
You obviously didn't bother reading my response to your post of some
time ago. That's okay, it's not obligatory to read all posts but when
you miss them you can't act surprised.
I never mentioned it at
| Quote: | all. And just to answer your question... I would advice a monocular
patient to undergo LASIK. I have never come across anyone yet who
would NOT advice such a thing.
|
'advise' the word is. Advice doesn't fit.
| Quote: | The only exception is... why is that patient monocular? If it was due
to some eye disease.. then no.. they should not have lasik in their
other eye. Basically.. the criteria here is to determine what was the
cause of the loss of vision in the bad eye.
|
That doesn't make sense. You aren't explaining yourself very well.
Ann |
|
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|
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
|
|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:35:30 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Ann
Where did this monocular issue come from?
You obviously didn't bother reading my response to your post of some
time ago. That's okay, it's not obligatory to read all posts but when
you miss them you can't act surprised.
I never mentioned it at
all. And just to answer your question... I would advice a monocular
patient to undergo LASIK. I have never come across anyone yet who
would NOT advice such a thing.
'advise' the word is. Advice doesn't fit.
The only exception is... why is that patient monocular? If it was due
to some eye disease.. then no.. they should not have lasik in their
other eye. Basically.. the criteria here is to determine what was the
cause of the loss of vision in the bad eye.
That doesn't make sense. You aren't explaining yourself very well.
Ann
|
My screen resolution is set at 2048 x 1536 and the text is extremely
small... yes.. advise is the correct spelling.
If it doesn't make sense to you, it never will. I will try again
though.
As long as the condition that led to the loss of vision in one eye is
not related to the good eye.. then there is no reason at all not to
have lasik on the good eye.
I think you confused monovision with monocular vision. |
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JPG
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 569
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:49 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:38:15 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:35:30 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
Ann
Where did this monocular issue come from?
You obviously didn't bother reading my response to your post of some
time ago. That's okay, it's not obligatory to read all posts but when
you miss them you can't act surprised.
I never mentioned it at
all. And just to answer your question... I would advice a monocular
patient to undergo LASIK. I have never come across anyone yet who
would NOT advice such a thing.
'advise' the word is. Advice doesn't fit.
The only exception is... why is that patient monocular? If it was due
to some eye disease.. then no.. they should not have lasik in their
other eye. Basically.. the criteria here is to determine what was the
cause of the loss of vision in the bad eye.
That doesn't make sense. You aren't explaining yourself very well.
Ann
My screen resolution is set at 2048 x 1536 and the text is extremely
small... yes.. advise is the correct spelling.
If it doesn't make sense to you, it never will. I will try again
though.
As long as the condition that led to the loss of vision in one eye is
not related to the good eye.. then there is no reason at all not to
have lasik on the good eye.
I think you confused monovision with monocular vision.
|
No, not at all. Having one eye is a contraindication for having
LASIK. You are the only person I have ever come across to say
otherwise. Most even advise against wearing a contact lens never mind
messing about permanently with the eye. I don't think I would
recommend your services to anyone.
Ann |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:38 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
|
|
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 07:49:47 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:38:15 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:35:30 +0100, Ann <me@privacy.net> wrote:
Ann
Where did this monocular issue come from?
You obviously didn't bother reading my response to your post of some
time ago. That's okay, it's not obligatory to read all posts but when
you miss them you can't act surprised.
I never mentioned it at
all. And just to answer your question... I would advice a monocular
patient to undergo LASIK. I have never come across anyone yet who
would NOT advice such a thing.
'advise' the word is. Advice doesn't fit.
The only exception is... why is that patient monocular? If it was due
to some eye disease.. then no.. they should not have lasik in their
other eye. Basically.. the criteria here is to determine what was the
cause of the loss of vision in the bad eye.
That doesn't make sense. You aren't explaining yourself very well.
Ann
My screen resolution is set at 2048 x 1536 and the text is extremely
small... yes.. advise is the correct spelling.
If it doesn't make sense to you, it never will. I will try again
though.
As long as the condition that led to the loss of vision in one eye is
not related to the good eye.. then there is no reason at all not to
have lasik on the good eye.
I think you confused monovision with monocular vision.
No, not at all. Having one eye is a contraindication for having
LASIK. You are the only person I have ever come across to say
otherwise. Most even advise against wearing a contact lens never mind
messing about permanently with the eye. I don't think I would
recommend your services to anyone.
Ann
|
That's great Ann.. or should I say... Sandy. You didn't fool me.
You are out of your mind. |
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Dr. Leukoma
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1283
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
|
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|
Ragnar wrote:
| Quote: |
That's great Ann.. or should I say... Sandy. You didn't fool me.
You are out of your mind.
|
You can do that all by yourself.
Ann is a sci.med.vision regular. She lives in the UK, and lost an eye
to melanoma.
She's also wicked smart, as you have discovered.
DrG |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Really?
Did her adivce every kill anyone?
Ann doesn't impress me. Neither do you.
On 6 Jul 2006 05:25:06 -0700, "DrG" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Ragnar wrote:
That's great Ann.. or should I say... Sandy. You didn't fool me.
You are out of your mind.
You can do that all by yourself.
Ann is a sci.med.vision regular. She lives in the UK, and lost an eye
to melanoma.
She's also wicked smart, as you have discovered.
DrG |
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