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Anon E. Muss
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 136
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 Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:31 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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On 2 Jul 2006 18:52:51 -0700, "serebel" <serebel@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Dr. Leukoma wrote:
LASIK is inherently riskier than any contact lens.
Sounds like a true contact salesman. "Can't have anyone cutting a
slice in my pie."
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Why do you think that his statement (vague though it is) is not based
on his true beliefs rather than on financial reasons?
As an eye doctor, I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, why do you?
Do you think all professionals care more about a buck than their
patient care? Are you naturally distrusting? Take off your tin foil
hat and quit looking for black helicopters.
Part of your problem is you apparently look at Dr. Leukoma (and
perhaps all eye doctors) as someone pushing a product rather than
providing a service. You need to change your thinking: EYE DOCTOR
rather than GLASSES SALESMAN.
Refractive surgery has a lot of higher incidence of certain risks than
do contact lenses. And refractive surgery is generally not
reversible.
You can get halos, glare, aggravated dry eyes, DLK, corneal ectasia,
flap complications, etc. with the various refractive surgery options.
You can get bacterial keratitis, GPC, etc. with contact lenses.
People who are extremely picky about there vision can many times
easily get their prescription fine-tuned by changing contact lens
power by +/-0.25D steps to get the exact power they want. You don't
get that with refractive surgery. And once again, don't underestimate
the reversibility of contact lenses and glasses, especially for the
low myope (<-3.00D) who is near presbyopia.
With refractive surgery, although the goal is perfection, you need to
be content with very good.
Simply put: Both refractive surgery, contact lenses and glasses have
risks. For some people people, I think refractive surgery is best.
Likewise, some people do best with contacts. Others still, with
glasses.
One of the most important things is to make sure as a potential
patient you are thoroughly educated about the pros/cons of all your
vision correction options and then make a informed decision based on
the health of your eyes and your personal comfort zone. |
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serebel
medicine forum addict
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:43 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Anon E. Muss wrote:
| Quote: |
As an eye doctor, I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, why do you?
Do you think all professionals care more about a buck than their
patient care? Are you naturally distrusting? Take off your tin foil
hat and quit looking for black helicopters.
Part of your problem is you apparently look at Dr. Leukoma (and
perhaps all eye doctors) as someone pushing a product rather than
providing a service. You need to change your thinking: EYE DOCTOR
rather than GLASSES SALESMAN.
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If you think that Leukoma (example only in this case) does not have
a financial incentive then maybe you should buy a tin foil hat.
Thanks, but I'll decide how to think, I don't need you to do it for me. |
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Dr. Leukoma
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1283
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:17 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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serebel wrote:
| Quote: | Neil Brooks wrote:
Watched you for quite some time. I'd say your "agenda" is far more at
play here than that of Dr. G.
But then, that's must my impression .... based in part on decades of
research and review of peer-reviewed studies.
My agenda is only to counter the anti- RS loony fringe. And since my
SE days of long ago I've noticed that Leukoma's agenda is to stroke his
own ego and play the part of a super hero. Anyone can fit a lens or say
which is better, 1 or 2 ?
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Ace, of course, could perform PRK.
DrG |
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serebel
medicine forum addict
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:24 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Dr. Leukoma wrote:
| Quote: |
Ace, of course, could perform PRK.
DrG
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God forbid !!!!!!!!!!! All right, ya got me there. I left the
gate wide open for that one. |
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Anon E. Muss
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:01 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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On 2 Jul 2006 19:43:37 -0700, "serebel" <serebel@aol.com> wrote:
[snip]
| Quote: | If you think that Leukoma (example only in this case) does not have
a financial incentive then maybe you should buy a tin foil hat.
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Everyone (except maybe Mother Teresa) has financial reasons; it's when
it takes priority over good patient care when it becomes a problem.
I will take great patient care and filthy rich over great patient care
and dirt poor any day of the week.
| Quote: | Thanks, but I'll decide how to think
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Hey, it's a free country brother. You are feel to think however you
want to.
| Quote: | I don't need you to do it for me.
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Yes you do. |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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On 2 Jul 2006 17:08:33 -0700, "Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Ann wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 20:19:07 GMT, Ragnar <ragnarsuomi@yahoo.com
wrote:
I tend to agree with you.... there are many issues involved in
solutions... preservatives vs non-preserved... for instance...
distilled water is not chlorinated.. so distilled water is potentially
a medium for bacteria soup.
And I promise tnot to make a big issure out of this.. even though I
probably should.. but this is a good reason to have LASIK... to be
free of sticking solutions into your eyes. Don't get me started on
the old pretien eating pig pancreatin tablets....
You generalise too much. LASIK isn't good for all. It wouldn't be
good for me as I am monocular. Too risky.
Ann
That's for sure. LASIK is inherently riskier than any contact lens.
DrG
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That is completely false. You have no business practicing as a doctor
and putting forth such blatant false nonsense. You should be ashamed
of yourself.
I might add one thing to this. LASIK is the most performed surgery of
all time.. and the only surgery that has never had a fatality.
HOWEVER, I know of a case where an irresponsible optometrist gave a
post-lasik patient some gloom and doom scenario to scare the patient -
and the patient wound up committing suicide. That optometrist should
have been charged with manslaughter and malpractice. The name of
that optometrist slips my mind at the moment. |
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Quick
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:02 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Ragnar wrote:
| Quote: |
That is completely false. You have no business
practicing as a doctor and putting forth such blatant
false nonsense. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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What's the name of that game... DOOM? Where there
has been a leak at the nuclear plant and these mutants
keep coming at you, each one mutated in a different way?
| Quote: | I might add one thing to this. LASIK is the most
performed surgery of all time.. and the only surgery that
has never had a fatality.
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I thought that was lancing boils. "lancing", not "lasik".
-Quick |
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Quickpure
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Ragnar wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for that post!
I have just one comment about it. B&L would like people to believe
that the problems with their eyedrops were actually the fault of poor
patient hygiene. A dozen contact lens cases is a bit silly. It pains
me to see a myopic patient wearing glasses. They should be wearing
contact lenses - rigid if they can tolerate them - and consider LASIK
when they can pay for it. Actually.. anybody can pay for it. When
the numbers are crunched, it takes at most 12 years of contact lens or
glasses to equal the cost of LASIK. Also, Lasik is tax deductable -
as are glasses and contacts - but people are not likely to go to the
trouble of deducting their contacts or glasses.. but are likely to
deduct that big lasik payment. The operation is easily financed.
I would like everyone to be wearing rigid contacts if possible. They
are very low maintenance, and provide the best possible vision. It's
unfortunate that so few people are willing to put up with a little
discomfort.
On 1 Jul 2006 08:42:49 -0700, "doctor_my_eye@msn.com"
doctor_my_eye@msn.com> wrote:
When the "fusarium scare" occurred and Bausch and Lomb "Renu with
Moisture Lock" was pulled off the market, B&L was put in a similar
place that the makers of Tylenol were after the great poisoning scare
years back. To build patient compliance and advocate good contact lens
hygiene B&L has created a FREE "Wear & Care" consumer program. When
you go on their website at www.bausch.com and hit the "Wear and Care"
button, you can sign up for a FREE care package that includes 12 free
contact lens cases to encourage monthly case disposal. YOU DON"T HAVE
TO WEAR B&L LENSES to get the free cases. My rep says they have had
80,000 sign up so far, and the more the merrier. So, I encourage
everyone here who wears soft contacts or fits soft contacts to send
everyone to this program.
When cases are clean and hands are clean there are fewer infections and
we all win, not just B&L. |
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Quickpure
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Ragnar wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for that post!
I have just one comment about it. B&L would like people to believe
that the problems with their eyedrops were actually the fault of poor
patient hygiene. A dozen contact lens cases is a bit silly.
|
Ragnar is correct that B&L would like people to believe that the
problems with their lens cleaning solutions is only the fault of poor
patient hygiene. However the contact lens industry has long been well
aware that patient compliance with manufacturers regimens is poor and
thatthe prescribed multipurpose lens care solutions have failed to
prevent approximately 25,000 annual cases of microbial keratitis plus
hundreds of thousands of cases of CLARE.There has been inadequate
warning of the risks to users of contact lenses. |
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doctor_my_eye@msn.com
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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When the silicone hydrogel lenses like Focus Night & Day and Acuvue
Advance were first invented the solutions manufacturers had to play
"catch up." The concept behind "Moisture Lock" was a great idea...to
create a layer of film on the contact that keeps it softer and more
supple. The "perfect storm" that seems to have enveloped the Bausch &
Lomb product is that when the patient put the "moisture lock" in his
case, a biofilm occurred on the surface of the solution. Then, when he
just "topped off" his case the next day without emptying and rinsing,
the trapped biofilm became a medium for the fusarium to grow.
So, the patient had to be around mold (which is really easy to do in
the Southern US where most of the infections occurred) and then they
were "top-offers", which certainly does not mean that they were filthy
disgusting people with bad breath and bad hygeine.
The "Wear & Care" program includes a video that explains how to clean
your lenses and also a little sticker that goes on the bathroom mirror
to remind you to wash your hands before you touch your contacts.
These issues usually do not affect RGPs because microbes hate to live
on gas permeables. One of the features of a rigid lens that makes it
"gas permeable" is that it has to have an ability to grab oxygen and
literally throw it through the lens to the cornea.
A tiny little electrical charge that amounts to just hundredths of a
millivolt is produced by this exchange of oxygen, and microbes hate
electricity and run away from RGPs. They are innately a lot "smarter"
than we ever give them credit for.
serebel wrote:
| Quote: | doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
When the "fusarium scare" occurred and Bausch and Lomb "Renu with
Moisture Lock" was pulled off the market, B&L was put in a similar
place that the makers of Tylenol were after the great poisoning scare
years back. To build patient compliance and advocate good contact lens
hygiene B&L has created a FREE "Wear & Care" consumer program. When
you go on their website at www.bausch.com and hit the "Wear and Care"
button, you can sign up for a FREE care package that includes 12 free
contact lens cases to encourage monthly case disposal. YOU DON"T HAVE
TO WEAR B&L LENSES to get the free cases. My rep says they have had
80,000 sign up so far, and the more the merrier. So, I encourage
everyone here who wears soft contacts or fits soft contacts to send
everyone to this program.
When cases are clean and hands are clean there are fewer infections and
we all win, not just B&L.
Just wondering here, but are RGP wearers affected by this also? |
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Quick
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
| Quote: | When the silicone hydrogel lenses like Focus Night & Day
and Acuvue Advance were first invented the solutions
manufacturers had to play "catch up." The concept behind
"Moisture Lock" was a great idea...to create a layer of
film on the contact that keeps it softer and more supple.
The "perfect storm" that seems to have enveloped the
Bausch & Lomb product is that when the patient put the
"moisture lock" in his case, a biofilm occurred on the
surface of the solution. Then, when he just "topped off"
his case the next day without emptying and rinsing, the
trapped biofilm became a medium for the fusarium to grow.
So, the patient had to be around mold (which is really
easy to do in the Southern US where most of the
infections occurred) and then they were "top-offers",
which certainly does not mean that they were filthy
disgusting people with bad breath and bad hygeine.
The "Wear & Care" program includes a video that explains
how to clean your lenses and also a little sticker that
goes on the bathroom mirror to remind you to wash your
hands before you touch your contacts.
|
All the solutions I've used have instructions to discard the
used solution after soaking/storage. Moisture Lock didn't?
-Quick |
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doctor_my_eye@msn.com
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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Topping off your case was never a good idea, because you were diluting
the antibacterial effect of the solution. The biofilm added a totally
new risk because the top-off wasn't simply diluting the solution but
was effectively rendering it worthless. When chemists invent new
solutions they often don't build in an "idiot factor" that accounts for
what goes wrong when it is used improperly. I often use the story that
TORO lawn mowers now have a page in their instructions that remind you
not to pick up your lawnmower and use it to trim hedges. That page
exists because...you guessed it...somebody mowed their hedge with a gas
mower and sued when they got hurt. Duh.
Quick wrote:
| Quote: | doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
When the silicone hydrogel lenses like Focus Night & Day
and Acuvue Advance were first invented the solutions
manufacturers had to play "catch up." The concept behind
"Moisture Lock" was a great idea...to create a layer of
film on the contact that keeps it softer and more supple.
The "perfect storm" that seems to have enveloped the
Bausch & Lomb product is that when the patient put the
"moisture lock" in his case, a biofilm occurred on the
surface of the solution. Then, when he just "topped off"
his case the next day without emptying and rinsing, the
trapped biofilm became a medium for the fusarium to grow.
So, the patient had to be around mold (which is really
easy to do in the Southern US where most of the
infections occurred) and then they were "top-offers",
which certainly does not mean that they were filthy
disgusting people with bad breath and bad hygeine.
The "Wear & Care" program includes a video that explains
how to clean your lenses and also a little sticker that
goes on the bathroom mirror to remind you to wash your
hands before you touch your contacts.
All the solutions I've used have instructions to discard the
used solution after soaking/storage. Moisture Lock didn't?
-Quick |
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Dick Adams
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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<doctor_my_eye@msn.com> wrote in message news:1151953167.443166.239060@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | TORO lawn mowers now have a page in their instructions that remind you
not to pick up your lawnmower and use it to trim hedges.
|
Certainly not without wearing safety glasses! Contacts are relatively useless
for eye safety.
--
Dicky |
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Ragnar
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:12 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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As I am sure you are aware, one always present problem with any type
of treatment is that the patient will screw it up because they are
idiots. Keller is a prime example of that. As I recall... in her
latest stunt, attempted to remove a contact lens with a plunger while
drunk, and wound up tearing off a chunk of her epiithelium. OUCH!
Of course.. she doesn't think that was her fault in any way.
On 3 Jul 2006 11:59:27 -0700, "doctor_my_eye@msn.com"
<doctor_my_eye@msn.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Topping off your case was never a good idea, because you were diluting
the antibacterial effect of the solution. The biofilm added a totally
new risk because the top-off wasn't simply diluting the solution but
was effectively rendering it worthless. When chemists invent new
solutions they often don't build in an "idiot factor" that accounts for
what goes wrong when it is used improperly. I often use the story that
TORO lawn mowers now have a page in their instructions that remind you
not to pick up your lawnmower and use it to trim hedges. That page
exists because...you guessed it...somebody mowed their hedge with a gas
mower and sued when they got hurt. Duh.
Quick wrote:
doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
When the silicone hydrogel lenses like Focus Night & Day
and Acuvue Advance were first invented the solutions
manufacturers had to play "catch up." The concept behind
"Moisture Lock" was a great idea...to create a layer of
film on the contact that keeps it softer and more supple.
The "perfect storm" that seems to have enveloped the
Bausch & Lomb product is that when the patient put the
"moisture lock" in his case, a biofilm occurred on the
surface of the solution. Then, when he just "topped off"
his case the next day without emptying and rinsing, the
trapped biofilm became a medium for the fusarium to grow.
So, the patient had to be around mold (which is really
easy to do in the Southern US where most of the
infections occurred) and then they were "top-offers",
which certainly does not mean that they were filthy
disgusting people with bad breath and bad hygeine.
The "Wear & Care" program includes a video that explains
how to clean your lenses and also a little sticker that
goes on the bathroom mirror to remind you to wash your
hands before you touch your contacts.
All the solutions I've used have instructions to discard the
used solution after soaking/storage. Moisture Lock didn't?
-Quick |
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Quick
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:46 am Post subject:
Re: Great safety program for soft contact lens wearers
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And your point? Have you just done a complete
180 in the matter of 2 posts?
-Quick
Ragnar wrote:
| Quote: | As I am sure you are aware, one always present problem
with any type of treatment is that the patient will screw
it up because they are idiots. Keller is a prime
example of that. As I recall... in her latest stunt,
attempted to remove a contact lens with a plunger while
drunk, and wound up tearing off a chunk of her
epiithelium. OUCH!
Of course.. she doesn't think that was her fault in any
way.
On 3 Jul 2006 11:59:27 -0700, "doctor_my_eye@msn.com"
doctor_my_eye@msn.com> wrote:
Topping off your case was never a good idea, because you
were diluting the antibacterial effect of the solution.
The biofilm added a totally new risk because the top-off
wasn't simply diluting the solution but was effectively
rendering it worthless. When chemists invent new
solutions they often don't build in an "idiot factor"
that accounts for what goes wrong when it is used
improperly. I often use the story that TORO lawn mowers
now have a page in their instructions that remind you
not to pick up your lawnmower and use it to trim hedges.
That page exists because...you guessed it...somebody
mowed their hedge with a gas mower and sued when they
got hurt. Duh.
Quick wrote:
doctor_my_eye@msn.com wrote:
When the silicone hydrogel lenses like Focus Night &
Day and Acuvue Advance were first invented the
solutions manufacturers had to play "catch up." The
concept behind "Moisture Lock" was a great idea...to
create a layer of film on the contact that keeps it
softer and more supple. The "perfect storm" that seems
to have enveloped the Bausch & Lomb product is that
when the patient put the "moisture lock" in his case,
a biofilm occurred on the surface of the solution.
Then, when he just "topped off" his case the next day
without emptying and rinsing, the trapped biofilm
became a medium for the fusarium to grow.
So, the patient had to be around mold (which is really
easy to do in the Southern US where most of the
infections occurred) and then they were "top-offers",
which certainly does not mean that they were filthy
disgusting people with bad breath and bad hygeine.
The "Wear & Care" program includes a video that
explains how to clean your lenses and also a little
sticker that goes on the bathroom mirror to remind you
to wash your hands before you touch your contacts.
All the solutions I've used have instructions to
discard the used solution after soaking/storage.
Moisture Lock didn't?
-Quick |
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