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| Author |
Message |
acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732
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 Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:05 am Post subject:
Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
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By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of
cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the treshold to
always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT doctors, we both
have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a
plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach you about
the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive refractive state. Otis
realizes the importance of preventing myopia at the threshold and
keeping your distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has saved
dozens of children from stair-case myopia including his own nephew and
neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be
praised for his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3 diopter minus lens
will cause stair-case myopia in chickens and monkies and any other
animals. Lots of near work starts the first signs of myopia and
something needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use the
wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year after year. |
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:11 am Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
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On 30 Jun 2006 22:05:17 -0700, acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of
cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the treshold to
always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT doctors, we both
have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a
plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach you about
the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive refractive state. Otis
realizes the importance of preventing myopia at the threshold and
keeping your distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has saved
dozens of children from stair-case myopia including his own nephew and
neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be
praised for his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3 diopter minus lens
will cause stair-case myopia in chickens and monkies and any other
animals. Lots of near work starts the first signs of myopia and
something needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use the
wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year after year.
|
Why don't YOU take a shot at answering these, Ace:
1. There seems to be a great deal of evidence that primates have
widely differing visual systems. How is it that you feel so secure in
saying that "all primate eyes" behave similarly … in ANY regard?
2. In these monkey studies that you reference, isn't it true that
the SAME STUDIES showed that, with even BRIEF periods away from the
minus lens, the myopia was prevented?
3. If there was no medical indication that these monkeys needed
corrective lenses at all, can you be sure that appropriate CORRECTION
of somebody's REFRACTIVE ERROR will have similar results? If so, how?
4. You continually claim that a minus lens causes something that
you call "stair-case myopia." Presuming that you mean that it does
this in humans, do you have any valid clinical evidence for this
claim?
5. You have repeatedly claimed that the Oakley-Young study is
"proof" of this "stair-case myopia" phenomenon, but Oakley-Young only
establishes that-in some people-myopia can get worse over time. It
doesn't even CLAIM that a minus lens CAUSES this. Please explain your
position.
6. Also-at least in part, based on the Oakley-Young study-you
recommend that people use plus lenses to prevent myopia. Are you
aware that the only people in the Oakley-Young study for whom plus
lenses made ANY difference were those with diagnosed "near-point
esophoria?" This is a convergence disorder. Do you have ANY EVIDENCE
that the same result is likely with people who DO NOT HAVE this
convergence disorder?
7. You claim to have known Donald Rehm, the founder of the
International Myopia Prevention Association, for some decades. I
presume that you are familiar with his FDA petition. In it, Mr. Rehm
states:
| Quote: | " if we converge without accommodating the appropriate amount,
or if we accommodate without converging the appropriate amount,
problems can develop for this small percentage of children such as eye
fatigue, double vision, or other types of fusion problems. That is,
the two images can no longer be fused together without discomfort.
Normal binocular vision is interfered with." |
Is there a valid reason why you have not attempted to make people
aware of these SERIOUS risks of unprescribed plus lenses?
8. You continually cite Fred Deakins as a (questionable) success
story. Do you think it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Deakins
is--in truth--myopic, that he is trying to sell a $40.00 product, and
that his "testimonial" is used as an inducement to buy this product?
9. Do you have any economic interest in the product sold by Mr.
Deakins?
10. You claimed that you were not selling a book--until, that is,
I provided links to websites where it WAS being sold for $24.95 (with
your home address as the "send check to" address). You then claimed
that the entire book was available for free on the internet--until,
that its--I pointed out that only approximately four of 14+ chapters
were on the internet. Would you please clarify whether or not you have
ever received money for a copy of your book, "How to avoid
nearsightedness: A scientific study of the normal eye's behavior?" If
so, please state how many copies you have sold, and when the last copy
was sold. If not, please state how long it has been since you
received any money for this book.
11. Do you believe that it is dishonest NOT to mention that you
have a commercial interest in inducing people to visit your website?
12. Presuming that you understand the difference between
accommodative spasm (pseudomyopia) and axial-length myopia, would you
please provide credible proof that either a) pseudomyopia CAUSES
axial-length myopia, or that b) relieving pseudomyopia REDUCES
axial-length myopia
13. You CONSTANTLY make reference to "Second Opinion"
optometrists--presumably meaning those who share your views. Other
than the now-infamous Steve Leung, are there ANY OTHER such "second
opinion optometrists" in the ENTIRE WORLD? Does any of these people
have any evidence to support the claims that you make? Would you
please provide it?
14. Mr. Steve Leung is also trying to sell a book. Do you have
any economic interest in the book sold by Steve Leung? Do you think
it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Leung is--in truth--myopic, that
he is trying to sell a book, and that the "testimonials" on his
website, and your repeated referrals TO his website are used as
inducements to sell both your and his book?
15. Do you feel that it is HONEST NOT TO admit that--even though
your niece, Joy, NEVER WORE MINUS LENSES, and DID USE PLUS LENSES, she
is, at this time, a myope?
16. I have posted, many times, links to the actual summaries of
the myopia progression studies that you lie about
CLICK ME!
. Why do you tell people that they WILL SHIFT MYOPIC BY
1.3 DIOPTERS during the four years of college when the studies DO NOT
SAY THAT AT ALL? Please explain your position and provide citations
to the appropriate studies. |
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:23 am Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
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Neil Brooks wrote:
| Quote: | On 30 Jun 2006 22:05:17 -0700, acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of
cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the treshold to
always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT doctors, we both
have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a
plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach you about
the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive refractive state. Otis
realizes the importance of preventing myopia at the threshold and
keeping your distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has saved
dozens of children from stair-case myopia including his own nephew and
neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be
praised for his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3 diopter minus lens
will cause stair-case myopia in chickens and monkies and any other
animals. Lots of near work starts the first signs of myopia and
something needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use the
wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year after year.
Why don't YOU take a shot at answering these, Ace:
1. There seems to be a great deal of evidence that primates have
widely differing visual systems. How is it that you feel so secure in
saying that "all primate eyes" behave similarly ... in ANY regard?
2. In these monkey studies that you reference, isn't it true that
the SAME STUDIES showed that, with even BRIEF periods away from the
minus lens, the myopia was prevented?
3. If there was no medical indication that these monkeys needed
corrective lenses at all, can you be sure that appropriate CORRECTION
of somebody's REFRACTIVE ERROR will have similar results? If so, how?
4. You continually claim that a minus lens causes something that
you call "stair-case myopia." Presuming that you mean that it does
this in humans, do you have any valid clinical evidence for this
claim?
5. You have repeatedly claimed that the Oakley-Young study is
"proof" of this "stair-case myopia" phenomenon, but Oakley-Young only
establishes that-in some people-myopia can get worse over time. It
doesn't even CLAIM that a minus lens CAUSES this. Please explain your
position.
6. Also-at least in part, based on the Oakley-Young study-you
recommend that people use plus lenses to prevent myopia. Are you
aware that the only people in the Oakley-Young study for whom plus
lenses made ANY difference were those with diagnosed "near-point
esophoria?" This is a convergence disorder. Do you have ANY EVIDENCE
that the same result is likely with people who DO NOT HAVE this
convergence disorder?
7. You claim to have known Donald Rehm, the founder of the
International Myopia Prevention Association, for some decades. I
presume that you are familiar with his FDA petition. In it, Mr. Rehm
states:
| Quote: | " if we converge without accommodating the appropriate amount,
or if we accommodate without converging the appropriate amount,
problems can develop for this small percentage of children such as eye
fatigue, double vision, or other types of fusion problems. That is,
the two images can no longer be fused together without discomfort.
Normal binocular vision is interfered with." |
Is there a valid reason why you have not attempted to make people
aware of these SERIOUS risks of unprescribed plus lenses?
8. You continually cite Fred Deakins as a (questionable) success
story. Do you think it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Deakins
is--in truth--myopic, that he is trying to sell a $40.00 product, and
that his "testimonial" is used as an inducement to buy this product?
9. Do you have any economic interest in the product sold by Mr.
Deakins?
10. You claimed that you were not selling a book--until, that is,
I provided links to websites where it WAS being sold for $24.95 (with
your home address as the "send check to" address). You then claimed
that the entire book was available for free on the internet--until,
that its--I pointed out that only approximately four of 14+ chapters
were on the internet. Would you please clarify whether or not you have
ever received money for a copy of your book, "How to avoid
nearsightedness: A scientific study of the normal eye's behavior?" If
so, please state how many copies you have sold, and when the last copy
was sold. If not, please state how long it has been since you
received any money for this book.
11. Do you believe that it is dishonest NOT to mention that you
have a commercial interest in inducing people to visit your website?
12. Presuming that you understand the difference between
accommodative spasm (pseudomyopia) and axial-length myopia, would you
please provide credible proof that either a) pseudomyopia CAUSES
axial-length myopia, or that b) relieving pseudomyopia REDUCES
axial-length myopia
13. You CONSTANTLY make reference to "Second Opinion"
optometrists--presumably meaning those who share your views. Other
than the now-infamous Steve Leung, are there ANY OTHER such "second
opinion optometrists" in the ENTIRE WORLD? Does any of these people
have any evidence to support the claims that you make? Would you
please provide it?
14. Mr. Steve Leung is also trying to sell a book. Do you have
any economic interest in the book sold by Steve Leung? Do you think
it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Leung is--in truth--myopic, that
he is trying to sell a book, and that the "testimonials" on his
website, and your repeated referrals TO his website are used as
inducements to sell both your and his book?
15. Do you feel that it is HONEST NOT TO admit that--even though
your niece, Joy, NEVER WORE MINUS LENSES, and DID USE PLUS LENSES, she
is, at this time, a myope?
16. I have posted, many times, links to the actual summaries of
the myopia progression studies that you lie about
CLICK ME!
. Why do you tell people that they WILL SHIFT MYOPIC BY
1.3 DIOPTERS during the four years of college when the studies DO NOT
SAY THAT AT ALL? Please explain your position and provide citations
to the appropriate studies.
|
1. The eye is dynamic.
2. Thats why the minus lens should be avoided!
3. Myopia is not a disease, correction is not medically neccessary
4. www.chinamyopia.org
5. Ill let Otis elaborate this
6. Ill let Otis elaborate this
7. Use prisms
8. I bet he is alot less myopic than those stair-case victims.
9. Otis isnt in it for the money
10. Otis already explained this
11. No one has to buy anything
12. Myopia starts out pseudo but the eyeball enlongates and stair-case
begins
13. Otis may know dozens of such optometrists
14. I bet he is alot less myopic than those stair-case victims.
15. She passes the DMV and is not required to wear glasses.
16. near work causes myopia.
Happy now? You got all the answers  |
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CatmanX
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 367
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:59 am Post subject:
Cletis is stupid and Nancy is even stupider
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| Quote: | 1. The eye is dynamic.
|
So, what does this prove?
| Quote: | 2. Thats why the minus lens should be avoided!
|
Why, so people walk around in a blurry world? Research shows this makes
you more myopic.
| Quote: | 3. Myopia is not a disease, correction is not medically neccessary
|
Not unless you want to see the car coming towards you.
Where is the proof. Every optom in HK knows Steven Leung is an idiot.
He has no credibility anywhere and has never published any paper
proving anything about muopia.
| Quote: | 5. Ill let Otis elaborate this
|
Neither you nor Cletis can as you both know nothing.
| Quote: | 6. Ill let Otis elaborate this
|
Ditto
How much? What about prism adaptation? What about seeing the blackboard
in class?
| Quote: | 8. I bet he is alot less myopic than those stair-case victims.
|
How do you know? Where is the double blind trial?
| Quote: | 9. Otis isnt in it for the money
|
He is in it for the girls then?
| Quote: | 10. Otis already explained this
|
Cletis has explained nothing.
| Quote: | 11. No one has to buy anything
|
No, just listen to crap.
| Quote: | 12. Myopia starts out pseudo but the eyeball enlongates and stair-case
begins
|
Myopia starts out as the person is genetically going to get it.
Environment acts upon the genetic substrate. Why don't you advocate
gene therapy?
| Quote: | 13. Otis may know dozens of such optometrists
|
No he doesn't. That's why he keeps bringing up the same names all the
time. Donald Rehm, Francis Young and Steven Leung. He has no one else
to name drop.
| Quote: | 14. I bet he is alot less myopic than those stair-case victims.
|
How do you know? Where's the double blind trial to prove it?
| Quote: | 15. She passes the DMV and is not required to wear glasses.
|
And still sees blurred images.
| Quote: | 16. near work causes myopia.
|
No near work is a stressor. It doesn't cause anything.
| Quote: |
Happy now? You got all the answers
|
You haven't answered anything yet. |
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biscuit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 296
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
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|
Why this obsession with "pass the DMV"? Most people don't want to see
20/40, despite what you repeatedly keep saying. Please understand and
absorb the fact that most people don't want to walk around seeing
20/40, or blowing off a -1.5 diopter prescription (sph or cyl) if they
can wear glasses and see clearly. When corrected, I see 20/15 or
slightly better, and I can tell when I'm not there. Doctors on this
forum have indicated that this is not unusual (being picky). Please
assimilate this information and stop acting like everyone is as
un-demanding about their vision as you claim to be.
Even if you guys had a way of getting nearsighted people to 20/40, it
doesn't do all that much except keep some people from having to find
their glasses to go to the bathroom at night.
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton
of cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the
treshold to always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT
doctors, we both have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist
who can pescribe a plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can
also teach you about the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive
refractive state. Otis realizes the importance of preventing myopia
at the threshold and keeping your distance vision clear and always
passing DMV. He has saved dozens of children from stair-case myopia
including his own nephew and neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in
the better eye) He is to be praised for his way of thinking and as an
engineer for understanding that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A
-2 or -3 diopter minus lens will cause stair-case myopia in chickens
and monkies and any other animals. Lots of near work starts the first
signs of myopia and something needs to be done at the treshold or if
you dont and use the wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse
year after year.
|
-- |
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
On 30 Jun 2006 22:23:06 -0700, acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Neil Brooks wrote:
On 30 Jun 2006 22:05:17 -0700, acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of
cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the treshold to
always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT doctors, we both
have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a
plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach you about
the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive refractive state. Otis
realizes the importance of preventing myopia at the threshold and
keeping your distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has saved
dozens of children from stair-case myopia including his own nephew and
neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be
praised for his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3 diopter minus lens
will cause stair-case myopia in chickens and monkies and any other
animals. Lots of near work starts the first signs of myopia and
something needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use the
wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year after year.
Why don't YOU take a shot at answering these, Ace:
1. There seems to be a great deal of evidence that primates have
widely differing visual systems. How is it that you feel so secure in
saying that "all primate eyes" behave similarly ... in ANY regard?
2. In these monkey studies that you reference, isn't it true that
the SAME STUDIES showed that, with even BRIEF periods away from the
minus lens, the myopia was prevented?
3. If there was no medical indication that these monkeys needed
corrective lenses at all, can you be sure that appropriate CORRECTION
of somebody's REFRACTIVE ERROR will have similar results? If so, how?
4. You continually claim that a minus lens causes something that
you call "stair-case myopia." Presuming that you mean that it does
this in humans, do you have any valid clinical evidence for this
claim?
5. You have repeatedly claimed that the Oakley-Young study is
"proof" of this "stair-case myopia" phenomenon, but Oakley-Young only
establishes that-in some people-myopia can get worse over time. It
doesn't even CLAIM that a minus lens CAUSES this. Please explain your
position.
6. Also-at least in part, based on the Oakley-Young study-you
recommend that people use plus lenses to prevent myopia. Are you
aware that the only people in the Oakley-Young study for whom plus
lenses made ANY difference were those with diagnosed "near-point
esophoria?" This is a convergence disorder. Do you have ANY EVIDENCE
that the same result is likely with people who DO NOT HAVE this
convergence disorder?
7. You claim to have known Donald Rehm, the founder of the
International Myopia Prevention Association, for some decades. I
presume that you are familiar with his FDA petition. In it, Mr. Rehm
states:
| Quote: | " if we converge without accommodating the appropriate amount,
or if we accommodate without converging the appropriate amount,
problems can develop for this small percentage of children such as eye
fatigue, double vision, or other types of fusion problems. That is,
the two images can no longer be fused together without discomfort.
Normal binocular vision is interfered with." |
Is there a valid reason why you have not attempted to make people
aware of these SERIOUS risks of unprescribed plus lenses?
8. You continually cite Fred Deakins as a (questionable) success
story. Do you think it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Deakins
is--in truth--myopic, that he is trying to sell a $40.00 product, and
that his "testimonial" is used as an inducement to buy this product?
9. Do you have any economic interest in the product sold by Mr.
Deakins?
10. You claimed that you were not selling a book--until, that is,
I provided links to websites where it WAS being sold for $24.95 (with
your home address as the "send check to" address). You then claimed
that the entire book was available for free on the internet--until,
that its--I pointed out that only approximately four of 14+ chapters
were on the internet. Would you please clarify whether or not you have
ever received money for a copy of your book, "How to avoid
nearsightedness: A scientific study of the normal eye's behavior?" If
so, please state how many copies you have sold, and when the last copy
was sold. If not, please state how long it has been since you
received any money for this book.
11. Do you believe that it is dishonest NOT to mention that you
have a commercial interest in inducing people to visit your website?
12. Presuming that you understand the difference between
accommodative spasm (pseudomyopia) and axial-length myopia, would you
please provide credible proof that either a) pseudomyopia CAUSES
axial-length myopia, or that b) relieving pseudomyopia REDUCES
axial-length myopia
13. You CONSTANTLY make reference to "Second Opinion"
optometrists--presumably meaning those who share your views. Other
than the now-infamous Steve Leung, are there ANY OTHER such "second
opinion optometrists" in the ENTIRE WORLD? Does any of these people
have any evidence to support the claims that you make? Would you
please provide it?
14. Mr. Steve Leung is also trying to sell a book. Do you have
any economic interest in the book sold by Steve Leung? Do you think
it is honest NOT to mention that Mr. Leung is--in truth--myopic, that
he is trying to sell a book, and that the "testimonials" on his
website, and your repeated referrals TO his website are used as
inducements to sell both your and his book?
15. Do you feel that it is HONEST NOT TO admit that--even though
your niece, Joy, NEVER WORE MINUS LENSES, and DID USE PLUS LENSES, she
is, at this time, a myope?
16. I have posted, many times, links to the actual summaries of
the myopia progression studies that you lie about
CLICK ME!
. Why do you tell people that they WILL SHIFT MYOPIC BY
1.3 DIOPTERS during the four years of college when the studies DO NOT
SAY THAT AT ALL? Please explain your position and provide citations
to the appropriate studies.
1. The eye is dynamic.
Didn't answer the question |
| Quote: | 2. Thats why the minus lens should be avoided!
Doesn't answer the question. Why shouldn't people where it when it's |
indicated and not where it where it's not?
| Quote: | 3. Myopia is not a disease, correction is not medically neccessary
Didn't answer the question. Please try again. |
| Quote: | 5. Ill let Otis elaborate this
6. Ill let Otis elaborate this
7. Use prisms
Wow! At least that's an answer! |
| Quote: | 8. I bet he is alot less myopic than those stair-case victims.
And I *know* I'm better looking than you. How sure are you that this |
is attributable to the breakfast cereal I ate as a child?
| Quote: | 9. Otis isnt in it for the money
Just like everything else: YOUR saying it (or HIS saying it) simply |
does NOT make it so.
| Quote: | 10. Otis already explained this
Poorly. |
| Quote: | 11. No one has to buy anything
Otis screams, all day, about the agenda of optometrists. It is |
perfectly valid to point out his: pathology + money.
| Quote: | 12. Myopia starts out pseudo but the eyeball enlongates and stair-case
begins
Didn't answer the question. Please try again. |
| Quote: | 13. Otis may know dozens of such optometrists
But their names are withheld in the interest of national security? |
Please try again.
| Quote: | 14. I bet he is alot less myopic than those stair-case victims.
And I *know* I'm better looking than you. How sure are you that this |
is attributable to the breakfast cereal I ate as a child?
| Quote: | 15. She passes the DMV and is not required to wear glasses.
She's myopic. The DMV restricted her license. Plus lens prevention |
didn't work. Or are we now using "kinda sorta worked" as the
standard?
| Quote: | 16. near work causes myopia.
Didn't answer the question. Please try again. |
| Quote: | Happy now? You got all the answers
I got one. It's only partially valid. The rest was just |
regurgitation of Otis tripe.
Try again. Everybody's watching.
You want "respect?" Try again. |
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:16:20 GMT, "Charles" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Why this obsession with "pass the DMV"? Most people don't want to see
20/40, despite what you repeatedly keep saying. Please understand and
absorb the fact that most people don't want to walk around seeing
20/40, or blowing off a -1.5 diopter prescription (sph or cyl) if they
can wear glasses and see clearly. When corrected, I see 20/15 or
slightly better, and I can tell when I'm not there. Doctors on this
forum have indicated that this is not unusual (being picky). Please
assimilate this information and stop acting like everyone is as
un-demanding about their vision as you claim to be.
Even if you guys had a way of getting nearsighted people to 20/40, it
doesn't do all that much except keep some people from having to find
their glasses to go to the bathroom at night.
|
If your *corrected* vision is as bad as Otis's is, then you have a
built-in excuse for why you haven't read ALL THE SCIENCE that
contradicts your position  |
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
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Dear AceMan,
Subject: Thanks for the vote-of-confidence -- for the SECOND-OPINION
OPTOMETRIST
It is very clear, from the study of the dynamic primate eye, that we
INDUCE
a negative refractive STATE, because we have moved our visual "world"
close to our eyes.
Our eyes should be recognized to be dyanmic SYSTEMS, and have a
WARNING stenciled on them -- excellent visual system, but this
sytem controls its refractive STATE to its average visual environment
(defined
in DIOPTERS.)
I think all parents should go through a tutorial on this subject PRIOR
to their
kids getting too deep into it.
It is a major choice or "decision" for the parent -- but well worth the
time THINKING about this issue. The choice will in fact have
life-time consequences for the child. Prevention is not easy -- and
I NEVER SAID IT WAS.
But is it a matter of intelligent choice for the INFORMED parent -- as
the second-opinion.
Remember, there are now PREVENTION-MINDED ODs who have
their kids wearing a +2 diopter lens -- because their refractive state
is ZERO -- and they know that by the next exam -- the
kids refractive STATE will be negative.
www.chinamyopia.org
Prevention means recognizing this fact -- and developing the
intellect to support true-prevention.
Best,
Otis
+++++++++++++++
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of
cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the treshold to
always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT doctors, we both
have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a
plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach you about
the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive refractive state. Otis
realizes the importance of preventing myopia at the threshold and
keeping your distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has saved
dozens of children from stair-case myopia including his own nephew and
neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be
praised for his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3 diopter minus lens
will cause stair-case myopia in chickens and monkies and any other
animals. Lots of near work starts the first signs of myopia and
something needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use the
wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year after year. |
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Dr. Leukoma
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1283
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
| Quote: | It is very clear, from the study of the dynamic primate eye, that we
INDUCE
a negative refractive STATE, because we have moved our visual "world"
close to our eyes.
|
This conclusion is not supported by the evidence. The evidence
indicates that refractive error can be induced using strong lenses in
certain species of young primates.
| Quote: |
Our eyes should be recognized to be dyanmic SYSTEMS, and have a
WARNING stenciled on them -- excellent visual system, but this
sytem controls its refractive STATE to its average visual environment
(defined
in DIOPTERS.)
|
Again, a conclusion based upon pure conjecture in order to promote an
agenda.
| Quote: | I think all parents should go through a tutorial on this subject PRIOR
to their
kids getting too deep into it.
|
OF COURSE. You would certainly like to be able to brainwash as many as
you can get your hands on.
| Quote: | It is a major choice or "decision" for the parent -- but well worth the
time THINKING about this issue. The choice will in fact have
life-time consequences for the child. Prevention is not easy -- and
I NEVER SAID IT WAS.
|
I wonder if walking around in concrete overshoes will prevent the foot
from growing, thereby saving lifetime costs on shoes?
| Quote: | But is it a matter of intelligent choice for the INFORMED parent -- as
the second-opinion.
Remember, there are now PREVENTION-MINDED ODs who have
their kids wearing a +2 diopter lens -- because their refractive state
is ZERO -- and they know that by the next exam -- the
kids refractive STATE will be negative.
|
Of course, the kid has nothing to say about being a guinea pig.
DrG |
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retinula@hotmail.com
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 44
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
very funny ace-troll.
trying to stir up some crap on this forum for your personal pleasure
huh? why don't you just go down in your bedroom and eat some
mushrooms.
your Daddy would be upset if he knew you were causing trouble again.
=========
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and understanding the
impact a wretched, evil minus lens has on stair-case myopia, one can
strive thru effort to exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of
cure. Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the treshold to
always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and I are NOT doctors, we both
have suggested you seek a second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a
plus lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach you about
the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive refractive state. Otis
realizes the importance of preventing myopia at the threshold and
keeping your distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has saved
dozens of children from stair-case myopia including his own nephew and
neice(she DOES pass the DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be
praised for his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3 diopter minus lens
will cause stair-case myopia in chickens and monkies and any other
animals. Lots of near work starts the first signs of myopia and
something needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use the
wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year after year. |
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
Dear AceMan,
Subject: The public LOVES very, very sharp vision -- INSTANTLY.
When you have children -- you are going to face this issue. It
is VERY EASY to sit a person in a chair in a darkened room,
place a strong minus in front of their eyes, and create 20/15 vision
(or
what ever their retina is capable of.
Why "object". The reason is the induction of stair-case myopia for
a young child. Granted the child INDUCED a slight negative
refractive STATE in the first place -- which makes HIM RESPONSIBLE --
but
the compounding effect of a "minus" on the refractive STATE of
the natural eye IS VERY CLEAR.
I am NEVER going to "fight" with a parent who loves having
his child in a strong minus (when his Snellen is 20/40) -- but
the parent should be well-aware of the consequence of that
FIRST -2 diotper minus (when the kid actually PASSES the
DMV level test.)
It is not MY intention that the child STAY at 20/50 (let us say),
but that he WORK with a +2 diopter, and (by montoring his
OWN SNELLEN, SLOWLY clear his naked eye to 20/30,
20/25, and perhaps 20/20. 20/20 is very, very shap vision
indeed.
With this concept in mind -- here are some remark
about the value of clearing your vision to 20/50 -- to
pass the 20/40 line FIRST, and then continue with
the work to CLEAR more of the Snellen -- if you
have both the interest and motivation to do so.
++++++++++
Charles> Why this obsession with "pass the DMV"? Most people don't
want to see
20/40, despite what you repeatedly keep saying.
Otis> If you love your childern to have 20/15 -- fine. But the
kid may not love stair-case myopia. But that becomes
a CHOICE of the parent.
Charles> Please understand and
absorb the fact that most people don't want to walk around seeing
20/40, or blowing off a -1.5 diopter prescription (sph or cyl) if they
can wear glasses and see clearly.
Otis> Fine. This is going to be a CHOICE that AceMan will
have to make for HIS children. If he wants his kids wearing
an over-prescribed minus -- then he can not complain
about the consequences, now can he?
When corrected, I see 20/15 or
slightly better, and I can tell when I'm not there. Doctors on this
forum have indicated that this is not unusual (being picky). Please
assimilate this information and stop acting like everyone is as
un-demanding about their vision as you claim to be.
Otis> It depends on how much you VALUE naked eye vision.
If you love an EASY -1.5, then no one is going to argue with
you about it.
Charles> Even if you guys had a way of getting nearsighted people to
20/40, it
doesn't do all that much except keep some people from having to find
their glasses to go to the bathroom at night.
Otis> The issue is that the NATURAL eye will move from a postive
refractive STATE to a negative refractive STATE -- if placed in
a strong "near" environment -- as a matter of "pure" scientific
test.
Otis> Further, if you are PASSING the DMV with 20/40, you
have a choice. And the choice is to take the proven behavior
of the fundamental eye SERIOUSLY, and work to clear
the 20/40 line -- to much clearer NAKED EYE VISION.
Otis> I know that (as you say) you have absolulty NO INTEREST
IN CLEAR DISTANT VISION FOR LIFE -- but do not
exclude the possibility that SOME PARENTS who
are a -8 diopters -- MIGHT WISH HELP TO AVOID
ENTRY INTO A NAEGATIVE REFRACTIVE STATE,
and avoid stair-case negative change in their
kids NATURAL EYES.
But that is their choice.
Best,
Otis |
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Dr Judy
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 304
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
| Quote: |
It is very clear, from the study of the dynamic primate eye, that we
INDUCE
a negative refractive STATE, because we have moved our visual "world"
close to our eyes.
|
No, that conclusion is not supported by the primate studies.
If human eyes behaved like primate eyes, there would be no myopes, as
the system would self correct and myopia would not develop.
Further, in the primate studies, as little as two hours a day of non
near work prevented myopia induced by constant near work. If human
eyes behave like primate eyes, the to induce myopia, a child would need
to spend more than 22 hours/day doing near point work without ever
looking up.
Dr Judy |
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Rev Jessie James
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 25
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Cletis is stupid and Nancy is even stupider
|
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|
| Quote: | Myopia starts out as the person is genetically going to get it.
Environment acts upon the genetic substrate.
|
I totally agree with this statement. In almost every aspect of human
development there is a genetic and environmental influence. Look at the
cases of the Medina twins, 2 boys who were separated at birth. One grew up
in an enviroment where reading and academics were stressed (joe) the other
on a farm where lots of outside physical labor was the norm (jim). 20 years
later, Joe is an overweight collage student who wears -6 lenses, whereas
Jim is a mechanic and has uncorrected vision of 20/40.
From this I could claim that they both had the genetic substrate to be both
overwieght and myopic, and the difference in environment had shaped the
extent these traits were to develop.
One of the "problems" I have seen is with how vision screening program are
implemented is some schools. The parents of a 7 yr old with 20/40 are told
to take their child are told their child has vision problems, so they take
him to the recommened eye doc. The doc gives them -1.5 lenses and tells the
parents "make sure he wears them at all times". Two years later the child
is in -3 lenses. Its amazing to see the number of kids wearing glasses in
a school that promotes vision screening, vs the schools that don't. From
what I seen from schools without vision screening is, only the children
who "really need" glasses tend to get them.
I'm not against vision screening, but the threshold for declaring a child
has a problem should clearly be raised. A child with 20/40 should be moved
to the front of the class, not forced to wear glasses. From what I have
seen, many kids that take this route are still at 20/40, two years later. |
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Mike Tyner
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1299
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote
| Quote: | Why "object". The reason is the induction of stair-case myopia for
a young child.
|
IF it happens. You haven't told us how you know it does. We can't find that
wearing glasses makes any difference. How many have you studied?
| Quote: | Granted the child INDUCED a slight negative
refractive STATE in the first place -- which makes HIM RESPONSIBLE --
|
And your brain is smaller than average. That makes YOU responsible.
-MT |
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Quick
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 343
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Otis is your friend he will help you prevent, reduce and improve myopia
|
|
|
I've been puzzled about that too. When I did my first
go round with soft multifocals about the best we could
do for distance was 20/40 at one point. I was stunned.
I felt barely functional. I did try driving (during the day)
but felt *very* uncomfortable doing so. I went a couple
of blocks, parked and took them out (presbyopia is what
I need corrected - my distance script is around +1 or less).
That vision was unacceptable to me. I can understand if
one is only *correctable* to 20/40 then you could *legally*
drive if necessary. But to have a goal of 20/40 not corrected
so you can drive without correction seems pointless.
In fact, I think if you do so you're self centered and
irresponsible. If 20/40 has been determined to be the
minimum safe limit I think it should only apply as
best corrected attested by a doctor. Allowable uncorrected
should be much more stringent. So I agree with you 100%.
-Quick
Charles wrote:
| Quote: | Why this obsession with "pass the DMV"? Most people
don't want to see 20/40, despite what you repeatedly keep
saying. Please understand and absorb the fact that most
people don't want to walk around seeing 20/40, or blowing
off a -1.5 diopter prescription (sph or cyl) if they can
wear glasses and see clearly. When corrected, I see
20/15 or slightly better, and I can tell when I'm not
there. Doctors on this forum have indicated that this is
not unusual (being picky). Please assimilate this
information and stop acting like everyone is as
un-demanding about their vision as you claim to be.
Even if you guys had a way of getting nearsighted people
to 20/40, it doesn't do all that much except keep some
people from having to find their glasses to go to the
bathroom at night.
acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:
By realizing the fundamental eye is dynamic and
understanding the impact a wretched, evil minus lens has
on stair-case myopia, one can strive thru effort to
exercise an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.
Think about your poor eyes and take the effort at the
treshold to always pass the 20/40 DMV. Because Otis and
I are NOT doctors, we both have suggested you seek a
second opinion optometrist who can pescribe a plus
lens(with prisms if neccessary) and he can also teach
you about the dynamic eye and how to keep it a positive
refractive state. Otis realizes the importance of
preventing myopia at the threshold and keeping your
distance vision clear and always passing DMV. He has
saved dozens of children from stair-case myopia
including his own nephew and neice(she DOES pass the
DMV, at least in the better eye) He is to be praised for
his way of thinking and as an engineer for understanding
that the eye is dynamic and not passive. A -2 or -3
diopter minus lens will cause stair-case myopia in
chickens and monkies and any other animals. Lots of near
work starts the first signs of myopia and something
needs to be done at the treshold or if you dont and use
the wretched minus lens, your eyes will get worse year
after year. |
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