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MMR vaccine quotes
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:06 am    Post subject: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr49.html
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr49.html


All quotes, no facts. Big surprise.


Bryan
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e83c21$lrv$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote:
john wrote:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr49.html
All quotes, no facts. Big surprise.

Bryan

Fact: measles deaths declined by 99.4% before vaccination in UK. So, no
evidence it reduced measles deaths, so useless.

Fact: MMR kills.

Fact: Vitamin C cures infections. Known for 50 years. Not used. It makes
vaccination unecessary, even if it was effective, which it isn't.

Fact: MMR Urabe withdrawn as unsafe. So impossible for them to withdraw
this one as it would spell the end of MMR, two in a row is a bit obvious.

Also it is well known DPT is the most unsafe of vaccines, so that would cast
the spotlight onto that.

Fact: MMR causes autism, as proven by thousands of parents observing their
own children regress into autism after vax, regressive autism being unheard
of in unvaccinated children, and a rarety until vaccination.

Fact: No study has shown MMR to be safe.

etc etc
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e83c21$lrv$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

john wrote:

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr49.html

All quotes, no facts. Big surprise.

Bryan


Fact: measles deaths declined by 99.4% before vaccination in UK. So, no
evidence it reduced measles deaths, so useless.

False. On both the stats for measles in the UK, and on the nor proven
useful:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16771219&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16650326&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12962524&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12631923&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11483273&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10216565&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7561669&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum


Quote:
Fact: MMR kills.

Reality: Vaccine-associated deaths do occur, but they are thousands of
time rarer then the rates of death caused by the disease being
vaccinated against:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12724845&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16790302&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3923849&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum


Quote:
Fact: Vitamin C cures infections. Known for 50 years. Not used. It makes
vaccination unecessary, even if it was effective, which it isn't.


Absolutely 100% false. The use of vitamin c, as well as several other
vitamins and minerals, as disease curatives has been extensively
studied, and the results clearly demonstrate minimal effects:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16291830&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_docsum

Title says it all:
"Vitamin E and Vitamin C Supplementation does not Improve the Clinical
Course of Measles with Pneumonia in Children: a Controlled Trial."

Vitamin C does not prevent colds, although it may slightly decrease
their duration:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15495002&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10488881&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum

Extra Vit C has no benefit if immunocomprisied patients have proper diet:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3696334&query_hl=47&itool=pubmed_docsum


Quote:
Fact: MMR Urabe withdrawn as unsafe. So impossible for them to withdraw
this one as it would spell the end of MMR, two in a row is a bit obvious.


Reality: One form of the MMR vaccine, which was distributed
predominantly in Japan, contained a form of inactivated virus which
resulted in disease in a small number of people. This vaccine was not
widely distributed elsewhere, and has since been redesigned using
another form of inactivated virus. Since then (1993) no MMR-associated
infections have been reported in healthy people:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12922131&query_hl=51&itool=pubmed_docsum



Quote:
Also it is well known DPT is the most unsafe of vaccines, so that would cast
the spotlight onto that.


Reality: DPT is very safe, whereas the diseases it protects us against
are some of the most deadly pathogens we encounter. The most common
side-effect of DPT vaccination are the same as other vaccines -
pain/swelling at the injection site, fever and rash. On the other had,
this is what the diseases do to you, if you're not vaccinated:

Diphtheria:
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/diphtheria2.htm
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure44.jpg
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/photos/diphcdc002a.jpg
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure43.jpg

Pertussis:
http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/dtp/pert/fam_pert.html
http://www.g-netz.de/Gesundheit_A-Z/Index_I-N/Keuchhusten/pertussis.jpg
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/pertussis.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Courses/Bio_160/Projects2004/pertussis/HOME.htm

Warning: first link has a disturbing video

Tetanus:
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/tetanus/photos.asp
http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/tetanus.jpg
http://www.rivm.nl/infectieziektenbulletin/bul126/tetanus.jpg


And a few other diseases John would rather our children get, in order to
avoid the extremely rare, and generally mild, side-effects of
vaccination (warning, disturbing pictures):

http://www.ilmaternal.org/CAIC/VPDinfo.htm

one has to ask - why does John hate children so much?



Quote:
Fact: MMR causes autism, as proven by thousands of parents observing their
own children regress into autism after vax, regressive autism being unheard
of in unvaccinated children, and a rarety until vaccination.


Absolutely, 100% false. A massive number of clinical trials,
retrospective studies and laboratory experiments have completely,
utterly and thoroughly debunked any evidence that MMR, or any other
vaccine, leads to autism:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15723921&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15384871&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16555271&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16235361&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15886168&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15957237&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum

And the recent increase in the rates of autism have been conclusively
shown to be a result of . . .

.. . . improved recording and a change in the clinical definition of autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum


Quote:
Fact: No study has shown MMR to be safe.

Point being? Name one thing - just one thing - in life which is 100%
safe. You can't because every little thing we do has some degree of
risk associated with it. Driving, walking, even just standing up, all
have risks associated with them. So, for that matter, does sleeping,
eating, getting exercise, going shopping, eating vegetables, etc, etc, etc.

As you can clearly see in my links above numerous studies have looked at
the safety of MMR, and other vaccines, and found that the risk of
vaccinations is far, far less then that of not being vaccinated at all.

Welcome to the real world, a world where nothing is 100% safe; it's all
a matter of risk reduction. And when you look at the numbers they speak
loud and clear - the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks -
1,000,000:1.

Bryan
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e83n3o$qce$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Quote:
Fact: measles deaths declined by 99.4% before vaccination in UK. So, no
evidence it reduced measles deaths, so useless.

False. On both the stats for measles in the UK, and on the nor proven
useful:


Bollocks, see the stats http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html

Quote:

Fact: MMR kills.

Reality: Vaccine-associated deaths do occur, but they are thousands of
time rarer then the rates of death caused by the disease being vaccinated
against:

Bollocks. Measles daeths had declined by 99.4% before vaccination. Go
figure. And vitamin C would prevent all deaths as proven clinically by dr
Klenner MD http://www.whale.to/m/klenner.html and Dr Kalokerinos MD
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/kalokerinos.html a nd recorded by dr levy MD
with 2,000 peer review references http://www.whale.to/a/levy4.html

So measles vax in MMR is not only ineffective in preventing deaths, as
proven by the stats, but also unecessary due to vitamin C.


Quote:

Absolutely 100% false. The use of vitamin c, as well as several other
vitamins and minerals, as disease curatives has been extensively studied,
and the results clearly demonstrate minimal effects:


Shows how much you know http://www.whale.to/a/levy_h.html

"Many viral infectious diseases have been cured and can continue to be
cured by the proper administration of Vitamin C. Yes, the vaccinations for
these treatable infectious diseases are completely unnecessary when one has
the access to proper treatment with vitamin C. And, yes, all the side
effects of vaccinations...are also completely unnecessary since the
vaccinations do not have to be given in the first place with the
availability of properly dosed vitamin C."---Dr Thomas Levy M.D., J.D.
(Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins p30)

CHRONIC SCURVY Vitamin C Deficiency as a Cause of Heart Disease by Owen R.
Fonorow PhD, MS, MBA http://www.whale.to/a/fonorow.html


Quote:

Absolutely, 100% false. A massive number of clinical trials,
retrospective studies and laboratory experiments have completely, utterly
and thoroughly debunked any evidence that MMR, or any other vaccine, leads
to autism:


Bollocks. It is just Epidemiology http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr54.html
all of which have been shredded, and Epidemiologic Evidence Is Insufficient
To Prove There Is No Link Between The MMR Vaccine And Autism
http://www.whale.to/a/epidemiology_q.html

Quote:
And the recent increase in the rates of autism have been conclusively
shown to be a result of . . .

. . . improved recording and a change in the clinical definition of
autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum

Bollocks http://www.whale.to/a/autism_diagnosis.html

"If the epidemic is truly an artifact of poor diagnosis," scoffs Dr. Boyd
Haley, one of the world's authorities on mercury toxicity, "then where are
all the twenty-year-old autistics?" (Excerpts from Deadly Immunity)


Quote:


Fact: No study has shown MMR to be safe.

Point being? Name one thing - just one thing - in life which is 100%
safe. You can't because every little thing we do has some degree of risk
associated with it. Driving, walking, even just standing up, all have
risks associated with them. So, for that matter, does sleeping, eating,
getting exercise, going shopping, eating vegetables, etc, etc, etc.

Sophistry. Breastfeeding is the best way to immunise, and it is safe,
unless you have a vaccine to sell.

Quote:

As you can clearly see in my links above numerous studies have looked at
the safety of MMR, and other vaccines, and found that the risk of
vaccinations is far, far less then that of not being vaccinated at all.

Yeah, but we don't believe it, we can see with our own eyes it is bollocks.
And they were all funded by the vaccine maker
Quote:

Welcome to the real world, a world where nothing is 100% safe; it's all a
matter of risk reduction. And when you look at the numbers they speak
loud and clear - the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks -
1,000,000:1.

Bryan

Bollocks and sophistry.
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

In article <e83c21$lrv$1@news.ucalgary.ca>,
Bryan Heit <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote:
Quote:
john wrote:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr49.html

All quotes, no facts. Big surprise.

In john's universe, all you have to do is quote someone and whatever
they say, no matter how ridiculous, is magically transformed into
truth. Evidence be damned, by the way.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: Enough Rash statements on Measles! Reply with quote

Enough Rash statements on Measles!
The Informed Parent are calling for an end to the constant flow of
scaremongering statements from so-called 'health' professionals. The latest
threat of a measles epidemic appears to be yet another attempt to increase
the MMR uptake. Measles has been on a major decline since the mid 1850s and
this has absolutely nothing to do with any measles or MMR vaccination. The
most dramatic decline in cases and deaths occured BEFORE vaccination.

Interestingly, in a 1959 edition of the British Medical Journal, when there
had been 51,000 measles cases in the UK that year, measles was described as
'the commonest disease in the world and normally a mild disease,
complications are rare.' This was of course 9 years before the single
measles vaccine was introduced when there was no incentive to frighten the
public! Additionally when the single vaccine was introduced in 1968 there
was less than 30% uptake of the vaccine for the first 4 years of use, and
still the number of cases declined. So why are we now being told that unless
we have a high uptake there will be epidemics? Why weren't there epidemics
when we had low uptake? Why, because vaccination plays no role in the
decline in disease.

A reasonably healthy child will sail through measles, and this will help
prime and mature their immune systems as well as act as a de-tox in
childhood. Acute illnesses in childhood, like measles, eliminate a build-up
of toxins within the child, and it is important not to suppress this action
by the body as it may lead to complications or chronic disease later in
life. Deaths and complications do not happen randomly there will be
underlying factors, so when individual cases are used to scare parents about
measles it is important to have all the facts about these cases.

A growing number of parents worldwide are choosing not to vaccinate at all,
and it is not because they can't get the single jabs, it is because they
don't see vaccination as playing any kind of role in promoting the health of
their children. Injecting a cocktail of microbes, animal and bird tissue,
heavy metals, formaldehyde and other chemicals by an unnatural route deep
into a child's system has nothing to do with health or immunity. Germs are
not the cause of disease, even Pasteur admitted that, in which case why is
there a constant attempt to come up with yet another vaccine? As one doctor
commented to me recently 'I am sure in a 100 years time doctors will look
back in horror as regards to vaccination' - personally I hope it is a lot
sooner!
Magda Taylor, Director of The Informed Parent, June 2006.
www.informedparent.co.uk
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/Measles%20Deaths.pdf
killer graph
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

In article <Tcqdndp8XaHn0DjZRVnyjA@bt.com>, john <sc@nospam.com> wrote:
Quote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e83c21$lrv$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
john wrote:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmr49.html
All quotes, no facts. Big surprise.

Bryan

Fact: measles deaths declined by 99.4% before vaccination in UK. So, no
evidence it reduced measles deaths, so useless.

Fact: measles cases dropped not at all before vaccination was
introduced, so even a low death rate still meant quite a few deaths
per year. john does not want to believe this, because measles didn't
kill him, therefore he is convinced that it never kills anyone and
doctors are somehow to blame.

Quote:
Fact: MMR kills.

Fact: john likes to believe that MMR kills and causes autism and no
amount of evidence will ever convince him otherwise.

Quote:
Also it is well known DPT is the most unsafe of vaccines, so that
would cast the spotlight onto that.

It's also a different vaccine, no reason to assume any common
properties with MMR except that they both prevent disease.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Enough Rash statements on Measles! Reply with quote

In article <QZSdnXcgOLzUtjvZRVnytw@bt.com>, john <sc@nospam.com> wrote:
Quote:
Enough Rash statements on Measles!
The Informed Parent are calling for an end to the constant flow of
scaremongering statements from so-called 'health' professionals.

Personally, I'd like to see fewer scaremongering statements from
so-called "anti-vaccine advocates."

Quote:
The latest threat of a measles epidemic appears to be yet another
attempt to increase the MMR uptake. Measles has been on a major
decline since the mid 1850s and this has absolutely nothing to do
with any measles or MMR vaccination. The most dramatic decline in
cases and deaths occured BEFORE vaccination.

And that, friends, is a flat-out lie. The decline in deaths did
indeed precede vaccination -- but the decline in cases did not.
The decline in cases started *only* after vaccination. It was
dramatic and has continued to the present date.

Quote:
Interestingly, in a 1959 edition of the British Medical Journal, when
there had been 51,000 measles cases in the UK that year, measles was
described as 'the commonest disease in the world and normally a mild
disease, complications are rare.'

Note the use of the word "rare." Not "nonexistent."

Quote:
This was of course 9 years before the single measles vaccine was
introduced when there was no incentive to frighten the public!

We could just as easily say they were attempting to avoid frightening
the public before vaccination, when there was no way to prevent the
disease.

Quote:
Additionally when the single vaccine was introduced in 1968 there was
less than 30% uptake of the vaccine for the first 4 years of use, and
still the number of cases declined.

Epidemic diseases are like that -- they rise and decline rather
sharply and unpredictably. It's probably a nonlinear system.

Quote:
So why are we now being told that unless we have a high uptake there
will be epidemics?

Because there will be. It always happens when uptake declines. The
anti-vaxers are, shall we say, slow on the uptake in addition to often
being shameless liars.

Quote:
Why weren't there epidemics when we had low uptake?

There were.

Quote:
Why, because vaccination plays no role in the decline in disease.

In some diseases. Not in measles.

Quote:
A reasonably healthy child will sail through measles, and this will help
prime and mature their immune systems as well as act as a de-tox in
childhood.

This is where we know we're dealing with major quackery -- when the
writer starts dragging in "de-tox."

Quote:
Acute illnesses in childhood, like measles, eliminate a build-up of
toxins within the child, and it is important not to suppress this
action by the body as it may lead to complications or chronic disease
later in life.

Oh, suuurrreee it does. These "de-tox" people always assure you that
this is the case. As soon as you ask them "what toxins, and how do
you know?" they fall silent.

Quote:
Deaths and complications do not happen randomly there will be
underlying factors,

Which the anti-vaxers cannot identify.

Quote:
so when individual cases are used to scare parents about
measles it is important to have all the facts about these cases.

You will not get all the facts, or any of them, really, from people
who start blathering about "toxins."

Quote:
A growing number of parents worldwide are choosing not to vaccinate
at all,

Because they've been scared by scoundrels.

Quote:
and it is not because they can't get the single jabs, it is because
they don't see vaccination as playing any kind of role in promoting
the health of their children.

No, it's mostly due to fearmongers like whoever wrote the piece of
garbage to which I am replying.

Quote:
Injecting a cocktail of microbes, animal and bird tissue, heavy
metals, formaldehyde and other chemicals by an unnatural route deep
into a child's system has nothing to do with health or immunity.

Of course it does.

Quote:
Germs are not the cause of disease, even Pasteur admitted that,

No, he didn't. That's another anti-vax lie.

Quote:
in which case why is there a constant attempt to come up with yet
another vaccine?

Because they work.

Quote:
As one doctor commented to me recently 'I am sure in a 100 years time
doctors will look back in horror as regards to vaccination' -

I'm sure this "doctor" is doing fine at the sanitarium and may someday
be allowed to have sharp objects once again.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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ziggittes@yahoo.com
medicine forum addict


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

There you go again, confusing john with facts.
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Vaccine-man" <ziggittes@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151851863.519883.12270@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
There you go again, confusing john with facts.


you wouldn't know vaccine truth if it came and sat on your face, you'd just
run for some ventolin
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

Educate yourself:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16771219&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16650326&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12962524&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12631923&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11483273&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10216565&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7561669&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12724845&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16790302&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3923849&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16291830&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15495002&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10488881&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3696334&query_hl=47&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12922131&query_hl=51&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/diphtheria2.htm
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure44.jpg
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/photos/diphcdc002a.jpg
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure43.jpg
http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/dtp/pert/fam_pert.html
http://www.g-netz.de/Gesundheit_A-Z/Index_I-N/Keuchhusten/pertussis.jpg
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/pertussis.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Courses/Bio_160/Projects2004/pertussis/HOME.htm
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/tetanus/photos.asp
http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/tetanus.jpg
http://www.rivm.nl/infectieziektenbulletin/bul126/tetanus.jpg
http://www.ilmaternal.org/CAIC/VPDinfo.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15723921&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15384871&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16555271&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16235361&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15886168&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15957237&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum

I know you'll just ignore the links (yet again, that would be what, 200
times now). But if you actually read these, and have something worth
while saying, I'll be more then happy to reply. If you're just going to
link back to whale.to, a page of which I'm certain you're an author,
then I'll not waste my time.

And just to cut off your usual argument, if you want any of these
articles just contact me and I'll forward you the PDF. That offer is
open to anyone who wants to take it up...

Bryan
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8ds3s$352$1@news.ucalgary.ca...


Quote:
I know you'll just ignore the links (yet again, that would be what, 200
times now). But if you actually read these, and have something worth
while saying, I'll be more then happy to reply.

That is big of you. The first one was on measles cases--the rationale for
eliminating measles is to eliminate deaths----there isn't any evidence
measles vax eliminated deaths as it has declined 99.4% before vaccination.
And the second one was about Priorix--a child killer
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/priorix_h.html

Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which would
eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism is only a
part.

Quote:
If you're just going to link back to whale.to, a page of which I'm certain
you're an author, then I'll not waste my time.

That just shows you are looking for an excuse to avoid whale data, as this
page is just pub med citations on vaccine damage
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html

Quote:

And just to cut off your usual argument, if you want any of these articles
just contact me and I'll forward you the PDF. That offer is open to
anyone who wants to take it up...

I can't imagine you have anything I want to read on your past efforts, put
it all on a website like I've done, if you believe it so strongly, then we
can take it apart at our leisure.

The thing is--there is overwhelming evidence vaccination is ineffective and
dangerous, and I can't waste that much time pissing into the wind
Back to top
Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8ds3s$352$1@news.ucalgary.ca...



I know you'll just ignore the links (yet again, that would be what, 200
times now). But if you actually read these, and have something worth
while saying, I'll be more then happy to reply.


That is big of you. The first one was on measles cases--the rationale for
eliminating measles is to eliminate deaths----there isn't any evidence
measles vax eliminated deaths as it has declined 99.4% before vaccination.
And the second one was about Priorix--a child killer
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/priorix_h.html

Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which would
eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism is only a
part.


See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted. Instead you posted the
usually, uncited BS you're known for. You want to know why no one takes
you seriously? It's simple; you fail every time your challenged to
support your claims and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary.


Quote:
If you're just going to link back to whale.to, a page of which I'm certain
you're an author, then I'll not waste my time.


That just shows you are looking for an excuse to avoid whale data, as this
page is just pub med citations on vaccine damage
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html


I can think of much better reasons to not trust whale.to, aside from
your out-of-date, and highly selective citation list:

1) I've identified several article in whale.to where the content of a
scientific study was either described incorrectly, or outright lied
about. You need look no farther then many of the times we've bumped
heads before to see some examples of that.

2) Out of date. For example, the newest of the articles in the link
above is 1995; as in 11 years old. The oldest - 1968, probably older
then most reader on this news group. Not exactly what you would call
current. Several sections are based solely on scientific and
non-scientific articles/books over 50 years old.

3) Most data is uncited and does not consist of scientific literature.
Opinion letters, letters to the editor, books, etc, are not scientific
sources for information.

4) Lack of internal consistency. Great example being that polio page
you pointed us to last month - the one where within the same section you
(you as in whale.to) claimed that polio was and was not due to the polio
virus.

5) Failure to deal with, or even acknowledge, counter-evidence. The
closest you've ever gotten to this are your occasional conspiracy rants,
where you "disprove" new studies by claiming they're all part of some
medical-governmental-scientific conspiracy.

6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense of
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.


7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page.
But having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.



Quote:
And just to cut off your usual argument, if you want any of these articles
just contact me and I'll forward you the PDF. That offer is open to
anyone who wants to take it up...


I can't imagine you have anything I want to read on your past efforts, put
it all on a website like I've done, if you believe it so strongly, then we
can take it apart at our leisure.

Firstly, what is the likelihood you'd even bother to read the webpage?
Slim to none, obviously. Besides, there are already hundreds of pages
out there...

And I'd point out that once again you've found yet another excuse not to
read the material I posted. Anyone surprised? About 1/2 of the
articles are freely available, so you cannot claim you can't read those.
As for the rest, I cannot post these articles to a webpage for two
simple reasons - firstly, it would be against my countries copyright
laws. Secondly, it would be against the TOU (terms of use) agreement my
university has with the publishers. But I can send them
person-to-person as that qualifys as a "personal communication", and
therefore does not break either the law or TOU.

Besides, I don't exactly have a lot of free time. While you're busy
authoring your little pages for whale.to I'm working - trying to find
cures for diseases and all that. So all the time you get is my
incubation periods - and that time is best spent countering you here.


Quote:

The thing is--there is overwhelming evidence vaccination is ineffective and
dangerous,

And yet you've been 100% unable to provide any links to scientific
studies demonstrating this. Just whale.to. And you cannot account for
(or for that matter, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of) the
tens of thousands of scientific and medical reports which demonstrate
both the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.


Quote:
and I can't waste that much time pissing into the wind

Translation: "I don't want to challenge my perceptions, so I won't read
the material". Here's that material again:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16771219&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16650326&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12962524&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12631923&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11483273&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10216565&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7561669&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12724845&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16790302&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3923849&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16291830&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15495002&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10488881&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3696334&query_hl=47&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12922131&query_hl=51&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/diphtheria2.htm
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure44.jpg
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/photos/diphcdc002a.jpg
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure43.jpg
http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/dtp/pert/fam_pert.html
http://www.g-netz.de/Gesundheit_A-Z/Index_I-N/Keuchhusten/pertussis.jpg
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/pertussis.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Courses/Bio_160/Projects2004/pertussis/HOME.htm
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/tetanus/photos.asp
http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/tetanus.jpg
http://www.rivm.nl/infectieziektenbulletin/bul126/tetanus.jpg
http://www.ilmaternal.org/CAIC/VPDinfo.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15723921&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15384871&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16555271&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16235361&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15886168&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15957237&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum


Bryan
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