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MMR vaccine quotes
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HCN
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
.....> 6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense of
Quote:
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.


7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page. But
having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.

.....


Just to give you a point of reference... You are dealing with a fellow who
claimed that a "demonic black line" burned his bum. Apparently you can deal
with "black lines" by a arranging chunks of resin wrapped in kitchen foil in
a special way (http://www.whale.to/y/black_lines.html)... Wink
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote:

See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted.

Bollocks. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4% before
vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

or the fact all your fancy studies showing it is safe are all flawed.


Quote:
Instead you posted the usually, uncited BS you're known for. You want to
know why no one takes you seriously? It's simple; you fail every time your
challenged to support your claims and ignore any and all evidence to the
contrary.

That sums you up, and all vaccine advocates. Measles deaths ahd declined by
99.4% before vax which completely invalidates vaccination.

As proven by the UK govs own data CD.

Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which would
eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism is only a
part.

As proven in clinical practice by Dr K, Dr Klenner, and Dr levy MD etc
http://www.whale.to/a/doctors_nutr.html

End of story.

"Conspiracy" talk is just ad hominem conspiracy

Although there is a medical conspiracy, called the medical monopoly.

Quote:
Besides, I don't exactly have a lot of free time. While you're busy
authoring your little pages for whale.to I'm working - trying to find
cures for diseases and all that.

RAOFL!! http://www.whale.to/m/therapies.html You pharma boys sure live
in a dreamworld called Allopath Land
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/townofallopath.htm

working on your skid marks

See who you really work for http://www.whale.to/a/bealle.htm

"At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge
everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure people of
an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with anything, stop
whatever you are doing and call me."---Lynne McTaggart www.wddty.co.uk

Quote:
And yet you've been 100% unable to provide any links to scientific studies
demonstrating this. Just whale.to. And you cannot account for (or for
that matter, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of) the tens of
thousands of scientific and medical reports which demonstrate both the
safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.


RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html

Something that kills isn't safe. http://www.whale.to/vaccines/safer.html

"Why is Health Not Yet a Human Right? That is why: 1.The market place of
the pharmaceutical industry is the human body. The foundation of this
industry is the 'Business with Diseases' - not its prevention or
eradication. 2. More than 24.000 pharmaceutical drugs currently on the
market -98% of all drugs - are without any proven therapeutic value. 3.The
dangerous side effects of these pharmaceutical drugs have become the fourth
leading cause of death - after heart attacks, strokes and cancer - thereby
further expanding the global pharmaceutical market. Think about it !
The Nature of the Pharmaceutical Industry. The natural purpose and
driving force of the pharmaceutical industry is to increase sales of
pharmaceutical drugs for ongoing diseases and to find new diseases to market
existing drugs. By this very nature, the pharmaceutical industry has no
interest in curing diseases. The eradication of any disease inevitably
destroys a multi-billion dollar market of prescription drugs as a source of
revenues. Therefore, pharmaceutical drugs are primarily developed to relieve
symptoms, but not to cure. If eradication therapies for diseases are
discovered and developed, the pharmaceutical industry has an inherent
interest to suppress, discredit andobstruct these medical breakthroughs in
order to make sure that diseases continue as the very basis for a lucrative
prescription drug market. The economic interest of the pharmaceutical
industry itself is the main reason why no medical breakthrough has been made
for the control of the most common diseases such as cardiovascular disease,
high blood pressure, heart failure, diabetes, cancer, and osteoporosis, and
why these diseases continue like epidemics on a worldwide scale.
For the same economic reasons, the pharmaceutical industry has now
formed an international cartel by the code name "Codex Alimentarius" with
the aim to outlaw any health information in connection with vitamins and to
limit free access to natural therapies on a worldwide scale.
At the same time, the pharmaceutical companies withhold public
information about the effects and risks of prescription drugs and
life-threatening side effects are omitted or openly denied.
In order to assure the status quo of this deceptive scheme, a legion of
pharmaceutical lobbyists is employed to influence legislation, control
regulatory agencies (e.g. FDA), and manipulate medical research and
education. Expensive advertising campaigns and PR agencies are used to
deceive the public. Millions of people and patients around the world are
defrauded twice: A major portion of their income is used up to finance the
exploding profits of the pharmaceutical industry. In return, they are
offered a medicine that does not even cure."--Dr Rath MD http://www.rath.nl/
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2Mednf-jhsqsaTfZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com...
Quote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
....> 6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense of
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.


7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page.
But having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.


Poor Bryan is using ad hominem as one of his main arguments. Why am I not
surprised. http://www.whale.to/a/conspiracy.html

Allopathy is pseudo-science par excellence

Allopathy : Also known as 'scientific medicine', 'orthodox medicine' and
'modern medicine', is barely about 200 years old. It lays emphasis on drugs.
It offers antibiotics, synthetic vitamins, steroids, chemotherapy,
radiation, and immunization all of which are highly dangerous. Its
diagnostics methods are not foolproof and 95% of surgeries in allopathic
hospitals are unnecessary. Doctors of modern medicine receive their
continuing education from Medical Representatives of (P)harmaceuticals, and
prescribe lethal drugs based on cuts and commission. These inadequately
tested and prescribed drugs create more diseases. Allopathy is a 'pseudo
science' which has done more harm to health and wellbeing of humanity than
any other 40 odd systems of healing described below. A TO Z OF ALTERNATIVE
MEDICINE by Dr. Leo Rebello (A chapter from Dr. Leo Rebello's popular book
AIDS and Alternative Medicine, 4th Edition)

Quote:
....

Just to give you a point of reference... You are dealing with a fellow who
claimed that a "demonic black line" burned his bum. Apparently you can
deal with "black lines" by a arranging chunks of resin wrapped in kitchen
foil in a special way (http://www.whale.to/y/black_lines.html)... ;)


"condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance"

That rather sums you up, good idea of yours to remain anonymous.

and there isn't any foil involved, by the way, but "without investigation"
should be your tag line

bit like allopathy
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Quote:

6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense of
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.


Ad hominem. Twice.

I know you Allopaths live in a small reality bubble, but some of us can
think for ourselves http://www.whale.to/a/allopathy_q.html which is what
you call 'mental instability'

For sure, if you started to think for yourself it would cause mental
instability

I think Bealle summed up your master, the Drug Trust, rather well
http://www.whale.to/a/bealle.htm or the Medical Mafia
http://www.whale.to/a/medical_mafia.html

Some MDs can see http://www.whale.to/vaccines/lanctot2.html

The bottom line is that the medical systems are controlled by financiers in
order to serve financiers. Since you cannot serve people unless they get
sick, the whole medical system is designed to make people sicker and sicker.
An Interview With Guylaine Lanctot, M.D. By Kenneth & Dee Burke
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8ds3s$352$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote:
Educate yourself:

Viera Scheibner read over 30,000 pages of medical papers dealing with
vaccination and discovered that, in all that material, there was no evidence
of effectiveness and safety of vaccines

I suggest you read her book http://www.whale.to/vaccines/scheibner.html and
educate YOURself. She also found that the conclusions to many articles were
at variance to the resdearch, which suggest the funding calls the tune.

I don't see why I should plough through 30,000 pages also, as you suggest.

Just the disease decline statistics are enough to invalidate vaccination, as
the measles deaths graph shows obviously.

"Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between
1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles
occured before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics."---Dr
Archie Kalokerinos, M.D.

Do you find that difficult to grasp?

and vitamin C makes the whole thing unecessary, even if it was effective and
safe, which it patently isn't, as the $1 Billion paid out by the US gov
shows, which is a tiny fraction of the real damage, as it is well known only
1-5% of adverse reactions get reported.

"Vaccination procedures are a highly politically motivated non-science,
whose practitioners are only interested in injecting multitudes of vaccines
without much interest or care as to their effects. Data collection on
reactions to vaccines is only paid lip service, and the obvious
ineffectiveness of vaccines to prevent diseases is glossed over. The fact
that natural infectious diseases have beneficial effect on the maturation
and development of the immune system is ignored or deliberately suppressed.
Consequently, parents of small children and any potential recipients of
vaccines and any orthodox medications should be wary of any member of the
medical establishment (which is little more than a highly politicised
business system) extolling the non-existent virtues of vaccination."--Viera
Scheibner

Quote:
(yet again, that would be what, 200 times now).

Hardly, and see above.

"The 'victory over epidemics' was not won by medical science or by
doctors--and certainly not by vaccines.....the decline...has been the result
of technical, social and hygienic improvements and especially of improved
nutrition. Here the role of the potato...deserves special
mention.....Consider carefully whether you want to let yourself or your
children undergo the dangerous, controversial, ineffective and no longer
necessary procedure called vaccination, because the claim that vaccinations
are the cause for the decline of infectious diseases is utter
nonsense."--The Vaccination Nonsense (2004 Lectures)---Dr. med. G. Buchwald
ISBN 3-8334-2508-3 page 108.


Quote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16771219&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16650326&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12962524&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12631923&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11483273&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10216565&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7561669&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=9987148&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12724845&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16790302&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3923849&query_hl=24&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16291830&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15495002&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=10488881&query_hl=36&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=3696334&query_hl=47&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=12922131&query_hl=51&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/diphtheria2.htm
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure44.jpg
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/photos/diphcdc002a.jpg
http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/infectiousdisvolii/chapter10figure43.jpg
http://www.cispimmunize.org/fam/dtp/pert/fam_pert.html
http://www.g-netz.de/Gesundheit_A-Z/Index_I-N/Keuchhusten/pertussis.jpg
http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/immunepics/pertussis.htm
http://www.brown.edu/Courses/Bio_160/Projects2004/pertussis/HOME.htm
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/tetanus/photos.asp
http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/tetanus.jpg
http://www.rivm.nl/infectieziektenbulletin/bul126/tetanus.jpg
http://www.ilmaternal.org/CAIC/VPDinfo.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15877763&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15723921&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15384871&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15366972&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16555271&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16235361&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15886168&query_hl=57&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15957237&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=72&itool=pubmed_docsum

I know you'll just ignore the links (yet again, that would be what, 200
times now). But if you actually read these, and have something worth
while saying, I'll be more then happy to reply. If you're just going to
link back to whale.to, a page of which I'm certain you're an author, then
I'll not waste my time.

And just to cut off your usual argument, if you want any of these articles
just contact me and I'll forward you the PDF. That offer is open to
anyone who wants to take it up...

Bryan
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

HCN wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
....> 6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense of

critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.


7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page. But
having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.


....

Just to give you a point of reference... You are dealing with a fellow who
claimed that a "demonic black line" burned his bum. Apparently you can deal
with "black lines" by a arranging chunks of resin wrapped in kitchen foil in
a special way (http://www.whale.to/y/black_lines.html)... ;)



in that case he should read up on this page - should be able to fit the
deflector beanie into his beliefs somehow . . .

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Bryan
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

In article <AaadnVcr96AYxjbZnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@bt.com>,
john <sc@nospam.com> wrote:
Quote:

"HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2Mednf-jhsqsaTfZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
....> 6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense of
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.

7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page.
But having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.

Poor Bryan is using ad hominem as one of his main arguments. Why am I not
surprised. http://www.whale.to/a/conspiracy.html

I've never noticed john to be averse to using ad hominem or insult.

Quote:
Allopathy is pseudo-science par excellence

Allopathy : Also known as 'scientific medicine', 'orthodox medicine' and
'modern medicine', is barely about 200 years old.

Nuclear physics is less than 200 years old. No doubt you'll dismiss
that also.

Quote:
It lays emphasis on drugs.

And surgery. And prevention.

Quote:
It offers antibiotics, synthetic vitamins, steroids, chemotherapy,
radiation, and immunization all of which are highly dangerous.

Highly dangerous to the incomes of the quacks that john always
champions.

Quote:
Its diagnostics methods are not foolproof

But better than those of the quacks.

Quote:
and 95% of surgeries in allopathic hospitals are unnecessary.

A gross exaggeration.

Quote:
Doctors of modern medicine receive their continuing education from
Medical Representatives of (P)harmaceuticals, and prescribe lethal
drugs based on cuts and commission.

Most doctors do not receive cuts or commissions on the drugs they
prescribe. Especially the generics.

Quote:
These inadequately tested and prescribed drugs create more
diseases.

Quackery fails to treat diseases at all.

Quote:
Allopathy is a 'pseudo science' which has done more harm to health
and wellbeing of humanity than any other 40 odd systems of healing
described below.

Some of the systems "described below" were absolutely hilarious. Or
at least they would be if there weren't people being treated by them.

Quote:
A TO Z OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE by Dr. Leo Rebello

The fact that something is in a book does not automatically make it
true.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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David Wright
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 750

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

In article <nPGdnfdbdKCgyjbZRVny1g@bt.com>, john <sc@nospam.com> wrote:
Quote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted.

Bollocks. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4% before
vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

The vitamin C thing is nonsense; the 99.4% statistic you so love
ignores that measles was still killing several hundred people, mostly
children, in the US every year before vaccination.

And YOU can't disprove that measles cases plummetted after vaccination
was introduced, and is now at about 0.1% of the levels it had before
vaccination.

Quote:
or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Measles kills too. john doesn't believe that -- or when it happens,
he blames it on doctors.

Quote:
or the fact all your fancy studies showing it is safe are all flawed.

And I should believe that because you say so? I don't think so.

Quote:
Instead you posted the usually, uncited BS you're known for. You want to
know why no one takes you seriously? It's simple; you fail every time your
challenged to support your claims and ignore any and all evidence to the
contrary.

That sums you up, and all vaccine advocates. Measles deaths ahd declined by
99.4% before vax which completely invalidates vaccination.

You're a broken record, john -- one who can never explain why nobody
gets measles any more, so nobody dies of it.

Quote:
Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which would
eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism is only a
part.

As proven in clinical practice by Dr K, Dr Klenner, and Dr levy MD etc
http://www.whale.to/a/doctors_nutr.html

Except that those are very old studies without any sort of proper
randomization or controls.

Quote:
End of story.

But not in the way you think.

Quote:
"At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge
everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure people of
an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with anything, stop
whatever you are doing and call me."---Lynne McTaggart www.wddty.co.uk

Gee, john, ever time you quote McIdiot like this, someone pops up with
a list of drugs that cure diseases. Accutane, for instance. But you,
being fantastically dense and dim, keep posting the same quote.

<quote from major loon Rath removed>

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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\"Jan Drew\"
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"David Wright" <wright@l1000.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:t%Qqg.62080$fb2.47254@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
Quote:
In article <AaadnVcr96AYxjbZnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@bt.com>,
john <sc@nospam.com> wrote:

"HCN" <hcn@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2Mednf-jhsqsaTfZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast.com...

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
....> 6) The whole conspiracy thing. Doesn't exactly build up a sense
of
critical and honest thinking, or for that matter, mental stability.

7) All of the material on UFO's, weather control, mind control, the
illuminati, dowsing, free energy, banking, and so forth. Every
conspiracy, pseudo-science, and urban myth, all supported by one page.
But having material like that on your page doesn't exactly lend much
credibility to your stuff.

Poor Bryan is using ad hominem as one of his main arguments. Why am I not
surprised. http://www.whale.to/a/conspiracy.html

I've never noticed john to be averse to using ad hominem or insult.

Allopathy is pseudo-science par excellence

Allopathy : Also known as 'scientific medicine', 'orthodox medicine' and
'modern medicine', is barely about 200 years old.

Nuclear physics is less than 200 years old. No doubt you'll dismiss
that also.

It lays emphasis on drugs.

And surgery. And prevention.

It offers antibiotics, synthetic vitamins, steroids, chemotherapy,
radiation, and immunization all of which are highly dangerous.

Highly dangerous to the incomes of the quacks that john always
champions.

Its diagnostics methods are not foolproof

But better than those of the quacks.

and 95% of surgeries in allopathic hospitals are unnecessary.

A gross exaggeration.

Doctors of modern medicine receive their continuing education from
Medical Representatives of (P)harmaceuticals, and prescribe lethal
drugs based on cuts and commission.

Most doctors do not receive cuts or commissions on the drugs they
prescribe. Especially the generics.

http://www.newstarget.com/z019546.html
Quote:

These inadequately tested and prescribed drugs create more
diseases.

Quackery fails to treat diseases at all.

Allopathy is a 'pseudo science' which has done more harm to health
and wellbeing of humanity than any other 40 odd systems of healing
described below.

Some of the systems "described below" were absolutely hilarious. Or
at least they would be if there weren't people being treated by them.

A TO Z OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE by Dr. Leo Rebello

The fact that something is in a book does not automatically make it
true.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

john wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted.


Bollocks. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4% before
vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

I disproved both of these statements, using multiple scientific studies
to back it up. As per usual you just ignored the links, and assumed
that because you ignored it that it didn't exist.

It's an interesting habit of yours, actually. My god-daughter used to
do that a lot. You know - if she couldn't see it, it didn't exist. She
stopped doing that at about age 6 - which I guess is about where your
brain stopped developing.


Quote:
or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided, and soon to be disproved yet
again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417


Quote:
or the fact all your fancy studies showing it is safe are all flawed.

You've got the links, please show us where they are flawed. Oh wait,
you've admitted to not understanding science - right here:

http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.health.alternative/tree/browse_frm/thread/310ef3f79a5f5601/05e37d372d82043d?rnum=21&q=admitted+heit&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fmisc.health.alternative%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F310ef3f79a5f5601%2F2fcdba847f8229b9%3Ftvc%3D1%26q%3Dadmitted+heit%26#doc_24f14e98962501dd

So I guess we can ignore anything you say about the quality of science.
After all; if you don't understand it, then how could you possibly be
in a position to judge the methodology the studies use?


Quote:
Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which would
eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism is only a
part.

As proven in clinical practice by Dr K, Dr Klenner, and Dr levy MD etc
http://www.whale.to/a/doctors_nutr.html


Oh look, John is quoting things he's written himself - again. No
evidence what-so-ever these claims are anything but one of the voices in
your head; nor any links to a scientific source which would support the
claims made. Ever heard of outside verification; it's the key to any
good argument. . .


Quote:
Besides, I don't exactly have a lot of free time. While you're busy
authoring your little pages for whale.to I'm working - trying to find
cures for diseases and all that.


RAOFL!! http://www.whale.to/m/therapies.html You pharma boys sure live
in a dreamworld called Allopath Land
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/townofallopath.htm


Thanx for that; I guess we know what you do with your time. So while
most of us are out doing things which help others you're in your
basement (maybe even your mom's basement) playing with flash.


Quote:
working on your skid marks

Projecting, are we?

Quote:

See who you really work for http://www.whale.to/a/bealle.htm


Don't work for any of those. I work for the people of Canada; as they
pay the taxes which supports my research. Not one pharma dollar has
ever been used in any study I've been directly involved in. And all of
my findings are public ally available; anyone who wants to take
advantage of them can do so on their own, regardless of the country they
live in.


Quote:
"At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge
everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure people of
an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with anything, stop
whatever you are doing and call me."---Lynne McTaggart www.wddty.co.uk


We went through this before - sulfa drugs, many cancer drugs, TGF beta,
INF gamma, rituximab, artemisinin, Herceptin, Mylotarg, Campath,
Zevalin, Bexxar, Erbitux, Avastin, terbinafine, passive immunotherapy,
antivenoms, etc, etc, etc. All lead to permanent cures of their
respective disease(s). Do you honestly think if you keep posting this
same idiotic question the answers will change?


Quote:
And yet you've been 100% unable to provide any links to scientific studies
demonstrating this. Just whale.to. And you cannot account for (or for
that matter, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of) the tens of
thousands of scientific and medical reports which demonstrate both the
safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.


RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html


Been through those before. You are aware that it is 2006, are you not?
After all, your newest cite is from 1995, your oldest from 1900, and
the average date of publication is ~1970. Science does advance;
apparently they forgot to teach you that in school. I'd point out that
every citation I provided in my last post was post-2000; as in modern
science.

Bryan
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8klvt$ttg$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Quote:

Bollocks. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4%
before vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

I disproved both of these statements, using multiple scientific studies to
back it up. As per usual you just ignored the links, and assumed that
because you ignored it that it didn't exist.


You don't need scientific studies to show death statistics, the governments
collect them.

That one stat demolishes measles vax, which is why you have a pathological
inability to see it.

same for vitamin C.

Quote:
Oh look, John is quoting things he's written himself - again. No evidence
what-so-ever these claims are anything but one of the voices in ?your head;
nor any links to a scientific source which would support the claims made.
Ever heard of outside verification; it's the key to any good argument. . .

Now now, you can't see the measles death stats or how vitamin C cures
measles and other infections.

The Use of Vitamin C as an Antibiotic------FRED R. KLENNER, M.D. 1952
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/195x/klenner-fr-j_appl_nutr-1953-v6-p274.htm
The Treatment of Poliomyelitis and Other Virus Diseases with Vitamin C Fred
R. Klenner, M.D. 1949
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/194x/klenner-fr-southern_med_surg-1949-v111-n7-p209.htm
Virus Pneumonia and Its Treatment With Vitamin C Fred R. Klenner, M.D. 1948
Klenner, F. (July 1954) Case history: cure of a 4-year-old child bitten by a
mature highland moccasin with vitamin C. Tri-State Medical Journal
Klenner, F. (July 1954) Recent discoveries in the treatment of lockjaw with
vitamin C and Tolserol. Tri-State Medical Journal pp. 7-11.
Klenner, F. (November 1955) The role of ascorbic acid in therapeutics.
(Letter to the Editor) Tri-State Medical Journal p. 34.
Klenner, F. (February 1956) A new office procedure for the determination of
plasma levels for ascorbic acid. Tri-State Medical Journal pp. 26-28.
Klenner, F. (September 1956) Poliomyelitis-case histories. Tri-State Medical
Journal pp. 28-31.
Klenner, F. (February I960) Virus encephalitis as a sequela of the
pneumonias. Tri-State Medical Journal pp. 7-11.
Klenner, F. (1971) Observations of the dose and administration of ascorbic
acid when employed beyond the range of a vitamin in human pathology. Journal
of Applied Nutrition 23(3&4):6l-88.
Klenner, F. (1973) Response of peripheral and central nerve pathology to
mega-doses of the vitamin B-complex and other metabolites. Journal of
Applied Nutrition pp. 16-40.
Klenner, F. (1974) Significance of high daily intake of ascorbic acid in
preventive medicine. Journal of the International Academy of Preventive
Medicine l(l):45-69.

and dozens more http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/


Quote:


or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided,

Not true. You can see why your links aren't worth the trouble to read.

"Every day that government health officials lie to the people about vaccine
risks is one more day that the public loses a little more trust in what they
are told by government. .....MMR vaccine is known to induce brain
inflammation and death within 8 to 14 days after vaccination......They and
parents like them are standing up and coming forward to witness what has
happened to their babies at the hands of pediatricians who told them that
vaccines, including the MMR vaccine, are absolutely safe. The vaccine
deaths of these babies might have been prevented if George and Anna's
parents had been given full and accurate information about MMR vaccine risk
factors and pediatricians had erred on the side of caution rather than
vaccinate at all costs. The rabid zeal to vaccinate, encouraged by
government health officials, puts many vulnerable children at risk and the
result is the brain damaging and killing of children like George and Anna."
[NVIC June 2006] Babies Die After MMR

AT LEAST 26 families claim their children died as a result of the
controversial measles, mumps and rubella jab, ...In some cases the
Government has awarded parents up to 100,000 under its 1979 Vaccine Damage
Payment Act. In others, post mortem reports concluded the jab was the most
likely cause of death. Despite this, the Department of Health insists no
child has ever died from MMR. http://www.whale.to/v/mmr101.html

MMR vaccine VAERS reports 7 deaths per year (1990-1994):
"From July 1990 thro' April 1994, 5799 ADRs following MMR vaccination were
reported to US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS); including
3063 cases requiring emergency medical treatment, 616 hospitalisations, 309
who did not recover, 54 children left disabled and 30 deaths.

Now what part of this sentence don't you understand? "the Government has
awarded parents up to 100,000 under its 1979 Vaccine Damage Payment Act"


Quote:
and soon to be disproved yet again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Already falling apart http://www.whale.to/vaccines/fombonne_h.html

and since you can't seem to read any page on whale, I've put some text here
for you:

SafeMinds Aids to Correct Misinformation

A Quebec study to be published in the July 2006 issue of Pediatrics, the
official journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, states that it is
"very clear" that there is no relationship between mercury-based thimerosal
in vaccines and the onset of autism. Dr. Eric Fombonne of the McGill
University Health Center bases his opinion on a study among schoolchildren
in Quebec, Canada. According to an analysis by SafeMinds, however, the study
methodology is unlikely to lend itself to such declarative statements and
should be treated with skepticism, for a number of reasons.
The study looked at 27,749 students in grades kindergarten through 12th
grade in a Montreal school district and found 187 cases of autism. The vast
majority of these cases (more than 90%) were born in years in which
thimerosal vaccines were widely used for infants in Quebec, as they were in
the US. Only a tiny fraction of the autism students were born when
thimerosal-free DTP and Hib vaccines were given, and these students may have
been exposed to thimerosal from the Hepatitis B vaccine newly recommended
for infants of foreign born parents, which made up over one fourth of the
greater Montreal population.
Dr. Fombonne wrongfully claims that large-population studies in the United
States, England and Denmark also disprove a link between mercury and autism,
and he states that "there is no autism epidemic." He conveniently ignores
the vast body of scientific evidence that has shown that environmental
factors such as mercury may have caused the increased number of autism
diagnoses in the US and other countries. Dr. Fombonne's actions have not
historically been in the best interest of families with autism-he has
declared himself an expert witness on behalf of various pharmaceutical
companies in thimerosal-related litigation. Thimerosal is a serious poison
that is harmful via inhalation, ingestion or contact with skin. Furthermore,
thimerosal- containing vaccines elevate mercury levels in the body to a
level where adverse neurological outcomes are known to occur. It is
irresponsible for any pediatric doctor to justify injecting our children
with mercury.
The prevalence of all autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) has risen to 1 in 166
children in the past 20 years. Several independent federal agencies and
respected scientists and researchers have received federal funds to
investigate the autism epidemic and the biological plausibility of a link
between mercury and ASDs. Multiple studies have indicated that there is a
connection between childhood vaccines containing thimerosal and the
incidence of autism. No conclusions have been made rejecting a link between
mercury and autism.

Quote:
and soon to be disproved yet again

Obviously "disproven" isn't exactly the right word to apply to this study or
all the other ones.


etc etc
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john
medicine forum addict


Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Bryan's Fombonne fiction Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8klvt$ttg$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Quote:
or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by the
fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided, and soon to be disproved yet
again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417



A letter on your latest junk science study:


The International Cochrane Collaboration confirmed the author of the study
you report on, Eric Fombonne is not qualified to be engaged in this kind of
work.

The last study Eric Fombonne carried out was dismissed as "impossible to
intepret". That was the conclusion of a comprehensive scientific review by
the Cochrane Collaboration. The Cochrane team investigated 5000 medical
papers on the subject and cut them down to only 6 dealing with Eric's pet
topic and those papers were pretty shakey too according to Cochrane.
Regrettably, they had to throw Eric's paper out completely - it was junk.
And if you check the BMJ, you will find an editorial dealing with the
continuing problem of even the supposedly most esteemed medical journals in
the thrall to drug companies publishing junk - Can we tame the monster?
BMJ 2006;333 (8 July)..

This is what the Cochrane Collaboration said in a review of the safety of
MMR about Fombonne's last paper:-

"The number and possible impact of biases in this study is so high that
interpretation of the results is impossible".


That is a pretty damning comment. If you need the .pdf of the paper with it
highlighted - see the attached.

Fombonne is a psychiatrist and that means not a real clinician nor
scientist. Psychiatry is in the most unsuccessful branch of medicine in
history.

Sadly, Eric goes around insisting "There is no scientific evidence that an
association between MMR immunization and autism exists." when there is
plenty of evidence. He just does not seem to want to admit it.

Next time you are going to run a story on one of Eric Fombonne's studies,
how about you put it in the "fiction" section?

Sincerely,

Mr Miller
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

Bryan Heit wrote:
Quote:
john wrote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8eid5$ce2$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

See, this is why you need to read the papers I linked to. I provided
ample evidence which disproves your concepts, and yet you completely
failed to even try to counter what I posted.


Bollocks. You can't disprove the fact deaths ahd declined by 99.4%
before vax, or the fact vitamin C cures it and makes vax unecessary.

I disproved both of these statements, using multiple scientific studies
to back it up. As per usual you just ignored the links, and assumed
that because you ignored it that it didn't exist.

It's an interesting habit of yours, actually. My god-daughter used to
do that a lot. You know - if she couldn't see it, it didn't exist. She
stopped doing that at about age 6 - which I guess is about where your
brain stopped developing.

Reminds me of the old joke....Which is closer, the moon or Australia?

The moon, because you can see it.

Quote:
or the fact MMR is dangerous, as it has killed children, as proven by
the fact the gov has paid out for deaths

Also disproved within the links I provided, and soon to be disproved yet
again:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

I posted the links to the abstract. Fine work.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/118/1/e139

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16818529&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum


Interestingly, and not unexpectedly, the Mercury Militia has attacked
Fombonne in their usual absurd manner. See:

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=392

Fombonne will be testifying in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding on behalf
of the US Department of Justice:

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/OSM/AutismDocket.htm

Take a moment and read the list of experts...


Quote:
or the fact all your fancy studies showing it is safe are all flawed.

You've got the links, please show us where they are flawed. Oh wait,
you've admitted to not understanding science - right here:

http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.health.alternative/tree/browse_frm/thread/310ef3f79a5f5601/05e37d372d82043d?rnum=21&q=admitted+heit&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fmisc.health.alternative%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F310ef3f79a5f5601%2F2fcdba847f8229b9%3Ftvc%3D1%26q%3Dadmitted+heit%26#doc_24f14e98962501dd


So I guess we can ignore anything you say about the quality of science.
After all; if you don't understand it, then how could you possibly be
in a position to judge the methodology the studies use?

John blames science for his not understanding it. He feels that science
should be self explanatory.

Quote:
Secondly Vitamin C therapy makes all vaccination unecessary, which
would eliminate all MMR injury (like the daeths above) of which autism
is only a
part.

As proven in clinical practice by Dr K, Dr Klenner, and Dr levy MD etc
http://www.whale.to/a/doctors_nutr.html

Oh look, John is quoting things he's written himself - again.

Why do people talk to themselves? They get answers that they can agree
with. If not, then it is a sign of severe mental illness.

No
Quote:
evidence what-so-ever these claims are anything but one of the voices in
your head; nor any links to a scientific source which would support the
claims made. Ever heard of outside verification; it's the key to any
good argument. . .


Besides, I don't exactly have a lot of free time. While you're busy
authoring your little pages for whale.to I'm working - trying to find
cures for diseases and all that.


RAOFL!! http://www.whale.to/m/therapies.html You pharma boys sure
live in a dreamworld called Allopath Land
http://www.mercola.com/townofallopath/townofallopath.htm

Thanx for that; I guess we know what you do with your time. So while
most of us are out doing things which help others you're in your
basement (maybe even your mom's basement) playing with flash.

Mercola, et al are cited here:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v287n24/abs/jbr20117.html

(you may want to get the study. If it is available in PDF format I would
like a copy. email it to mark[dot]probert[at]gmail[dot]com.)

Quote:
working on your skid marks

Projecting, are we?


See who you really work for http://www.whale.to/a/bealle.htm


Don't work for any of those. I work for the people of Canada; as they
pay the taxes which supports my research. Not one pharma dollar has
ever been used in any study I've been directly involved in. And all of
my findings are public ally available; anyone who wants to take
advantage of them can do so on their own, regardless of the country they
live in.

The anti-vac liars just love to make the claim that the pharmaceutical
companies are funding research which disproves the vaccine<->autism link.

Fombonne was attacked by that, but he stated:

"In the United Kingdom, Dr Fombonne has provided advice on the
epidemiology and clinical aspects of autism to scientists advising
parents, to vaccine manufacturers, and to several government committees
between 1998 and 2001. Since June 2004, Dr Fombonne has been an expert
witness for vaccine manufacturers in US thimerosal litigation. None of
his research has ever been funded by the industry." as quoted by"

http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=392

Quote:
"At your next dinner party, try playing the following game. Challenge
everyone around the table to produce a single drug that can cure
people of an illness, other then antibiotics. If you come up with
anything, stop whatever you are doing and call me."---Lynne McTaggart
www.wddty.co.uk

We went through this before - sulfa drugs, many cancer drugs, TGF beta,
INF gamma, rituximab, artemisinin, Herceptin, Mylotarg, Campath,
Zevalin, Bexxar, Erbitux, Avastin, terbinafine, passive immunotherapy,
antivenoms, etc, etc, etc. All lead to permanent cures of their
respective disease(s). Do you honestly think if you keep posting this
same idiotic question the answers will change?

Yes, John does have that hope. Hope is all he has.

Quote:
And yet you've been 100% unable to provide any links to scientific
studies demonstrating this. Just whale.to. And you cannot account
for (or for that matter, you refuse to acknowledge the existence of)
the tens of thousands of scientific and medical reports which
demonstrate both the safety and effectiveness of vaccinations.


RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html


Been through those before. You are aware that it is 2006, are you not?

The answer to that question is still debated.

Quote:
After all, your newest cite is from 1995, your oldest from 1900, and
the average date of publication is ~1970. Science does advance;
apparently they forgot to teach you that in school. I'd point out that
every citation I provided in my last post was post-2000; as in modern
science.

Chuckle.



> Bryan
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Bryan's Fombonne fiction Reply with quote

I see. Data is sound, so attack the researcher, and do it though a
letter you supposedly received from an unidentifiable source (Mr
Miller). I'd also point out that Eric Fombonne was just one of several
researchers on the project. This is how science is done - you surround
yourself with various experts, so that the study is done right. So you
can question the validity of Eric Fombonne's credentials all you want,
but it doesn't change the fact that he was one of 6 experts; including
MD's and PhD's, who all worked on the project.

For that matter, I don't suppose you could provide a link to prove what
you say is true; a search of Cochrane's webpage didn't bring up any
evidence of the article you claim exists; they don't even have Eric
Fombonne's name in their search engine! Not that I expect it exists;
this blatant attack on Eric Fombonne reeks of desperation. Must really
suck to see a long-held belief suffer a fatal wound.

As for the study, here is the link. I'm sure you'll make up some excuse
to ignore it, but I'm giving it anyways. If you actually bother to read
it, I'd love to hear how you explain away this evidence:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/118/1/e139

Bryan
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: MMR vaccine quotes Reply with quote

Mark Probert wrote:
Quote:
Bryan Heit wrote:
You've got the links, please show us where they are flawed. Oh wait,
you've admitted to not understanding science - right here:

http://groups.google.ca/group/misc.health.alternative/tree/browse_frm/thread/310ef3f79a5f5601/05e37d372d82043d?rnum=21&q=admitted+heit&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fmisc.health.alternative%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F310ef3f79a5f5601%2F2fcdba847f8229b9%3Ftvc%3D1%26q%3Dadmitted+heit%26#doc_24f14e98962501dd


So I guess we can ignore anything you say about the quality of
science. After all; if you don't understand it, then how could you
possibly be in a position to judge the methodology the studies use?


John blames science for his not understanding it. He feels that science
should be self explanatory.


It's a good thing science isn't that simple - otherwise we'd have the
whole universe figured out and I'd need a new job ;-)



Quote:
Mercola, et al are cited here:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v287n24/abs/jbr20117.html

(you may want to get the study. If it is available in PDF format I would
like a copy. email it to mark[dot]probert[at]gmail[dot]com.)


Something is wrong with the link; I get a page not found error. I
searched for the author; I assume this is what you want:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/285/12/1576?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&author1=Mercola&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

If so let me know and I'll forward you the PDF.


Quote:
RAOFL! Like these http://www.whale.to/vaccine/citations.html



Been through those before. You are aware that it is 2006, are you not?


The answer to that question is still debated.


ROFL


Bryan
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