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quietreef
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject:
3 questions from a potential student
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Hi there from Canada (close to the US border):
Good morning. I have a few questions and I'm going to hope there are
some experienced people out there who can answer them.
First, as background: I'm in my early forties, kids grown, and I'm
considering leaving a boring but well-paid career to go back to school
for a nursing degree and career. I am a US and a Canadian citizen, and
I can afford to pay for school and live off of savings while in
school.
question #1: since I would be in my forties when graduating, would I
experience serious age discrimination in finding jobs? Is the demand
high enough that I will certainly find a job *somewhere*? We all know
this is illegal, but happens anyway. Assume I'm not a hag, and have
good interpersonal skills, job interview skills etc.
question #2: should I pursue a 2 year degree (in the states) and then
take my time getting a BN while working or go ahead and get the BN? I
already have a BA, so I'll surely get at least a few credits.
question #3: I'm not sure if I want to live/work in Canada or the US,
and would like to be certified in both. So should I go to school in
Canada and then take the US exams or go to school in the US and then
take the Canadian exams. I live close to the border and could do
either.
Thanks for any and all replies,
quietreef |
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Kurt Ullman
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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In article <dao7a29vmd1jdd9u8uhgch4uo64kpvbkri@4ax.com>,
quietreef <quietreef@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | question #1: since I would be in my forties when graduating, would I
experience serious age discrimination in finding jobs? Is the demand
high enough that I will certainly find a job *somewhere*? We all know
this is illegal, but happens anyway. Assume I'm not a hag, and have
good interpersonal skills, job interview skills etc.
Probably not. Nursing is not really a place where you have to 22 and |
a newly minted BCN to get a good job. Even if a hag.
| Quote: | question #2: should I pursue a 2 year degree (in the states) and then
take my time getting a BN while working or go ahead and get the BN? I
already have a BA, so I'll surely get at least a few credits.
Depends largely on your situation. You can get a two year degree |
and start working with income and (at least in the US) health insurance
paid for largely by someone else. They also probably have tuition
reimbusement. These are the main opportunity costs to going on for the
BSN.
On the other hand, if you don't think you are disciplined enough to
do a 2-2, can afford and want the BSN for the ability to do other
things, go straight through.
| Quote: |
question #3: I'm not sure if I want to live/work in Canada or the US,
and would like to be certified in both. So should I go to school in
Canada and then take the US exams or go to school in the US and then
take the Canadian exams. I live close to the border and could do
either.
Anybody else? |
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Candide
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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"quietreef" <quietreef@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dao7a29vmd1jdd9u8uhgch4uo64kpvbkri@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Hi there from Canada (close to the US border):
Good morning. I have a few questions and I'm going to hope there are
some experienced people out there who can answer them.
First, as background: I'm in my early forties, kids grown, and I'm
considering leaving a boring but well-paid career to go back to school
for a nursing degree and career. I am a US and a Canadian citizen, and
I can afford to pay for school and live off of savings while in
school.
question #1: since I would be in my forties when graduating, would I
experience serious age discrimination in finding jobs? Is the demand
high enough that I will certainly find a job *somewhere*? We all know
this is illegal, but happens anyway. Assume I'm not a hag, and have
good interpersonal skills, job interview skills etc.
|
Not at all, haven't you heard? Forty is the new "thirty"! *LOL*
Seriously, there are persons in their 50's going for it and seem to have
no problems finding work. What you must consider is that nursing school
is no cake walk, even for those in their late teens or twenties. For two
or more years your life will pretty much revolve around school, and you
need to examine if you have the physical and mental strength. It also
helps to have a good support network, especially to see that things are
taken care of on the home front. If you do not have to work, so much the
better, however if you work and go to school, multiply the stress level
by one or two points.
| Quote: |
question #2: should I pursue a 2 year degree (in the states) and then
take my time getting a BN while working or go ahead and get the BN? I
already have a BA, so I'll surely get at least a few credits.
|
Associate or BSN you will spend two years or more in nursing school.
Consider a "second degree" BSN program if it is offered in your area.
These programs take persons like yourself, who already have a BA or BS
and allow them to enter a nursing program, graduating with the BSN.
Since you only have a BA, you may have the required science or math
courses. Some programs let students take these courses along with the
program, others require one to complete them before applying. If you go
to a regular BSN or ADN program, yes you probably will receive credits
for past work, but will have to sit down with the school's registrar and
see what will transfer.
Best thing is to start contacting programs in your area for
applications/information.
| Quote: |
question #3: I'm not sure if I want to live/work in Canada or the US,
and would like to be certified in both. So should I go to school in
Canada and then take the US exams or go to school in the US and then
take the Canadian exams. I live close to the border and could do
either.
Thanks for any and all replies,
quietreef
|
All things considered, I'd attend an US school and take the boards here.
Just so you know, most nursing programs have more applicants than seats,
with students completing pre-nursing sequences with 4.0's and above in
some cases waiting one,two or more semesters before being admitted to
the program. Even if you are only thinking about this, you should at
least start contacting programs in your area. Again more likely than not
you will need some science and math courses, and the sooner you sort
things out, and perhaps start taking the required classes, the better.
Oh yes, the reason for the back log of students is that nursing
programs, unlike other majors are limited in class size, mainly due to
the amount of instructors. Like RNs there is also a shortage of nursing
instructors holding masters degrees, this means schools cannot increase
their class sizes easily.
Best of luck,
Candide |
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ruthlee1951@msn.com
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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I'm 55 and have no problem getting a job. I am currently working
hospice, but have had recent offers with a Psych hosp. and a home
health agency. The hospitals here do a lot of "same day hiring" if an
applicant comes in with a license, degree, and breathing. |
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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Candide wrote:
| Quote: | Oh yes, the reason for the back log of students is that nursing
programs, unlike other majors are limited in class size, mainly due to
the amount of instructors. Like RNs there is also a shortage of nursing
instructors holding masters degrees, this means schools cannot increase
their class sizes easily.
|
More often than not we find ourselves on the opposite sides of a discussion but
not this time. I have to agree with everything you said. Excellent advice.
BTW: isn't the average age of RNs in the US now 50? I believe that's what I've
read.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE |
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Renee
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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<ruthlee1951@msn.com> wrote in message
| Quote: | I'm 55 and have no problem getting a job. I am currently working
hospice, but have had recent offers with a Psych hosp. and a home
health agency. The hospitals here do a lot of "same day hiring" if
an
applicant comes in with a license, degree, and breathing.
|
Not around here. The only thing they don't ask for around here is a
DNA sample. I've been waiting two weeks for confirmation of an offer.
The NM wanted to hire me on the spot, but I've been waiting for HR.
They won't even quote me a salary until they verify every single place
I've ever worked, and they won't check the places unless I have a
phone number. Yesterday I was struggling with the HR person over a
job I left in *1989*, because, golly, I don't remember the phone
number to that hospital on the other side of the country. Then there
was a facility I left last year, that I had also worked at six years
earlier. They verified the first employment but didn't ask about the
second, because I didn't put the phone number down a second time.
You'd think after the first few they checked, they'd realize I'm on
the level. I am about ready to chuck this place and go elsewhere,
even though I really wanted this particular job. |
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Norminn
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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quietreef wrote:
| Quote: | Hi there from Canada (close to the US border):
Good morning. I have a few questions and I'm going to hope there are
some experienced people out there who can answer them.
First, as background: I'm in my early forties, kids grown, and I'm
considering leaving a boring but well-paid career to go back to school
for a nursing degree and career. I am a US and a Canadian citizen, and
I can afford to pay for school and live off of savings while in
school.
question #1: since I would be in my forties when graduating, would I
experience serious age discrimination in finding jobs? Is the demand
high enough that I will certainly find a job *somewhere*? We all know
this is illegal, but happens anyway. Assume I'm not a hag, and have
good interpersonal skills, job interview skills etc.
question #2: should I pursue a 2 year degree (in the states) and then
take my time getting a BN while working or go ahead and get the BN? I
already have a BA, so I'll surely get at least a few credits.
question #3: I'm not sure if I want to live/work in Canada or the US,
and would like to be certified in both. So should I go to school in
Canada and then take the US exams or go to school in the US and then
take the Canadian exams. I live close to the border and could do
either.
Thanks for any and all replies,
quietreef
|
In addition to what others have mentioned, I would consider whether
Canada is the best choice for school if you will have health benefits.
If you don't have a pretty solid science background, take some biology,
anatomy and/or chem. courses before you leave your present job.
If you have tax-sheltered savings plans like in the US, you might be
able to borrow from the savings (and pay yourself back with interest).
If your present job is not challenging, consider going for the BS while
you remain with your company, especially if you keep piling on
worthwhile pension credit. Pensions, if found with US employers, are
disappearing fast.
If your employer pays tuition, try to take advantage of that, as well.
I certainly would not plan on exhausting savings, if possible to avoid
it. You are young, but time flies  ) |
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Norminn
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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Renee wrote:
| Quote: | ruthlee1951@msn.com> wrote in message
I'm 55 and have no problem getting a job. I am currently working
hospice, but have had recent offers with a Psych hosp. and a home
health agency. The hospitals here do a lot of "same day hiring" if
an
applicant comes in with a license, degree, and breathing.
Not around here. The only thing they don't ask for around here is a
DNA sample. I've been waiting two weeks for confirmation of an offer.
The NM wanted to hire me on the spot, but I've been waiting for HR.
They won't even quote me a salary until they verify every single place
I've ever worked, and they won't check the places unless I have a
phone number. Yesterday I was struggling with the HR person over a
job I left in *1989*, because, golly, I don't remember the phone
number to that hospital on the other side of the country. Then there
was a facility I left last year, that I had also worked at six years
earlier. They verified the first employment but didn't ask about the
second, because I didn't put the phone number down a second time.
You'd think after the first few they checked, they'd realize I'm on
the level. I am about ready to chuck this place and go elsewhere,
even though I really wanted this particular job.
Your resume is the first "snap shot" an employer takes, and HR folks |
think much differently than nurses ) I updated my resume a while
back, and it goes back to the stone age. School gone and hosp. torn
down. Employer out of business or operating under a different name. To
find out what happened to one hospital, I called the nursing office at
another hospital nearby to inquire, and found they had only changed the
name. Once worked in a specialized unit of an insurance company, since
closed so I called the home office to find out where a peotential
employer should submit inquiries. I have worked in HR, and had some
good laughs over resumes. I would not be anxious to hire someone who
doesn't bother to send a clear and correct record of employment. |
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quietreef
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:29:45 GMT, Norminn <norminn@earthlink.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
In addition to what others have mentioned, I would consider whether
Canada is the best choice for school if you will have health benefits.
|
Yes, health benefits are easy to have up here. Not sure how that
works when you're a student in the US--I think they're available to
students, no? My son attends a state school in Texas and they have a
health plan available for all students.
| Quote: |
If you don't have a pretty solid science background, take some biology,
anatomy and/or chem. courses before you leave your present job.
|
Got one. Although I may not get credit for classes that are old, I
was a physics minor in university and have calculus, chem, and lots of
bio courses. i.e. I know I can do the work.
| Quote: |
If you have tax-sheltered savings plans like in the US, you might be
able to borrow from the savings (and pay yourself back with interest).
|
Not sure I want to do that.
| Quote: | If your present job is not challenging, consider going for the BS while
you remain with your company, especially if you keep piling on
worthwhile pension credit. Pensions, if found with US employers, are
disappearing fast.
|
Yeah, I know, but I'd rather be a full-time student. It would take
forever to work and go to school.
| Quote: | If your employer pays tuition, try to take advantage of that, as well.
|
Not for nursing ;o). I work in oil and gas.
| Quote: | I certainly would not plan on exhausting savings, if possible to avoid
it. You are young, but time flies )
|
I agree. I wouldn't have to exhaust them, but rather dip into them.
I'm feeling a lot like it's now or never. With kids done with high
school, I feel free.
I am grateful for all replies.
quietreef |
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editor@netpath.net
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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quietreef wrote:
| Quote: | Hi there from Canada (close to the US border):
|
First issue: American nursing programs now run a HUGE shortage of
admissions slots. You can easily have a B+ average in all required
prerequisites and still be turned away from nursing programs in America
- just because of this. The shortage of admissions slots in American
nursing programs is primarily a result of too few instructors or nurses
wanting to be instructors - due to being an instructor paying less than
new RNs get. (What is the situation on space in Canadian nursing
programs for Americans?)
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com |
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Renee
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:33 am Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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"Norminn" <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
| Quote: | Renee wrote:
Yesterday I was struggling with the HR person over a job I left in
*1989*, because, golly, I don't remember the phone number to that
hospital on the other side of the country. Then there was a
facility I left last year, that I had also worked at six years
earlier. They verified the first employment but didn't ask about
the second, because I didn't put the phone number down a second
time. You'd think after the first few they checked, they'd realize
I'm on the level. I am about ready to chuck this place and go
elsewhere, even though I really wanted this particular job.
Your resume is the first "snap shot" an employer takes, and HR folks
think much differently than nurses ) I updated my resume a while
back, and it goes back to the stone age. School gone and hosp. torn
down. Employer out of business or operating under a different name.
To find out what happened to one hospital, I called the nursing
office at another hospital nearby to inquire, and found they had
only changed the name. Once worked in a specialized unit of an
insurance company, since closed so I called the home office to find
out where a peotential employer should submit inquiries. I have
worked in HR, and had some good laughs over resumes. I would not be
anxious to hire someone who doesn't bother to send a clear and
correct record of employment.
|
I did send a clear and correct record of employment. But I have never
been asked--and I've applied for a good many jobs over the years--to
supply a phone number to a facility where I hadn't worked in nearly 20
years. Barring that, they want my W-2. Now, I'll be sure to go find
my tax returns from 1989.
My nursing school is out of business, too, but I do know where I can
get records from them. So far I haven't been asked for that. |
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Renee
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:34 am Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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<editor@netpath.net> wrote in message
| Quote: | The shortage of admissions slots in American
nursing programs is primarily a result of too few instructors or
nurses
wanting to be instructors - due to being an instructor paying less
than
new RNs get.
|
Also due to the rigid requirements that the instructors have master's
degrees in nursing, regardless of the level of nursing being taught.
Many nurses out there would make fine instructors but do not have the
paper credentials required. |
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editor@netpath.net
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:37 am Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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Renee quoted me:
| Quote: | The shortage of admissions slots in American
nursing programs is primarily a result of too few instructors or
nurses wanting to be instructors - due to being an instructor paying less
than new RNs get.
|
and replied:
| Quote: | Also due to the rigid requirements that the instructors have master's
degrees in nursing, regardless of the level of nursing being taught.
Many nurses out there would make fine instructors but do not have the
paper credentials required.
|
That also factors into it - but relates to what I said. Why get
that MSN if at the end of your effort you'll be paid the same as the
associate-degree RN who graduated the year before in your local
community college? Thus, there never will be enough RNs with
instructor-level credentials - unless it somehow pays.
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com |
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Norminn
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
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clipped
| Quote: | I did send a clear and correct record of employment. But I have never
been asked--and I've applied for a good many jobs over the years--to
supply a phone number to a facility where I hadn't worked in nearly 20
years. Barring that, they want my W-2. Now, I'll be sure to go find
my tax returns from 1989.
My nursing school is out of business, too, but I do know where I can
get records from them. So far I haven't been asked for that.
Although many employers may not ask for formal written references from |
former employers, they generally confirm prior employement by phone -
it's pretty basic, and the more security-concious the employer, the more
sure they will do it. In my experience, phone calls were made to
confirm prior employment before anyone even thought of arranging an
interview.
If I provided just names and addresses of all of my former employers as
they were at the time of my employment, a prospective employer would
have no idea of what happened if they could not reach three or four of
them without my researching and making clear that they changed name, are
out of business, part of another corp., etc. If I was hiring, and
three phone calls to previous employers came up blank, I would assume
the information faulty and throw the resume away. Even with a great
looking resume and successful interviews and early employment, I have
known of people being fired when it became known that information on
resumes or applications was untrue. Resumes are viewed as part of a
career, just as degrees and GPA's - a messy one implies messy work,
especially to HR folks. |
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Candide
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject:
Re: 3 questions from a potential student
|
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|
"Norminn" <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Wafpg.721$cd3.634@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | clipped
I did send a clear and correct record of employment. But I have
never
been asked--and I've applied for a good many jobs over the years--to
supply a phone number to a facility where I hadn't worked in nearly
20
years. Barring that, they want my W-2. Now, I'll be sure to go
find
my tax returns from 1989.
My nursing school is out of business, too, but I do know where I can
get records from them. So far I haven't been asked for that.
Although many employers may not ask for formal written references from
former employers, they generally confirm prior employement by phone -
it's pretty basic, and the more security-concious the employer, the
more
sure they will do it. In my experience, phone calls were made to
confirm prior employment before anyone even thought of arranging an
interview.
If I provided just names and addresses of all of my former employers
as
they were at the time of my employment, a prospective employer would
have no idea of what happened if they could not reach three or four of
them without my researching and making clear that they changed name,
are
out of business, part of another corp., etc. If I was hiring, and
three phone calls to previous employers came up blank, I would assume
the information faulty and throw the resume away. Even with a great
looking resume and successful interviews and early employment, I have
known of people being fired when it became known that information on
resumes or applications was untrue. Resumes are viewed as part of a
career, just as degrees and GPA's - a messy one implies messy work,
especially to HR folks.
|
Think recent events such as the "nurse Cullen" scandal may have caused
many hospitals ramp up their pre-employment screening processes.
However since most places will only confirm dates of employment and
reveal little else, not sure what value all the who-ha provides.
Candide |
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