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coronary
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:49 pm Post subject:
An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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www.healthline.bravehost.com
An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat prevents
coronary
artery disease? An American paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
www.healthline.bravehost.com
What Is Coronary Artery Disease?
Coronary artery disease (CAD) occurs when the arteries that supply
blood to the heart muscle (the coronary arteries) become hardened and
narrowed. The arteries harden and narrow due to buildup of a material
called plaque (plak) on their inner walls. The buildup of plaque is
known as atherosclerosis (ATH-er-o-skler-O-sis). As the plaque
increases in size, the insides of the coronary arteries get narrower
and less blood can flow through them. Eventually, blood flow to the
heart muscle is reduced, and, because blood carries much-needed oxygen,
the heart muscle is not able to receive the amount of oxygen it needs.
Reduced or cutoff blood flow and oxygen supply to the heart muscle can
result in:
Angina (AN-ji-na or an-JI-na). Angina is chest pain or discomfort that
occurs when the heart does not get enough blood.
Heart attack. A heart attack happens when a blood clot develops at the
site of plaque in a coronary artery and suddenly cuts off most or all
blood supply to that part of the heart muscle. Cells in the heart
muscle begin to die if they do not receive enough oxygen-rich blood.
This can cause permanent damage to the heart muscle.
Over time, CAD can weaken the heart muscle and contribute to:
Heart failure. In heart failure, the heart can't pump blood
effectively to the rest of the body. Heart failure does not mean that
the heart has stopped or is about to stop. Instead, it means that the
heart is failing to pump blood the way that it should.
Arrhythmias (a-RITH-me-as). Arrhythmias are changes in the normal
beating rhythm of the heart. Some can be quite serious.
CAD is the most common type of heart disease. It is the leading cause
of death in the United States in both men and women.
www.healthline.bravehost.com |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:42 am Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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"coronary" <healthline2@hotmail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | www.healthline.bravehost.com
An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat prevents
coronary
artery disease? An American paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
www.healthline.bravehost.com
What Is Coronary Artery Disease?
Coronary artery disease (CAD) occurs when the arteries that supply
blood to the heart muscle (the coronary arteries) become hardened and
narrowed. The arteries harden and narrow due to buildup of a material
called plaque (plak) on their inner walls.
|
This a common error. The plaque in NOT on the inner wall of the arteries.
| Quote: | The buildup of plaque is
known as atherosclerosis (ATH-er-o-skler-O-sis). As the plaque
increases in size, the insides of the coronary arteries get narrower
and less blood can flow through them. Eventually, blood flow to the
heart muscle is reduced, and, because blood carries much-needed oxygen,
the heart muscle is not able to receive the amount of oxygen it needs.
Reduced or cutoff blood flow and oxygen supply to the heart muscle can
result in:
Angina (AN-ji-na or an-JI-na). Angina is chest pain or discomfort that
occurs when the heart does not get enough blood.
Heart attack. A heart attack happens when a blood clot develops at the
site of plaque in a coronary artery and suddenly cuts off most or all
blood supply to that part of the heart muscle. Cells in the heart
muscle begin to die if they do not receive enough oxygen-rich blood.
This can cause permanent damage to the heart muscle.
Over time, CAD can weaken the heart muscle and contribute to:
Heart failure. In heart failure, the heart can't pump blood
effectively to the rest of the body. Heart failure does not mean that
the heart has stopped or is about to stop. Instead, it means that the
heart is failing to pump blood the way that it should.
Arrhythmias (a-RITH-me-as). Arrhythmias are changes in the normal
beating rhythm of the heart. Some can be quite serious.
CAD is the most common type of heart disease. It is the leading cause
of death in the United States in both men and women.
www.healthline.bravehost.com
-- |
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:16 am Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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coronary wrote:
: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat prevents
: coronary
: artery disease? An American paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff is that they are
suggesting a very dubious way of increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats.
There are many practical ways to increase HDL that are known to be healthy
and so there is absolutely no sense of increasing saturated fat.
--
Juhana |
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monty1945@lycos.com
medicine forum addict
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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In the typical case of heart disease" in Western nations, for example,
what is occurring at the molecular level is known, for example:
"Macrophage cells, described as the garbage trucks of the blood, try to
carry away oxidatively damaged LDL. When macrophages get gummed up with
oxidized lipids, they "become bloated with partially digested
lipoprotein and globules of cholesterol" and form "foam cells," Salomon
said. Eventually foam cells develop into the atherosclerotic plaque
found in cardiovascular disease. "Macrophages are supposed to clean up
oxidatively damaged LDL but are covered with these toxic oxidized
lipids that bring the whole process to a grinding halt," Salomon said."
Source: http://www.cwru.edu/pubaff/univcomm/2002/june/cholesterol.htm
Avoid oxidized cholesterol and you avoid the problem. A highly
saturated fat, like coconut oil, will not oxidize cholesterol. A
highly unsaturated one, like lard (whch is often classified as a
"saturated fat" in various studies) will do this kind of damage,
particularly the way most Westerners use it in cooking. |
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Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | In the typical case of heart disease" in Western nations, for example,
what is occurring at the molecular level is known, for example:
"Macrophage cells, described as the garbage trucks of the blood, try to
carry away oxidatively damaged LDL. When macrophages get gummed up with
oxidized lipids, they "become bloated with partially digested
lipoprotein and globules of cholesterol" and form "foam cells," Salomon
said. Eventually foam cells develop into the atherosclerotic plaque
found in cardiovascular disease. "Macrophages are supposed to clean up
oxidatively damaged LDL but are covered with these toxic oxidized
lipids that bring the whole process to a grinding halt," Salomon said."
Source: http://www.cwru.edu/pubaff/univcomm/2002/june/cholesterol.htm
Avoid oxidized cholesterol and you avoid the problem. A highly
saturated fat, like coconut oil, will not oxidize cholesterol. A
highly unsaturated one, like lard (whch is often classified as a
"saturated fat" in various studies) will do this kind of damage,
particularly the way most Westerners use it in cooking.
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Another slow day on your group? |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | coronary wrote:
: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat prevents
: coronary
: artery disease? An American paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff is that they are
suggesting a very dubious way of increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats.
There are many practical ways to increase HDL that are known to be healthy
and so there is absolutely no sense of increasing saturated fat.
|
I don't see any weakness in that at all. I do see great weakness in the
research they discuss, however. The conclusion from the abstract of the
study described in the editorial is:
"Conclusions: In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake,
a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of
coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a
greater progression."
Again though, this is an observational study, with all the deficiencies that
implies.
The 1954 study mentioned in the editorial would be interesting to read. At
least it was a randomized trial of moderate duration. Does anyone know how
to find a copy on the web?
The ref:
Lancet. 1972 Oct 21;2(7782):835-8.
Effect of cholesterol-lowering diet on mortality from coronary heart-disease
and other causes. A twelve-year clinical trial in men and women.
Miettinen M, Turpeinen O, Karvonen MJ, Elosuo R, Paavilainen E.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:: coronary wrote:
::
::: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
::: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat
::: prevents coronary
::: artery disease? An American paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
::
:: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff is that
:: they are suggesting a very dubious way of increasing HDL -
:: increasing saturated fats. There are many practical ways to increase
:: HDL that are known to be healthy and so there is absolutely no sense
:: in increasing saturated fat.
:
: I don't see any weakness in that at all. I do see great weakness in
: the research they discuss, however. The conclusion from the abstract
: of the study described in the editorial is:
:
: "Conclusions: In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat
: intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less
: progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake
: is associated with a greater progression."
It is typical of low-carb proponents to cherry-pick studies to support their
position. Finding some exceptions or paradoxes does not change the fact that
weight of evidence is still against saturated fat.
: Again though, this is an observational study, with all the
: deficiencies that implies.
:
: The 1954 study mentioned in the editorial would be interesting to
: read. At least it was a randomized trial of moderate duration. Does
: anyone know how to find a copy on the web?
:
: The ref:
:
: Lancet. 1972 Oct 21;2(7782):835-8.
:
: Effect of cholesterol-lowering diet on mortality from coronary
: heart-disease and other causes. A twelve-year clinical trial in men
: and women.
:
: Miettinen M, Turpeinen O, Karvonen MJ, Elosuo R, Paavilainen E.
The above study is mentioned often. I tried to find it, but it seems that it
is not available online.
--
Juhana |
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monty1945@lycos.com
medicine forum addict
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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Here is a report of an experiment that demonstrates how dangerous these
highly unsaturated oils are and how they can destroy every important
molecule in your body. It is basic science, and thus there is no need
for "suggestive" studies that are based upon false assumptions or
ludicrous classifcations (such as calling the lard of today a
"saturated fat").
http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | Avoid oxidized cholesterol and you avoid the problem. A highly
saturated fat, like coconut oil, will not oxidize cholesterol. A
highly unsaturated one, like lard (whch is often classified as a
"saturated fat" in various studies) will do this kind of damage,
particularly the way most Westerners use it in cooking.
|
Will you give it a rest with the lard already? It is NOT a highly
unsaturated fat! It is 40% saturated for crying out loud. It IS
stable and even contains an antioxidant.
Monounsaturated fats are pretty neutral so stop harping on lard, olive
oil, etc. when they CAN resist oxidative damage up to a certain
temperature.
Veggie and seed oils OTOH, ARE highly unstable and polyunsaturated and
should definitely be avoided at all costs. But please, stop slamming
lard and pushing coconut oil all the time. It definitely hurts your
credibility. |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a report of an experiment that demonstrates how dangerous these
highly unsaturated oils are and how they can destroy every important
molecule in your body. It is basic science, and thus there is no need
for "suggestive" studies that are based upon false assumptions or
ludicrous classifcations (such as calling the lard of today a
"saturated fat").
http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html
|
That site is about using polyunsaturated fats in frying. No one in his
right mind would suggest such use.
--
Juhana |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:51 am Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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Juhana Harju wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html
That site is about using polyunsaturated fats in frying.
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Yes, and its harmful effects.
No one in his
| Quote: | right mind would suggest such use.
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They and he are not suggesting it. |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:04 am Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Juhana Harju wrote:
http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html
That site is about using polyunsaturated fats in frying.
Yes, and its harmful effects.
No one in his
right mind would suggest such use.
They and he are not suggesting it.
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Sometimes I feel that some people in this newsgroup are shadow-boxing
with an imaginary enemy. To my knowledge no one in this group is
recommending the use of polyunsaturated oils in frying.
--
Juhana |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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Juhana Harju wrote:
| Quote: | Sometimes I feel that some people in this newsgroup are shadow-boxing
with an imaginary enemy. To my knowledge no one in this group is
recommending the use of polyunsaturated oils in frying.
Juhana
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And no one in the article is recommending it either.
English must not be your first language. |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Juhana Harju wrote:
Sometimes I feel that some people in this newsgroup are shadow-boxing
with an imaginary enemy. To my knowledge no one in this group is
recommending the use of polyunsaturated oils in frying.
Juhana
And no one in the article is recommending it either.
English must not be your first language.
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No, it is not. It is interesting that you brought it up. You are the
first person to pay attention to my language although I know that I
have made numerous mistakes all the time. I have been posting to this
group for two years.
--
Juhana |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject:
Re: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
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Juhana Harju wrote:
| Quote: | English must not be your first language.
No, it is not. It is interesting that you brought it up. You are the
first person to pay attention to my language although I know that I
have made numerous mistakes all the time. I have been posting to this
group for two years.
|
It has nothing to do with your writing or language. It has to do with
how you interpreted the article...and you definitely misconstrued it.
But no harm done.
Cheers |
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