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Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs?
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Starlight
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:17 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 01:47:07 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<mortschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE> posted:


Quote:

If you want to know what has truly served me well as a nurse, it was the social
sciences: psychology and sociology. I've used what I learned there pretty much
daily at work.

Agree that psyche has helped, although I thought most of it was a
bunch of bull. Wink Think I've probably used Nutrition more than
anything as a home health nurse. A lot has changed on that topic
since nursing school, but it was one of the few courses I enjoyed back
them.
Since I got my degree at a Catholic college, I also had to take Old
Testament and another religion course I've since forgotten. Those,
along with the piano and European history courses, helped me become a
much better nurse....not.
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Candide
medicine forum addict


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

"Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
news:44a077dc$0$9921$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
Quote:
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:tYXng.10972$6d1.6082@trndny09...

---snippy---
It has been my experience then and from what am hearing now the
increased emphasis on math and science, especially organic chemistry
is
causing many pre-nursing students grief. Some colleges have organic
chem. just for nursing students (organic chem. lite), other schools
students must sit in the same class as pre-med, and other students.
I'd
rather sit through two semesters of med dose calc, than one of
organic
chemistry. *LOL*

I must admit to having no sympathy for people who don't get "A" in all
their
chemistry courses. I suppose that this makes me a bad person, but I
don't
care. I sat in the front with all the other nerds, and one of the
best
parts was watching some of the would be pre-med students cry in
public. Why
watch "Survivor"? An eighty-five year old was taking the course at
the same
time, for personal enrichment.

Earle that is not fair. Some just cannot grasp science easily, just as
some cannot grasp basic algerbra needed for Med Dose Calc.
Quote:

But an interesting fact is that one can get a BSN or even an advance
practice MSN in Colorado, without having taken ANY college chemistry
course.
One program specifies that "a lab course in a natural science" is a
prereq.
This can be geology.

We do get some out of state nursing students, for this very reason.
;^)

Earle

Think the push for all ADN/diploma students to take OC comes from the
same camp pushing for the mandatory BSN. Years ago most all BSN programs
required OC, whereas few ADN/diploma schools did, now more and more of
the later are revised their programs to included Organic Chemistry. Many
colleges/universities have responded by creating an Organic Chemistry
"lite" which is not as fast paced/in depth as pre-med,chemistry, and
some science majors take.

Think the problem is that even in this day and age, many girls still do
not take many science classes in high school, and or are not too keen on
the subject. If one has not taken General Chemistry, then one cannot
take Organic, in college until the pre-requisites have been met.

Candide
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Candide
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Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

<Hawki63@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Mk%ng.73301$4L1.12210@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:c2Yng.817$%67.311@trndny02...





"Norminn" <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bLXng.12867$o4.2043@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
clipped
Now, I didn't go through a diploma program but I'm told this is
the
deal: they
get the same two years worth of classes and clinical as ADN
students. Then they

I am diploma grad, and didn't come close to getting the stuff that
ADN
grads get. We didn't hit the floor running after graduation - that
was
done after the first year of school. Life was a bit different
then -
CPR invented the next year Surprised) We weren't allowed to start IV's or
place NG tubes. Watched a thousand or two, so when the time came
after
graduation, nothing to it but to do it.

I didn't get enough book learning to diagnose and prescribe, but I
can
assess the heck out of any patient, and not many died on my watch.
I
didn't tremble at the thought of calling a doc in the middle of the
night, because the thought of a patient going bad and not having
done
it
was what made me really tremble.

get that third year where they get to serve as unpaid nurses for
the
hospital.
Think of it as the same as the first year on the job for an ADN
nurse. At the
end of the third year they take the NCLEX. It's no wonder they
hit
the floor
running. They've already got a year on the job (where the real
training takes
place). The hospital loves them because they save $40,000 with
each
one they
have working for free.

My "tuition" for three years (not for EACH year) was $300. When I
had
my first child, four years after graduation, I was earning
$2.19/hr.
and
the hospital bill was a bit more than $300 for three days. No
insurance, but the hospital owner let me make monthly payments;
also
gave pay advances when things were tight Surprised)

Mr. A. Lincoln worked out an arrangement some years ago dealing
with
working for
free so I don't have to do it. Probably most other nursing
students
don't want
to do it either. Which is why the ADN programs are so popular.



There were many times we likened our schooling to slavery, but I
got
something that would cost - $200,000? - today. Free meals,
uniforms,
and surrogate mother Surprised)

Sounds like the Nursing Core! *LOL*

There's an idea worth bringing back.


Weekends were definitely not for beer blasts
or sport f------. Nobody snitched on anyone who made an error - we
reported our own.


Do not think today's girls/guys can understand just how "convent"
like
many nursing schools were. Many house mothers took the "purity"
think a
bit to heavy and sat on their girl's chests like you wouldn't
believe.

funny you should say that.....recently I was chatting with a
niece...almost
21..starting her 4th year at a U...really sweet gal

was telling her about housemothers..and having to sign in and
out...midnights on fri and sat...study hours from 7-9...no males above
the
first floor...etc etc...

she looked and me and said "but you were adults!!"

yeppers...good ole 60s ...she also cannot conceive of college dorms
that
aren't coed..your male friend can spend the night..you can drink booze
in
your room...yada yada yada

personally I would NOT want to be 21 now...

fascinating thread...

At least then there was the supposition among men that "good girls"
didn't, so they waited for signals. Today of course they want to know
before pre-dinner drinks are over what is going on. If it's not a sure
bet, chances are that date will be over very quickly. *LOL*

What today's girls are missing is the security and dare one say it
"gentility" of living in an all girls dorm/house. It gave one an easy
excuse for not having a date in (no matter how good-looking or repulsive
he was). It also kept one from getting into heavy situations, as almost
always often than not, someone would come down stairs breaking up the
mauling session. The final "good thing" was having one's house/room
mates check out your date while you finished getting ready, then report
back their findings! Long before the Internet, there was girl gossip.
*LOL*

Candide
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<Hawki63@sbcglobal.net
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:dw0og.1141$Bb.1040@trndny01...
Quote:


Hawki63@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:xr%ng.73303$4L1.8016@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:tYXng.10972$6d1.6082@trndny09...

Hawki63@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:NvXng.109239$H71.81309@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

editor@netpath.net> wrote in message
news:1151353580.120619.222090@r2g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Mortimer Schnerd, RN quoted someone else:
Two and a half to three years for an ADN? Not at my school.
We
had 44
units
to complete prior to the two years of nursing core courses (43
units).
I
graduated on May 30th.

and replied:
If you're going to screw around that much you might as well have
gotten
your
BSN.


I agree....

however...doesn't it take actually 5 years to get a BSN if you
start
right
out of high school?? things may have changed...but in "my"
prehistoric
days...college students didn't declare a major til after 2
years...thusly..it actually took 5 years to get in all the nursing
BS
(oops..meant the BAD BS)

Using Hunter College as a model,

ahhh...a fellow New Yorker!!!



wait wait wait...I meant NYState....born in the Bronx and raised in
Westchester ....

so yes I DO remember at least hearing about the NYC schools...I actually
went to school in Poughkeepsie...tho my sis did her Peds rotation at
Columbia Pres

had a cousin spent a year in a full body cast at Hosp for Special Surgery
....oh prior to 1950....wow...now we ARE dating ourselves??

I relocated to Calif in 68...still have sibs and such in NY...tho..

don't know answers to your other ??....tho I agree Bellevue had a great
rep...so did LA County....ahhhh diploma schools
Quote:

Oh yeas! Remember Flower and Fifth? "Lenox Hill"?, Hospital for Special
Surgery? St. Vincent's in the Village? All great hospital programs long
gone. Lenox Hill just had a huge retirement do for a number of former
students of the school that are retiring. Last of the breed, and
probably never could have imagined how the profession was going to
change when they first started out.


I was thinking of the program...I think that linked Columbia Pres and
maybe
NYU....that was a total of 5 years

yikes...Hunter College was my choice if I chose teaching instead of
nursing

Hunter/Bellevue nursing program has long been the crème de la crème of
NYC nursing schools. Competition was tight to get in, and grads highly
sought after. Today one can have a 4.0 or better and still wait several
semesters after completing pre-nursing to gain entry. It was one of
their students my sent to "observe" my friend (she works at Bellevue).
They used to look so cute in their uniforms, but now they wear lab
coats, IIRC.

Does Columbia still have an undergraduate nursing program? Thought it
was MSN and PhD? So many of NYC schools closed their door/stopped
offering nursing programs. City College comes to mind, and think Mount
Saint Vincent is next (they are no longer on the NLN accredited list,
and St Vinny's is in bankruptcy). Shame, St. Vinny's in the Village had
the coolest location, IMHO.



of course I chose the latter cuz I was one of 8..and so diploma school
was
on the cheap


Frugal is the word, dear, not "cheap" *LOL*


one spends 2 years taking pre-nursing
classes, then during the final semester of pre-nursing classes,
apply to
be formally accepted into the BSN nursing program which is two years
long. This is the "right out of high school" model, for students who
just graduated from high school as well as those without previous
college credits. Pre-nursing can become longer if one did not take
the
required math,English and perhaps science courses in high school to
or
pass the "placement" exams required by most college/universities.
For
instance one could not take the required statistics course at our
college unless one had completed a certain level of algebra in high
school, or passed the college's math placement exam with a certain
enough grade. Those lacking would have to take and pass the "no
credit"
math/English classes before being allowed to take the required
courses.
All this sets one back at least one semester, sometimes two.

Next problem is that in many colleges pre-nursing classes are shared
by
other health disciplines as well. So you have potential student
nurses,
dieticians and others all competing for the same slots. If you
cannot
register for the proper classes, again one is put back a semester.
Some
girls went to other schools to take the courses and applied to have
the
credits transferred.

It has been my experience then and from what am hearing now the
increased emphasis on math and science, especially organic chemistry
is
causing many pre-nursing students grief. Some colleges have organic
chem. just for nursing students (organic chem. lite), other schools
students must sit in the same class as pre-med, and other students.
I'd
rather sit through two semesters of med dose calc, than one of
organic
chemistry. *LOL*

The problem is that students know by several weeks into a semester
if
they are going to pass with the right grade for entry into the
nursing
program. Those that aren't on track to pass, often drop out to avoid
a
"F", which might keep them out of the program. This again sets one
back
a semester.

Finally as others have posted, it has almost become impossible to
gain
entry into some programs these days. Students with 4.0s and above
are
twisting in the wind waiting for entry, this means one will graduate
that much later.

of course this was well before nursing decided to shoot itself in
the
foot
be "allowing" bachelor's graduates to upgrade into a nursing major
./...."bridge" programs think they were called..


perhaps...and I am sure many many do well....as an NP tho...it sorta
churns
me to work alongside "bridge" grads that got a master's in nsg in
about 2
years.....ie...had never done bedside nsg or anything basic....

Yes, but think of how much easier it was for you because of your
previous nursing experience. I can see second degree BSN students, doing
"ok" since they basically are only skipping pre-nursing, but to take on
getting a MSN when one has not the slightest clue about nursing, has to
be daunting.


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<Hawki63@sbcglobal.net
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:21 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:kV0og.2230$H32.1344@trndny06...
Quote:
Hawki63@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Mk%ng.73301$4L1.12210@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:c2Yng.817$%67.311@trndny02...





"Norminn" <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bLXng.12867$o4.2043@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
clipped
Now, I didn't go through a diploma program but I'm told this is
the
deal: they
get the same two years worth of classes and clinical as ADN
students. Then they

I am diploma grad, and didn't come close to getting the stuff that
ADN
grads get. We didn't hit the floor running after graduation - that
was
done after the first year of school. Life was a bit different
then -
CPR invented the next year Surprised) We weren't allowed to start IV's or
place NG tubes. Watched a thousand or two, so when the time came
after
graduation, nothing to it but to do it.

I didn't get enough book learning to diagnose and prescribe, but I
can
assess the heck out of any patient, and not many died on my watch.
I
didn't tremble at the thought of calling a doc in the middle of the
night, because the thought of a patient going bad and not having
done
it
was what made me really tremble.

get that third year where they get to serve as unpaid nurses for
the
hospital.
Think of it as the same as the first year on the job for an ADN
nurse. At the
end of the third year they take the NCLEX. It's no wonder they
hit
the floor
running. They've already got a year on the job (where the real
training takes
place). The hospital loves them because they save $40,000 with
each
one they
have working for free.

My "tuition" for three years (not for EACH year) was $300. When I
had
my first child, four years after graduation, I was earning
$2.19/hr.
and
the hospital bill was a bit more than $300 for three days. No
insurance, but the hospital owner let me make monthly payments;
also
gave pay advances when things were tight Surprised)

Mr. A. Lincoln worked out an arrangement some years ago dealing
with
working for
free so I don't have to do it. Probably most other nursing
students
don't want
to do it either. Which is why the ADN programs are so popular.



There were many times we likened our schooling to slavery, but I
got
something that would cost - $200,000? - today. Free meals,
uniforms,
and surrogate mother Surprised)

Sounds like the Nursing Core! *LOL*

There's an idea worth bringing back.


Weekends were definitely not for beer blasts
or sport f------. Nobody snitched on anyone who made an error - we
reported our own.


Do not think today's girls/guys can understand just how "convent"
like
many nursing schools were. Many house mothers took the "purity"
think a
bit to heavy and sat on their girl's chests like you wouldn't
believe.

funny you should say that.....recently I was chatting with a
niece...almost
21..starting her 4th year at a U...really sweet gal

was telling her about housemothers..and having to sign in and
out...midnights on fri and sat...study hours from 7-9...no males above
the
first floor...etc etc...

she looked and me and said "but you were adults!!"

yeppers...good ole 60s ...she also cannot conceive of college dorms
that
aren't coed..your male friend can spend the night..you can drink booze
in
your room...yada yada yada

personally I would NOT want to be 21 now...

fascinating thread...

At least then there was the supposition among men that "good girls"
didn't, so they waited for signals. Today of course they want to know
before pre-dinner drinks are over what is going on. If it's not a sure
bet, chances are that date will be over very quickly. *LOL*

What today's girls are missing is the security and dare one say it
"gentility" of living in an all girls dorm/house. It gave one an easy
excuse for not having a date in (no matter how good-looking or repulsive
he was). It also kept one from getting into heavy situations, as almost
always often than not, someone would come down stairs breaking up the
mauling session. The final "good thing" was having one's house/room
mates check out your date while you finished getting ready, then report
back their findings! Long before the Internet, there was girl gossip.
*LOL*

Candide



OMG...the visuals this brings up!!!

I actually used to LOVE weekends in the dorm...esp those when one didn't
work..so peaceful..sleeping late..windows open and the music blaring.....

without a doubt...the security......


ahhhh
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Truckdude
medicine forum addict


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE> wrote in message
news:f3Wng.3377$so3.1587@southeast.rr.com...
Quote:
Two and a half to three years for an ADN? Not at my school. We had 44
units
to complete prior to the two years of nursing core courses (43 units). I
graduated on May 30th.


If you're going to screw around that much you might as well have gotten
your BSN. My thinking was to rejoin the work force ASAP. I was't living
on the largess of Mom and Dad any more. I needed to support myself and I
did. 21 months from stat to finish.

Obviously, I don't consider my time spent as "screwing around." I threw it
out there so that people can reevaluate their opinion of an ADN graduate.
And there was lots o' clinical, with OR as the only observation time.
Sounds like we had similar circumstances. I worked full-time during the
pre-reqs and refinanced the mortgage to get through the 2 years of core
courses.





Quote:

Like Hawk63, we were called graduate nurses and paid RN pay from our first
day on the job on May 25th. I took the NCLEX when it was first offered
(in July). We were in the last class to take the NCLEX on paper. Results
didn't come out until October. If I had failed, my pay and position would
have been degraded to CNA-II. As it was, I passed but no pay raise
either.

My first paycheck as a floor nurse was at $13.35 an hour. The amazing
part to me was now they were giving me money to do what I'd been doing all
along, only now I didn't have to study before I showed up.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE

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Norminn
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

Earle Horton wrote:
Quote:
"Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:tYXng.10972$6d1.6082@trndny09...

---snippy---

It has been my experience then and from what am hearing now the
increased emphasis on math and science, especially organic chemistry is
causing many pre-nursing students grief. Some colleges have organic
chem. just for nursing students (organic chem. lite), other schools
students must sit in the same class as pre-med, and other students. I'd
rather sit through two semesters of med dose calc, than one of organic
chemistry. *LOL*


I must admit to having no sympathy for people who don't get "A" in all their
chemistry courses. I suppose that this makes me a bad person, but I don't
care. I sat in the front with all the other nerds, and one of the best

OB and org. chem. were the bane of our long-ago class .. in HS it was
plain chemistry. I loved chemistry, I "got it" (an iffy thing then Surprised).
But, then, we are people people and org. chem. is so "bookish" Surprised) I
think the disdain for OB in our class was due to the truly peculiar
instructors who were the two people most unlikely to ever bear a child.
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Norminn
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Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

Starlight wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 21:03:21 GMT, "Candide" <PityMePines@anywhere.com
posted:



It has been my experience then and from what am hearing now the
increased emphasis on math and science, especially organic chemistry is
causing many pre-nursing students grief. Some colleges have organic
chem. just for nursing students (organic chem. lite), other schools
students must sit in the same class as pre-med, and other students. I'd
rather sit through two semesters of med dose calc, than one of organic
chemistry. *LOL*



I despised Organic Chemistry, plus the professor had a very heavy
German accent so I was lost from day 1. Toward the end of the
quarter, I asked what I could do to get my D- up to a passing grade so
I could stay in the nursing program. She told me I knew as much
Organic Chemistry as a nurse needed to know, and gave me a C in the
course, bless her heart!
Thankfully the Microbiology professor, who had an even heavier
accent, was equally as charitable. We nurses laughed for years
about the "shits on my sheets" we thought she was saying for
schizomycetes.
Becky

Scared me for a moment - my German Org. Chem. prof' was a cute little
guy who stamped his feet in frustration at our apparent immunity to
knowledge of his wonderful part of the universe Surprised) My HS physics
teacher had a Spanish accent, as completely foreign at the time as the
subject was to me.
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editor@netpath.net
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

Hawki63@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Quote:
OMG....a soul older than me....remember my first RN job paid $2.25 an hour

But what were LIVING COSTS then? I remember (late 1960s) when my
father could buy - new - a full-size, reasonably-well-equipped, Ford
for around $4,000.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
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<Hawki63@sbcglobal.net
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

<editor@netpath.net> wrote in message
news:1151421660.899284.46210@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hawki63@sbcglobal.net wrote:
OMG....a soul older than me....remember my first RN job paid $2.25 an
hour

But what were LIVING COSTS then? I remember (late 1960s) when my
father could buy - new - a full-size, reasonably-well-equipped, Ford
for around $4,000.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com


oh for sure no comparision...shared a 2 bedroom apt for $100 a month...my
first car...64 Corvair $1000 (used)...etc etc...
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editor@netpath.net
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

Hawki63@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Quote:
OMG....a soul older than me....remember my first RN job paid $2.25 an
hour

quoted me:
Quote:
But what were LIVING COSTS then? I remember (late 1960s) when my
father could buy - new - a full-size, reasonably-well-equipped, Ford
for around $4,000.

and replied:
Quote:
oh for sure no comparision...shared a 2 bedroom apt for $100 a month...my
first car...64 Corvair $1000 (used)...etc etc...

I'm 46 - and I remember when gasoline was 28 cents a gallon when I
was 12. Costs of nondeferrable-purchase things - local taxes, state
taxes, gasoline, diesel, prescriptions, college tuition, college texts
- have SOARED in the past five years, far faster than the Consumer
Price Index.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

editor@netpath.net wrote:
Quote:
I'm 46 - and I remember when gasoline was 28 cents a gallon when I
was 12. Costs of nondeferrable-purchase things - local taxes, state
taxes, gasoline, diesel, prescriptions, college tuition, college texts
- have SOARED in the past five years, far faster than the Consumer
Price Index.




My first job where I actually had to fill out an application was as an orderly
at the local hospital. I was 17 years old, a junior in high school. It paid
the grand sum of $1.15 and hour. By the time I quit a year and a half later,
I'd gotten two raises and brought it all the way up to $1.55 per hour. I was
rolling in dough.

They were having price wars at the local gas stations and I used to regularly
buy gas at 24.9 cents per gallon. Two years later the big gas shortage hit
with lines going down the street and the price went all the way up to around 75
cents a gallon. We were all in shock. Fortunately I was in college and didn't
have any wheels anyway.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
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<Hawki63@sbcglobal.net
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

<editor@netpath.net> wrote in message
news:1151433156.331223.292270@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hawki63@sbcglobal.net wrote:
OMG....a soul older than me....remember my first RN job paid $2.25 an
hour

quoted me:
But what were LIVING COSTS then? I remember (late 1960s) when my
father could buy - new - a full-size, reasonably-well-equipped, Ford
for around $4,000.

and replied:
oh for sure no comparision...shared a 2 bedroom apt for $100 a month...my
first car...64 Corvair $1000 (used)...etc etc...

I'm 46 - and I remember when gasoline was 28 cents a gallon when I
was 12. Costs of nondeferrable-purchase things - local taxes, state
taxes, gasoline, diesel, prescriptions, college tuition, college texts
- have SOARED in the past five years, far faster than the Consumer
Price Index.

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com


hey ,,,I remember our first TV...black and white...early 50is

yikes
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Martyn H
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

Candide wrote:
Quote:
Was chatting with a friend yesterday who works in one of the larger
hospitals in our area about the usual suspects, and talk quickly came
around to nursing students/school programs. My friend was "assigned" a
student last week who was supposed to do nothing for the duration but
"observe", which one gathers is pretty much common practice these days
as the emphasis in nursing education has titled towards academics vs.
practical.


certain when i was pre-reg - , in the UK, between 5 and 8 years ago ,
practice placement outcomes were at 5 levels with level 1 being
observational exposure to an area of practice and level 5 being at or
about the minimum level one would expect from the RN...

Quote:
The upshot from what one is hearing and sees is now not only is it the
BSN grads arriving on the floors with tons of theory but little direct
patient care skills, but many Associate grads as well. IMHO the
decreased emphasis on clinical in favour of academics contributes to the
seemingly high amount of new grads who arrive on the floors and when
being acquainted with their duties, bolt for the door ranting " I didn't
go to nursing school for this". There seems to be some sort of idea
floating around that aides and techs are there to do all the grunt
work/direct patient care, while RNs give orders. Granted this is the way
the profession is moving (more because of the shortage of bedside RNs,
than anything else), but this does not seem right.

to some extent thisis howit happens, although perhaps not to the
extent that some people think - exposure to good role models on
pre-reg placement is impirtant as is sufficient clinicla exposure
-pre-registration to give the RN a good grounding in Nursing practice
- as witnessed by the EU requirements for 2300 hours in clinical
practice for all registrations ...

Quote:
Nursing skills are honed by time, if one never uses them or holds them
in low value then they never will become "second nature" enough for an
RN to feel competent in all situations. My asking about bringing diploma
programs back is because to date most produced some of the best nurses
around. Thoughts?

ensure that students have good pre-reg placements in terms of both
quality and quantity , introduce clinicla placements early i nthe
ocure and expect a gradual but continuning building up of skills
knowledge and experience - this is one very definite benefit of a
programme that doesn't try and fit 'generic' classes into theprogramme
and instead delivers all material in a way which fits in with a
holistic view of the programme and delivers academic input with a
definite Nursing or at least Health Care Professional slant ( i.e.
learning may be shared with Midwives, Physios, Radiographers,
Occupational Therapists, ODPs,Paramedics etc)
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Martyn H
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Bring Back Diploma/Hospital Based Nursing Programs? Reply with quote

Earle Horton wrote:
Quote:
Isn't the main argument against hospital-based programs expense? I mean, I
can argue all day long that I should be driving a new Mercedes, simply
because it is a "better car" than my ten year old Honda Civic, but that
doesn't mean that I could afford the payments. Similarly, society cannot
afford to give all nurses say 2,000 hours of clinical experience, before
they are even licensed.

why not ?


All EU states have a minimum practice placement requirement of 2300
hours in their pre-reg programmes
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