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Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:

Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.


True, but removal of the thimerosal from vaccines should reduce the
rates of autism as there would be less overall mercury exposure. So if
autism were a factor we would expect to see, at the very least, a small
drop in the cases of autism. rather, a modest increase was seen.


The reason is that mercury is found in wood preservatives, paints,
fungicides,
cosmetics, foods, seeds and in contaminated fish. The mercury castastrophe
in Minamata Bay, Japan, involved ingestion of methylmercury-contaminated
fish--it led to severe neurologic defects.

Yes, but to account for the data from this paper the amount of mercury
in the environment would have had to increase such that kids were now
being exposed to more mercury then before. As John and Jan like to
frequently remind us, kids often receive high doses of mercury during
vaccination courses. As such it is very difficult to see how there
could have been an equivalent increase in environmental mercury;
especially without such an increase being noticed. Certantly, none of
Canada's or Quebec environmental and health testing departments noted
such an increase.

Bryan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bryan,
Good points, however, I seem to recall reading articles indicating that
the amount of mercury in the environment is going higher every year.

You found them once, do it again, and post the URLs to support your claim.


If
Quote:
that is
true, don't you agree that it would have an effect on the statistics that
you mentioned in your recent posts.

No, since Mercury does not cause Autism.
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You don't need to spell it out--I understand your point. You know that you
can prove almost anything you wish to prove with statistics.

That is one of the standard dodges used by those who do not understand
valid and correct use of statistics.

Let's assume
that fish now contain higher levels of mercury than ever before.

Why? We have been REDUCING the levels of Mercury in pollution for many
years. I would assume that they are LESS, if anything.

That
would mean that the rates of autism would be higher in 2015 even if no
vaccines contained in thimerosal when those children that developed autism
were born.

Only if you assume that there is a link. What you are doing is called
circular reasoning.

Did the paper even mention the issue of mercury levels in fish?

Why would it?

In other words, there are other factors (eg mercury levels in fish)
involved that the paper did not mention. Do you see my point? The type of
mercury in fish is even more dangerous
than the type of mercury in thimerosal--but you already knew that.

True, that is one of the many things that I already knew. I also already
knew that there is no link between autism and mercury. Period.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You may believe that there is "no link between autism and mercury" but
that does NOT mean you are correct. I could believe that Bill Clinton came
from Mars but that would not mean that I am correct.

What utter bullshit you type. Not all opinions are created equal. Mine
are based on the irrefutable fact that the overwhelming evidence is that
there is no link between autism and mercury exposure.

Bill Clinton and Mars? There is no evidence for that. You use a bullshit
analogy.

The experts at FDA
Quote:
want to ban mercury from vaccines. Are you saying that you know MORE than
those experts?

You must have some degree of brain damage. We have been down this path
before. I pointed out, and Bryan proved, that the decision to remove
thimerosal from vaccines had more to do with affecting public
perceptions and preserving the herd effect (I assume that you have heard
of the herd effect and know its importance) than with any true safety
concerns.

You ought to check your memory (not at the door) before you type.

I agree with the experts at FDA--mercury should not be used
Quote:
in vaccines. I don't know whether or not it causes autism. As far as I
know, the experts are not certain as to the cause of autism.

The experts are examining one major area, i.e. genetics, something that
you acknowledged knowing nothing about. Do not feel bad, though, Geier
neglected to mention that cause when he proffered his testimony at a
Daubert hearing, and, he IS a geneticist. Imagine that.

If possible,
Quote:
try to find out if the level of mercury in fish is now higher or lower
than it was in the past.

Do your own homework. Frankly, Jason, I am tired of doing it for you,
and it is unethical. You will not learn anything unless you do it yourself.
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Quote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You don't need to spell it out--I understand your point. You know that you
can prove almost anything you wish to prove with statistics.

That is one of the standard dodges used by those who do not understand
valid and correct use of statistics.

Let's assume
Quote:
that fish now contain higher levels of mercury than ever before.

Why? We have been REDUCING the levels of Mercury in pollution for many
years. I would assume that they are LESS, if anything.

That
Quote:
would mean that the rates of autism would be higher in 2015 even if no
vaccines contained in thimerosal when those children that developed autism
were born.

Only if you assume that there is a link. What you are doing is called
circular reasoning.

Quote:
Did the paper even mention the issue of mercury levels in fish?

Why would it?

Quote:
In other words, there are other factors (eg mercury levels in fish)
involved that the paper did not mention. Do you see my point? The type of
mercury in fish is even more dangerous
than the type of mercury in thimerosal--but you already knew that.

True, that is one of the many things that I already knew. I also already
knew that there is no link between autism and mercury. Period.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You may believe that there is "no link between autism and mercury" but
that does NOT mean you are correct. I could believe that Bill Clinton came
from Mars but that would not mean that I am correct. The experts at FDA
want to ban mercury from vaccines. Are you saying that you know MORE than
those experts? I agree with the experts at FDA--mercury should not be used
in vaccines. I don't know whether or not it causes autism. As far as I
know, the experts are not certain as to the cause of autism. If possible,
try to find out if the level of mercury in fish is now higher or lower
than it was in the past.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Quote:

Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.


True, but removal of the thimerosal from vaccines should reduce the
rates of autism as there would be less overall mercury exposure. So if
autism were a factor we would expect to see, at the very least, a small
drop in the cases of autism. rather, a modest increase was seen.


Quote:
The reason is that mercury is found in wood preservatives, paints,
fungicides,
cosmetics, foods, seeds and in contaminated fish. The mercury castastrophe
in Minamata Bay, Japan, involved ingestion of methylmercury-contaminated
fish--it led to severe neurologic defects.

Yes, but to account for the data from this paper the amount of mercury
in the environment would have had to increase such that kids were now
being exposed to more mercury then before. As John and Jan like to
frequently remind us, kids often receive high doses of mercury during
vaccination courses. As such it is very difficult to see how there
could have been an equivalent increase in environmental mercury;
especially without such an increase being noticed. Certantly, none of
Canada's or Quebec environmental and health testing departments noted
such an increase.

Bryan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bryan,
Good points, however, I seem to recall reading articles indicating that
the amount of mercury in the environment is going higher every year. If
that is
true, don't you agree that it would have an effect on the statistics that
you mentioned in your recent posts.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Bryan Heit wrote:
Quote:
Mark Probert wrote:
Bryan Heit wrote:

HCN wrote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8kemg$r13$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is
no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417


Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/


...

Is this it?
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139?


Yep. Sure is.

Amazing how one table and two little graphs can completely destroy a
myth. To quote:

"Third, our findings clearly failed to detect any relationship
between thimerosal exposure and rates of PDDs."

Figure 2 is particularly interesting - rates of autism go up AFTER
thimerasol is removed from vaccines.


Bryan, do not understate the methodology. They may have reported only
one table and two little graphs, but they analyzed the numbers
extensively using many methods.

I never meant to disparage the authors results. I am well aware of
their reputation in the autism field; in fact, I've worked quite closely
with a member of their research group.

I was simply pointing out, sarcastically, that in a mere 3 figures they
have completely obliterated any concept of autism being linked to
mercury in vaccines. 3 figures, and a few pages of text. And it takes
down all of John and Jan's hundreds of pages of material.

As for the methodology, it is quite simple, but that is often the best
kind. You've got a group of kids from a time when there was mercury in
their vaccines, and a group from a time when there wasn't mercury.
Everything else about them is the same - same environment, immunization
schedule, population, etc. About as robust a group as you can get. And
the results from that - no link.

Pretty damming for the anti-vax crowd...

Does Fombonne wear asbestos underwear? That seems to be where the
anti-vac liars are going.

It parallels the findings earlier this year that there is no autism
epidemic, which is something that Fombonne has been saying for years (he
agrees with me, and you know what that means.... )
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
In article <qdxrg.33$gt6.0@fe12.lga>, Mark Probert
markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.

If you make that assumption, i.e. mercury exposure causes autism, and
the exposure went DOWN after removal from Thimerosal, you should see a
DECREASE or leveling of the rates. The paper shows that the rates
continued to rise, thus showing that mercury exposure does not cause or
affect the incidence of autism.

If you are still unclear on this point, let me know, and I will spell it
out for you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You don't need to spell it out--I understand your point. You know that you
can prove almost anything you wish to prove with statistics.

That is one of the standard dodges used by those who do not understand
valid and correct use of statistics.

Let's assume
Quote:
that fish now contain higher levels of mercury than ever before.

Why? We have been REDUCING the levels of Mercury in pollution for many
years. I would assume that they are LESS, if anything.

That
Quote:
would mean that the rates of autism would be higher in 2015 even if no
vaccines contained in thimerosal when those children that developed autism
were born.

Only if you assume that there is a link. What you are doing is called
circular reasoning.

Quote:
Did the paper even mention the issue of mercury levels in fish?

Why would it?

Quote:
In other words, there are other factors (eg mercury levels in fish)
involved that the paper did not mention. Do you see my point? The type of
mercury in fish is even more dangerous
than the type of mercury in thimerosal--but you already knew that.

True, that is one of the many things that I already knew. I also already
knew that there is no link between autism and mercury. Period.


Quote:
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Mark Probert wrote:
Quote:
Bryan Heit wrote:

HCN wrote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8kemg$r13$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no
link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417


Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/


...

Is this it?
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139?


Yep. Sure is.

Amazing how one table and two little graphs can completely destroy a
myth. To quote:

"Third, our findings clearly failed to detect any relationship between
thimerosal exposure and rates of PDDs."

Figure 2 is particularly interesting - rates of autism go up AFTER
thimerasol is removed from vaccines.


Bryan, do not understate the methodology. They may have reported only
one table and two little graphs, but they analyzed the numbers
extensively using many methods.

I never meant to disparage the authors results. I am well aware of
their reputation in the autism field; in fact, I've worked quite closely
with a member of their research group.

I was simply pointing out, sarcastically, that in a mere 3 figures they
have completely obliterated any concept of autism being linked to
mercury in vaccines. 3 figures, and a few pages of text. And it takes
down all of John and Jan's hundreds of pages of material.

As for the methodology, it is quite simple, but that is often the best
kind. You've got a group of kids from a time when there was mercury in
their vaccines, and a group from a time when there wasn't mercury.
Everything else about them is the same - same environment, immunization
schedule, population, etc. About as robust a group as you can get. And
the results from that - no link.

Pretty damming for the anti-vax crowd...

Bryan
Back to top
Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.


True, but removal of the thimerosal from vaccines should reduce the
rates of autism as there would be less overall mercury exposure. So if
autism were a factor we would expect to see, at the very least, a small
drop in the cases of autism. rather, a modest increase was seen.


Quote:
The reason is that mercury is found in wood preservatives, paints, fungicides,
cosmetics, foods, seeds and in contaminated fish. The mercury castastrophe
in Minamata Bay, Japan, involved ingestion of methylmercury-contaminated
fish--it led to severe neurologic defects.

Yes, but to account for the data from this paper the amount of mercury
in the environment would have had to increase such that kids were now
being exposed to more mercury then before. As John and Jan like to
frequently remind us, kids often receive high doses of mercury during
vaccination courses. As such it is very difficult to see how there
could have been an equivalent increase in environmental mercury;
especially without such an increase being noticed. Certantly, none of
Canada's or Quebec environmental and health testing departments noted
such an increase.

Bryan
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

In article <qdxrg.33$gt6.0@fe12.lga>, Mark Probert
<markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.

If you make that assumption, i.e. mercury exposure causes autism, and
the exposure went DOWN after removal from Thimerosal, you should see a
DECREASE or leveling of the rates. The paper shows that the rates
continued to rise, thus showing that mercury exposure does not cause or
affect the incidence of autism.

If you are still unclear on this point, let me know, and I will spell it
out for you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
You don't need to spell it out--I understand your point. You know that you
can prove almost anything you wish to prove with statistics. Let's assume
that fish now contain higher levels of mercury than ever before. That
would mean that the rates of autism would be higher in 2015 even if no
vaccines contained in thimerosal when those children that developed autism
were born. Did the paper even mention the issue of mercury levels in fish?
In other words, there are other factors (eg mercury levels in fish)
involved that the paper did not mention. Do you see my point? The type of
mercury in fish is even more dangerous
than the type of mercury in thimerosal--but you already knew that.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.

If you make that assumption, i.e. mercury exposure causes autism, and
the exposure went DOWN after removal from Thimerosal, you should see a
DECREASE or leveling of the rates. The paper shows that the rates
continued to rise, thus showing that mercury exposure does not cause or
affect the incidence of autism.

If you are still unclear on this point, let me know, and I will spell it
out for you.

Quote:
The reason is that mercury is found in wood preservatives, paints, fungicides,
cosmetics, foods, seeds and in contaminated fish. The mercury castastrophe
in Minamata Bay, Japan, involved ingestion of methylmercury-contaminated
fish--it led to severe neurologic defects.

It was preordained that you would bring that up.
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hello,
If mercury (regardless of the type) is the cause of autism, children would
continue to develop autism even if thimerosal was NEVER used in any
vaccines.
The reason is that mercury is found in wood preservatives, paints, fungicides,
cosmetics, foods, seeds and in contaminated fish. The mercury castastrophe
in Minamata Bay, Japan, involved ingestion of methylmercury-contaminated
fish--it led to severe neurologic defects.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to top
Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Bryan Heit wrote:
Quote:
Jan Drew wrote:
There's a paper in the wings which'll

eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no
link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417



Eric Fombonne AMA.


Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139



As for the safety, it is well established:


Established by whom??


Miscellaneous medical researchers and doctors around the world.



[ ]

There are hundreds more of these out there, showing it s safe. What
do you have to prove it's dangerous? Nothing more then adds for
products which supposedly remove the mercury.

I have science, you have adds. I

wonder who's more likely to be right. . .


Liar.

I have posted research.


Then re-post it for all of us to see. All I've seen from you are pages
from your little pet company. Nothing published in a peer-reviewed
scientific or medical journal.


Get lost. Liar. This is misc.health.alternative.

Ohh, I'm afraid now. Jan's got her panties in a knot and has told be to
get lost! And once again she's demonstrated just how out of it she is -
I'm not reading or posting to her messages in misc.health.alternative;
I'm seeing them in sci.med.immunology, and sci.med. It's ironic that
she thinks it's OK for her to spread her hate and lies to these
scientific groups, but then complains when we fire back.

Jan & John, I'll make you a deal; you limit your posts to your little
alternative medicine newsgroup, and I'll limit mine to the scientific
ones.

That would be a loss to mha.

You agree to that and you never need read my replies again.
Quote:
Otherwise, you can go screw yourself.

Bryan
Back to top
Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Bryan Heit wrote:
Quote:
HCN wrote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8kemg$r13$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no
link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417


Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/


...

Is this it?
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139?

Yep. Sure is.

Amazing how one table and two little graphs can completely destroy a
myth. To quote:

"Third, our findings clearly failed to detect any relationship between
thimerosal exposure and rates of PDDs."

Figure 2 is particularly interesting - rates of autism go up AFTER
thimerasol is removed from vaccines.

Bryan, do not understate the methodology. They may have reported only
one table and two little graphs, but they analyzed the numbers
extensively using many methods.

Also, remember that Mrs. Dr. Fombonne is a well recognized
epidemiologist on her own merits.

The authors implications:

There are several important implications of this study.

First, our study adds additional evidence deriving from a large,
population-based survey that PDDs are one of the most common
developmental disorders in young children. With a prevalence of 0.6% to
0.7%, the service implications are straightforward.

Second, as in other recent studies, factors such as broadening of
diagnostic criteria, improved awareness about the disorder, changes in
official social and educational policies, and improved access to
services are certainly the primary driving force underlying the
increasing prevalence figures.7 Yet, the possibility that a real change
in the incidence could have occurred as well cannot be definitely ruled
out from existing data.

Third, our findings clearly failed to detect any relationship between
thimerosal exposure and rates of PDDs. These findings concur with those
from other similar ecological investigations34, 35 and of more
controlled epidemiological studies.25, 38 Previous negative studies,
especially those conducted in European countries, have sometimes been
criticized on the account that either the rates of PDDs were not as high
as those in North America, that the cumulative exposure to thimerosal
was much lower than that attained in the United States in the 1990s, or
both. This study avoids both pitfalls and is, therefore, very
informative for the North American public. In addition, the rate of
exposure varied from nil to very high levels of vaccine-derived
ethylmercury, allowing us to test for effects along the full range of
exposure and to detect possible threshold effects as well. All of the
results were negative.

Fourth, as in previous studies,25 no effect of MMR vaccine could be
detected on the risk of PDD. The trends went in opposite directions,
making it unlikely that even small effects applying to a small subset of
children would exist. Furthermore, this study added new evidence
suggesting that the 2-MMR dose schedule before age 2 years also had no
impact on rates of PDD.

Fifth, parents of children with PDD and the general public should be
made aware of the consistency of negative studies on the 2 hypotheses
linking risk of autism and immunizations. Children with autism and their
younger unaffected siblings should be vaccinated. Unvaccinated children
are at much higher risk of contracting measles and suffering from its
sometimes severe or lethal complications.71 There is no evidence for an
epidemiological association between ethylmercury and autism and *no
scientific basis for using chelation therapies, which can be dangerous.*
Decreasing MMR uptake in the British isles has led to more frequent
measles outbreaks of greater magnitude27 and to children's deaths.72

*Findings of negative studies are, indeed, more difficult to convey,
but, here, the evidence lies in the striking convergence of studies
accumulated by different groups, with different designs and in different
places.*

(Emphasis mine)

IOW, this study confirms the previous studies using a different
population with different (higher) exposures.

The only thing that the anti-vac liars can do is to attack the authors.

"Dr Fombonne's salary support is partially funded through the Canada
Research Chair Canadian Institutes for Health Research (to Dr Fombonne
and McGill University).

[...]

In the United Kingdom, Dr Fombonne has provided advice on the
epidemiology and clinical aspects of autism to scientists advising
parents, to vaccine manufacturers, and to several government committees
between 1998 and 2001. Since June 2004, Dr Fombonne has been an expert
witness for vaccine manufacturers in US thimerosal litigation. None of
his research has ever been funded by the industry."
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jan Drew wrote:
Quote:
There's a paper in the wings which'll

eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417


Eric Fombonne AMA.


Here's the actual paper. Now please tell us, how is it that no children
received thimerisal containing vaccines after 1996, no ethyl mercury was
detected in these children, and yet the rates of autism went UP
slightly? How exactly is that proof that thimerisal causes autism?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139



Quote:
As for the safety, it is well established:


Established by whom??


Miscellaneous medical researchers and doctors around the world.


Quote:

[ ]

There are hundreds more of these out there, showing it s safe. What do
you have to prove it's dangerous? Nothing more then adds for products
which supposedly remove the mercury.

I have science, you have adds. I

wonder who's more likely to be right. . .


Liar.

I have posted research.


Then re-post it for all of us to see. All I've seen from you are pages
from your little pet company. Nothing published in a peer-reviewed
scientific or medical journal.


Quote:
Get lost. Liar. This is misc.health.alternative.

Ohh, I'm afraid now. Jan's got her panties in a knot and has told be to
get lost! And once again she's demonstrated just how out of it she is -
I'm not reading or posting to her messages in misc.health.alternative;
I'm seeing them in sci.med.immunology, and sci.med. It's ironic that
she thinks it's OK for her to spread her hate and lies to these
scientific groups, but then complains when we fire back.

Jan & John, I'll make you a deal; you limit your posts to your little
alternative medicine newsgroup, and I'll limit mine to the scientific
ones. You agree to that and you never need read my replies again.
Otherwise, you can go screw yourself.

Bryan
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

HCN wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8kemg$r13$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll eliminate
any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/


...

Is this it?
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139?

Yep. Sure is.

Amazing how one table and two little graphs can completely destroy a
myth. To quote:

"Third, our findings clearly failed to detect any relationship between
thimerosal exposure and rates of PDDs."

Figure 2 is particularly interesting - rates of autism go up AFTER
thimerasol is removed from vaccines.

Bryan
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