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Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism
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Mark Probert
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1720

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines has no relationship to autism Reply with quote

Bryan Heit wrote:
Quote:
All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417


Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/

That would be by Dr. Eric Fombonne. Wikipedia:

Eric Fombonne
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Eric Fombonne, MD, FRCP, (b. 1954, Paris, France) is a professor of
psychiatry and an epidemiologist. Dr. Fombonne directs the child
psychiatry division at McGill University in Canada and the psychiatry
department at the Montreal Children’s Hospital, where he played a key
role in the launch of its autism clinic. Fombonne is also the Canada
Research Chair in child psychiatry. His research focuses on
epidemiological investigations of childhood mental illness and related
risk factors, with a particular focus on the epidemiology of autism.

Dr. Fombonne is a permanent member of a National Institute of Mental
Health (NIMH) study section and has been appointed to a special National
Institute of Health (NIH) advisory board for autism research programs.
In October, 2002 he became the president of the Association of Child and
Adolescent Psychiatry of Canada (APCAPC).

Research endeavors
Prior to his arrival in Canada, Fombonne was a researcher at the
Institute of Psychiatry, King's College in London, United Kingdom, where
he also worked as a child and adolescent psychiatrist at Maudsley
Hospital. While there, he and his colleagues were credited with
demonstrating that there is no epidemiological evidence suggesting a
link between the MMR vaccine with autism, as postulated by other
researchers including Dr. Andrew Wakefield. In a New Scientist article
he is quoted as having said "Trying to link this with MMR is complete
nonsense."

One of the major studies conducted by Fombonne examined depression,
which linked alcohol abuse to increased suicidal tendencies in boys,
using data on 6,000 subjects.

At McGill University, Fombonne has consolidated the Autism Spectrum
Disorder program in Montreal since his appointment there in 2001. He
currently heads an autism research program directed at evaluating
environmental risk factors, such as vaccines, and investigating genetic
risks associated with the heritability of autism. He has also been
involved in molecular genetic studies of clinical depression, and in
long-term outcome studies of child and adolescent depression.

Autism epidemic
Fombonne has reported that the prevalence of autism is 68 per 10,000, or
one in 147.

He has often been cited for representing the apparent rise in cases was
due to wider recognition of the condition, asserting that claims of an
'autism epidemic' are unfounded.[1] In 2001, he told the BBC "That rates
in recent surveys are substantially higher than 30 years ago merely
reflects the adoption of a much broader concept of autism, a recognition
of autism among normally intelligent subjects and an improved
identification of persons with autism."

[edit]
Quote
"Does this mean there is an epidemic of PDD? Not at all. We believe the
high rates we are seeing are the result of a combination of factors.
With improved recognition of the symptoms, diagnosis of PDD is now being
made more frequently and at an earlier age, thus increasing the number
of children being diagnosed. More rigorous methods used in recent
surveys have also improved our ability to find cases of PDD. The lower
rates found in two of the most recent studies, for instance, most
certainly reflect less sensitive case finding approaches."[2] Eric Fombonne
[edit]
Published works
Fombonne has written over 130 scientific reports in peer reviewed
journals and 25 book chapters. He was associate editor of the Journal of
Autism and Developmental Disorders from 1994 to 2003.

He is one of Canada's most respected researchers.
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Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

In article <e8kkfm$tcm$1@news.ucalgary.ca>, Bryan Heit
<bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Bryan,
Thanks for your post. I like your comments related to the following
information that I downloaded from a website.

I typed "Causes of autism" into the google search engine and could not find
any medical research reports related to the cause of autism.


A better place to look for information like this is a scientific search
engine like pubmed.gov or google scholar. This will limit your search
to scientific reports and medical studies, which'll get rid of most of
the chaff. Also, when searching for cause, the word scientists use is
"etiology". Don't ask me why; we just like big words. A search for
"etiology autism" (no quotes) in pubmed or google scholar should give
you at least 150 hits.

Also, many of the journals you'll find might charge access fees. If you
belong to a university you should have free access. If not feel free to
contact me direct (remove the nospam from my addy) and I can forward you
the relevant articles.

As for the causes of autism, we're not 100% sure. Firstly, autism is
not a single disease, but rather is a group of metal disorders which
have similar symptoms. For example, within "autism" there is Asperger's
disorder (a mild form) to spectrum disorders (severe autism). Depending
on what type of autism you look at, you'll find different things
associated with it. For example, many forms of autism appear to have
genetic links, or may be a result of chromosomal damage (similar damage
results in Downs syndrome). There is also some evidence that the immune
system is involved; perhaps by killing or damaging neurons. Lastly,
there is also evidence for hormonal misbalance. At this point it is not
clear if one, all, some, or none of these are the actual cause. Given
what we know about related metal disorders it is probably "all of the
above" plus some unknowns.

More importantly, several potential causes have been eliminated. The
idea that autism may be a result of vaccination has been thoroughly
debuked. Likewise, there doesn't seem to be a link between any
infectious diseases and autism.

Some links on cause of autism:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16786424&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16766163&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16738187&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16733293&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16721319&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16720216&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16698940&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16650750&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16634517&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16602035&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16569671&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16512358&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum


Some links disproving the autism/vaccination "link":

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15121295&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15241885&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15215496&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16255569&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16047931&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15595144&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15575416&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15530668&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342856&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342825&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342824&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum


Quote:
Heavy Metal Toxicity
Another finding in autistic children is a higher level of heavy metals
than normal.


As you can see in the links I posted above, this link has been
thoroughly debunked. An interesting study is coming out at the end of
this month in pediatrics. Long story short, in Quebec (part of Canada)
thimerosol was eliminated fro all childhood vaccines in the mid-1990's.
The authors of this study simply compared the rates of autism in
children who had received thimerosol-containing vaccines to those who
had received thimerosol-free vaccines. Long story short - there is no
link. To quote the lead author of the study:

"In fact, in my study the incidence of (autism) is higher in the years
when there was no mercury."


http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Quote:
One source of mercury exposure in early life is through
vaccinations.


A tiny fraction of the amount you'll get from eating fish. If you're
unfortunate enough to live in a highly industrialized area you'll also
get far more from pollution.


Quote:
Thimerosal is a preservative used in many vaccinations to
prevent contamination. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight. Shockingly
in 1999 the American Food and Drug Administration released a report
stating that children who received thimerosal containing vaccinations at
multiple visits may be exposed to more mercury than is recommended by
federal guidelines. In fact, children may have been receiving 100 times
the 0.1 micrograms per kilogram of daily exposure considered safe by most
authorities worldwide.


This is both true and false. The safety guidelines for mercury were
based on safe limits for metallic mercury and methyl-mercury (a salt of
mercury). Both of these compounds are highly toxic and are retained in
the body for long periods of time. However, thimerosol breaks down into
ethyl mercury; which is both far less toxic and is rapidly excreted from
the body.

Another thing about mercury poisoning is that it usually requires long
terms of exposure for mercury to have notable toxic effects. Given that
vaccines are very transient (and low-dose) routes of mercury exposure it
is highly unlikely that even an overdose of ethyl mercury via this route
would have much of an effect.


Quote:
This report has, however, resulted in positive
action being taken. Following the publication of the report, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) recommended that thimerosal be removed from all vaccines given to
children. A study of 2 US government databases in March 2006 shows that in
the 4 years following the recommended removal of thimerosal from childrens
vaccines, exposure of children to this toxin was reduced to almost zero,
and most importantly, new cases of autism actually began to decrease.


This claim is often made by the anti-vaccine crowds, but when asked to
furnish the studies to which this article refers, or to a study showing
a decrease in autism over the same period, they always fall silent.
I've spent a fair amount of time searching the medical literature and
cannot find these studies. Interestingly though, I have found multiple
studies which show either no effect of removing thimerosol, or even
increased autism after. I provided multiple links to this data at the
beginning of this post.


Quote:
Mercury is a known neurotoxin and could be especially harmful to the
developing brains of young children. Mercury also disrupts biochemistry
and can result in dysfunction of multiple enzyme systems and damage to
cell membranes and many proteins involved in all bodily functions. As can
be said for the MMR vaccine, increases in vaccinations correlate well with
increases in incidence of ASD's.


This is true of meucury, but not nessisarily of its salts. Thimerosol,
in high doses, is toxic. But at the doses given it is safe, even though
mercury and methyl mercury at the same dose may be toxic. John, Jan and
Dr. Haley fail to make this distinciton (between different forms of
mercury).

Just to give you an example of how different a salt can act, compared to
it's constiuent elements, lets look at table salt. Table salt consists
of a chlorine atom linked to a sodium atom. Chlorine on it's own is a
highly toxic gas - you use it to bleach your cloths, and the Germans
used it for gas warfare in WWI. Sodium is even worse; if it comes into
contact with water (or pretty much anything else) it reacts explosivly.
So if you ate chlorine, you'd die. If you tried to eat sodium your
head would disappear in a ball of flame. But put them togeather and you
get something which is relativly non-toxic, and which makes food taste
great.

Things can also work the other way. On their own, nitrogen, carbon and
hydrogen are relativly harmless. But combine them togeather in a 1:1:1
ratio and you get cyanide.

Dr. Haley would tell you that mercury is in some way special, but that
is a load of BS. All materials change their properties when they go
from an elemental to salt/molecular state. That is basic chemistry; the
kind of chemistry Dr. Haley should have learned in grade 9.


Quote:
In a paper published in the journal Neurotoxicology by The Coalition for
Safe Minds in 2001, the authors seek to determine the levels of mercury
that could be expected upon hair analysis, based upon the amounts of
mercury in vaccines routinely given to infants and children.(12). The
paper predicts, based upon a proven model, that giving children all the
usual vaccinations, using thimerosal containing vaccines would result in a
hair concentration of greater than 1ppm (parts per million) of mercury for
up to 365 days with various peaks during that period.


Fundamental flaw here. Hair is one of the major ways in which mercury
is expelled form the body (along with urination). As such you would
expect to see higher mercury concentrations in the hair then elsewhere
in the body. To be accurate they should have modeled blood
concentrations, or better yet, neurological tissue concentrations. But
of course they didn't do this, as the CSM is a well know anti-vaccine
group, and they wanted to twist data to fit their political agenda.

Also, they never did any experiments; they never actually measured
mercury levels in the hair of children! So we don't even know if their
model is correct:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

Of course, others did measure hair and blood mercury levels and found
that they were within safe limits, and was rapidly excreted in poop:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12480426&query_hl=50&itool=pubmed_docsum

In "retaliation" SafeMinds measured hair mercury levels, and endedup
having to to undercut their first study, and admit:

"Hair excretion patterns among autistic infants were significantly
reduced relative to control. These data cast doubt on the efficacy of
traditional hair analysis as a measure of total mercury exposure in a
subset of the population".


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12933322&query_hl=50&itool=pubmed_docsum

Or, in other words, their method did not work. Oops!


Quote:
1ppm is the safe
limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Research at the
UCLA Medical Center in California has also shown that Thimerosal (when
bound to human albumin protein) triggers an immune system reaction in
autistic children, resulting in the production of antibodies (17). This
indicates a possible autoimmune reaction as the immune system could react
against any of the child's own tissues that happen to have Thimerosal
bound to them.


This is called a hapten-carrier effect. Reactions to these are usually
relatively benign; poison-ivy reaction being an example of this effect
(itchiness, rash). Another thing that this article fails to point out
is that even if this was a detrimental reaction the amount of time in
which it could occur would be highly limited. Thimerosal breaks down
rapidly in the body, so the period of reaction would be short. It would
also be limited predominantly to the injection site. Lastly, your body
is well designed to limit damage to itself through these types of
reactions - each and every one of us has self-reacting antibodies in our
blood, including antibodies against our brains, and yet we're all fine.


Quote:
A paper published in March 2006 in Environmental Health Perspectives would
seem to shed more light on the mechanisms by which thimerosal can damage a
childs health. Researchers at University of California, Davis, have found
that in mice at least, thimerosal can disrupt the immune system.


Can't seem to find it. Here's the contents page for the specific issue
of "Environmental Health Perspectives" which this article claims carries
the paper:
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2006/114-3/toc.html

I can't find it.

That's because this "article" is in error - the report was published in
July 2006. Guess accuracy doesn't matter much when you're used to lying...

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/8881/8881.html

Quote:
This
large, well funded study


Doesn't mean its good science. Einsteins noble-prize winning work was
done while he worked in a patent office with no funding what-so-ever.
But having read this article I can say that their methods are robust.
This is my area of expertise - I too do immunological research, but
their findings aren't what Dr Boyd would make it out to be...

If I had to make one critisim of this study, it was the stimuli they
looked at. Activating dendritic cells (DC's) with ATP isn't exactly an
accurate model of what happens in the body. It would have been much
better had an actual vaccine adjuvent been used, or a more classical
immune activator like bacterial LPS.

Anyhow, the first thing worth pointing out is that the very low
concentrations of thimerisal that these cells respond to are only seen
at the injection site. 100nM may not sound like a lot; but my
back-of-the-napkin calculation shows that the average injection needs
only to diffuse through about 10ml of tissue to drop the concentration
down to this point. This would limit the effect to the DC's in the area
of the injection. To put this into context, the average male human body
has a volume of ~75,000ml. A newborn baby has a volume of ~4,000ml.

A second point worth making is that dendritic cells (DC's) are very
specific in picking things up; they strictly limit themselves to picking
up things in their local environment, and go through great lengths to
not pick up antigens once they begin to migrate towards the lymphatics.
As such, it's hard to see how a DC in your arm could encounter
antigens which would affect the brain.

Probably the most difficult result for Dr. Boyd is that thimerosol
actually inhibited DC-mediated inflammation. Unfortunately, the authors
didn't look at antigen presentation, or the cells ability to activate
T-cells (both of which would have given us a clearer idea of what this
does to the immune system). But based on the decreased IL-6 production,
thimerisal should be inhibiting immune responses. This is the opposite
of the immune findings in autistic children where hyperactivity, in
particular the overproduction of inflammatory cytokines, is seen.

In other words autism = increased IL-6 (and other cytokines), thimerosal
= decreased IL-6 (and possibly other cytokines).


Quote:
Autistic children often show signs of immunological dysfunction with
allergies, gut disorders and frequent infections being common.


All a result of the exact opposite imbalance induced by thimerisal in
these DC's. See my initial links for more on this...


Quote:
Of course, mercury is not the only heavy metal that can cause health
problems and vaccinations are not the only source of exposure to mercury.
Other possible sources of heavy metal exposure are contaminated food and
water supplies. Fish is particularly associated with contamination as
oceanic pollution becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain
to predatory fish..

A very, very true statement. Fish is a far greater mercury risk factor
then is vaccination. Both in the context of dose, as well as in the
context of toxicity - fish tend to have methyl mercury; much more toxic
then the ethyl mercury found in vaccines.

That said, even the high doses of mercury in fish - and remember, that's
high doses of a form of mercury known to be neurotoxic, has absolutely
no link with neurological disorders what-so-ever:

http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2006/8886/letter.html

Bryan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bryan,
Thanks for taking the time and effort needed to make your post. I just
hope that the scientists are able to develop a replacement for thimerosal
that works as well as thimerosal--that is NOT a known poison and causes NO
side effects. You explained your case very well. I do believe that most
children and adults can metabolize low levels of mercury with NO problems.
However, I also believe that some children and adults can NOT metabolize
mercury and as a result it causes major medical problems. More research is
needed to determine the cause of autism. It may or may not be related to
mercury so for that reason, I don't believe that it should be used in
vaccines. Why take the chance? If mercury is the cause of autism, some
children would still develop autism since it's in fish.
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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vernon
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:08 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:IRkrg.116642$H71.105831@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote:.
All BS, and you know it.

That's a lie. Educate yourself. Rather than show your brainwashing.


There's a paper in the wings which'll
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no
link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Eric Fombonne AMA.

What a hoot!

Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/

More *organized medicine*.

As for the safety, it is well established:

Established by whom??


"SAFE" applied ONLY under close supervision and by an M.D. who has had no
education in basics of maintaining health.

Prescription or applied by Physician only means "dangerous". (definition)



Quote:
[ ]

There are hundreds more of these out there, showing it s safe. What do
you have to prove it's dangerous? Nothing more then adds for products
which supposedly remove the mercury.
I have science, you have adds. I
wonder who's more likely to be right. . .

Liar.

I have posted research.


Not that we're surprised you cannot figure out the difference between
medicine and advertisements. After all, the difference between a metal
and a salt continues to elude you.

Liar. Liar. Liar.

Bryan

PS: *Look* *I* *can* *put* *words* *in* *bold* *too*. *Doesn't* *make*
*them* *any* *more* *important* *or* *correct*.

The words I posted come for those like yourself.

You have told nothing here but a bunch of lies... about me.

Just like the rest of the gang who are only here to protect, *organized
medicine*.

Get lost. Liar. This is misc.health.alternative.




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HCN
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8kemg$r13$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote:
All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll eliminate
any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/

....


Is this it?
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/e139?
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\"Jan Drew\"
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@nospamucalgary.ca> wrote:.
Quote:
All BS, and you know it.

That's a lie. Educate yourself. Rather than show your brainwashing.


There's a paper in the wings which'll
Quote:
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Eric Fombonne AMA.

What a hoot!
Quote:

Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/

More *organized medicine*.
Quote:

As for the safety, it is well established:

Established by whom??

[ ]
Quote:

There are hundreds more of these out there, showing it s safe. What do
you have to prove it's dangerous? Nothing more then adds for products
which supposedly remove the mercury.
I have science, you have adds. I
wonder who's more likely to be right. . .

Liar.

I have posted research.

Quote:

Not that we're surprised you cannot figure out the difference between
medicine and advertisements. After all, the difference between a metal
and a salt continues to elude you.

Liar. Liar. Liar.
Quote:

Bryan

PS: *Look* *I* *can* *put* *words* *in* *bold* *too*. *Doesn't* *make*
*them* *any* *more* *important* *or* *correct*.

The words I posted come for those like yourself.

You have told nothing here but a bunch of lies... about me.

Just like the rest of the gang who are only here to protect, *organized
medicine*.

Get lost. Liar. This is misc.health.alternative.
Back to top
Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Bryan,
Thanks for your post. I like your comments related to the following
information that I downloaded from a website.

I typed "Causes of autism" into the google search engine and could not find
any medical research reports related to the cause of autism.


A better place to look for information like this is a scientific search
engine like pubmed.gov or google scholar. This will limit your search
to scientific reports and medical studies, which'll get rid of most of
the chaff. Also, when searching for cause, the word scientists use is
"etiology". Don't ask me why; we just like big words. A search for
"etiology autism" (no quotes) in pubmed or google scholar should give
you at least 150 hits.

Also, many of the journals you'll find might charge access fees. If you
belong to a university you should have free access. If not feel free to
contact me direct (remove the nospam from my addy) and I can forward you
the relevant articles.

As for the causes of autism, we're not 100% sure. Firstly, autism is
not a single disease, but rather is a group of metal disorders which
have similar symptoms. For example, within "autism" there is Asperger's
disorder (a mild form) to spectrum disorders (severe autism). Depending
on what type of autism you look at, you'll find different things
associated with it. For example, many forms of autism appear to have
genetic links, or may be a result of chromosomal damage (similar damage
results in Downs syndrome). There is also some evidence that the immune
system is involved; perhaps by killing or damaging neurons. Lastly,
there is also evidence for hormonal misbalance. At this point it is not
clear if one, all, some, or none of these are the actual cause. Given
what we know about related metal disorders it is probably "all of the
above" plus some unknowns.

More importantly, several potential causes have been eliminated. The
idea that autism may be a result of vaccination has been thoroughly
debuked. Likewise, there doesn't seem to be a link between any
infectious diseases and autism.

Some links on cause of autism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16786424&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16766163&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16738187&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16733293&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16721319&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16720216&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16698940&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16650750&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16634517&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16602035&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16569671&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16512358&query_hl=27&itool=pubmed_DocSum


Some links disproving the autism/vaccination "link":
http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15121295&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15241885&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15215496&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16255569&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16047931&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15595144&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15575416&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15530668&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342856&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342825&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342824&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum


Quote:
Heavy Metal Toxicity
Another finding in autistic children is a higher level of heavy metals
than normal.


As you can see in the links I posted above, this link has been
thoroughly debunked. An interesting study is coming out at the end of
this month in pediatrics. Long story short, in Quebec (part of Canada)
thimerosol was eliminated fro all childhood vaccines in the mid-1990's.
The authors of this study simply compared the rates of autism in
children who had received thimerosol-containing vaccines to those who
had received thimerosol-free vaccines. Long story short - there is no
link. To quote the lead author of the study:

"In fact, in my study the incidence of (autism) is higher in the years
when there was no mercury."

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Quote:
One source of mercury exposure in early life is through
vaccinations.


A tiny fraction of the amount you'll get from eating fish. If you're
unfortunate enough to live in a highly industrialized area you'll also
get far more from pollution.


Quote:
Thimerosal is a preservative used in many vaccinations to
prevent contamination. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight. Shockingly
in 1999 the American Food and Drug Administration released a report
stating that children who received thimerosal containing vaccinations at
multiple visits may be exposed to more mercury than is recommended by
federal guidelines. In fact, children may have been receiving 100 times
the 0.1 micrograms per kilogram of daily exposure considered safe by most
authorities worldwide.


This is both true and false. The safety guidelines for mercury were
based on safe limits for metallic mercury and methyl-mercury (a salt of
mercury). Both of these compounds are highly toxic and are retained in
the body for long periods of time. However, thimerosol breaks down into
ethyl mercury; which is both far less toxic and is rapidly excreted from
the body.

Another thing about mercury poisoning is that it usually requires long
terms of exposure for mercury to have notable toxic effects. Given that
vaccines are very transient (and low-dose) routes of mercury exposure it
is highly unlikely that even an overdose of ethyl mercury via this route
would have much of an effect.


Quote:
This report has, however, resulted in positive
action being taken. Following the publication of the report, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) recommended that thimerosal be removed from all vaccines given to
children. A study of 2 US government databases in March 2006 shows that in
the 4 years following the recommended removal of thimerosal from childrens
vaccines, exposure of children to this toxin was reduced to almost zero,
and most importantly, new cases of autism actually began to decrease.


This claim is often made by the anti-vaccine crowds, but when asked to
furnish the studies to which this article refers, or to a study showing
a decrease in autism over the same period, they always fall silent.
I've spent a fair amount of time searching the medical literature and
cannot find these studies. Interestingly though, I have found multiple
studies which show either no effect of removing thimerosol, or even
increased autism after. I provided multiple links to this data at the
beginning of this post.


Quote:
Mercury is a known neurotoxin and could be especially harmful to the
developing brains of young children. Mercury also disrupts biochemistry
and can result in dysfunction of multiple enzyme systems and damage to
cell membranes and many proteins involved in all bodily functions. As can
be said for the MMR vaccine, increases in vaccinations correlate well with
increases in incidence of ASD's.


This is true of meucury, but not nessisarily of its salts. Thimerosol,
in high doses, is toxic. But at the doses given it is safe, even though
mercury and methyl mercury at the same dose may be toxic. John, Jan and
Dr. Haley fail to make this distinciton (between different forms of
mercury).

Just to give you an example of how different a salt can act, compared to
it's constiuent elements, lets look at table salt. Table salt consists
of a chlorine atom linked to a sodium atom. Chlorine on it's own is a
highly toxic gas - you use it to bleach your cloths, and the Germans
used it for gas warfare in WWI. Sodium is even worse; if it comes into
contact with water (or pretty much anything else) it reacts explosivly.
So if you ate chlorine, you'd die. If you tried to eat sodium your
head would disappear in a ball of flame. But put them togeather and you
get something which is relativly non-toxic, and which makes food taste
great.

Things can also work the other way. On their own, nitrogen, carbon and
hydrogen are relativly harmless. But combine them togeather in a 1:1:1
ratio and you get cyanide.

Dr. Haley would tell you that mercury is in some way special, but that
is a load of BS. All materials change their properties when they go
from an elemental to salt/molecular state. That is basic chemistry; the
kind of chemistry Dr. Haley should have learned in grade 9.


Quote:
In a paper published in the journal Neurotoxicology by The Coalition for
Safe Minds in 2001, the authors seek to determine the levels of mercury
that could be expected upon hair analysis, based upon the amounts of
mercury in vaccines routinely given to infants and children.(12). The
paper predicts, based upon a proven model, that giving children all the
usual vaccinations, using thimerosal containing vaccines would result in a
hair concentration of greater than 1ppm (parts per million) of mercury for
up to 365 days with various peaks during that period.


Fundamental flaw here. Hair is one of the major ways in which mercury
is expelled form the body (along with urination). As such you would
expect to see higher mercury concentrations in the hair then elsewhere
in the body. To be accurate they should have modeled blood
concentrations, or better yet, neurological tissue concentrations. But
of course they didn't do this, as the CSM is a well know anti-vaccine
group, and they wanted to twist data to fit their political agenda.

Also, they never did any experiments; they never actually measured
mercury levels in the hair of children! So we don't even know if their
model is correct:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

Of course, others did measure hair and blood mercury levels and found
that they were within safe limits, and was rapidly excreted in poop:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12480426&query_hl=50&itool=pubmed_docsum

In "retaliation" SafeMinds measured hair mercury levels, and endedup
having to to undercut their first study, and admit:

"Hair excretion patterns among autistic infants were significantly
reduced relative to control. These data cast doubt on the efficacy of
traditional hair analysis as a measure of total mercury exposure in a
subset of the population".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12933322&query_hl=50&itool=pubmed_docsum

Or, in other words, their method did not work. Oops!


Quote:
1ppm is the safe
limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Research at the
UCLA Medical Center in California has also shown that Thimerosal (when
bound to human albumin protein) triggers an immune system reaction in
autistic children, resulting in the production of antibodies (17). This
indicates a possible autoimmune reaction as the immune system could react
against any of the child's own tissues that happen to have Thimerosal
bound to them.


This is called a hapten-carrier effect. Reactions to these are usually
relatively benign; poison-ivy reaction being an example of this effect
(itchiness, rash). Another thing that this article fails to point out
is that even if this was a detrimental reaction the amount of time in
which it could occur would be highly limited. Thimerosal breaks down
rapidly in the body, so the period of reaction would be short. It would
also be limited predominantly to the injection site. Lastly, your body
is well designed to limit damage to itself through these types of
reactions - each and every one of us has self-reacting antibodies in our
blood, including antibodies against our brains, and yet we're all fine.


Quote:
A paper published in March 2006 in Environmental Health Perspectives would
seem to shed more light on the mechanisms by which thimerosal can damage a
childs health. Researchers at University of California, Davis, have found
that in mice at least, thimerosal can disrupt the immune system.


Can't seem to find it. Here's the contents page for the specific issue
of "Environmental Health Perspectives" which this article claims carries
the paper:
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2006/114-3/toc.html

I can't find it.

That's because this "article" is in error - the report was published in
July 2006. Guess accuracy doesn't matter much when you're used to lying...

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/8881/8881.html

Quote:
This
large, well funded study


Doesn't mean its good science. Einsteins noble-prize winning work was
done while he worked in a patent office with no funding what-so-ever.
But having read this article I can say that their methods are robust.
This is my area of expertise - I too do immunological research, but
their findings aren't what Dr Boyd would make it out to be...

If I had to make one critisim of this study, it was the stimuli they
looked at. Activating dendritic cells (DC's) with ATP isn't exactly an
accurate model of what happens in the body. It would have been much
better had an actual vaccine adjuvent been used, or a more classical
immune activator like bacterial LPS.

Anyhow, the first thing worth pointing out is that the very low
concentrations of thimerisal that these cells respond to are only seen
at the injection site. 100nM may not sound like a lot; but my
back-of-the-napkin calculation shows that the average injection needs
only to diffuse through about 10ml of tissue to drop the concentration
down to this point. This would limit the effect to the DC's in the area
of the injection. To put this into context, the average male human body
has a volume of ~75,000ml. A newborn baby has a volume of ~4,000ml.

A second point worth making is that dendritic cells (DC's) are very
specific in picking things up; they strictly limit themselves to picking
up things in their local environment, and go through great lengths to
not pick up antigens once they begin to migrate towards the lymphatics.
As such, it's hard to see how a DC in your arm could encounter
antigens which would affect the brain.

Probably the most difficult result for Dr. Boyd is that thimerosol
actually inhibited DC-mediated inflammation. Unfortunately, the authors
didn't look at antigen presentation, or the cells ability to activate
T-cells (both of which would have given us a clearer idea of what this
does to the immune system). But based on the decreased IL-6 production,
thimerisal should be inhibiting immune responses. This is the opposite
of the immune findings in autistic children where hyperactivity, in
particular the overproduction of inflammatory cytokines, is seen.

In other words autism = increased IL-6 (and other cytokines), thimerosal
= decreased IL-6 (and possibly other cytokines).


Quote:
Autistic children often show signs of immunological dysfunction with
allergies, gut disorders and frequent infections being common.


All a result of the exact opposite imbalance induced by thimerisal in
these DC's. See my initial links for more on this...


Quote:
Of course, mercury is not the only heavy metal that can cause health
problems and vaccinations are not the only source of exposure to mercury.
Other possible sources of heavy metal exposure are contaminated food and
water supplies. Fish is particularly associated with contamination as
oceanic pollution becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain
to predatory fish..

A very, very true statement. Fish is a far greater mercury risk factor
then is vaccination. Both in the context of dose, as well as in the
context of toxicity - fish tend to have methyl mercury; much more toxic
then the ethyl mercury found in vaccines.

That said, even the high doses of mercury in fish - and remember, that's
high doses of a form of mercury known to be neurotoxic, has absolutely
no link with neurological disorders what-so-ever:

http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2006/8886/letter.html

Bryan
Back to top
\"Jan Drew\"
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:

[The same old lies..he has repeated for years].
Quote:
"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8jlud$gqs$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Jan Drew wrote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8j8oe$be0$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Jason Johnson wrote:

Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury? Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you
remove the thimerosol you must replace it with something else;
otherwise,
by the time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll be a pool
of
viable bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less
toxic
then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an
option d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for
option
'd'. Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan


The question is...why not??

Why not as in? I'm going to assume why there isn't safer preservatives,
but I'm just guessing there.

As for that, there are several reasons. The major problem is that we
share biochemical similarities with the very organisms we're trying to
kill. As such it is very difficult to design a preservative which will
act against both major branches of bacteria, and fungi, without creating
something that is highly toxic to ourselves as well. So although there
are literally dozens of preservatives which react against the target
organisms, most of them are also highly toxic to us. Thimerosal has the
advantage that it's toxicity is low enough that we can use it at doses
which inhibit bacterial growth, but present no risk to us.


The second difficulty is stability. In order to be effective a
preservative has to last long enough to keep the product safe until use.
Thimerosal is very stable, which is a rather unique property among
preservatives. Because of the way they work, most broad-acting
preservatives also tend to be highly chemically active, and thus are not
stable.

The last reason is economic. Thimerosal is a safe preservative, which
has
been used for decades without any significant side effects.

*Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable*
*significant* *credibile* *compelling* *copious* *direct* *unreliable*

Words which Jan feels should not be applied to research.

You don't speak for me. Neither do you know how I feel.

They are famous words debunkers use.
Quote:



It's
also cheap, stable and effective. AS such there was no drive to create
a
replacement product.

Bryan

What nonsense you write...


http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/kidsrisk.htm#Mercury

Advertising for a commercial web site owned by Dr Boyd Haley.

Nonsense. I don't advertise..unlike your buddy, who posts your SPAM.

Unlike your lying websites..there is RESEARCH on his.
Quote:


There is also evidence that mercury found in some childhood vaccines can
hamper development. Will Redwood, for instance, a 6-year-old from suburban
Atlanta, seemed perfectly normal at birth. Within two years, he had
stopped
interacting with his family. By age 5, he was diagnosed with a mild form
of
autism. His mother, Lyn, a nurse practitioner, read that some childhood
vaccines contain the mercury-based preservative thimerosal, cumulative
doses
of which could be harmful. She had a lock of Will's hair analyzed, and it
was found to be loaded with mercury.

Strangely, for something quoted from Dr Haley's web site, this comment
disagrees with Dr Haley's opinion that a LACK of mercury in the hair
indicates a high level in the body.


Still, as Dr Haley is only in it for the money

Nonsense. He helps with autism..for FREE.

http://bikerchick.freehomepage.com/custom4.html

http://momsonamissionforautism.org/Heroes/Boyd_Haley.shtml

Your Comments *
"Thank you Dr. Haley for your dedication to uncovering the Thimerosal
scandal."


"Dr. Haley for all of the research and time he's put into getting to the
truth."


"Dr. Haley has always been so kind and generous. Thank you for standing
strong and helping so many families."
Quote:
--
Peter Bowditch

http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/MercuryExempt/06_exempt_rpt_to_GA.htm


http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/pres_releases/060502Herman.pdf

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/asdvaccines.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/knowneffects.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/autismhg.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimlinks.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimelililly.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/whothim.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/vaccinelawsuits.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimautism.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimeffects.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/adjuvants.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/mtautism.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/vacinjury.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/autismdetox.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/toxicvaccine.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/asdexperts.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimtox.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/fdahypocracy.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/vaccineboost.htm

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/articles/183/1/A-Dragon-By-the-Tail/print/183

http://www.blogforiowa.com/blog/_archives/2005/3/18
Back to top
Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

All BS, and you know it. There's a paper in the wings which'll
eliminate any doubt about the autism-vaccine link; as in there is no link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth/story.html?id=bc8253e7-ec6f-4bbd-a01c-5295b731d3f9&k=7417

Comes out in this journal, probably in the next 2-3 weeks:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/

As for the safety, it is well established:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15121295&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15241885&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15637857&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15215496&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16255569&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16047931&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15816809&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15595144&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15575416&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15530668&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342856&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342825&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15342824&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_DocSum

There are hundreds more of these out there, showing it s safe. What do
you have to prove it's dangerous? Nothing more then adds for products
which supposedly remove the mercury. I have science, you have adds. I
wonder who's more likely to be right. . .

Not that we're surprised you cannot figure out the difference between
medicine and advertisements. After all, the difference between a metal
and a salt continues to elude you.

Bryan

PS: *Look* *I* *can* *put* *words* *in* *bold* *too*. *Doesn't* *make*
*them* *any* *more* *important* *or* *correct*.
Back to top
Peter Bowditch
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Jan Drew" <jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Quote:

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8jlud$gqs$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Jan Drew wrote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8j8oe$be0$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Jason Johnson wrote:

Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury? Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you
remove the thimerosol you must replace it with something else; otherwise,
by the time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll be a pool of
viable bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less toxic
then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an
option d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for option
'd'. Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan


The question is...why not??

Why not as in? I'm going to assume why there isn't safer preservatives,
but I'm just guessing there.

As for that, there are several reasons. The major problem is that we
share biochemical similarities with the very organisms we're trying to
kill. As such it is very difficult to design a preservative which will
act against both major branches of bacteria, and fungi, without creating
something that is highly toxic to ourselves as well. So although there
are literally dozens of preservatives which react against the target
organisms, most of them are also highly toxic to us. Thimerosal has the
advantage that it's toxicity is low enough that we can use it at doses
which inhibit bacterial growth, but present no risk to us.


The second difficulty is stability. In order to be effective a
preservative has to last long enough to keep the product safe until use.
Thimerosal is very stable, which is a rather unique property among
preservatives. Because of the way they work, most broad-acting
preservatives also tend to be highly chemically active, and thus are not
stable.

The last reason is economic. Thimerosal is a safe preservative, which has
been used for decades without any significant side effects.

*Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable*
*significant* *credibile* *compelling* *copious* *direct* *unreliable*

Words which Jan feels should not be applied to research.

Quote:


It's
also cheap, stable and effective. AS such there was no drive to create a
replacement product.

Bryan

What nonsense you write...


http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/kidsrisk.htm#Mercury

Advertising for a commercial web site owned by Dr Boyd Haley.

Quote:

There is also evidence that mercury found in some childhood vaccines can
hamper development. Will Redwood, for instance, a 6-year-old from suburban
Atlanta, seemed perfectly normal at birth. Within two years, he had stopped
interacting with his family. By age 5, he was diagnosed with a mild form of
autism. His mother, Lyn, a nurse practitioner, read that some childhood
vaccines contain the mercury-based preservative thimerosal, cumulative doses
of which could be harmful. She had a lock of Will's hair analyzed, and it
was found to be loaded with mercury.

Strangely, for something quoted from Dr Haley's web site, this comment
disagrees with Dr Haley's opinion that a LACK of mercury in the hair
indicates a high level in the body.

Still, as Dr Haley is only in it for the money there is no reason to
expect him to be consistent in what he says. In fact, as he offers
both testing and the cure, whatever the tests show is irrelevant. What
matters is the sale.

<snip mass of bullshit and advertising>
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

In article <e8jlud$gqs$1@news.ucalgary.ca>, Bryan Heit
<bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote:

Jan Drew wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8j8oe$be0$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Jason Johnson wrote:

Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury? Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you remove
the thimerosol you must replace it with something else; otherwise, by the
time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll be a pool of viable
bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less toxic
then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an option
d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for option 'd'.
Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan


The question is...why not??

Why not as in? I'm going to assume why there isn't safer preservatives,
but I'm just guessing there.

As for that, there are several reasons. The major problem is that we
share biochemical similarities with the very organisms we're trying to
kill. As such it is very difficult to design a preservative which will
act against both major branches of bacteria, and fungi, without creating
something that is highly toxic to ourselves as well. So although there
are literally dozens of preservatives which react against the target
organisms, most of them are also highly toxic to us. Thimerosal has the
advantage that it's toxicity is low enough that we can use it at doses
which inhibit bacterial growth, but present no risk to us.

The second difficulty is stability. In order to be effective a
preservative has to last long enough to keep the product safe until use.
Thimerosal is very stable, which is a rather unique property among
preservatives. Because of the way they work, most broad-acting
preservatives also tend to be highly chemically active, and thus are not
stable.

The last reason is economic. Thimerosal is a safe preservative, which
has been used for decades without any significant side effects. It's
also cheap, stable and effective. AS such there was no drive to create
a replacement product.

Bryan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bryan,
Thanks for your post. I like your comments related to the following
information that I downloaded from a website.

I typed "Causes of autism" into the google search engine and could not find
any medical research reports related to the cause of autism. I did find out
that Dr. Boyd Haley believes that autism is the result of children not be
able to metabolize mercury. He may have written the article that I read
related to this issue that was published in a magazine. I found the following
information at the EIR (Environmental Illness Resources) website. I deleted the
portions of the article related to causes other than heavy metals such as
chemicals. You will need to visit the EIR website if you want to read the entire
article and the references.

Heavy Metal Toxicity
Another finding in autistic children is a higher level of heavy metals
than normal. One source of mercury exposure in early life is through
vaccinations. Thimerosal is a preservative used in many vaccinations to
prevent contamination. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight. Shockingly
in 1999 the American Food and Drug Administration released a report
stating that children who received thimerosal containing vaccinations at
multiple visits may be exposed to more mercury than is recommended by
federal guidelines. In fact, children may have been receiving 100 times
the 0.1 micrograms per kilogram of daily exposure considered safe by most
authorities worldwide. This report has, however, resulted in positive
action being taken. Following the publication of the report, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) recommended that thimerosal be removed from all vaccines given to
children. A study of 2 US government databases in March 2006 shows that in
the 4 years following the recommended removal of thimerosal from childrens
vaccines, exposure of children to this toxin was reduced to almost zero,
and most importantly, new cases of autism actually began to decrease.

Mercury is a known neurotoxin and could be especially harmful to the
developing brains of young children. Mercury also disrupts biochemistry
and can result in dysfunction of multiple enzyme systems and damage to
cell membranes and many proteins involved in all bodily functions. As can
be said for the MMR vaccine, increases in vaccinations correlate well with
increases in incidence of ASD's.

In a paper published in the journal Neurotoxicology by The Coalition for
Safe Minds in 2001, the authors seek to determine the levels of mercury
that could be expected upon hair analysis, based upon the amounts of
mercury in vaccines routinely given to infants and children.(12). The
paper predicts, based upon a proven model, that giving children all the
usual vaccinations, using thimerosal containing vaccines would result in a
hair concentration of greater than 1ppm (parts per million) of mercury for
up to 365 days with various peaks during that period. 1ppm is the safe
limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Research at the
UCLA Medical Center in California has also shown that Thimerosal (when
bound to human albumin protein) triggers an immune system reaction in
autistic children, resulting in the production of antibodies (17). This
indicates a possible autoimmune reaction as the immune system could react
against any of the child's own tissues that happen to have Thimerosal
bound to them.

Obviously children are exposed to mercury from other sources as well so
their actual mercury levels could be expected to be even higher than this.
The paper notes that:

"exposure to low levels of mercury during critical stages of development
has been associated with neurological disorders in children, including
ADD, learning difficulties, and speech delays, the predicted hair Hg
(mercury) concentration resulting from childhood immunizations is cause
for concern."

A paper published in March 2006 in Environmental Health Perspectives would
seem to shed more light on the mechanisms by which thimerosal can damage a
childs health. Researchers at University of California, Davis, have found
that in mice at least, thimerosal can disrupt the immune system. This
large, well funded study for the university's MIND Institute and the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences is sure to be an
important indicator of where future research should be focused. The
researchers in this study looked at dendritic cells which can be described
as messengers within the immune system. These cells take up invaders such
as bacteria, viruses and other antigens such as vaccine ingredients and
process them. They then migrate to the lymph nodes to present their
information to other immune cells, which can activate a systemic immune
response. The research shows that these dendritic cells, especially the
normal biochemical signals they process, are highly sensitive to
thimerosal. With low concentrations of thimerosal, an inflammatory
response occurs and with higher concentrations the cell is actually
killed. These reactions could lead to any number of unwanted, and
uncontrolled, effects within the immune system.

Autistic children often show signs of immunological dysfunction with
allergies, gut disorders and frequent infections being common. The effects
of thimerosal on the immune system, that this study demonstrates, provides
one possible explanation of why this is the case.

Of course, mercury is not the only heavy metal that can cause health
problems and vaccinations are not the only source of exposure to mercury.
Other possible sources of heavy metal exposure are contaminated food and
water supplies. Fish is particularly associated with contamination as
oceanic pollution becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain
to predatory fish..



Chemical Exposure
A number of researchers and institutions are now studying the possible
role of exposure to chemicals in ASD's. A major study is underway at The
UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, Schools of Medicine and Veterinary Medicine,
and the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences funded by the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. Professor Isaac
Pessah who is involved with this study states:

" Environmental exp
Back to top
\"Jan Drew\"
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines INCREASES incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8jlud$gqs$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote:
Jan Drew wrote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8j8oe$be0$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Jason Johnson wrote:

Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury? Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you
remove the thimerosol you must replace it with something else; otherwise,
by the time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll be a pool of
viable bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less toxic
then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an
option d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for option
'd'. Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan


The question is...why not??

Why not as in? I'm going to assume why there isn't safer preservatives,
but I'm just guessing there.

As for that, there are several reasons. The major problem is that we
share biochemical similarities with the very organisms we're trying to
kill. As such it is very difficult to design a preservative which will
act against both major branches of bacteria, and fungi, without creating
something that is highly toxic to ourselves as well. So although there
are literally dozens of preservatives which react against the target
organisms, most of them are also highly toxic to us. Thimerosal has the
advantage that it's toxicity is low enough that we can use it at doses
which inhibit bacterial growth, but present no risk to us.


The second difficulty is stability. In order to be effective a
preservative has to last long enough to keep the product safe until use.
Thimerosal is very stable, which is a rather unique property among
preservatives. Because of the way they work, most broad-acting
preservatives also tend to be highly chemically active, and thus are not
stable.

The last reason is economic. Thimerosal is a safe preservative, which has
been used for decades without any significant side effects.

*Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable*
*significant* *credibile* *compelling* *copious* *direct* *unreliable*


It's
Quote:
also cheap, stable and effective. AS such there was no drive to create a
replacement product.

Bryan

What nonsense you write...


http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/kidsrisk.htm#Mercury

There is also evidence that mercury found in some childhood vaccines can
hamper development. Will Redwood, for instance, a 6-year-old from suburban
Atlanta, seemed perfectly normal at birth. Within two years, he had stopped
interacting with his family. By age 5, he was diagnosed with a mild form of
autism. His mother, Lyn, a nurse practitioner, read that some childhood
vaccines contain the mercury-based preservative thimerosal, cumulative doses
of which could be harmful. She had a lock of Will's hair analyzed, and it
was found to be loaded with mercury. In his first round of vaccinations
alone, given when he was 2 months old, Will received 62.5 micrograms of
mercury, or 125 times the EPA's daily limit. No one can say whether the
vaccines-which contained the maximum amount of thimerosal-caused Will's
autism. And experts say that parents should not withhold inoculations. In a
statement last year, a group of manufacturers said that vaccines containing
thimerosal "have been administered to billions of children and adults
worldwide, with no scientific or medical data to suggest that it poses a
public health risk." Still, the American Academy of Pediatrics raised enough
questions last year that vaccine manufacturers have agreed to phase out
thimerosal as soon as possible.

http://www.idph.state.il.us/about/MercuryExempt/06_exempt_rpt_to_GA.htm


http://www.safeminds.org/pressroom/pres_releases/060502Herman.pdf

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/asdvaccines.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/knowneffects.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/autismhg.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimlinks.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimelililly.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/whothim.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/vaccinelawsuits.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimautism.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimeffects.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/adjuvants.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/mtautism.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/aluminumvaccines.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/vacinjury.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/autismdetox.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/toxicvaccine.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/asdexperts.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimtox.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/fdahypocracy.htm

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/vaccineboost.htm

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/articles/183/1/A-Dragon-By-the-Tail/print/183

http://www.blogforiowa.com/blog/_archives/2005/3/18
Back to top
Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jan Drew wrote:
Quote:
"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8j8oe$be0$1@news.ucalgary.ca...

Jason Johnson wrote:

Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury? Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you remove
the thimerosol you must replace it with something else; otherwise, by the
time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll be a pool of viable
bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less toxic
then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an option
d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for option 'd'.
Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan


The question is...why not??

Why not as in? I'm going to assume why there isn't safer preservatives,
but I'm just guessing there.

As for that, there are several reasons. The major problem is that we
share biochemical similarities with the very organisms we're trying to
kill. As such it is very difficult to design a preservative which will
act against both major branches of bacteria, and fungi, without creating
something that is highly toxic to ourselves as well. So although there
are literally dozens of preservatives which react against the target
organisms, most of them are also highly toxic to us. Thimerosal has the
advantage that it's toxicity is low enough that we can use it at doses
which inhibit bacterial growth, but present no risk to us.

The second difficulty is stability. In order to be effective a
preservative has to last long enough to keep the product safe until use.
Thimerosal is very stable, which is a rather unique property among
preservatives. Because of the way they work, most broad-acting
preservatives also tend to be highly chemically active, and thus are not
stable.

The last reason is economic. Thimerosal is a safe preservative, which
has been used for decades without any significant side effects. It's
also cheap, stable and effective. AS such there was no drive to create
a replacement product.

Bryan
Back to top
\"Jan Drew\"
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 353

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

"Bryan Heit" <bjheit@NOSPAMucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:e8j8oe$be0$1@news.ucalgary.ca...
Quote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury? Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you remove
the thimerosol you must replace it with something else; otherwise, by the
time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll be a pool of viable
bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less toxic
then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an option
d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for option 'd'.
Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan

The question is...why not??
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Bryan Heit
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Do you agree or disagree that it would be
better if vaccines did NOT contain mercury?
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Depends on what the alternative is. The thimerosol is in there for a
reason - to prevent bacterial contamination of the vaccine. If you
remove the thimerosol you must replace it with something else;
otherwise, by the time the vaccine makes it to the doctors office it'll
be a pool of viable bacteria; not exactly something we want to be injecting.

Thimerisol is used as a preservative in vaccines as it is much less
toxic then the alternative preservatives. So if the options are:

a) To have thimerosol in the vaccines
b) Replace the thimerosol with a more toxic preservative
c) Remove all preservatives, but risk bacterial contamination

I'll have to go with a; least dangerous route. Now if there was an
option d - replace with a safer preservative - then I'd be all for
option 'd'. Problem is, such a preservative does not exist (yet).

Bryan
Back to top
Jason
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1119

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Thimerosal in vaccines reduces incidence of autism Reply with quote

In article <QCepg.212$cF7.66@fe09.lga>, Mark Probert
<markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
Quote:
In article <BU8pg.68$Z72.6@fe08.lga>, Mark Probert
markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

Jason Johnson wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
My point is that a safe form of a poision is still a poison. A
safe form
of mercury is still a poison

If it is safe, it cannot be a poison. Poisons are not safe.

Are your a graduate of the PeteyB School of Linguistic Obfuscation?

What about homeopathic preparations made with mercury that are
alleged
to be able to cure tonsillitis?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
I leave it up to each person to make up their own minds in relation to
vaccines and medication containing mercury. My concern is children.
Please look up the word MERCURY in your dictionary. It will say
that it is
a poison. The experts at FDA know as much as you know about this
subject
and they agree with me and they don't agree with you. I believe that I
have science on my side related to this issue. Mercury is a KNOWN
poison
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So is sodium, chlorine, etc. but they are all necessary for life.

I know that your "mind" is made up, and you must chant the mantra of

Mercury is a poison.

You have no capacity to understand these things.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mark,
Your must chant the mantra of

"The dictionary is wrong--mercury is NOT a poison."

No, idiot, I do not have that opinion. Obviously, your reading
comprehension skills are of the same level as your science skills.

Mercury. like just about everything else, is a poison, depending on the
compound, method of administration, and dosage. There are doses which
are inherently non-toxic, and there are doses that are.

You have no capacity to understand that vaccines should not contain
thimerosal so as to reduce the exposure of children to mercury which is a
known poison.

At the doses used, the thimerosal is non-toxic, and the residual mercury
is rapidly cleared by the child's body.

One of the theories is that children that develop autism are not able to
metabolize mercury--regardless of the source of the mercury. I don't know
whether or not that theory is true. What's your opinion about that theory?

I have read nothing in the form of scientific studies that would support
the theory. There is good evidence to say it is not correct.

It is YOUR theory.

Back it up with verifiable references.

Otherwise, you are posting flatulence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
What do you believe is the cause of autism?

For the most part, genetics.

BTW, care to respond to any points I made? Care to back up the existence
of a problem where autistic kids cannot clear mercury?

I doubt you will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello,
I typed "Causes of autism" into the google search engine and could not find
any medical research reports related to the cause of autism. I did find out
that Dr. Boyd Haley believes that autism is the result of children not be
able to metabolize mercury. He may have written the article that I read
related to this issue that was published in a magazine. I found the following
information at the EIR (Environmental Illness Resources). I deleted the
portions of the article related to causes other than heavy metals such as
chemicals.

Heavy Metal Toxicity
Another finding in autistic children is a higher level of heavy metals
than normal. One source of mercury exposure in early life is through
vaccinations. Thimerosal is a preservative used in many vaccinations to
prevent contamination. Thimerosal is 49.6% mercury by weight. Shockingly
in 1999 the American Food and Drug Administration released a report
stating that children who received thimerosal containing vaccinations at
multiple visits may be exposed to more mercury than is recommended by
federal guidelines. In fact, children may have been receiving 100 times
the 0.1 micrograms per kilogram of daily exposure considered safe by most
authorities worldwide. This report has, however, resulted in positive
action being taken. Following the publication of the report, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Centers for Disease Control
(CDC) recommended that thimerosal be removed from all vaccines given to
children. A study of 2 US government databases in March 2006 shows that in
the 4 years following the recommended removal of thimerosal from childrens
vaccines, exposure of children to this toxin was reduced to almost zero,
and most importantly, new cases of autism actually began to decrease.

Mercury is a known neurotoxin and could be especially harmful to the
developing brains of young children. Mercury also disrupts biochemistry
and can result in dysfunction of multiple enzyme systems and damage to
cell membranes and many proteins involved in all bodily functions. As can
be said for the MMR vaccine, increases in vaccinations correlate well with
increases in incidence of ASD's.

In a paper published in the journal Neurotoxicology by The Coalition for
Safe Minds in 2001, the authors seek to determine the levels of mercury
that could be expected upon hair analysis, based upon the amounts of
mercury in vaccines routinely given to infants and children.(12). The
paper predicts, based upon a proven model, that giving children all the
usual vaccinations, using thimerosal containing vaccines would result in a
hair concentration of greater than 1ppm (parts per million) of mercury for
up to 365 days with various peaks during that period. 1ppm is the safe
limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Research at the
UCLA Medical Center in California has also shown that Thimerosal (when
bound to human albumin protein) triggers an immune system reaction in
autistic children, resulting in the production of antibodies (17). This
indicates a possible autoimmune reaction as the immune system could react
against any of the child's own tissues that happen to have Thimerosal
bound to them.

Obviously children are exposed to mercury from other sources as well so
their actual mercury levels could be expected to be even higher than this.
The paper notes that:

"exposure to low levels of mercury during critical stages of development
has been associated with neurological disorders in children, including
ADD, learning difficulties, and speech delays, the predicted hair Hg
(mercury) concentration resulting from childhood immunizations is cause
for concern."

A paper published in March 2006 in Environmental Health Perspectives would
seem to shed more light on the mechanisms by which thimerosal can damage a
childs health. Researchers at University of California, Davis, have found
that in mice at least, thimerosal can disrupt the immune system. This
large, well funded study for the university's MIND Institute and the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences is sure to be an
important indicator of where future research should be focused. The
researchers in this study looked at dendritic cells which can be described
as messengers within the immune system. These cells take up invaders such
as bacteria, viruses and other antigens such as vaccine ingredients and
process them. They then migrate to the lymph nodes to present their
information to other immune cells, which can activate a systemic immune
response. The research shows that these dendritic cells, especially the
normal biochemical signals they process, are highly sensitive to
thimerosal. With low concentrations of thimerosal, an inflammatory
response occurs and with higher concentrations the cell is actually
killed. These reactions could lead to any number of unwanted, and
uncontrolled, effects within the immune system.

Autistic children often show signs of immunological dysfunction with
allergies, gut disorders and frequent infections being common. The effects
of thimerosal on the immune system, that this study demonstrates, provides
one possible explanation of why this is the case.

Of course, mercury is not the only heavy metal that can cause health
problems and vaccinations are not the only source of exposure to mercury.
Other possible sources of heavy metal exposure are contaminated food and
water supplies. Fish is particularly associated with contamination as
oceanic pollution becomes more concentrated as it moves up the food chain
to predatory fish..



Chemical Exposure
A number of researchers and institutions are now studying the possible
role of exposure to chemicals in ASD's. A major study is underway at The
UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute, Schools of Medicine and Veterinary Medicine,
and the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences funded by the
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. Professor Isaac
Pessah who is involved with this study states:

" Environmental exp
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