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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject:
Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The world's top-selling drugs, cholesterol-
lowering statins, might provide a way to treat feared bird flu, according
to a doctor and retired drug company executive who is trying to get the
researchers to study the possibility.
Antivirals that affect the influenza virus are in short supply, and it
will be years before vaccine makers can ramp up capacity enough to
immunize the world's population against a pandemic flu.
But what if there was a cheap and widely available drug that helped treat
the flu's worst symptoms and possibly save lives?
Evidence suggests that statin drugs, designed to lower cholesterol, might
help turn a potentially deadly infection into a milder disease, according
to Dr. David Fedson, who thinks world health authorities ought to take a
harder look at the possibility.
"Generic statins are available in virtually every country," said Fedson,
a retired U.S. physician living in France.
"You'll be able to take five days of statins in India for less than a
dollar," Fedson, who was also director of medical affairs at Aventis
Pasteur (now French drug company Sanofi Aventis), said in a telephone
interview.
"We have something that conceivably could save tens of thousands of
lives. This research is so important that we cannot afford not to take
it."
Fedson, an expert on vaccination, cites several recent studies that show
that statins reduce inflammation. Designed to lower cholesterol, the
drugs work on several biological processes and may reduce the risk of
Alzheimer's disease, some cancers, and multiple sclerosis.
In January, researchers in Canada reported that statins act against
sepsis, a dangerous blood infection and a 2005 study published in the
journal Respiratory Research found the death rate was 64 percent lower in
pneumonia patients who had been taking statins.
IMMUNE STORM
Fedson cites yet other studies that suggest strongly that people who are
infected with avian influenza have an immune system overreaction known as
a cytokine storm.
Their immune system signals chemicals rush to fight off the alien virus,
causing an inflammation of the lungs and other organs that may be what
kills them.
"It's an idea, just an idea and it needs to be substantiated with both
cellular-based and animal-based studies," Fedson said. "We need to do it
and we need to do it fast."
He is getting some attention.
Fedson presented his idea last week to the Congress of Infectious
Diseases in Lisbon, Portugal, and is to speak to a bird flu conference
next week at the Institut Pasteur in Paris. He also has a paper in next
month's issue of the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases.
Statins -- which include Pfizer Inc.'s $10 billion-a-year Lipitor,
Bristol-Myers Squibb Co.'s Pravachol and Merck and Co. Inc.'s Zocor --
are the world's best-selling drugs, taken by millions to reduce the risk
of heart attack.
Experts say a pandemic of some sort of influenza is inevitable.
The H5N1 avian influenza sweeping countries in Asia and also affecting
Europe and Africa is considered the most likely candidate. So far it has
rarely infected people, but has killed 130 out of 228 infected and just a
few mutations would turn it into a form that could be passed easily from
one person to another.
If this happens in the next few years, the World Health
Organization and other experts agree the world is very poorly prepared
and that millions could die.
A WHO spokesman said the agency had no immediate comment on Fedson's
work, and spokespeople for companies that make statins said they had not
looked into the possibility of testing the drugs in influenza patients. |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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x-no-archive: yes
listener wrote:
| Quote: | WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The world's top-selling drugs, cholesterol-
lowering statins, might provide a way to treat feared bird flu, according
to a doctor and retired drug company executive who is trying to get the
researchers to study the possibility.
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When statins also are touted for detailing your car, maybe I'll be
interested.
SHILL.
Susan |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | x-no-archive: yes
listener wrote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The world's top-selling drugs, cholesterol-
lowering statins, might provide a way to treat feared bird flu, according
to a doctor and retired drug company executive who is trying to get the
researchers to study the possibility.
When statins also are touted for detailing your car, maybe I'll be
interested.
SHILL.
Susan
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Actually, there's some decent logic to the guy's idea, even if he did work
as a Big Pharma executive.
"It's a dessert topping AND a Floor wax!"
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
| Quote: | Actually, there's some decent logic to the guy's idea, even if he did work
as a Big Pharma executive.
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If you believe any research into statins has integrity, perhaps.
| Quote: |
"It's a dessert topping AND a Floor wax!"
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I thought it was "a floor wax AND a flavored douche!"
Susan |
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in news:4ftr7uF1hvgjuU1@individual.net:
| Quote: | x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
Actually, there's some decent logic to the guy's idea, even if he did
work
as a Big Pharma executive.
If you believe any research into statins has integrity, perhaps.
"It's a dessert topping AND a Floor wax!"
I thought it was "a floor wax AND a flavored douche!"
Susan
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So, Jim, do you believe ANY statin research has integrity?
And how would you characterize someone who believes that all research
related to statins (particularly when it is positive) is bogus.
L. |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:49 am Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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listener <listener@nospam.net> wrote in part:
| Quote: | Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in news:4ftr7uF1hvgjuU1@individual.net:
x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
Actually, there's some decent logic to the guy's idea, even if he did
work
as a Big Pharma executive.
If you believe any research into statins has integrity, perhaps.
"It's a dessert topping AND a Floor wax!"
I thought it was "a floor wax AND a flavored douche!"
Susan
So, Jim, do you believe ANY statin research has integrity?
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Sure. I think that the large controlled trials have a passable degree of
integrity. They have been pushed as far as the pharmaceutical firms can
manage, no doubt. But there are limits to how far they can go.
I also think that most of the laboratory studies are valid. They are quickly
and easily confirmed or revealed as fraudulent, after all.
The advertising hype is, of course, enormous and attempts to make a pill as
indispensible as...well...Coke or Nikes. There's probably as much spent
advertising (in all its forms) Lipitor as there is spent on advertising the
junk food that probably causes the problem in the first place.
I do think that the constantly announced discoveries of new applications
based on observational studies are nothing but nonsense--essentially paid
advertising via a researcher lacking in both competence and integrity. These
studies--virtually all of them positive--are bogus.
As to the bird flu weapon business, the fact is that statins reduce
cytokines and that bird flu kills by stimulation of a rapid rise in
cytokines. I'd say it would be worth finding out whether statins would
really blunt the cytokine response in avian flu. I'm sure the statin
producers would like to sell more statins that way and that they have
probably burnished the idea as much as possible. But it makes enough sense
to be approved as a research study. And it isn't as if only statins still
under patent protection block cytokines.
| Quote: | And how would you characterize someone who believes that all research
related to statins (particularly when it is positive) is bogus.
|
I don't think anyone really fits that description. There's a distance
between lacking in integrity and bogus, for one thing.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
| Quote: | And how would you characterize someone who believes that all research
related to statins (particularly when it is positive) is bogus.
I don't think anyone really fits that description. There's a distance
between lacking in integrity and bogus, for one thing.
--
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Right, I certainly don't fit the description, but Listener the Pharma
Shill is consistent in applying mischaracterization to those whose views
and information he finds inconvenient.
I believe that *any* drug study in which the investigators and/or those
who regulate or review those drug studies for publication or approval
have financial stakes of any kind in the outcome are lacking integrity
and must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sick of finding out *after*
unsafe drugs have been on the market for years that they were never safe
as reported by pharma to begine with (HRT, Rezulin, LymeRix, Vioxx,
Celebrex...).
Statins are among those drugs whose reported results must be reviewed
with a sky high index of suspicion, particularly given their risks of
severe and lasting harm users.
Susan |
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trumpetfish@comcast.net
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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Susan wrote:
| Quote: | x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
And how would you characterize someone who believes that all research
related to statins (particularly when it is positive) is bogus.
I don't think anyone really fits that description. There's a distance
between lacking in integrity and bogus, for one thing.
--
Right, I certainly don't fit the description, but Listener the Pharma
Shill is consistent in applying mischaracterization to those whose views
and information he finds inconvenient.
I believe that *any* drug study in which the investigators and/or those
who regulate or review those drug studies for publication or approval
have financial stakes of any kind in the outcome are lacking integrity
and must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sick of finding out *after*
unsafe drugs have been on the market for years that they were never safe
as reported by pharma to begine with (HRT, Rezulin, LymeRix, Vioxx,
Celebrex...).
Statins are among those drugs whose reported results must be reviewed
with a sky high index of suspicion, particularly given their risks of
severe and lasting harm users.
Susan
|
Since the 911 tragedy and the hurricane threat, people have been
neglecting taking the statins and sales are down.....so.... weekly we
hear of the new magic and possible benefits of taking statins. (Lets
hear it for Zetia) I mean, we've gone to the treatment Alzheimer's,
cataracts, bird flu etc...in the effort to boost sales. (Show me the
money) Not to mention fats are our friend now. Total magic. |
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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trumpetfish@comcast.net wrote in news:1151077267.536616.289320
@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: |
Susan wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
And how would you characterize someone who believes that all
research
related to statins (particularly when it is positive) is bogus.
I don't think anyone really fits that description. There's a
distance
between lacking in integrity and bogus, for one thing.
--
Right, I certainly don't fit the description, but Listener the Pharma
Shill is consistent in applying mischaracterization to those whose
views
and information he finds inconvenient.
I believe that *any* drug study in which the investigators and/or
those
who regulate or review those drug studies for publication or approval
have financial stakes of any kind in the outcome are lacking integrity
and must be viewed with skepticism. I'm sick of finding out *after*
unsafe drugs have been on the market for years that they were never
safe
as reported by pharma to begine with (HRT, Rezulin, LymeRix, Vioxx,
Celebrex...).
Statins are among those drugs whose reported results must be reviewed
with a sky high index of suspicion, particularly given their risks of
severe and lasting harm users.
Susan
Since the 911 tragedy and the hurricane threat, people have been
neglecting taking the statins and sales are down.....so.... weekly we
hear of the new magic and possible benefits of taking statins. (Lets
hear it for Zetia) I mean, we've gone to the treatment Alzheimer's,
cataracts, bird flu etc...in the effort to boost sales. (Show me the
money) Not to mention fats are our friend now. Total magic.
|
I've heard 9/11 being used for all sorts of reasons but that's a new one.
Funny. You and Susan are the like the Laurel & Hardy of SMC.
L. |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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x-no-archive: yes
listener wrote:
| Quote: | I've heard 9/11 being used for all sorts of reasons but that's a new one.
Funny. You and Susan are the like the Laurel & Hardy of SMC.
|
You're very transparent and you're not fooling anyone.
You never post anything but drug promotions, unless you're attacking
anyone who questions them.
SHILL.
Susan |
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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Susan <nevermind@nomail.com> wrote in news:4g2h8fF1krmv7U2@individual.net:
| Quote: | x-no-archive: yes
listener wrote:
I've heard 9/11 being used for all sorts of reasons but that's a new
one.
Funny. You and Susan are the like the Laurel & Hardy of SMC.
You're very transparent and you're not fooling anyone.
You never post anything but drug promotions, unless you're attacking
anyone who questions them.
SHILL.
Susan
|
Who's attacking who?
You and Sharon are the Bad cop-Bad cop of SMC. You both whine about a *my*
perceived bias in what I post and accuse me of attacking you all while
posting from your own bias and attacking me. Fascinating.
L. |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Heart drugs might provide bird flu weapon
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x-no-archive: yes
listener wrote:
| Quote: | Who's attacking who?
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You can't whine about being attacked when someone responds to your
personal attacks.
| Quote: |
You and Sharon are the Bad cop-Bad cop of SMC.
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There you go again. You have no legitimate point to make, as usual,
just another attempt to mischaracterize someone who disagrees with you.
You both whine about a *my*
| Quote: | perceived bias in what I post and accuse me of attacking you all while
posting from your own bias and attacking me. Fascinating.
|
My only bias is toward getting the greatest health benefit with the
least risk of harm. I don''t care if that benefit comes from a
pharmaceutical drug or a plant in my neighbor's yard. I just want some
reliable evidence for it.
Again, you can't throw flames and then flounce off in a prissy huff when
someone chooses to respond.
Susan |
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