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ironjustice@aol.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1522
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 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject:
Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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S Afr Med J. 1999 Sep;89(9):966-72. Related Articles, Links
Measurements of iron status and survival in African iron overload.
MacPhail AP, Mandishona EM, Bloom PD, Paterson AC, Rouault TA, Gordeuk
VR.
Department of Medicine, University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg.
INTRODUCTION: Dietary iron overload is common in southern Africa and
there is a misconception that the condition is benign. Early
descriptions of the condition relied on autopsy studies, and the use of
indirect measurements of iron status to diagnose this form of iron
overload has not been clarified. METHODS: The study involved 22 black
subjects found to have iron overload on liver biopsy. Fourteen subjects
presented to hospital with liver disease and were found to have iron
overload on percutaneous liver biopsy. Eight subjects, drawn from a
family study, underwent liver biopsy because of elevated serum ferritin
concentrations suggestive of iron overload. Indirect measurements of
iron status (transferrin saturation, serum ferritin) were performed on
all subjects. Histological iron grade and hepatic iron concentration
were used as direct measures of iron status. RESULTS: There were no
significant differences in either direct or indirect measurements of
iron status between the two groups. In 75% of these subjects the
hepatic iron concentration was greater than 350 micrograms/g dry
weight, an extreme elevation associated with a high risk of fibrosis
and cirrhosis. Serum ferritin was elevated in all subjects and the
transferrin saturation was greater than 60% in 93% of the subjects.
Hepatomegaly was present in 20 of the 22 cases and there was only a
moderate derangement in liver enzymes except for a tenfold increase in
the median gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase concentration. There was a
strong correlation between serum ferritin and hepatic iron
concentrations (r = 0.71, P = 0.006). After a median follow-up of 19
months, 6 (26%) of the subjects had died. The risk of mortality
correlated significantly with both the hepatic iron concentration and
the serum ferritin concentration. CONCLUSIONS: Indirect measurements of
iron status (serum ferritin concentration and transferrin saturation)
are useful in the diagnosis of African dietary iron overload. When
dietary iron overload becomes symptomatic it has a high mortality.
Measures to prevent and treat this condition are needed.
PMID: 10554633 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |
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PeterB
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | S Afr Med J. 1999 Sep;89(9):966-72. Related Articles, Links
Measurements of iron status and survival in African iron overload.
MacPhail AP, Mandishona EM, Bloom PD, Paterson AC, Rouault TA, Gordeuk
VR.
Department of Medicine, University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg.
INTRODUCTION: Dietary iron overload is common in southern Africa and
there is a misconception that the condition is benign. Early
descriptions of the condition relied on autopsy studies, and the use of
indirect measurements of iron status to diagnose this form of iron
overload has not been clarified. METHODS: The study involved 22 black
subjects found to have iron overload on liver biopsy. Fourteen subjects
presented to hospital with liver disease and were found to have iron
overload on percutaneous liver biopsy. Eight subjects, drawn from a
family study, underwent liver biopsy because of elevated serum ferritin
concentrations suggestive of iron overload. Indirect measurements of
iron status (transferrin saturation, serum ferritin) were performed on
all subjects. Histological iron grade and hepatic iron concentration
were used as direct measures of iron status. RESULTS: There were no
significant differences in either direct or indirect measurements of
iron status between the two groups. In 75% of these subjects the
hepatic iron concentration was greater than 350 micrograms/g dry
weight, an extreme elevation associated with a high risk of fibrosis
and cirrhosis. Serum ferritin was elevated in all subjects and the
transferrin saturation was greater than 60% in 93% of the subjects.
Hepatomegaly was present in 20 of the 22 cases and there was only a
moderate derangement in liver enzymes except for a tenfold increase in
the median gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase concentration. There was a
strong correlation between serum ferritin and hepatic iron
concentrations (r = 0.71, P = 0.006). After a median follow-up of 19
months, 6 (26%) of the subjects had died. The risk of mortality
correlated significantly with both the hepatic iron concentration and
the serum ferritin concentration. CONCLUSIONS: Indirect measurements of
iron status (serum ferritin concentration and transferrin saturation)
are useful in the diagnosis of African dietary iron overload. When
dietary iron overload becomes symptomatic it has a high mortality.
Measures to prevent and treat this condition are needed.
PMID: 10554633 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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There is a lot this study doesn't tell us, however. When it says, for
instance, that "when dietary iron overload becomes symptomatic it has a
high mortality...," we are not told what the diets of these individuals
were, their proportions of carbohydrate intake to protein, their
medical histories, or what medications they may have been taking.
There is no mention of DNA testing, either, so we don't know what
genetic factors may have predisposed them to this. Once again, no
study proves that vegetarianism is right for everyone, just that iron
is a tricky mineral. If the message is to eat less meat, that's
certainly good advice for most westerners.
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ironjustice@aol.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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PeterB wrote:
| Quote: | Once again, no
study proves that vegetarianism is right for everyone, just that iron
is a tricky mineral.
|
Yes it .. does .. though ..
| Quote: | If the message is to eat less meat, that's
certainly good advice for most westerners.
|
The article .. seems .. to SPECIFICALLY show a DIRECT result OF
increased iron by DIETARY means.
The iron from MEAT has been SHOWN to be the ONLY type of iron which is
UNCONTROLLED in its' .. absorption.
And since the increased iron is KNOWN to increase incidence of ..
mortality .. then one can conclude .. "a food substance ingested by man
leads to increased mortality. This food substance appears to be meat.
Due to its' KNOWN absorption properties."
Therefore .. the 'argument/debate' .. OF .. 'whether man IS a herbivore
or not .. HAS to begin WITH .. "meat is known to cause increased
mortality in humans" .. therefore beginning with the argument OF .. "a
food which kills human beings is a NORMAL food for that human being" ..
Which in my way of thinking .. is .. "look at me .. I .. am .. stupid
... "
But .. hey ..
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |
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babawali@world.com
medicine forum addict
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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Old news, iron overload can have health risks. The question is what is
overload. An interesting question is what percentage of the iron in their
bodies was plant derived and added to the increased risk level? |
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PeterB
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | PeterB wrote:
Once again, no
study proves that vegetarianism is right for everyone, just that iron
is a tricky mineral.
Yes it .. does .. though ..
If the message is to eat less meat, that's
certainly good advice for most westerners.
The article .. seems .. to SPECIFICALLY show a DIRECT result OF
increased iron by DIETARY means.
|
Here is something relevant to that particular population, from
http://www.irondisorders.org/Disorders/Siderosis.asp.
African iron overload (AIO) (previously known as African siderosis) is
a condition observed in sub-Saharan Africans. It is characterized by
the accumulation of large amounts of iron in the reticuloendothelial
cells of the liver, spleen and bone marrow as well as in hepatocytes.
While the distribution of iron differs from that seen in classical type
1 haemochromatosisas, organ dysfunction and high levels of body iron of
similar magnitude may be found in AIO. AIO was thought to be solely due
to the consumption of a traditional beer contaminated with iron. The
beer has a high lactic acid content which is thought to be the reason
why iron is leached out of the iron containers in which it is brewed.
The iron concentrations can be as high as 80 to 100 mg per litre and,
as the alcohol content is low (1 to 3%), consumption of several litres
per day is possible. Recent work has suggested that a genetic defect in
iron regulation, together with high dietary iron consumption may be
responsible for AIO. A defect in the iron transporter ferroportin,
responsible for iron release from the gut and reticuloendothelial
cells, is thought to be a possible cause. A mutation in the ferroportin
1 gene has been found to be common in populations of West and Southern
African origin and is associated with a tendency to higher serum
ferritin levels. Other mutations of this gene are associated with iron
overload with a similar tissue distribution to that seen in AIO.
"Risk Groups: Anyone of African descent. Iron overload is a common
condition in Africa where the prevalence of excessive body iron
sufficient to cause liver damage affects as many as 10% of the
population in some areas."
Thus, eating meat would not be the causative factor for AIO in this
population.
| Quote: | The iron from MEAT has been SHOWN to be the ONLY type of iron which is
UNCONTROLLED in its' .. absorption.
|
The fact it's utilized more efficiently at the cell level doesn't mean
it's "uncontrolled." The fact it is over-consumed in western society
also doesn't mean everyone is genetically adapted to being complete
herbivores. A number of our ancestors consumed meat, and we have to
have genes expressing for it. Some sources say we lose about 1mg of
iron per day in our hair and nails. That would imply a very small need
for this mineral. I would suggest the USDA RDI for iron is about x4.5
times too high for meat eaters, and about x1.8 times too high for
vegetarians (based on 10% and 25% iron absorption rates and an RDI of
18mg.) Even this can vary by individual, of course.
| Quote: | And since the increased iron is KNOWN to increase incidence of ..
mortality .. then one can conclude .. "a food substance ingested by man
leads to increased mortality. This food substance appears to be meat.
Due to its' KNOWN absorption properties."
|
We have far more studies linking iron deficiency to disease than iron
overload. Both are problems in various demographics, for obviously
different reasons.
| Quote: | Therefore .. the 'argument/debate' .. OF .. 'whether man IS a herbivore
or not .. HAS to begin WITH .. "meat is known to cause increased
mortality in humans" .. therefore beginning with the argument OF .. "a
food which kills human beings is a NORMAL food for that human being" ..
|
It's true that vegetarians have fewer heart attacks than their
meat-eating counterparts. Unfortunately, we have very few studies
relating this to specific levels of meat intake, whereas reduced cancer
and heart disease risk are related to higher levels of fruit intake.
| Quote: | From a genetic standpoint, what is optimal for one is not optimal for
another. Adulteration of animals foods is also a factor in health |
outcomes. Use of chemicals, steroids, and unnatural feeding practices
in farmed animals affects EFA levels, effecting the health of the
animals and humans who eat them.
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ironjustice@aol.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:51 am Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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PeterB wrote:
| Quote: |
"Risk Groups: Anyone of African descent. Iron overload is a common
condition in Africa where the prevalence of excessive body iron
sufficient to cause liver damage affects as many as 10% of the
population in some areas."
Thus, eating meat would not be the causative factor for AIO in this
population.
|
Your right ... it wouldn't .. IF .. the hypothesis of .. genetic .. is
correct .. but .. since it HASN'T been .. proven .. but the absorption
of MEAT iron / heme iron .. HAS .. 'tends to accumulate in the body" ..
then the dietary iron excess STILL holds ..
| Quote: |
The iron from MEAT has been SHOWN to be the ONLY type of iron which is
UNCONTROLLED in its' .. absorption.
The fact it's utilized more efficiently at the cell level doesn't mean
it's "uncontrolled."
|
Absorption .. past the gut .. is uncontrolled .. THAT is the 'point' of
'no return' ..
The body controls the amount of iron it has in its' .. stores .. and
just keeps this level / pool topped up and downregulates the absorption
of iron at the GUT .. level.
The body has no method to eliminate iron from the body once it is
absorbed.
| Quote: | The fact it is over-consumed in western society
|
The first bite of meat you have at one year old causes you to absorb
MUCH more iron than you would have the day before .. then the next day
you absorb again and as long as you continue to eat meat you will have
abnormal levels of iron in the body and these levels will continue to
rise.
| Quote: | also doesn't mean everyone is genetically adapted to being complete
herbivores.
|
If a substance .. "tends to accumulate " .. in a 'closed' system that
substance will eventually completely fill the system.
And if that substance is KNOWN to cause disease then one cannot argue
that substance is natural for that animal.
| Quote: | We have far more studies linking iron deficiency to disease than iron
overload.
|
An iron deficiency that has been recently shown to NOT .. exist .. in
fact .. BECAUSE the anemia they THOUGHT was iron deficiency is in FACT
... not .. but IS ... in fact the body withholding iron from the
invaders/pathogens.
| Quote: | Both are problems in various demographics, for obviously
different reasons.
|
Iron deficiency doesn't exist.
| Quote: | From a genetic standpoint, what is optimal for one is not optimal for
another.
|
Foods for body type .. ?
Your argument now BEING .. there are those who will die / become ill if
they do not eat meat.
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GMCarter
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:46 am Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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On 12 Jun 2006 11:25:39 -0700, "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
S Afr Med J. 1999 Sep;89(9):966-72. Related Articles, Links
Measurements of iron status and survival in African iron overload.
There is a lot this study doesn't tell us, however.
|
Actually, this isn't the study but just the abstract. What would be
great would be to review the entire paper where some of the important
questions you raise may be answered.
Whether the source is beer and/or meat, encouraging dietary changes is
always a challenge. How to empower people to recognize they have
choices and to make them consciously, with awareness of risks, is one
general approach.
George M. Carter |
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babawali@world.com
medicine forum addict
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:43 am Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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"The iron from MEAT has been SHOWN to be the ONLY type of iron which is
| Quote: | UNCONTROLLED in its' .. absorption."
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No, it can and is controlled, end of iron causes all disease because
people eat meat notion. |
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PeterB
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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ironjustice@aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | PeterB wrote:
"Risk Groups: Anyone of African descent. Iron overload is a common
condition in Africa where the prevalence of excessive body iron
sufficient to cause liver damage affects as many as 10% of the
population in some areas."
Thus, eating meat would not be the causative factor for AIO in this
population.
Your right ... it wouldn't .. IF .. the hypothesis of .. genetic .. is
correct .. but .. since it HASN'T been .. proven .. but the absorption
of MEAT iron / heme iron .. HAS .. 'tends to accumulate in the body" ..
then the dietary iron excess STILL holds ..
|
Genetic-based iron overload has been proven, that's why those of
African descent are more susceptible.
| Quote: |
The iron from MEAT has been SHOWN to be the ONLY type of iron which is
UNCONTROLLED in its' .. absorption.
The fact it's utilized more efficiently at the cell level doesn't mean
it's "uncontrolled."
Absorption .. past the gut .. is uncontrolled .. THAT is the 'point' of
'no return' ..
|
Haem iron isn't 100% absorbed, however. Through intestinal
inhibitition of one or more iron transporters, hepcidin regulates haem
and non-haem iron alike. And just like non-haem iron, its absorption
varies by individual, falling between 20-30%. It's true you can
overwhelm the body's natural regulatory mechanisms, but that's just as
true for zinc, calcium, and selenium.
| Quote: | The body controls the amount of iron it has in its' .. stores .. and
just keeps this level / pool topped up and downregulates the absorption
of iron at the GUT .. level.
The body has no method to eliminate iron from the body once it is
absorbed.
|
Actually, we lose about 1mg iron through normal processes each day.
http://www.ibms.org/index.cfm?method=science.haematology&subpage=haematology_iron_deficiency_anaemia
| Quote: |
The fact it is over-consumed in western society
The first bite of meat you have at one year old causes you to absorb
MUCH more iron than you would have the day before .. then the next day
you absorb again and as long as you continue to eat meat you will have
abnormal levels of iron in the body and these levels will continue to
rise.
|
My personal view is that red meat should not be consumed more than 3
times a week.
| Quote: | also doesn't mean everyone is genetically adapted to being complete
herbivores.
If a substance .. "tends to accumulate " .. in a 'closed' system that
substance will eventually completely fill the system.
|
It's not really a closed system, it's just very input sensitive. We
don't actually know the point at which excess iron becomes problematic,
either. And too little iron is just as harmful as too much.
| Quote: | And if that substance is KNOWN to cause disease then one cannot argue
that substance is natural for that animal.
|
That argument can be applied to drugs, but not nutrients. Too much of
any nutrient creates imbalance by synergizing or antagonizing other
nutrients and potentially causing disease. Despite that negative
potential, all nutrients are natural and required. What you are
questioning is whether haem iron is a nutrient, and I respect your view
that it isn't. I just don't agree with it.
| Quote: | We have far more studies linking iron deficiency to disease than iron
overload.
An iron deficiency that has been recently shown to NOT .. exist .. in
fact .. BECAUSE the anemia they THOUGHT was iron deficiency is in FACT
.. not .. but IS ... in fact the body withholding iron from the
invaders/pathogens.
|
??
| Quote: | Both are problems in various demographics, for obviously
different reasons.
Iron deficiency doesn't exist.
|
Deficiencies in every nutrient exists somewhere, in someone. The
reasons for such deficiencies vary widely.
| Quote: | From a genetic standpoint, what is optimal for one is not optimal for
another.
Foods for body type .. ?
|
I think you mean blood type (ie., Peter Adamo). I would just say it's
genetic based.
| Quote: | Your argument now BEING .. there are those who will die / become ill if
they do not eat meat.
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No, since iron is available in plant foods. B12 is the bigger problem.
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babawali@world.com
medicine forum addict
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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If in some parts of the population of sub sahara africa iron levels are
high it is not for having eaten meat. The diet for most of sub sahara
africa is very close to vegitarian with very high intake of grains and
tubers etc. and little meat eaten in very small amounts or only on special
occasions. We must then ask what is the cause of this. At the same time
that area is also one with low iron in many people to the point of it
being a health problem. |
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ironjustice@aol.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:49 am Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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PeterB wrote:>
| Quote: | Genetic-based iron overload has been proven, that's why those of
African descent are more susceptible.
|
Hinted / suggested .. but NOT .. 'proven' ..
Iron overload in Sub-Saharan Africa: to what extent is it a public
health problem?
Authors: Walker A.R.P.*; Segal I.1
Source: British Journal of Nutrition, Volume 81, Number 6, 1999, pp.
427-434(8)
Publisher: CABI Publishing
Abstract:
Excessive deposition of Fe in the organs and tissues of Sub-Saharan
Africans was first described in South Africa in 1929. Fe overload, or
siderosis, was initially attributed to infections and to metallic
poisoning (Cu, Sn, Zn), and then to malnutrition. In 1953 it was
hypothesized that it was due primarily to excessive Fe intake derived
from foods and drinks prepared in Fe vessels. Recently, in 1992 it was
advanced that a gene distinct from any HLA-linked locus may also play a
role. As to sequelae, in early research on series of hospital patients,
the condition was linked to scurvy, osteoporosis, diabetes, cirrhosis,
and latterly, to hepatocellular cancer and tuberculosis. Accordingly,
many have concluded that Fe overload is responsible for considerable
morbidity and mortality, that adventitious Fe intake should be reduced,
and that phlebotomy be recommended for those severely affected.
However, there are numerous limitations in the evidence. There are also
problems in interpretation, since levels of Fe in the serum are
affected additionally by a variety of factors: infection, inflammation,
certain cancers and alcohol intake. These considerations complicate
attempts to assess to what extent the associations described denote
causation, and whether Fe overload has significant ramifications for
ill in the general African population. While the adverse sequelae of
overload may be less of significance than many believe, the precise
pathogenicity of the phenomenon will remain uncertain until further
investigations, including prospective studies, are undertaken.
Keywords: Iron overload; Africa; Cirrhosis; Hepatocellular carcinoma
Language: English
Document Type: Research article
Affiliations: 1: Gastroenterology Unit, Department of Medicine,
Baragwanath Hospital and the University of the Witwatersrand,
Johannesburg 2000, South Africa
| Quote: |
My personal view is that red meat should not be consumed more than 3
times a week.
|
Sooo .. in effect you are .. limiting your iron overload .. BUT .. not
... eliminating it.
..
| Quote: |
If a substance .. "tends to accumulate " .. in a 'closed' system that
substance will eventually completely fill the system.
It's not really a closed system, it's just very input sensitive. We
don't actually know the point at which excess iron becomes problematic,
either. |
I believe the last study found 25% saturation of transferrin is the
'point' at which the body begins to DOWNREGULATE the active absorption
... process ..
| Quote: | And too little iron is just as harmful as too much.
|
Which has never been proven .. because .. ? .. there simply haven't
BEEN enough people who are .. iron deficient .. to PROVE .. anything.
Why .. ? because 'they' have JUST .. admitted to NOT .. 'being able' to
... JUDGE whether one is iron deficient or NOT ..
Because what they THOUGHT was iron deficiency .. is NOT .. iron
deficiency ..
<<snip>>
This finding suggests that the contribution of
iron deficiency to pregnancy associated anemia in this region is *low*.
<<snip>>
| Quote: | We have far more studies linking iron deficiency to disease than iron
overload.
An iron deficiency that has been recently shown to NOT .. exist .. in
fact .. BECAUSE the anemia they THOUGHT was iron deficiency is in FACT
.. not .. but IS ... in fact the body withholding iron from the
invaders/pathogens.
??
|
They have recently tested for SPECIFIC .. 'iron deficiency' .. and
FOUND .. contrary to what they have ALWAYS believed .. that the
apparent iron deficiency they 'thought' existed .. doesn't .. exist ..
The apparent iron deficiency was NOT iron deficiency at all .. but is
UNUTILIZED .. iron ..
<<snip>>
This finding suggests that the contribution of
iron deficiency to pregnancy associated anemia in this region is *low*.
<<snip>>
Blood Cells Mol Dis. 2006 Jun 2; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Thalassemia and hemoglobinopathies rather than iron deficiency are
major causes of pregnancy-related anemia in northeast Thailand.
Sanchaisuriya K, Fucharoen S, Ratanasiri T, Sanchaisuriya P, Fucharoen
G, Dietz E, Schelp FP.
The Graduate School of Khon Kaen University, Khon Kaen, Thailand;
Centre for Research and Development of Medical Diagnostic Laboratories,
Faculty of Associated Medical Sciences, Khon Kaen University, Khon
Kaen, Thailand 40002.
A cross-sectional prevalence study of anemia was undertaken on 412
pregnant women in northeast Thailand during January 2003 to May 2004.
With standardized diagnostic protocols and the CDC criteria of anemia
[hemoglobin (Hb) <11 g/dl at </=12 weeks of gestation and Hb <10.5 g/dl
at </=20 weeks of gestation], 71 (17.2%) subjects were anemic. Of
these, 42 (59.2%) subjects had thalassemia, 5 (7.0%) had iron
deficiency, 18 (25.4%) had combined thalassemia and iron deficiency and
6 (8.5%) had no thalassemia nor iron deficiency. Adjusted logistic
regression analyses indicated that various thalassemia genotypes were
significantly related to anemia, while homozygous Hb E had the highest
risk with an odds ratio (OR) of 44.8 (95% CI 12.6-159.7). In
comparison, iron deficiency demonstrated a much lower risk with OR of
3.1 (95% CI 1.4-6. . This finding suggests that the contribution of
iron deficiency to pregnancy associated anemia in this region is low.
PMID: 16750922 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Quote: |
Deficiencies in every nutrient exists somewhere, in someone. The
reasons for such deficiencies vary widely.
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*Impossible* to deplete seven months worth of iron without .. dying ..
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GMCarter
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:40 am Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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On 13 Jun 2006 20:49:49 -0700, "ironjustice@aol.com"
<ironjustice@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
PeterB wrote:
Genetic-based iron overload has been proven, that's why those of
African descent are more susceptible.
Hinted / suggested .. but NOT .. 'proven' ..
|
Then none of your arguments are worth anything because NONE of them
have been "proven."
Just that there is a greater or lesser amount of evidence.
Iron deficiency can exist. Iron overload can exist. Individual
responses vary widely because humans are not all the same.
So using terms like "proven" in this context are a little silly.
There is an art to medicine, an art to living. Data and observation
may help to enhance the practice of either. But they may also obstruct
and confuse if initial premises are inaccurate.
George M. Carter |
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ironjustice@aol.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1522
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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GMCarter wrote:
| Quote: |
Then none of your arguments are worth anything because NONE of them
have been "proven."
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The study PROVES iron overload DUE TO .. diet ..
They 'say' .. genetics .. 'may' be involved ..
Dietary is .. PROVEN ..
Unless you can figure somehow ELSE the iron got into their .. system ..
?
I will bet a real smart guy like you can .. figure .. it .. out ..
"absorb it through the soles of their feet because they have no shoes"
...
There you can use that one .. that came right from the mouth of some of
... your .. cohorts .. the 'artsy' type of medical practitioner ..
Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |
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PeterB
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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GMCarter wrote:
| Quote: | On 13 Jun 2006 20:49:49 -0700, "ironjustice@aol.com"
ironjustice@aol.com> wrote:
PeterB wrote:
Genetic-based iron overload has been proven, that's why those of
African descent are more susceptible.
Hinted / suggested .. but NOT .. 'proven' ..
Then none of your arguments are worth anything because NONE of them
have been "proven."
Just that there is a greater or lesser amount of evidence.
|
I've often made that argument to our resident pharma bloggers, who
repeatedly call for "proof." The fact they have none of their own is
telling. Of course, Tom isn't one of them, but his allegiance to vegan
ideology leads him to think that way. The irony, of course, is that he
isn't far from the truth in terms of dietary science, just in terms of
nutritional science.
| Quote: | Iron deficiency can exist. Iron overload can exist. Individual
responses vary widely because humans are not all the same.
So using terms like "proven" in this context are a little silly.
There is an art to medicine, an art to living. Data and observation
may help to enhance the practice of either. But they may also obstruct
and confuse if initial premises are inaccurate.
|
Be careful, George. The truth gets you into trouble around here. 
> George M. Carter |
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GMCarter
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:19 am Post subject:
Re: Dietary iron overload has a high mortality
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On 14 Jun 2006 06:19:50 -0700, "ironjustice@aol.com"
<ironjustice@aol.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
GMCarter wrote:
Then none of your arguments are worth anything because NONE of them
have been "proven."
The study PROVES iron overload DUE TO .. diet ..
|
Nope. Just provides strong evidence in some populations for a risk of
dietary iron overload.
George M. Carter |
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