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Vic Sagerquist
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 204
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 Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Jesus == Hate
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet James
(bireda@allvantage.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
| Quote: | To modern man, sounds like he has it out for the whole family. But was
Jesus speaking these words to modern man, or ancient Jews? The key
question is, what did Jesus mean by the word "hate"?
In the Bible, the word "hate" has several shades of meaning; one of
which is to mean loving to a lesser degree. For example see Ge
29:30,31. We can't just ignore the original meanings of the Hebrew and
Greek words used at that time. The meaning of Lu 14:26 becomes
apparent when we look at Jesus' statement at Mt 10:37,
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What a crock. The bible says what it says. It meant a lot to those of
little knowledge, especially those who could not read and had to take the
pastor's word for it that that was what was written. When the common man
learned to read, the bible was in great demand. The church actually
tried to stop it from being printed, when it could no longer keep people
wallowing in stupidity. The church itself had to learn, in order to stay
a step ahead of the growth of intelligence. One way it has done so is
reflected in your post here - to change the meanings of the words that
were written to make them more palatable to a modern society.
If that isn't lying, I don't know what is.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
The laws that require me to NOT kill people I don't like REALLY bug
me, or there would be many less of YOUR kind.
-John Weatherly |
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Vic Sagerquist
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Jesus == Hate
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Eric Brze
(brze@no.spam.mail.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
| Quote: | Ever consider that sometimes <BUS> the greatest love is "hate"?
What would we say when we <BUS> want our family members to be much
better than they <BUS> are? We say we hate them. What would we <BUS
say when we want our own life to be much <BUS> better in serving BUS
than it already is? We say we hate ourBUSselves.
When love is deep enough, it <BUS> is "hate", right? 
|
There. I think that makes more sense.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
The laws that require me to NOT kill people I don't like REALLY bug
me, or there would be many less of YOUR kind.
-John Weatherly |
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Stephen Knight
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:07 am Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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On 30 Jun 2006 10:48:35 -0700, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<nospam8@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Have you accepted your failure at converting atheists to
christianity?
You are ridiculed, mocked and pointed at with laughter on
alt.atheism. How do you cope?
Can you say 'anything' in response that isn't sucking the choir
cock?
Warlord Steve
BAAWA |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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Stephen Knight wrote:
| Quote: | On 30 Jun 2006 10:48:35 -0700, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
nospam8@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Have you accepted your failure at converting atheists to
christianity?
|
The LORD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either
convert or convince as is the purpose of HIS four horsemen.
| Quote: | You are ridiculed, mocked and pointed at with laughter on
alt.atheism. How do you cope?
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Very well with the LORD's help.
| Quote: | Can you say 'anything' in response that isn't sucking the choir
cock?
|
Yes. It is written that what is impossible for man is possible for man
**with** GOD (Matthew 19:26).
Still praying for you, dear Steve.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife |
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wbarwell
medicine forum addict
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Still no miracles!
Where are these damned miracles?
********************************************
John 14:12-14
12: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
believeth on me, the works that I do shall he
do also; and greater works than these shall
he do; because I go unto my Father.
13: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name,
that will I do, that the Father may be glorified
in the Son
14: If ye shall ask any thing in my name,
I will do it.
Mark 11:23-4
For verily I say this unto you, That
whosoever shall say unto this mountain,
Be thou removed, and be thou cast
into the sea; and shall not doubt
in his heart, but shall believe that
those things which he saith shall
come to pass; he shall have whatsoever
he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What
things soever ye desire, when ye pray,
believe ye receive them and ye shall have
them.
Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask
in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matthew 18:19-20
Again I say unto you, that if two of you
shall agree on earth as touching anything
that they shall ask, it shall be done for
them of my father which is in heaven. For
where two or three are gathered in my name,
there I am in the midst of them.
***********************************************
--
Join the anti-willful-religious-stupidity brigade today.
You will be glad you did.
Our motto: Slap! "Wake up stupid!"
Cheerful Charlie |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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wbarwell wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Still no miracles!
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It seems you have not surfed the link below my sig.
Still praying for you, dear William.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife |
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Rev. Karl E. Taylor
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
| Quote: | wbarwell wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Still no miracles!
It seems you have not surfed the link below my sig.
Still praying for you, dear William.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife
Yeah, read it. |
Still no miracles.
You are a failure Andy, a complete failure. You really need to stop
posting your foolishness, it just makes you look bad.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor ktayloraz@getnet.net
A.A #1143 a=45, m=23, f=20
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________ |
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Dr. Ernst Primer (again)
medicine forum addict
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Matthew 18:20
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Scott Richter wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
If that were true, someone would be able to produce either HIS remains
or point to where HE is buried or at least refute the provided proof:
So, are you saying Jimmy Hoffa ISN'T dead?
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Good point. |
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Stephen Knight
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:39 am Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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On 1 Jul 2006 05:37:56 -0700, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Stephen Knight wrote:
On 30 Jun 2006 10:48:35 -0700, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
nospam8@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Have you accepted your failure at converting atheists to
christianity?
The LORD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either
convert or convince as is the purpose of HIS four horsemen.
You are ridiculed, mocked and pointed at with laughter on
alt.atheism. How do you cope?
Very well with the LORD's help.
Can you say 'anything' in response that isn't sucking the choir
cock?
Yes. It is written that what is impossible for man is possible for man
**with** GOD (Matthew 19:26).
|
I asked you to reply without sucking the choir cock and what do
you do? You masturbate scripture.
Ho hum....
Never a straight answer. Just superstitious vernacular intended for
the sheep and laughed at by atheists.
I really can't blame you. You're locked into the brainwashing. All
the superstitious are inept at speaking to atheists. It's a Truth.
You're a great weasel though. You're smart enough not to get
cornered in a stated lie. You know enough about atheists to know you'd
get your ass handed to you in a basket.
We call that 'Smarmy'.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA |
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bob young
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:28 am Post subject:
Re: Jesus == Hate
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James wrote:
| Quote: | Re: Jesus == Hate>"Yang, AthD (h.c),
snip
eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 21:27:51 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
"For where two or three come together in MY name, there am I with them."
-- LORD Jesus Christ
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his
wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes, even his own life-he
cannot be my disciple."
-Jesus, Luke 14:26
Hello,
To modern man, sounds like he has it out for the whole family. But was
Jesus speaking these words to modern man, or ancient Jews? The key
question is, what did Jesus mean by the word "hate"?
|
You should be asking is
'what did the story writers mean ninety odd years later when they had their
Jesus say the word 'hate'.
A very different thing. There is nothing anywhere that shows what a man
claimed to be Jesus ever said - nothing other than mythology
.........anything to the contrary simply comes from brain washed fundies
| Quote: |
In the Bible, the word "hate" has several shades of meaning; one of
which is to mean loving to a lesser degree. For example see Ge
29:30,31. We can't just ignore the original meanings of the Hebrew and
Greek words used at that time. The meaning of Lu 14:26 becomes
apparent when we look at Jesus' statement at Mt 10:37,
" He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is
not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or
daughter than for me is not worthy of me."
Yes, Jesus is telling us that if we have more love for a family member
than we have for Jesus, then Jesus would not accept us. Why? Because
the family member could induce us to sin against God. That is what
happened to Adam when he listened to his wife Eve. He apparently had
more love for her than for God. Because he did not love Eve less than
God, he also sinned, and lost for himself everlasting life on a
garden-like earth. What a high price to pay for misdirected love.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
*********************************** |
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bob young
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 66
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:31 am Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
| Quote: | Stephen Knight wrote:
On 30 Jun 2006 10:48:35 -0700, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
nospam8@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Have you accepted your failure at converting atheists to
christianity?
The LORD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either
convert or convince as is the purpose of HIS four horsemen.
|
no 'Lord' ever gave you a purpose, the only 'purpose' yopu have is from
other humans that brainwashed you. They in turn were also brainwashed by
others.
Is you mind so cluttered with mumbo jumbo you cannot see that?
v
| Quote: |
You are ridiculed, mocked and pointed at with laughter on
alt.atheism. How do you cope?
Very well with the LORD's help.
Can you say 'anything' in response that isn't sucking the choir
cock?
Yes. It is written that what is impossible for man is possible for man
**with** GOD (Matthew 19:26).
Still praying for you, dear Steve.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife |
|
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bob young
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 66
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:33 am Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
|
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wbarwell wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Still no miracles!
Where are these damned miracles?
|
They only happened under a 'state of convenience '
thousands of years ago
when they could not be verified.
Today there are no miracles
like men walking in water
and cripples picking up their beds and walking
What does that tell a sane person?
| Quote: |
********************************************
John 14:12-14
12: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
believeth on me, the works that I do shall he
do also; and greater works than these shall
he do; because I go unto my Father.
13: And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name,
that will I do, that the Father may be glorified
in the Son
14: If ye shall ask any thing in my name,
I will do it.
Mark 11:23-4
For verily I say this unto you, That
whosoever shall say unto this mountain,
Be thou removed, and be thou cast
into the sea; and shall not doubt
in his heart, but shall believe that
those things which he saith shall
come to pass; he shall have whatsoever
he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What
things soever ye desire, when ye pray,
believe ye receive them and ye shall have
them.
Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask
in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matthew 18:19-20
Again I say unto you, that if two of you
shall agree on earth as touching anything
that they shall ask, it shall be done for
them of my father which is in heaven. For
where two or three are gathered in my name,
there I am in the midst of them.
***********************************************
--
Join the anti-willful-religious-stupidity brigade today.
You will be glad you did.
Our motto: Slap! "Wake up stupid!"
Cheerful Charlie |
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bob young
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 66
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:36 am Post subject:
Re: Marana tha !
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"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
| Quote: | wbarwell wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Still no miracles!
It seems you have not surfed the link below my sig.
Still praying for you, dear William.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
|
Christs amazing love does not help you one little bit
in your struggle to explain to the average atheists why
there were
outstanding 'walking on water' type miracles thousands of
years ago
and none today.
Ask Jesus to explain, since it seems you have his direct
line.
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bob young
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 66
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:39 am Post subject:
Re: Jesus == Hate
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Eric Brze wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:42:42 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com
wrote:
Re: Jesus == Hate>"Yang, AthD (h.c),
snip
eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 21:27:51 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
"For where two or three come together in MY name, there am I with them."
-- LORD Jesus Christ
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his
wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes, even his own life-he
cannot be my disciple."
-Jesus, Luke 14:26
Hello,
To modern man, sounds like he has it out for the whole family. But was
Jesus speaking these words to modern man, or ancient Jews? The key
question is, what did Jesus mean by the word "hate"?
Ever consider that sometimes the greatest love is "hate"?
What would we say when we want our family members to be much better
than they are? We say we hate them. What would we say when we want our
own life to be much better in serving God than it already is? We say
we hate ourselves.
When love is deep enough, it is "hate", right?
|
Wrong, as usual you struggle to make sense out of your primitive myth - give
up - if you live to be a hundred you will change nothing, only you can change.
I would never never tell my child i hate it in order to encourage him to do
something.
| Quote: |
In the Bible, the word "hate" has several shades of meaning; one of
which is to mean loving to a lesser degree. For example see Ge
29:30,31. We can't just ignore the original meanings of the Hebrew and
Greek words used at that time. The meaning of Lu 14:26 becomes
apparent when we look at Jesus' statement at Mt 10:37,
" He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is
not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or
daughter than for me is not worthy of me."
Yes, Jesus is telling us that if we have more love for a family member
than we have for Jesus, then Jesus would not accept us. Why? Because
the family member could induce us to sin against God. That is what
happened to Adam when he listened to his wife Eve. He apparently had
more love for her than for God. Because he did not love Eve less than
God, he also sinned, and lost for himself everlasting life on a
garden-like earth. What a high price to pay for misdirected love.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
*********************************** |
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Eric Brze
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:17 am Post subject:
Re: Jesus == Hate
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On 1 Jul 2006 23:39:05 -0500, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Eric Brze wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:42:42 -0400, James <bireda@allvantage.com
wrote:
Re: Jesus == Hate>"Yang, AthD (h.c),
snip
eacmole@/*AWOLBUSH*/mail.com
On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 21:27:51 -0400, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
"For where two or three come together in MY name, there am I with them."
-- LORD Jesus Christ
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his
wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes, even his own life-he
cannot be my disciple."
-Jesus, Luke 14:26
Hello,
To modern man, sounds like he has it out for the whole family. But was
Jesus speaking these words to modern man, or ancient Jews? The key
question is, what did Jesus mean by the word "hate"?
Ever consider that sometimes the greatest love is "hate"?
What would we say when we want our family members to be much better
than they are? We say we hate them. What would we say when we want our
own life to be much better in serving God than it already is? We say
we hate ourselves.
When love is deep enough, it is "hate", right? :-)
Wrong, as usual you struggle to make sense out of your primitive myth - give
up - if you live to be a hundred you will change nothing, only you can change.
I would never never tell my child i hate it in order to encourage him to do
something.
|
We "hate" those we love the most not because we want to encourage them
to do something. We "hate" them because we don't know how to love them
and how to share the love of God with them. |
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