|
|
  |
Page 5 of 12 [176 Posts]
|
View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:
Previous
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
...,
10,
11,
12
Next
|
| Author |
Message |
DZ
medicine forum addict
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 91
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:06 am Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
msamson11975@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | Q: Are fish oils good for you?
Some of the unsaturated fats in fish are definitely less toxic than
those in corn oil or soy oil, but that doesn't mean they are safe.
Fifty years ago, it was found that a large amount of cod liver oil in
dogs' diet increased their death rate from cancer by 20 times, from the
usual 5% to 100%. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of
toxic lipid peroxides, and has been observed to reduce a man's sperm
count to zero. [H. Sinclair, Prog. Lipid Res. 25, 667, 1989.]
-Dr. Ray Peak
|
It's "Peat". This paragraph is often reposted by the same person who
doesn't think that HIV has anything to do with AIDS: it indicates
complete inability to critically evaluate the body of knowledge, or
even understand what constitutes scientific evidence.
The paragraph also misstates the year of Sinclair's publication. The
publication is not a peer-reviewed paper, but rather a transcript of
an informal pre-banquet talk with digressions such as what would be
the length of all publications of a scientist when measured in toilet
paper rolls :-)
It does not mention the mysterious dogs cancer rates study, which
apparently remains unconfirmed for about 70 years now.
The sperm count reduction is an anecdotal self-observation when the
author went on a 100 days diet of seal blubber and mackerel oil.
Now think about it.
BTW, Sinclair's paper ends with:
"In health, there's nothing so becomes a man
As low cholesterol, high EFA:
But when non-EFA flow in our veins,
They imitate the action of snake-venom,
....
Refill your glasses and let each one say
Thank God for prostanoids and EFA!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Will Brink
medicine forum addict
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
In article <1149895496.591761.304330@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Great, does that mean you will stop posting stupid questions?
--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com
Like what, that concentrated highly unstable polyunsaturated fish oils
cause cancer because they are immunosupressive?
|
Cite please, and not some bullshit web site you have used before, but
published studies. Data shows reduced cancer rates with n3 lipids as
already explained to your stupid ass by others. It's much more
complicated then you understand, thus you should shut your pie hole.
| Quote: |
Do you really think i'm just making this up?
|
I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.
| Quote: | I'm just surprised that
there is so much negative info out there re: fish oil.
|
There's plenty of info, both good and bad. The bulk of the data is
positive however.
| Quote: | Shouldn't it be
the cats ass?
|
It is.
| Quote: | Common Will, kind of like how Whey is such a healthy
bovine protein?
|
Exactly, now shut the fu*& up.
--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
Will Brink wrote:
| Quote: |
I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.
|
Fair enough. I have a question for you Mr. Brink:
Wouldn't fish oil go rancid at the point where the manufacturers slam
press the fish (or livers or whatever) due to the friction?
Furthermore, since we don't know when this was done -- who knows how
long it has been sitting before shipping.
Also, are you familiar with the DHA-accelerated aging hypothesis? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Will Brink
medicine forum addict
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 83
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
In article <1149955937.584556.86750@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Will Brink wrote:
I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.
Fair enough.
|
OK, let's start over here.
| Quote: | I have a question for you Mr. Brink:
Wouldn't fish oil go rancid at the point where the manufacturers slam
press the fish (or livers or whatever) due to the friction?
Furthermore, since we don't know when this was done -- who knows how
long it has been sitting before shipping.
|
Yes, that is a concern. Two major concerns with commercial fish oils are
contaminants and oxidation products. Both are valid concerns, but much
less so with modern producers who test regularly and use Molecular
Distillation which does a great job of producing high quality oils. For
example:
http://www.hsc.com.my/mservices/Reason_HSC%20fish%20oil.html
No is saying there are not concerns to address with highly unsaturated
lipids, but the data is VERY clear the benafits outweigh the risks.
Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant of the research.
--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
italiangm
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 31
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
Just Cocky wrote:
| Quote: | Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.
|
Not necessarily.
There was a small study comparing various food proteins and how they
affected glucose, insulin, amino acids, and incretin hormones GIP/GLP-1
in healthy subjects.
It appears there's a disproportionately large insulin spike that occurs
under the influence of whey. It is that spike that lowers blood
glucose.
If this study can be replicated in larger populations, those who use
whey in drinks and other recipes may be enjoying lower glucose levels
at the expense of remaining beta cells and all the health problems
(like weight gain) chronic hyperinsulinemia can bring.
Read the fulltext at http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/5/1246 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:37:50 -0400, Will Brink <willbrink@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1149955937.584556.86750@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Will Brink wrote:
I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.
Fair enough.
OK, let's start over here.
I have a question for you Mr. Brink:
Wouldn't fish oil go rancid at the point where the manufacturers slam
press the fish (or livers or whatever) due to the friction?
Furthermore, since we don't know when this was done -- who knows how
long it has been sitting before shipping.
Yes, that is a concern. Two major concerns with commercial fish oils are
contaminants and oxidation products. Both are valid concerns, but much
less so with modern producers who test regularly and use Molecular
Distillation which does a great job of producing high quality oils. For
example:
http://www.hsc.com.my/mservices/Reason_HSC%20fish%20oil.html
No is saying there are not concerns to address with highly unsaturated
lipids, but the data is VERY clear the benafits outweigh the risks.
Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant of the research.
|
Sorry to say, but man has been eating rancid, salted herrings for
centuries without falling immediately dead to the ground. In fact,
those eating that (it taste horrible) was far healthier than those
living today.
(But, lung inflammation diseases like tuberculosis did kill a lot of
people to be that old that fat induced diseases would be significant
in those days) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 00:21:48 +0300, "Juhana Harju"
<shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That was a Finnish study. It should be added that Finnish fresh water fish
is high in mercury.
|
And completely devoid of selenium.
I was talking about tuna which is very high in selenium. (As is
mackerel) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On 9 Jun 2006 07:51:33 -0700, "msamson11975@yahoo.ca"
<msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
Nah, it's just his brain shutting down for lack of DHA.
--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell
Actually I eat fish every other day, but thanks for your concern.
|
Must be lowfat fish. Like cod |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
Alf Christophersen wrote:
: On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 00:21:48 +0300, "Juhana Harju"
: <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote:
:
:: That was a Finnish study. It should be added that Finnish fresh
:: water fish is high in mercury.
:
: And completely devoid of selenium.
: I was talking about tuna which is very high in selenium. (As is
: mackerel)
Actually Finnish fresh water fish is high in selenium.
http://tinyurl.com/kgpyw
--
Juhana |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 13:13:35 +0300, Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote:
Well, there are things mentioned in there which also shows eating a
broad diet is the good thing and pills not so good. Eating mackerel
and herring (and probably also fish powder FPC type B, a byproduct by
fish oil production when using fresh caught fish not conservated by
formaldehyde and produced under sterile conditions) contain other
compounds than just fat, protein and carbohydrate and minerals. Many
of these compounds are preventive against bad side effects of fish oil
and other PUFAs. Some of the side stuff of PUFAs are aldehydes and
some organicals are aldehyde scavengers, like compounds containing
amines which form adducts with the aldehydes, When lysine is donating
the amine group towards these aldehydes, you start the chain leading
towards AGE and lipofuscins, but if stuff like taurine instead reacts,
you get products that are metabolized to innocent compounds.
Isoprostanes like isoprostane-8 from arachidonic acid is also forming
such aldehydes like isolevuglandine. Whether it form products with
taurine in vivo is not known. But most possibly other amines may react
and hinder it to modify proteins like lipoproteins involved in
cholesterol transport.
The only role cholesterol has in formation of levuglandins is that
cholesterol may bind fatty acids like arachidonic acid, EPA and DHA.
When bound and exposed to oxygen, first the isoprostane may form by
direct attach of oxygen in vicinity of another peroxydated fatty acid,
and when formed, O2 may attack the prostane ring directly and break
it, thus forming the isolevuglandins which almost immediately may
attach a lysine side group of a protein and form an adduct.
Reacting with other stuff may inhibit this reaction.
If the reaction happen in vicinity of polymorphonuclear granulocytes,
these may be stimulated to activate myeloperoxidase that may in turn
form hypochlorite which in turn may attack other free amino acids
(especially dangerous if the attacked person is a person who eats free
amino acids in big quatities) and mutating aldehydes may form from the
amino acids attacked by the hypochlorite formed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On 9 Jun 2006 07:53:55 -0700, "msamson11975@yahoo.ca"
<msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
Safest bet is to eat whole fish. This is no magic bullet...maybe if
you are already suffering from CVD, but not in healthy people.
|
A general thumb rule is a teaspoon of fish oil pr day |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Just Cocky
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 297
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On 10 Jun 2006 09:12:17 -0700, "msamson11975@yahoo.ca"
<msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
Also, are you familiar with the DHA-accelerated aging hypothesis?
|
Never heard a word about it.
--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Just Cocky
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 297
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
On 10 Jun 2006 11:33:45 -0700, "italiangm" <italiangm@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
Just Cocky wrote:
Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.
Not necessarily.
There was a small study comparing various food proteins and how they
affected glucose, insulin, amino acids, and incretin hormones GIP/GLP-1
in healthy subjects.
It appears there's a disproportionately large insulin spike that occurs
under the influence of whey. It is that spike that lowers blood
glucose.
If this study can be replicated in larger populations, those who use
whey in drinks and other recipes may be enjoying lower glucose levels
at the expense of remaining beta cells and all the health problems
(like weight gain) chronic hyperinsulinemia can bring.
Read the fulltext at http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/5/1246
|
I wasn't aware of this study. I agree with you that if those results
can be extrapolated to larger populations, whey protein shouldn't be
taken alone. My guess is that taking whey protein with some kind of
fat would probably help considerably in the hyperinsulinemia
department. What do you think?
--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
|
|
|
Eating mackerel
| Quote: | and herring (and probably also fish powder FPC type B, a byproduct by
fish oil production when using fresh caught fish not conservated by
formaldehyde and produced under sterile conditions) contain other
compounds than just fat, protein and carbohydrate and minerals. Many
of these compounds are preventive against bad side effects of fish oil
|
This is where Mr. Dink comes along and cries "Supporting Structures!"
| Quote: | and other PUFAs. Some of the side stuff of PUFAs are aldehydes and
some organicals are aldehyde scavengers, like compounds containing
amines which form adducts with the aldehydes, When lysine is donating
the amine group towards these aldehydes, you start the chain leading
towards AGE and lipofuscins, but if stuff like taurine instead reacts,
you get products that are metabolized to innocent compounds.
|
Sounds like you know what you're talking about.
| Quote: | Isoprostanes like isoprostane-8 from arachidonic acid is also forming
such aldehydes like isolevuglandine. Whether it form products with
taurine in vivo is not known. But most possibly other amines may react
and hinder it to modify proteins like lipoproteins involved in
cholesterol transport.
|
Sounds like you really know what you're talking about.
| Quote: | The only role cholesterol has in formation of levuglandins is that
cholesterol may bind fatty acids like arachidonic acid, EPA and DHA.
When bound and exposed to oxygen, first the isoprostane may form by
direct attach of oxygen in vicinity of another peroxydated fatty acid,
and when formed, O2 may attack the prostane ring directly and break
it, thus forming the isolevuglandins which almost immediately may
attach a lysine side group of a protein and form an adduct.
Reacting with other stuff may inhibit this reaction.
If the reaction happen in vicinity of polymorphonuclear granulocytes,
these may be stimulated to activate myeloperoxidase that may in turn
form hypochlorite which in turn may attack other free amino acids
(especially dangerous if the attacked person is a person who eats free
amino acids in big quatities) and mutating aldehydes may form from the
amino acids attacked by the hypochlorite formed.
|
Yep, I think i'll take your advice from now on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Google
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| |
Page 5 of 12 [176 Posts]
|
Goto page:
Previous
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
...,
10,
11,
12
Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
|
The time now is Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:26 pm | All times are GMT
|
|
Debt Consolidation | Free Credit Reports | Free Advertising | Credit Counseling | Loans
|
|
Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
|
|
Other DeniX Solutions sites:
electronics forum,
Science forum
Unix/Linux blog
Unix/Linux documentation
Unix/Linux forums
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Forum index
»
Medicine forums
»
nutrition
