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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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 Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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| Quote: | The PDR has information on it's risks and benefits:
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Thanks for the link. I'm really getting tired of condradictory
scientific "studies". I think i'll just put fish oil with all the
other supplements and just stick with a variety of whole foods
emphasizing fresh meats and produce and stay away from grains,
starches, and veggie oils. |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:30 am Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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MONTY:
I have read over many of your older posts and couldn't find something
that I was looking for. This is in regard to eating FISH. Since you
claim that there is no such thing as an EFA (or at least not o3 and
o6), and you may be right, so what is your stance on eating fish? Is
it not the healthy brain food full of good fat and healthy protein as
we think?
Additionally, I couldn't find what you recommend as a healthy diet,
except that it includes coconut oil (which IS processed).
I'm presently eating Paleo...similar to Anthony Colpo on
www.theomnivore.com
I eat mainly meats (beef, pork, chicken, fish) and veggies (1/2 raw 1/2
cooked) as well as berries.
I stay away from nuts/seeds. I eat alot of creamed coconut, coconut
oil, eggs, etc.
Drink only water.
I feel that this diet is great but I want to know what your take on
fish is (I stick with salmon, mackerel, sardines, and herring). I have
recently decided to stop the fish oil due to possible negative effect
on sexual health. |
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mattlb@angelfire.com
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca wrote:
| Quote: | If vitamin E is added to the fish oil capsules (as it sometimes is)
them the slow diffusion of oxygen into the interior over time shouldn't
be a major issue either. If you leave your capsules sitting in the sun
things are different, obviously.
Excellent informative post. Thank you. So even with some negative
studies/papers, in your opinion, is fish oil beneficial?
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It's certainly beneficial in terms of restoring the omega 3/6 balance
which is more likely to be skewed towards omega 6, but it's not one of
those things that the more you take the better it is. From what I've
seen, most studies that show significant side effects with fish oil
have been ones where the amount being consumed was more than you would
get taking a capsule a day as a supplement.
If you have a condition such as atherosclerosis where there is a real
risk of intravascular clotting then taking fish oil would be a good
idea as a slightly increased bleeding time is a small price to pay for
avoiding a heart attack.
| Quote: | Could it
potentially oxidize to a significant degree in our own body?
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No more than any other PUFA if there's a lack of lipid-soluble
antioxidants, and possibly less:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/browse_frm/thread/1e2c67dd0f269c3d/942d11376cd07e51?#942d11376cd07e51)
MattLB |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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| Quote: | http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.nutrition/browse_frm/thread/1e2c67dd0f269c3d/942d11376cd07e51?#942d11376cd07e51)
MattLB
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Thanks again for your response and the link -- I did look through it.
Wow, didn't know this debate has been going on for so many years!
Seems to me that the safest bet would be to just eat some fish every
other day or so which I already do, so no need to spend money on any
fish oil. |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote in part:
| Quote: | I have
recently decided to stop the fish oil due to possible negative effect
on sexual health.
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You're afraid it might make you live so long you couldn't cut the mustard?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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Jim Chinnis wrote:
| Quote: | "msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote in part:
I have
recently decided to stop the fish oil due to possible negative effect
on sexual health.
You're afraid it might make you live so long you couldn't cut the mustard?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
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No, but it makes my semen the consistency of water if you really want
to know. |
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David R. Throop
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Seems to me that the safest bet would be to just eat some fish every
other day or so which I already do, so no need to spend money on any
fish oil.
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Bingo! but note that not all fish are equal - salmon, herring,
sardines, most mackerel and a few others are great. Catfish, tilapia
and many others have very small amounts of omega-3s. Tuna and King
Mackerel have omega-3 but also carry methylmercury; eat in moderation.
DRT |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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| Quote: | Bingo! but note that not all fish are equal - salmon, herring,
sardines, most mackerel and a few others are great. Catfish, tilapia
and many others have very small amounts of omega-3s. Tuna and King
Mackerel have omega-3 but also carry methylmercury; eat in moderation.
DRT
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Hey DRT, thanks for the reassurance. Yes, my almost daily consumption
consists of canned sardines (typically in tomatoe sauce), canned
mackerel, and fresh salmon. Although I do feel noticeably better when
taking fish oil, I believe it's a 2 edged sword. I'll stick with whole
food to be safe -- maybe there are components of the fish that science
hasn't even discovered that are anti-oxidants to help protect the
polyunsat's in it. |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote in part:
| Quote: |
Jim Chinnis wrote:
"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote in part:
I have
recently decided to stop the fish oil due to possible negative effect
on sexual health.
You're afraid it might make you live so long you couldn't cut the mustard?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu
No, but it makes my semen the consistency of water if you really want
to know.
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You're only supposed to eat male fish.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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"msamson11975@yahoo.ca" <msamson11975@yahoo.ca> wrote in part:
| Quote: | Bingo! but note that not all fish are equal - salmon, herring,
sardines, most mackerel and a few others are great. Catfish, tilapia
and many others have very small amounts of omega-3s. Tuna and King
Mackerel have omega-3 but also carry methylmercury; eat in moderation.
DRT
Hey DRT, thanks for the reassurance. Yes, my almost daily consumption
consists of canned sardines (typically in tomatoe sauce), canned
mackerel, and fresh salmon. Although I do feel noticeably better when
taking fish oil, I believe it's a 2 edged sword. I'll stick with whole
food to be safe -- maybe there are components of the fish that science
hasn't even discovered that are anti-oxidants to help protect the
polyunsat's in it.
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Wild salmon is good. Farmed salmon not so. (Full of toxic stuff and also
harmful to the wild salmon.) But the wild salmon are almost gone.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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x-no-archive: yes
Jim Chinnis wrote:
But the wild salmon are almost gone.
Nah, they're just hanging out in the frozen fish case at Trader Joe's. :-)
Susan |
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Mr-Natural-Health
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 1807
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:24 am Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | The studies showing "benefits" of fish oil are conducted by people who
don't understand "inflammation" at the molecular level.
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If, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king, and if this NG
is something of a land of the blind, then you are both blind and deaf,
Montygram.
Just thought that the Dork might want to know.  |
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Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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On 7 Jun 2006 12:10:09 -0500, throop@cs.utexas.edu (David R. Throop)
wrote:
| Quote: | and many others have very small amounts of omega-3s. Tuna and King
Mackerel have omega-3 but also carry methylmercury; eat in moderation.
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Beause all the selenium in tuna and alike, that detoxify most of the
mercury since mercuryselenide is insoluble. You need to oxidise the
selenium to dissolve that salt. HgSe has a solubility product around
10**(-85). Also Cd has a very low solubility product and those eating
tuna was not affected at the Minamata bay accident, while people
eating cod was severely affected since cod is low in selenium content.
Mercury content may be high also in fish locally in some fiords in
Norway, but the pollution declines sharply just a few km from those
fiords (mercury was used heavily in wooden pulp and cellulose
factories before the 80'ies and was here the main pollution source
from industry. Otherwise coal burning is a severe pollutant (and also
a heavy source for uran and radium). Some places ground in itself may
be a pollution source. And mining industry may be a source for cadmium
pollution too. |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Fish Oil Processing
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Alf Christophersen wrote:
: On 7 Jun 2006 12:10:09 -0500, throop@cs.utexas.edu (David R. Throop)
: wrote:
:
:: and many others have very small amounts of omega-3s. Tuna and King
:: Mackerel have omega-3 but also carry methylmercury; eat in
:: moderation.
:
: Beause all the selenium in tuna and alike, that detoxify most of the
: mercury since mercuryselenide is insoluble. You need to oxidise the
: selenium to dissolve that salt. HgSe has a solubility product around
: 10**(-85). Also Cd has a very low solubility product and those eating
: tuna was not affected at the Minamata bay accident, while people
: eating cod was severely affected since cod is low in selenium content.
:
: Mercury content may be high also in fish locally in some fiords in
: Norway, but the pollution declines sharply just a few km from those
: fiords (mercury was used heavily in wooden pulp and cellulose
: factories before the 80'ies and was here the main pollution source
: from industry. Otherwise coal burning is a severe pollutant (and also
: a heavy source for uran and radium). Some places ground in itself may
: be a pollution source. And mining industry may be a source for cadmium
: pollution too.
Hi Alf,
There is some evidence that mercury attenuates the beneficial effect of EPA
and DHA:
http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/25/1/228#TBL3
That was a Finnish study. It should be added that Finnish fresh water fish
is high in mercury.
--
Juhana |
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msamson11975@yahoo.ca
medicine forum addict
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 97
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