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A Parent Uses the Preventive Method of Drs Colgate, Young
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RM
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: A Parent Uses the Preventive Method of Drs Colgate, Young Reply with quote

Otis "Engineer" is a zealot who advocates his "plus lens" prevention theory
without good reason. There is no scientific data to prove what he proposes.
He would ask that all myopes (=nearsighted persons) go around wearing plus
reading glasses in hopes that it will eventually reverse their
nearsightedness. Nevermind that the blurry distance vision that myopes
complain about is made worse by plus lenses! Nevermind that there is no
proof for what he claims.

If you are interested in Otis' approach, I have some other links that you
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For information on killfilling (filtering out the posts of a troll or
spammer like Otis) see the following link:
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/killfilefaq.htm
For additional information on handling "trolls", refer to this link:
http://www.hyphenologist.co.uk/killfile/anti_troll_faq.htm

==============================

<otisbrown@pa.net> wrote in message
news:1149133469.711707.317680@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:


snip worthless diatribe of pure bull crap.
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Dr. Leukoma
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1283

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

LarryDoc wrote:
Quote:
In article <1149177539.179547.250730@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Dr. Leukoma" <drg@leukoma.com> wrote:

I actually prefer the very expensive Hoya Summit ECP with Crizal Alize
coating in a set of Oliver Peoples frames that I wear over my Acuvue
Oasys contact lenses. Unfortunately, the one's I wear in the morning
without my contact lenses are at least 10 years old, when I was -4.50.
I am now -3.25.

Oh my gods! You're using 33% STRONGER minus lens than what you "need''!
Haven't you heard about "staircase myopia"?

Wait..........you went UP the "down" staircase and became less
nearsighted over ten years. Please, please tell us how you did it!

Yes, I did go DOWN the UP staircase, or is it UP the DOWN staircase?
The problem is that I cannot seem to get down below -3.25, no matter
how long I wear my over-minused glasses. Who knows that I might not
become plano if I quit wearing my -4.25's in the morning.
Quote:

PS: If you have a current prescription, I can help you get appropriate
new spectacles.

Hey, I'm a typical contact lens wearer who doesn't want to invest

anything in spectacles I only wear first thing in the morning. Maybe I
should entice myself with a discount coupon from myself, say 50% off?
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

On 1 Jun 2006 22:00:56 -0700, acemanvx@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
We are never going to know the full "story".

It is very hard to suggest a "go slow" or "wait"
policy -- but I think that would have been
the better (second-opinion) idea in this case.

I mean, what the hell was the rush???

The kid could function with 20/60 vision. Hell
the state of Georgia and Florida have VA req.
of 20/60 and 20/70.

There was no good reason to put the kid in
a -10 dioper lens.

But I can see only one future for this kid -- her
eyes "adapt" to that -10 dioper lens -- same
as the primate -- with a strong "down" momvement
to -20 diopers or so.

That is a profoundy tragic future for that 3 year-old
child.

Just one man's opinion.

Otis


well hopefully she wont go "down" to -20 that would be very extreme and
unusual. I know no one with eyes that bad and I have lots of friends
who wear their wretched evil minus lens ALL THE TIME, even for reading!
They are "only" about a -5 to -7. I think this 3 year old and her
parents will realize something is wrong long before her eyes go "down"
too far. Her 20/60 vision will quickly become 20/200 and they will
realize the -10 are WAY too strong!

I'm quite certain they will feel edified by your enlightened and
educated opinion.

You should feel very proud for having helped their daughter like this.

Idiot.
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Quote:
We are never going to know the full "story".

It is very hard to suggest a "go slow" or "wait"
policy -- but I think that would have been
the better (second-opinion) idea in this case.

I mean, what the hell was the rush???

The kid could function with 20/60 vision. Hell
the state of Georgia and Florida have VA req.
of 20/60 and 20/70.

There was no good reason to put the kid in
a -10 dioper lens.

But I can see only one future for this kid -- her
eyes "adapt" to that -10 dioper lens -- same
as the primate -- with a strong "down" momvement
to -20 diopers or so.

That is a profoundy tragic future for that 3 year-old
child.

Just one man's opinion.

Otis


well hopefully she wont go "down" to -20 that would be very extreme and
unusual. I know no one with eyes that bad and I have lots of friends
who wear their wretched evil minus lens ALL THE TIME, even for reading!
They are "only" about a -5 to -7. I think this 3 year old and her
parents will realize something is wrong long before her eyes go "down"
too far. Her 20/60 vision will quickly become 20/200 and they will
realize the -10 are WAY too strong!
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

On 1 Jun 2006 21:02:34 -0700, "otisbrown@pa.net" <otisbrown@pa.net>
wrote:

Quote:

We are never going to know the full "story".

It is very hard to suggest a "go slow" or "wait"
policy -- but I think that would have been
the better (second-opinion) idea in this case.

I mean, what the hell was the rush???

The kid could function with 20/60 vision. Hell
the state of Georgia and Florida have VA req.
of 20/60 and 20/70.

There was no good reason to put the kid in
a -10 dioper lens.

That YOU know of, but ... you're an idiot.
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

We are never going to know the full "story".

It is very hard to suggest a "go slow" or "wait"
policy -- but I think that would have been
the better (second-opinion) idea in this case.

I mean, what the hell was the rush???

The kid could function with 20/60 vision. Hell
the state of Georgia and Florida have VA req.
of 20/60 and 20/70.

There was no good reason to put the kid in
a -10 dioper lens.

But I can see only one future for this kid -- her
eyes "adapt" to that -10 dioper lens -- same
as the primate -- with a strong "down" momvement
to -20 diopers or so.

That is a profoundy tragic future for that 3 year-old
child.

Just one man's opinion.

Otis
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

acema...@yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:
otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Dear Ace.

It is indeed difficult to deal with parents on this subject.

I suggested a "second-opinion", but the parent
followed the -10 diopter recommendation.

Once a decision, or choice like that is made -- there
is no "reversing" it.

It takes time to develop 20/20 vision -- and
as some ODs know -- younger children
do not have it. They will have 20/40 or maybe
20/50. Typically this is ignored for
3 year-old kids. I mean, why the hell would
a 3 year-old need 20/20 vision?? But, again,
that is a matter of the "second-opinion".

Best,

Otis


Good point, maybe her brain just hasnt yet adapted to seeing. Although
her optometrist said she was -10 something with a retinoscope and some
specalists think she may have an abnormally shaped crystaline lens. We
havent heard from her parents in many months and may never know the
true story.

I presume you know, however, that this won't stop Otis from making
assumptions, then presenting them as supporting evidence for his
antiquated notions, right?
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Quote:
Dear Ace.

It is indeed difficult to deal with parents on this subject.

I suggested a "second-opinion", but the parent
followed the -10 diopter recommendation.

Once a decision, or choice like that is made -- there
is no "reversing" it.

It takes time to develop 20/20 vision -- and
as some ODs know -- younger children
do not have it. They will have 20/40 or maybe
20/50. Typically this is ignored for
3 year-old kids. I mean, why the hell would
a 3 year-old need 20/20 vision?? But, again,
that is a matter of the "second-opinion".

Best,

Otis


Good point, maybe her brain just hasnt yet adapted to seeing. Although
her optometrist said she was -10 something with a retinoscope and some
specalists think she may have an abnormally shaped crystaline lens. We
havent heard from her parents in many months and may never know the
true story.
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Quote:
Dear Ace.

It is indeed difficult to deal with parents on this subject.

I suggested a "second-opinion", but the parent
followed the -10 diopter recommendation.

Once a decision, or choice like that is made -- there
is no "reversing" it.

It takes time to develop 20/20 vision -- and
as some ODs know -- younger children
do not have it. They will have 20/40 or maybe
20/50. Typically this is ignored for
3 year-old kids. I mean, why the hell would
a 3 year-old need 20/20 vision?? But, again,
that is a matter of the "second-opinion".

Best,

Otis

Yeah ... the ol' plus lens. That would have fixed her. It straightens
curved spines, can solve the Middle East crisis, AND should be able to
replace fossil fuels in another year or so.

Idiot.
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

Dear Ace.

It is indeed difficult to deal with parents on this subject.

I suggested a "second-opinion", but the parent
followed the -10 diopter recommendation.

Once a decision, or choice like that is made -- there
is no "reversing" it.

It takes time to develop 20/20 vision -- and
as some ODs know -- younger children
do not have it. They will have 20/40 or maybe
20/50. Typically this is ignored for
3 year-old kids. I mean, why the hell would
a 3 year-old need 20/20 vision?? But, again,
that is a matter of the "second-opinion".

Best,

Otis
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Neil Brooks
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:

Quote:
Acthins or choices you will make for your own children

Are "acthins" as tasty as Wheat Thins?

Is the lisp a side effect of the ECT?
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Quote:
Dear Ace,

Since I know the results of the primate studies -- when you
put a -3 diopter lens on them -- it is almost certain
what will happen to a child's refractive STATE when you
put her into a -10 diopter lens.

This is were "training" can lead people to do things -- that
the primate data SUGGESTS should not be done.

I would bet that there are second-opinion ODs -- who, if it
were THEIR child --would do everything in their
power to NOT put a child at 20/60 into a -10 diopters
lens.

That is the true meaning of an honest second-opnion.

Acthins or choices you will make for your own children -- in
similar circumstances.

Best,

Otis


I dont think the parents even care if she quickly enters stair-case
myopia, what they are worried about is her UCVA and BCVA is only 20/60.
Her doctors suggested giving her -10 glasses was worth a shot in slowly
improving her 20/60 BCVA. She will probably become myopic as a side
effect but if theres any improvement in her BCVA its a success.
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otisbrown@pa.net
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1447

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

Dear Ace,

Since I know the results of the primate studies -- when you
put a -3 diopter lens on them -- it is almost certain
what will happen to a child's refractive STATE when you
put her into a -10 diopter lens.

This is were "training" can lead people to do things -- that
the primate data SUGGESTS should not be done.

I would bet that there are second-opinion ODs -- who, if it
were THEIR child --would do everything in their
power to NOT put a child at 20/60 into a -10 diopters
lens.

That is the true meaning of an honest second-opnion.

Acthins or choices you will make for your own children -- in
similar circumstances.

Best,

Otis
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acemanvx@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 732

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: Corrections Reply with quote

otisbrown@pa.net wrote:
Quote:
Dicky> How about the very pretty young Asian extreme myope who was
here
a short time back? Maybe we should ask her about her heredity? Can
you
figure out how much axial lengthening it would take to produce her
degree
of myopia?

Otis> As you may recall, a woman said that her 3 year-old child had
20/60 vision.

Otis> So they put her into a -10 diopter lens.

Otis> When you do this to a young pirmate eye -- the refracive STATE
rapidly
FOLLOWS the applied minus lens.

Otis> I would expect this 3 year-old to wind up as a -20 diopter kid
-- when
she reached 20 years old.

Otis> Just the natural response of the primate eye to a "delta"
in the accommodation system.

Best,

Otis


I feel bad for her but I understand. That 6 year old "myope" and her
parents would take their chances listening to the doctors than anyone
else. The strange thing is she sees 20/60 with or without glasses so
they think she either has amblyopia or a deformed crystaline lens and
are even thinking of giving her clear lens extraction surgury which
would kill off all her accomodation, have lots of risks and still not
guarantee she sees better than 20/60 if its amlyopia. I dont see how
giving her a -10 glasses would do any good if it doesnt improve her
BCVA but I guess if it makes her myopic, they want to give her clear
lens extraction anyway.
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CatmanX
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 367

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Cletis has a brain fart Reply with quote

Once again Cletis is posting made up people to make his redundant
theories appear valid.

Dr Colgate should stick to his toothpaste. How do you think an
astrophysicist knows anything about biophysiology Cletis? What
expertise does he have in this area? If you answer NONE, you would be
correct. Therefore, his espousing quacks like you and Steven Leung is
irrelevant.

dr grant
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