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| Author |
Message |
Javier
medicine forum addict
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 99
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 Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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| Quote: | Again, the goal is to eventually get folks off the statins and this
happens for most when they become lean and trim.
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This is also my goal as I would like to ditch the statin drugs.
However, my cardiologist told me that for people like me where high
cholesterol seems to be genetic thing our cholesterol jumps back up
once we stop using the statin drugs. He said that either my liver
produces too much cholesterol; my body doesn't know what to do with the
cholesterol that is in my blood or both. Would this be a valid
statement? |
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William Wagner
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 809
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nospam7@heartmdphd.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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Javier wrote:
| Quote: | Again, the goal is to eventually get folks off the statins and this
happens for most when they become lean and trim.
This is also my goal as I would like to ditch the statin drugs.
However, my cardiologist told me that for people like me where high
cholesterol seems to be genetic thing our cholesterol jumps back up
once we stop using the statin drugs. He said that either my liver
produces too much cholesterol; my body doesn't know what to do with the
cholesterol that is in my blood or both. Would this be a valid
statement?
|
Won't know for certain until you truly become lean and trim.
In my experience, it is the exceedingly rare individual with an LDL
greater than 100 mg/dL at his/her optimal body weight.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/jjl29 |
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Javier
medicine forum addict
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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| Quote: | Won't know for certain until you truly become lean and trim.
In my experience, it is the exceedingly rare individual with an LDL
greater than 100 mg/dL at his/her optimal body weight.
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| Quote: | Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
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I see. SO if I'm 5'6" 165lbs essentially I still need to shave about
30-35lbs of fat off my frame? |
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nospam7@heartmdphd.com
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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Javier wrote:
| Quote: | Won't know for certain until you truly become lean and trim.
In my experience, it is the exceedingly rare individual with an LDL
greater than 100 mg/dL at his/her optimal body weight.
I see. SO if I'm 5'6" 165lbs essentially I still need to shave about
30-35lbs of fat off my frame?
|
Noone is ever successful thinking their weight down however, there are
many who have successfully chosen to eat less down to the right amount
and in time they lose down to the right weight permanently.
For example, I am 5'10" and 140 lbs fully clothed with shoes on at the
present moment after just having had 11 ounces of food for lunch. In
1997 before using the 2PD-OMER approach to reduce my intake from 3.5 to
4 lbs of food per day to under 2 lbs per day, I was 165-170 lbs. I
benchpress 245 lbs and run in half-marathons now routinely. Do not
believe I was physically as strong back in 1997.
May all that I am and do continue to glorify GOD, Whom I love with all
my heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/jjl29 |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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"Javier" <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | I see. SO if I'm 5'6" 165lbs essentially I still need to shave about
30-35lbs of fat off my frame?
|
It's possible, if you want a healthy lipid profile without a statin.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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Joe Doe
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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In article <1148998792.674691.209180@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Javier" <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | This is also my goal as I would like to ditch the statin drugs.
However, my cardiologist told me that for people like me where high
cholesterol seems to be genetic thing our cholesterol jumps back up
once we stop using the statin drugs.
|
If you really have a diagnosed genetic defect (LDL receptor mutation
etc.) it is likely to be true that you need the statin.
Another thing to consider is that people are not sure if the statin
protective effect is only via LDL lowering - it might have an anti
inflamatory role etc.
If I remember correctly you were quite young and I would want all the
insurance I could get (i.e. maintain the very positive lifestyle changes
you have made but do not completely give up the drug crutch). From
your posts, you appear understandably proud of the lifestyle changes.
My own view is diet, exercise, drugs are each good and not 100%
protective ( Arthur Ashe, Jim Fix show exercise alone is not 100%
cardioprotective, similar cases can be made for diet and drugs). I
think relying on all three legs - diet, exercise, drugs when indicated
gives you the best odds.
Roland |
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Jason
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1120
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
|
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In article <1148998792.674691.209180@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Javier" <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Again, the goal is to eventually get folks off the statins and this
happens for most when they become lean and trim.
|
This is also my goal as I would like to ditch the statin drugs.
However, my cardiologist told me that for people like me where high
cholesterol seems to be genetic thing our cholesterol jumps back up
once we stop using the statin drugs. He said that either my liver
produces too much cholesterol; my body doesn't know what to do with the
cholesterol that is in my blood or both. Would this be a valid
statement?
The best book that I have found on this subject is:
WHAT YOU MUST KNOW ABOUT STATIN DRUGS AND THEIR NATURAL ALTERNATIVES
by Jay S. Cohen, M.D. |
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| Back to top |
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William Wagner
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
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|
In article <None-F30213.14304830052006@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
Joe Doe <None@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1148998792.674691.209180@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Javier" <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote:
This is also my goal as I would like to ditch the statin drugs.
However, my cardiologist told me that for people like me where high
cholesterol seems to be genetic thing our cholesterol jumps back up
once we stop using the statin drugs.
If you really have a diagnosed genetic defect (LDL receptor mutation
etc.) it is likely to be true that you need the statin.
Another thing to consider is that people are not sure if the statin
protective effect is only via LDL lowering - it might have an anti
inflamatory role etc.
If I remember correctly you were quite young and I would want all the
insurance I could get (i.e. maintain the very positive lifestyle changes
you have made but do not completely give up the drug crutch). From
your posts, you appear understandably proud of the lifestyle changes.
My own view is diet, exercise, drugs are each good and not 100%
protective ( Arthur Ashe, Jim Fix show exercise alone is not 100%
cardioprotective, similar cases can be made for diet and drugs). I
think relying on all three legs - diet, exercise, drugs when indicated
gives you the best odds.
Roland
|
I'd add another leg or two to your stool of life. Loving relationships
seems very important maybe as much as genetics just guessing. Another
is my observation that some of my longest living acquaintances have one
thing in common that being helping others but that probable corresponds
to my first.
Bill
Grandma Ethel 90 soon. Her first husband designed the handicap logo
we see everywhere in the US. He was one of the first paraplegics from
WW2. She then married and took care of my father in law till he
passed this about 1975. Funny thing is just about everyones last name is
Johnson  )
--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. |
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| Back to top |
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Tony Wesley
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 121
|
| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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listener wrote:
| Quote: | jason@nospam.com (Jason Johnson) wrote in news:jason-2905061131290001@66-
52-22-113.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net:
David,
I was stating my opinions and never mentioned medical protocol in my
posts.
Then your posts should be ignored.
|
Bingo. |
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| Back to top |
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William Wagner
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 809
|
| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
|
|
In article
<not-to-here-williamwag-85AAD9.16051930052006@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews
..net>,
William Wagner <not-to-here-williamwag@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <None-F30213.14304830052006@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>,
Joe Doe <None@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
In article <1148998792.674691.209180@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Javier" <rojasj@gmail.com> wrote:
This is also my goal as I would like to ditch the statin drugs.
However, my cardiologist told me that for people like me where high
cholesterol seems to be genetic thing our cholesterol jumps back up
once we stop using the statin drugs.
If you really have a diagnosed genetic defect (LDL receptor mutation
etc.) it is likely to be true that you need the statin.
Another thing to consider is that people are not sure if the statin
protective effect is only via LDL lowering - it might have an anti
inflamatory role etc.
If I remember correctly you were quite young and I would want all the
insurance I could get (i.e. maintain the very positive lifestyle changes
you have made but do not completely give up the drug crutch). From
your posts, you appear understandably proud of the lifestyle changes.
My own view is diet, exercise, drugs are each good and not 100%
protective ( Arthur Ashe, Jim Fix show exercise alone is not 100%
cardioprotective, similar cases can be made for diet and drugs). I
think relying on all three legs - diet, exercise, drugs when indicated
gives you the best odds.
Roland
I'd add another leg or two to your stool of life. Loving relationships
seems very important maybe as much as genetics just guessing. Another
is my observation that some of my longest living acquaintances have one
thing in common that being helping others but that probable corresponds
to my first.
Bill
Grandma Ethel 90 soon. Her first husband designed the handicap logo
we see everywhere in the US. He was one of the first paraplegics from
WW2. She then married and took care of my father in law till he
passed this about 1975. Funny thing is just about everyones last name is
Johnson )
|
First husband was Harold Peterson last husband was Harold Johnson.
Bill
--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jason
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1120
|
| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
|
|
In article <1149022095.185064.57110@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Tony
Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote:
listener wrote:
| Quote: | jason@nospam.com (Jason Johnson) wrote in news:jason-2905061131290001@66-
52-22-113.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net:
David,
I was stating my opinions and never mentioned medical protocol in my
posts.
Then your posts should be ignored.
|
Bingo.
Tony,
I read an article that was written by the wife of a man that developed
Rhabdomyolysis as a direct result of taking statins. He lost the use
of his arms, kidneys and legs. It appears to me that most people in this
newsgroup have no compassion for those people that have developed statin
induced Rhabdomyolysis. They don't want to change established medical
protocol so that doctors that prescribe statins would be required to
conduct serum creatinine and CPK isoenzymes tests on their statin patients
to screen for signs of Rbabdo.
Has anyone ever heard of a famous doctor named Joseph Lister (1827-1912)?
If not--I advise you to do a google search on that doctor that was
responsible in making a major change in established medical protocol. The
change he made in established medical protocol saved the lives of millions
of people. The change that I am advocating may not save the lives of
millions of people but it could prevent hundreds of people from developing
a terrible disease that could cause them to lose the use of their arms,
legs and kidneys. If you disagree with me, read the Hippocratic Oath and
do research on Joseph Lister before you post. Also--in your post--please
tell me whether or not you think that doctors should do everything in
their power to prevent their patients from developing statin induced
Rhabdomyolysis?
Jason |
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eml
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 135
|
| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
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|
there are 2 researchers who have published much on the subject of
statins and muscle involvement. there is a review article, accessible
on line (i utilized "google scholar" to access the reference):
Steven K. Baker MSc MD and Mark A. Tarnopolsky MD PhD. "Statin
myopathies: pathophysiologic and Clinical perspectives. Invest Med
2001; 24 (5): 258-72.
both of these individuals are mitochondrial clinical specialists as
well as laboratory reserchers. highly qualified in the field of muscle
dysfunction--large involvement with muscular system in mitochondrial
diseases..... |
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
|
| Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
|
|
jason@nospam.com (Jason Johnson) wrote in news:jason-3005061431160001@66-
52-22-1.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net:
| Quote: | In article <1149022095.185064.57110@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Tony
Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote:
listener wrote:
jason@nospam.com (Jason Johnson) wrote in news:jason-2905061131290001
@66-
52-22-113.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net:
David,
I was stating my opinions and never mentioned medical protocol in
my
posts.
Then your posts should be ignored.
Bingo.
Tony,
I read an article that was written by the wife of a man that developed
Rhabdomyolysis as a direct result of taking statins. He lost the use
of his arms, kidneys and legs. It appears to me that most people in
this
newsgroup have no compassion for those people that have developed
statin
induced Rhabdomyolysis. They don't want to change established medical
protocol so that doctors that prescribe statins would be required to
conduct serum creatinine and CPK isoenzymes tests on their statin
patients
to screen for signs of Rbabdo.
Has anyone ever heard of a famous doctor named Joseph Lister (1827-
1912)?
If not--I advise you to do a google search on that doctor that was
responsible in making a major change in established medical protocol.
The
change he made in established medical protocol saved the lives of
millions
of people. The change that I am advocating may not save the lives of
millions of people but it could prevent hundreds of people from
developing
a terrible disease that could cause them to lose the use of their arms,
legs and kidneys. If you disagree with me, read the Hippocratic Oath
and
do research on Joseph Lister before you post. Also--in your post--
please
tell me whether or not you think that doctors should do everything in
their power to prevent their patients from developing statin induced
Rhabdomyolysis?
Jason
|
Yes, you live in your own world of appearances and odd assumptions and
your recent thread with David Rind clearly showed your inability to grasp
any sort of information sent your way that contradicts with your own
fatuous assertions.
L. |
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Tony Wesley
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 121
|
| Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
|
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|
Jason Johnson wrote:
| Quote: | Tony,
I read an article that was written by the wife of a man that developed
Rhabdomyolysis as a direct result of taking statins. He lost the use
of his arms, kidneys and legs.
|
Yes, you've said that a number of times. You never bother with a
citation. I don't know if you've read this in the New England Journal
of Medicine or Reader's Digest or the National Enquirer. Nor do I have
any way of judging if you've accurately summarized the article.
I do know that you've repeated cited a "report" that is not a report.
This has been pointed out to you a number of times and you continue,
unencumbered by facts.
| Quote: | It appears to me that most people in this
newsgroup have no compassion for those people that have developed statin
induced Rhabdomyolysis.
|
You confuse people rejecting your confused rambling with a lack of
compassion. You make an accusation that I find distasteful, to put it
mildly. |
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Google
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