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Jason
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1120
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 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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In article <1151086038.786483.249970@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>, "Tony
Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote:
Jason Johnson wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for your excellent post. I was not aware that doctors no longer
have to take the real Hippcratic Oath.
|
You are concerned because doctors don't take an oath that begins:
"I swear by Apollo the physician, by =C6sculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea,
and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep
according to my ability and my judgement, the following Oath."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tony,
I was NOT aware that sentence was in the Oath. I would agree that sentence
should be removed. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Instead, let's keep the important parts of the Oath that make sense. I
believe that most doctors would agree that doctors should do no harm to
their patients. When doctors kill patients that want to be killed and kill
babies during the last trimester--they are doing great harm. When GPs
(doctors) refuses to refer patients to specialists until they already have
diseases (eg kidney disease),
they are doing harm to patients. Do you believe that doctors should be
allowed to kill patients suffering from clinical depression? Do you
believe that abortion doctors should be allowed to kill babies during the
last trimester?
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jason |
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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| Quote: | Hopefully, you will never find yourself terminally ill, in
excruciating
pain and wishing to die with some dignity or have a daughter who
gets
knocked up at 15.
You just went from bad to worse.
L.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.
My lawyer wrote a "Advance Health Care Directive" aka Living Will for
me
and I signed it in front of three witnesses. There is a "morning
after"
pill that I hope prevents millions of abortions. Do you believe that
doctors should be allowed to do abortions during the last trimester?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If that's what the patient requests, yes.
L.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.,
Two simple questions:
A man that suffers from clinical depression lives in a state where
euthanasia is legal. If that man asked his doctor to kill him and the
doctor granted his request, would that be doing harm to his patient?
A woman decides to have an abortion during the ninth month of her
pregnancy.
If an abortion doctor granted her request, would that doctor be doing
harm to
that baby?
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
1] Clinical depression is not a terminal illness, per se. The answer is
yes.
2] A woman is not the same as a 15 year old girl. The answer is yes with
reservations (i.e. she was brutally raped).
You see, it's not black & white. For example, when it comes to statins I
personally believe, contrary to what a small few here imply, they should
really only be used in secondary prevention at the current time, and even
then with some caution. Benefit in primary prevention is questionable.
There may be some promising research ongoing, some of it may be pure
bullshit, some of it may be parma-influenced, but *some* of it may point
to more effective medical treatment for heart-related diseases which, as
you know, cause hundreds of thousands of deaths each year and generally
overburden the health care system.
L. |
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listener
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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listener <listener@nospam.net> wrote in
news:Xns97EBAB000A7BDsome1outthere@198.186.190.224:
| Quote: | Hopefully, you will never find yourself terminally ill, in
excruciating
pain and wishing to die with some dignity or have a daughter who
gets
knocked up at 15.
You just went from bad to worse.
L.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.
My lawyer wrote a "Advance Health Care Directive" aka Living Will
for
me
and I signed it in front of three witnesses. There is a "morning
after"
pill that I hope prevents millions of abortions. Do you believe that
doctors should be allowed to do abortions during the last trimester?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If that's what the patient requests, yes.
L.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.,
Two simple questions:
A man that suffers from clinical depression lives in a state where
euthanasia is legal. If that man asked his doctor to kill him and the
doctor granted his request, would that be doing harm to his patient?
A woman decides to have an abortion during the ninth month of her
pregnancy.
If an abortion doctor granted her request, would that doctor be doing
harm to
that baby?
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1] Clinical depression is not a terminal illness, per se. The answer is
yes.
2] A woman is not the same as a 15 year old girl. The answer is yes
with
reservations (i.e. she was brutally raped).
You see, it's not black & white. For example, when it comes to statins
I
personally believe, contrary to what a small few here imply, they
should
really only be used in secondary prevention at the current time, and
even
then with some caution. Benefit in primary prevention is questionable.
There may be some promising research ongoing, some of it may be pure
bullshit, some of it may be parma-influenced, but *some* of it may
point
to more effective medical treatment for heart-related diseases which,
as
you know, cause hundreds of thousands of deaths each year and generally
overburden the health care system.
L.
|
Of course I meant pharma-influenced! (nothing agains Parma....)
L. |
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Jason
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1120
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Statins and muscle damage
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| Quote: | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.,
Two simple questions:
A man that suffers from clinical depression lives in a state where
euthanasia is legal. If that man asked his doctor to kill him and the
doctor granted his request, would that be doing harm to his patient?
A woman decides to have an abortion during the ninth month of her
pregnancy.
If an abortion doctor granted her request, would that doctor be doing
harm to
that baby?
Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|
1] Clinical depression is not a terminal illness, per se. The answer is
yes.
2] A woman is not the same as a 15 year old girl. The answer is yes with
reservations (i.e. she was brutally raped).
You see, it's not black & white. For example, when it comes to statins I
personally believe, contrary to what a small few here imply, they should
really only be used in secondary prevention at the current time, and even
then with some caution. Benefit in primary prevention is questionable.
There may be some promising research ongoing, some of it may be pure
bullshit, some of it may be parma-influenced, but *some* of it may point
to more effective medical treatment for heart-related diseases which, as
you know, cause hundreds of thousands of deaths each year and generally
overburden the health care system.
L.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
L.,
Thanks for your excellent answers. Neither of us likes it when doctors violate
the Oath by doing harm to their patients. I agree that it's not always
black and white. I am in most cases against abortion but have no problems
when it is done in the first trimester to save the life of the mother. I
doubt if very many people that are advocates of abortion are in favor of
abortions that are none during the last trimester.
Related to statins: I believe that doctors should try diet and exercise
programs. Blood tests related to creatinine should be done during that
time period to get a base reading relateed to creatinine.
If the diet and exercise program does not bring down the cholesterol
levels to within normal limits, low dose statins should be prescribed.
Blood tests should be done every three months. If the creatinine levels
rise above the reference range, statins should be discontinued.
I realize that lots of people disagree with this plan--but wise doctors
that care about their patients follow this plan or a similar plan. Many
doctors still don't know the dangers of statins. Rhabdo. is a rare disease
and doctors could prevent any of their patients from developing it by
following the plan mentioned above. I never developed Rhabdo. but do
believe that some minor damage was done to my kidneys since I have had
metabolic problems since my experiences with statins. If I had not stopped
taking statins when my creatinine rose from 1.1 to 1.7 during a three
month period, I would probably have developed Rhabdo--but am just
guessing. Sharon Hope may very well have kept me from developing Rhabdo
since she warned me about the dangers of statins. My doctor wanted me to
continue taking statins even after my creatinine level rose to 1.7 but I
refused.
Jason |
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