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| Author |
Message |
curryhnk@plu.edu
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:53 am Post subject:
Looking for opinions...
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Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would help!
Thanks!! |
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Mortimer Schnerd, RN
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:12 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
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|
|
curryhnk@plu.edu wrote:
| Quote: | Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would help!
|
I've read several surveys that indicate that we are held in high regard by the
public... even more so than doctors. As for nurse's themselves, opinions vary
widely. I have great respect for bedside nurses, nurse anesthetists and nurse
practitioners. I have less for educators and none for administrators.
"Nursing as a profession"? It doesn't exist.... at least not in the same sense
that medicine or the law exists. There's little autonomy. Carefully thought
out schemes by overeducated morons don't help. Nursing diagnosis?
BWAHAHAHA!!!! At least I know when I step in bullshit. The "profession"
shouldn't try to serve it up to me and declare it necessary to my practice.
Bullshit is the core of my practice. It saddens me; it's not what I signed on
for and yet it's the biggest component of what I do every day on the unit. And
the more bullshit I attend to, the less patients I attend to. I blame the
people who "lead" the "profession"... they decided all this crap was important.
AND IT'S NOT !!!!
I write ridiculous notes that hopefully nobody with a clue will ever read. My
boss complimented me on my charting at a staff meeting just a couple of days ago
and do you know what? My notes say absolutely nothing! They're nothing but
carefully scripted clichés. Frankly, if it weren't for my nursing assistants
most of the time I wouldn't know what was going on with my patients. I'm too
busy attending to the crap the administration dreamed up for me to do... none of
which has anything to do with patient care.
We redo our care plans every shift. The fact that nobody actually uses them is
akin to telling Saddam Hussein his fly is open. They are unnecessary to all but
students and the incompetent. If you need a care plan to care for a patient you
don't belong on the floor. Our care plans, if actually followed, are totally
nonsensical and I wouldn't want anybody I liked to have their care dictated by
one. Total bullshit. Sure looks pretty to the DHEC and JCAHO people though....
We have a "pain stamp" that is stamped onto our flow sheets every shift. This
was in response to inadequate documentation (inadequate for whom?). It asks you
to rate the pain numerically,the location, nature, what makes it better or
worse, what we did for it, and the patient's response. If I had a patient who
denied pain I would typically write a zero at the top and then draw a big arrow
down to indicate the zero applied to all the fields. I've now been informed
that is inadequate. I must write a zero in each field. Why? Who could
possibly be so stupid that they couldn't understand a zero with an arrow coming
away from it to cover the rest of the fields on the form? I even include the
phrase "the patient denies pain" in my narrative. Totally inadequate, I'm told.
More bullshit by the idiots in charge of nursing today.
How to make it better? Take actual practicing bedside nurses and decide what's
important and what isn't. Just because something is traditional isn't a good
enough reason to do something in my book. Care plans are traditional. Why are
we still doing them? Drive the theorists from the "profession": they're not
real nurses any more anyway.
You're new to this and haven't gotten bitter yet but your time will probably
come. Even the most optimistic get beaten down eventually....
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE |
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Earle Horton
medicine forum addict
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
My wife has been working as a hospital registered nurse for ten weeks, and
she's pretty happy with it. She already has two "occurrences" in her file.
Once she got sick on shift and had to leave. Another time they changed her
schedule, and she forgot to go in. She reports that there seem to be good
nurses, and nurses who don't give a damn, at the same place, but that the
culture of the institution appears to be good. It appears better than the
previous, county nurse agency, where everyone appeared to be crazy.
Accountability is a big part of the equation. If nurses are not held
accountable for their actions, the few "bad apples" will tend to spoil the
whole bunch. What I am talking about here is basic respect for patients and
coworkers as human beings. If this is missing, then what's the point? To
me, this is a more serious problem than imaginary theories of nursing and
"unnecessary" paperwork. If basic ethical principles are missing, or a
nurse is just plain ignorant of them, then you cannot have good nursing
practice. Sadly, there are agencies where this appears to be completely
missing. The result is dog-eat-dog, backstabbing, and people who spend all
night playing computer solitaire, when important doctor's orders in a
patient's file go ignored. There are other agencies where people are
responsible for their actions. You might get called on the carpet once or
twice, but that is the place to work, if you are serious about helping
people.
Take a look at this (http://malaems.tripod.com/finding.htm). This nurse
worked for an agency, where it is the official policy, that problems are
ignored, until they just go away. Granted, this is an extreme case. It
took me eighteen months to get that Letter of Admonition from the Colorado
State Nursing Board. During the first eight months, the nurse in question
was allowed to continue to practice on the ambulance, even though management
knew that he had mental health problems, and that he had abused helpless,
seriously injured patients. They refused to take complaints from numerous
individuals seriously, until after the state investigator served them with a
pile of subpoenas. Hopefully, most employers of nurses are not as clueless
as this.
That mountain of paper that you hate is unfortunate, but it is a necessary
part of being accountable for one's actions. Maybe you can work without
supervision, and don't need theories and care plans to guide you. I can
assure you, that there are nurses who cannot. There is a reason, that Mort
continues to work in the highly structured environment, that he claims to
hate. I don't think that he could tolerate some of the alternatives that
exist.
By the way, I quit nursing school two years ago, because it didn't agree
with me. I quit voluntarily, and in principle could reenter the program at
any time, providing that there were space. Those who say otherwise, are
just making things up. The truth is that I just didn't like nursing,
although I have some grudging respect for those who do.
Earle
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE> wrote in message
news:NrVcg.8329$JW5.7257@southeast.rr.com...
| Quote: | curryhnk@plu.edu wrote:
Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would help!
I've read several surveys that indicate that we are held in high regard by
the
public... even more so than doctors. As for nurse's themselves, opinions
vary
widely. I have great respect for bedside nurses, nurse anesthetists and
nurse
practitioners. I have less for educators and none for administrators.
"Nursing as a profession"? It doesn't exist.... at least not in the same
sense
that medicine or the law exists. There's little autonomy. Carefully
thought
out schemes by overeducated morons don't help. Nursing diagnosis?
BWAHAHAHA!!!! At least I know when I step in bullshit. The "profession"
shouldn't try to serve it up to me and declare it necessary to my
practice.
Bullshit is the core of my practice. It saddens me; it's not what I
signed on
for and yet it's the biggest component of what I do every day on the unit.
And
the more bullshit I attend to, the less patients I attend to. I blame the
people who "lead" the "profession"... they decided all this crap was
important.
AND IT'S NOT !!!!
I write ridiculous notes that hopefully nobody with a clue will ever read.
My
boss complimented me on my charting at a staff meeting just a couple of
days ago
and do you know what? My notes say absolutely nothing! They're nothing
but
carefully scripted clichés. Frankly, if it weren't for my nursing
assistants
most of the time I wouldn't know what was going on with my patients. I'm
too
busy attending to the crap the administration dreamed up for me to do...
none of
which has anything to do with patient care.
We redo our care plans every shift. The fact that nobody actually uses
them is
akin to telling Saddam Hussein his fly is open. They are unnecessary to
all but
students and the incompetent. If you need a care plan to care for a
patient you
don't belong on the floor. Our care plans, if actually followed, are
totally
nonsensical and I wouldn't want anybody I liked to have their care
dictated by
one. Total bullshit. Sure looks pretty to the DHEC and JCAHO people
though....
We have a "pain stamp" that is stamped onto our flow sheets every shift.
This
was in response to inadequate documentation (inadequate for whom?). It
asks you
to rate the pain numerically,the location, nature, what makes it better or
worse, what we did for it, and the patient's response. If I had a patient
who
denied pain I would typically write a zero at the top and then draw a big
arrow
down to indicate the zero applied to all the fields. I've now been
informed
that is inadequate. I must write a zero in each field. Why? Who could
possibly be so stupid that they couldn't understand a zero with an arrow
coming
away from it to cover the rest of the fields on the form? I even include
the
phrase "the patient denies pain" in my narrative. Totally inadequate, I'm
told.
More bullshit by the idiots in charge of nursing today.
How to make it better? Take actual practicing bedside nurses and decide
what's
important and what isn't. Just because something is traditional isn't a
good
enough reason to do something in my book. Care plans are traditional.
Why are
we still doing them? Drive the theorists from the "profession": they're
not
real nurses any more anyway.
You're new to this and haven't gotten bitter yet but your time will
probably
come. Even the most optimistic get beaten down eventually....
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
|
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** |
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Earle Horton
medicine forum addict
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
Another problem she mentioned to me today is nurses exceeding scope of
practice, and doctors letting them get away with it. One example, the
charge nurse told her to "order an EKG" for a patient who was showing
elevated levels of something or other. There was no standing order, and
only a physician can really order an EKG. It was the middle of the night,
but she called the doctor to make sure. He said, no EKG, just continue to
monitor, and he would re-assess the patient in the morning.
It is real tempting to pretend that you are a medical doctor, and lots of
people do it, but it can get you into some big trouble. My former friend
with the Foleys let that happen to him. In principle, you can't do
anything, except some limited comfort measures, without a physician order.
If you are going to be a nurse, know your place. If you are not comfortable
with this concept, go to medical school, or get out of the field entirely.
Earle
"Earle Horton" <earle-NOSPAM-horton@msn.com> wrote in message
news:4474820a$0$24233$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
| Quote: | My wife has been working as a hospital registered nurse for ten weeks, and
she's pretty happy with it. She already has two "occurrences" in her
file.
Once she got sick on shift and had to leave. Another time they changed
her
schedule, and she forgot to go in. She reports that there seem to be good
nurses, and nurses who don't give a damn, at the same place, but that the
culture of the institution appears to be good. It appears better than the
previous, county nurse agency, where everyone appeared to be crazy.
Accountability is a big part of the equation. If nurses are not held
accountable for their actions, the few "bad apples" will tend to spoil the
whole bunch. What I am talking about here is basic respect for patients
and
coworkers as human beings. If this is missing, then what's the point? To
me, this is a more serious problem than imaginary theories of nursing and
"unnecessary" paperwork. If basic ethical principles are missing, or a
nurse is just plain ignorant of them, then you cannot have good nursing
practice. Sadly, there are agencies where this appears to be completely
missing. The result is dog-eat-dog, backstabbing, and people who spend
all
night playing computer solitaire, when important doctor's orders in a
patient's file go ignored. There are other agencies where people are
responsible for their actions. You might get called on the carpet once or
twice, but that is the place to work, if you are serious about helping
people.
Take a look at this (http://malaems.tripod.com/finding.htm). This nurse
worked for an agency, where it is the official policy, that problems are
ignored, until they just go away. Granted, this is an extreme case. It
took me eighteen months to get that Letter of Admonition from the Colorado
State Nursing Board. During the first eight months, the nurse in question
was allowed to continue to practice on the ambulance, even though
management
knew that he had mental health problems, and that he had abused helpless,
seriously injured patients. They refused to take complaints from numerous
individuals seriously, until after the state investigator served them with
a
pile of subpoenas. Hopefully, most employers of nurses are not as
clueless
as this.
That mountain of paper that you hate is unfortunate, but it is a necessary
part of being accountable for one's actions. Maybe you can work without
supervision, and don't need theories and care plans to guide you. I can
assure you, that there are nurses who cannot. There is a reason, that
Mort
continues to work in the highly structured environment, that he claims to
hate. I don't think that he could tolerate some of the alternatives that
exist.
By the way, I quit nursing school two years ago, because it didn't agree
with me. I quit voluntarily, and in principle could reenter the program
at
any time, providing that there were space. Those who say otherwise, are
just making things up. The truth is that I just didn't like nursing,
although I have some grudging respect for those who do.
Earle
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mortschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE> wrote in
message
news:NrVcg.8329$JW5.7257@southeast.rr.com...
curryhnk@plu.edu wrote:
Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do
you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would
help!
I've read several surveys that indicate that we are held in high regard
by
the
public... even more so than doctors. As for nurse's themselves,
opinions
vary
widely. I have great respect for bedside nurses, nurse anesthetists and
nurse
practitioners. I have less for educators and none for administrators.
"Nursing as a profession"? It doesn't exist.... at least not in the
same
sense
that medicine or the law exists. There's little autonomy. Carefully
thought
out schemes by overeducated morons don't help. Nursing diagnosis?
BWAHAHAHA!!!! At least I know when I step in bullshit. The
"profession"
shouldn't try to serve it up to me and declare it necessary to my
practice.
Bullshit is the core of my practice. It saddens me; it's not what I
signed on
for and yet it's the biggest component of what I do every day on the
unit.
And
the more bullshit I attend to, the less patients I attend to. I blame
the
people who "lead" the "profession"... they decided all this crap was
important.
AND IT'S NOT !!!!
I write ridiculous notes that hopefully nobody with a clue will ever
read.
My
boss complimented me on my charting at a staff meeting just a couple of
days ago
and do you know what? My notes say absolutely nothing! They're nothing
but
carefully scripted clichés. Frankly, if it weren't for my nursing
assistants
most of the time I wouldn't know what was going on with my patients.
I'm
too
busy attending to the crap the administration dreamed up for me to do...
none of
which has anything to do with patient care.
We redo our care plans every shift. The fact that nobody actually uses
them is
akin to telling Saddam Hussein his fly is open. They are unnecessary to
all but
students and the incompetent. If you need a care plan to care for a
patient you
don't belong on the floor. Our care plans, if actually followed, are
totally
nonsensical and I wouldn't want anybody I liked to have their care
dictated by
one. Total bullshit. Sure looks pretty to the DHEC and JCAHO people
though....
We have a "pain stamp" that is stamped onto our flow sheets every shift.
This
was in response to inadequate documentation (inadequate for whom?). It
asks you
to rate the pain numerically,the location, nature, what makes it better
or
worse, what we did for it, and the patient's response. If I had a
patient
who
denied pain I would typically write a zero at the top and then draw a
big
arrow
down to indicate the zero applied to all the fields. I've now been
informed
that is inadequate. I must write a zero in each field. Why? Who could
possibly be so stupid that they couldn't understand a zero with an arrow
coming
away from it to cover the rest of the fields on the form? I even
include
the
phrase "the patient denies pain" in my narrative. Totally inadequate,
I'm
told.
More bullshit by the idiots in charge of nursing today.
How to make it better? Take actual practicing bedside nurses and decide
what's
important and what isn't. Just because something is traditional isn't a
good
enough reason to do something in my book. Care plans are traditional.
Why are
we still doing them? Drive the theorists from the "profession": they're
not
real nurses any more anyway.
You're new to this and haven't gotten bitter yet but your time will
probably
come. Even the most optimistic get beaten down eventually....
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
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*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** |
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Truckdude
medicine forum addict
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 57
|
| Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
<curryhnk@plu.edu> wrote in message
news:1148453607.802103.35870@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would help!
Thanks!!
|
Keep in mind that when you ask these types of questions, you may get
responses from burned-out nurses and the woulda-shoulda-coulda-been people.
Weigh those responses accordingly. |
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guarnot
medicine forum addict
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 65
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:22 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
Earle Horton wrote:
| Quote: | There was no standing order, and
only a physician can really order an EKG.
|
Oh? And why is that? |
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Earle Horton
medicine forum addict
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
"guarnot" <guarnot@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1148710977.089880.43030@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Earle Horton wrote:
There was no standing order, and
only a physician can really order an EKG.
Oh? And why is that?
That is the protocol in this institution. As a nurse, you cannot really do |
anything, without an order. Maybe some of the comfort measures from your
nursing diagnosis or nursing theory book. Fluff up a pillow. There are
physicians, where you don't do anything to their patient, without a direct
order. There are others, with standing orders or who are less strict.
Earle
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** |
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Norminn
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157
|
| Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
curryhnk@plu.edu wrote:
| Quote: | Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would help!
Thanks!!
|
Interesting question. Class assignment, or just curious? When I
entered nursing, nurses were worshipped  ) They wore WHITE uniforms,
caps, white oxfords (shoes). Now they wear tight, wrinkled jammies with
lots of tags and pins all over them, athletic shoes, fake nails, etc.
Or was that the janitor? The cook?
I rarely hear people discuss healthcare, never nurses. Usual comments
are cost of insurance or length of time spent in ER or doc waiting room.
The relatively narrow view of nursing, on this newsgroup, gives one the
impression that management is BAD, hates we poor little nurses, and that
all nurse managers belong in jail (or worse). It isn't management's
fault that geriatric patients are generally overmedicated and when they
fail, dumped in a bed with a diaper on because nobody wants to pay or
think about changing the system such that patients who can be ambulated,
toileted and rehabbed receive the care needed to do so. The thought of
being in a nursing home makes me want to get one of those military
uniforms where POW's could hide a cyanide pill in case they faced
torture. Not much difference.
Now that you mention it, I don't know the last time I spoke with a
nurse. The folks at the ER were ... nursing assistants? PA? MD? ER
techs? Who knows! The average consumer is clueless about appropriate
medical treatment, don't know what their prescription drugs do (they do
know what insurance pays), don't know what that surgeon did inside their
abdomen besides make a scar (they DO know the surgeon charged too much).
Hell .. when things go wrong, just sue. That will fix it ) |
|
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|
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Earle Horton
medicine forum addict
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:54 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
"Norminn" <norminn@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5z3eg.5954$921.521@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | curryhnk@plu.edu wrote:
Hi- I'm an RN student, and was just trying to get a few informed
opinions on the professional image of nurses. What kind of attitudes
do you think laymen have towards nurses? What kind of attitudes do you
think nurses have about nursing? Do you think that increasing the
public's and nurses' respect for nursing as a profession is important?
Why or why not? If so, how do you think this would best be
accomplished? Any opinions you would like to share with me would help!
Thanks!!
Interesting question. Class assignment, or just curious? When I
entered nursing, nurses were worshipped ) They wore WHITE uniforms,
caps, white oxfords (shoes). Now they wear tight, wrinkled jammies with
lots of tags and pins all over them, athletic shoes, fake nails, etc.
Or was that the janitor? The cook?
I rarely hear people discuss healthcare, never nurses. Usual comments
are cost of insurance or length of time spent in ER or doc waiting room.
The relatively narrow view of nursing, on this newsgroup, gives one the
impression that management is BAD, hates we poor little nurses, and that
all nurse managers belong in jail (or worse). It isn't management's
fault that geriatric patients are generally overmedicated and when they
fail, dumped in a bed with a diaper on because nobody wants to pay or
think about changing the system such that patients who can be ambulated,
toileted and rehabbed receive the care needed to do so. The thought of
being in a nursing home makes me want to get one of those military
uniforms where POW's could hide a cyanide pill in case they faced
torture. Not much difference.
Now that you mention it, I don't know the last time I spoke with a
nurse. The folks at the ER were ... nursing assistants? PA? MD? ER
techs? Who knows! The average consumer is clueless about appropriate
medical treatment, don't know what their prescription drugs do (they do
know what insurance pays), don't know what that surgeon did inside their
abdomen besides make a scar (they DO know the surgeon charged too much).
Hell .. when things go wrong, just sue. That will fix it )
|
Many institutions, especially in the more rural areas, use Emergency Medical
Technicians, a national certification level, in the emergency room. They
may get additional training and certification with institutional scope, so
that they can draw blood, fit crutches and the like. However, state Nurse
and Medical Practice Acts that I am familiar with all require, that a nurse
do the intake "assessment" and that a physician do the "diagnosis" of any
medical condition and prescription of any treatment. You should be able to
determine which certification level--technician, nurse, or physician--you
are dealing with by name tag, but if you are old enough for the cyanide pill
you may not be able to read it. ;^)
Earle
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** |
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|
|
Norminn
medicine forum Guru Wannabe
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 157
|
| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:58 am Post subject:
Re: Looking for opinions...
|
|
|
clipped
| Quote: | Many institutions, especially in the more rural areas, use Emergency Medical
Technicians, a national certification level, in the emergency room. They
may get additional training and certification with institutional scope, so
that they can draw blood, fit crutches and the like. However, state Nurse
and Medical Practice Acts that I am familiar with all require, that a nurse
do the intake "assessment" and that a physician do the "diagnosis" of any
medical condition and prescription of any treatment. You should be able to
determine which certification level--technician, nurse, or physician--you
are dealing with by name tag, but if you are old enough for the cyanide pill
you may not be able to read it. ;^)
Earle
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
|
The last thing I would have the presence of mind to do in the ER is
check out the various name tags. I'm usually distracted by all the
garbage people hang on them, not to mention the situation that brought
me there. The next concern is "how many thousand dollars is this trip
going to cost?"
As for the cyanide, age has little to do with it. ) If I'm sitting
in a diaper and drewling, just slip some into my sherbet, please. Or
should I order apricots? ) |
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