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edgardo barbosa
medicine forum beginner
Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:26 am Post subject:
Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
arteries?
Thanks
Edgardo Barbosa |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:34 am Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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"edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
| Quote: | Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
arteries?
Thanks
Edgardo Barbosa
|
In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn increases
LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the blood. It can also
promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL, decreased HDL, increased
triglycerides, and effects from increased blood glucose, particularly in
susceptible individuals.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:07 am Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Jim Chinnis wrote:
| Quote: | "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
arteries?
Thanks
Edgardo Barbosa
In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn increases
LDL synthesis.
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Not when there is no overeating.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/jjl29 |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
:
:: Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
:: arteries?
::
:: Thanks
:: Edgardo Barbosa
:
: In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
:
: A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
: manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn
: increases LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the
: blood. It can also promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL,
: decreased HDL, increased triglycerides, and effects from increased
: blood glucose, particularly in susceptible individuals.
To my knowledge the body makes palmitic acid also from excess of protein,
not only from excess of carbohydrates. So, excess is the key word here.
--
Juhana |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
:
:: Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
:: arteries?
::
:: Thanks
:: Edgardo Barbosa
:
: In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
:
: A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
: manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn
: increases LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the
: blood. It can also promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL,
: decreased HDL, increased triglycerides, and effects from increased
: blood glucose, particularly in susceptible individuals.
To my knowledge the body makes palmitic acid also from excess of protein,
not only from excess of carbohydrates. So, excess is the key word here.
|
"Excess" oleic acid is safe, as are most of the fats. It's curious that so
many people think that the oils they consume deposit on the linings of their
arteries, but that they can consume 3000 kcal of table sugar each day and
not worry about "cholesterol."
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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William Wagner
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 809
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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In article <8cs872d3dqk3o664g3vkna0iau7k8nomsk@4ax.com>,
Jim Chinnis <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
:
:: Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
:: arteries?
::
:: Thanks
:: Edgardo Barbosa
:
: In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
:
: A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
: manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn
: increases LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the
: blood. It can also promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL,
: decreased HDL, increased triglycerides, and effects from increased
: blood glucose, particularly in susceptible individuals.
To my knowledge the body makes palmitic acid also from excess of protein,
not only from excess of carbohydrates. So, excess is the key word here.
"Excess" oleic acid is safe, as are most of the fats. It's curious that so
many people think that the oils they consume deposit on the linings of their
arteries, but that they can consume 3000 kcal of table sugar each day and
not worry about "cholesterol."
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
|
I was wondering if 3000 Kcal of any carb has the same effect ?
Glycemic index aside for the moment. My grandfather used to say grease
is good for the gears. I still remember traveling with him as he had a
suitcase that he had to sit on every 75 yards due to being out of
breath as we walked. Died of heart disease just like his daughter my
mom .
CABG Bill
Aside he used to take his coffee in a saucer usually with white bread.
Sweet was good and so was scapple.
--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:: Jim Chinnis wrote:
::: "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
:::
:::: Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in
:::: your arteries?
::::
:::: Thanks
:::: Edgardo Barbosa
:::
::: In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
:::
::: A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
::: manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn
::: increases LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the
::: blood. It can also promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL,
::: decreased HDL, increased triglycerides, and effects from increased
::: blood glucose, particularly in susceptible individuals.
::
:: To my knowledge the body makes palmitic acid also from excess of
:: protein, not only from excess of carbohydrates. So, excess is the
:: key word here.
:
: "Excess" oleic acid is safe, as are most of the fats. It's curious
: that so many people think that the oils they consume deposit on the
: linings of their arteries, but that they can consume 3000 kcal of
: table sugar each day and not worry about "cholesterol."
Well, I have a friend who consumes excess of oleic acid every day as he
pours 2-3 ounces olive oil on all meals he eats. He is overweight and has
high cholesterol. I don't think that he is doing very fine.
And yes, I am aware that Cretans consume a huge amount of olive oil. I agree
that consuming high amounts of olive oil is relatively safe but I don't
think that it is ideal. Just consider the postprandial effect of high olive
oil meals on arteries.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm
--
Juhana |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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x-no-archive: yes
| Quote: | Well, I have a friend who consumes excess of oleic acid every day as he
pours 2-3 ounces olive oil on all meals he eats. He is overweight and has
high cholesterol. I don't think that he is doing very fine.
And yes, I am aware that Cretans consume a huge amount of olive oil. I agree
that consuming high amounts of olive oil is relatively safe but I don't
think that it is ideal. Just consider the postprandial effect of high olive
oil meals on arteries.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm
|
your citation does not support your assertion at all. The word "may" in
the first line was the first tip off.
The fact that they ignored the fact that olive oil is anti-inflammatory
is another.
Susan |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Susan wrote:
: x-no-archive: yes
:
:: Well, I have a friend who consumes excess of oleic acid every day as
:: he pours 2-3 ounces olive oil on all meals he eats. He is overweight
:: and has high cholesterol. I don't think that he is doing very fine.
::
:: And yes, I am aware that Cretans consume a huge amount of olive oil.
:: I agree that consuming high amounts of olive oil is relatively safe
:: but I don't think that it is ideal. Just consider the postprandial
:: effect of high olive oil meals on arteries.
::
:: http://www.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm
:
: your citation does not support your assertion at all.
"What we found is that two were good and one was not -- olive oil. Olive oil
impaired vascular function just like a Big Mac or fries or Sara Lee
cheesecake," says Robert Vogel, MD, head of cardiology at the University of
Maryland in Baltimore. - That is very clearly said.
: The fact that they ignored the fact that olive oil is
: anti-inflammatory is another.
Just as you said - it is another thing.
--
Juhana |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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x-no-archive: yes
Juhana Harju wrote:
| Quote: | "What we found is that two were good and one was not -- olive oil. Olive oil
impaired vascular function just like a Big Mac or fries or Sara Lee
cheesecake," says Robert Vogel, MD, head of cardiology at the University of
Maryland in Baltimore. - That is very clearly said.
|
As usual, you're confusing opinions with established fact. No such
thing was demonstrated by the data cited.
| Quote: |
: The fact that they ignored the fact that olive oil is
: anti-inflammatory is another.
Just as you said - it is another thing.
|
No, it's a CVD thing; they leapt to an unfounded conclusion. You failed
to distinguish an opinion from actual data.
Susan |
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Juhana Harju
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 1056
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Susan wrote:
: x-no-archive: yes
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:
:: "What we found is that two were good and one was not -- olive oil.
:: Olive oil impaired vascular function just like a Big Mac or fries or
:: Sara Lee cheesecake," says Robert Vogel, MD, head of cardiology at
:: the University of Maryland in Baltimore. - That is very clearly said.
:
: As usual, you're confusing opinions with established fact. No such
: thing was demonstrated by the data cited.
::
::: The fact that they ignored the fact that olive oil is
::: anti-inflammatory is another.
::
:: Just as you said - it is another thing.
:
: No, it's a CVD thing; they leapt to an unfounded conclusion. You
: failed to distinguish an opinion from actual data.
You are dense.
--
Juhana |
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Susan
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 932
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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x-no-archive: yes
Juhana Harju wrote:
You're rude and stupid, but at least I managed not to say so til now.
Susan |
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 8540
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| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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Juhana Harju wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
:
:: Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in your
:: arteries?
::
:: Thanks
:: Edgardo Barbosa
:
: In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
:
: A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
: manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn
: increases LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the
: blood. It can also promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL,
: decreased HDL, increased triglycerides, and effects from increased
: blood glucose, particularly in susceptible individuals.
To my knowledge the body makes palmitic acid also from excess of protein,
not only from excess of carbohydrates. So, excess is the key word here.
|
Yes, excess as from overeating.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew
http://tinyurl.com/jjl29 |
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| Back to top |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
|
| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
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"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:: Jim Chinnis wrote:
::: "edgardo j barbosa" <ebarbosa2@adelphia.net> wrote in part:
:::
:::: Can a high carbohydrate diet translate into high cholesterol in
:::: your arteries?
::::
:::: Thanks
:::: Edgardo Barbosa
:::
::: In the artery walls? Or in the blood? What is your concern?
:::
::: A high-glycemic index, high carbohydrate diet can cause the body to
::: manufacture palmitic acid (a "bad" saturated fat), which in turn
::: increases LDL synthesis. That will raise cholesterol levels in the
::: blood. It can also promote atherosclerosis via the increased LDL,
::: decreased HDL, increased triglycerides, and effects from increased
::: blood glucose, particularly in susceptible individuals.
::
:: To my knowledge the body makes palmitic acid also from excess of
:: protein, not only from excess of carbohydrates. So, excess is the
:: key word here.
:
: "Excess" oleic acid is safe, as are most of the fats. It's curious
: that so many people think that the oils they consume deposit on the
: linings of their arteries, but that they can consume 3000 kcal of
: table sugar each day and not worry about "cholesterol."
Well, I have a friend who consumes excess of oleic acid every day as he
pours 2-3 ounces olive oil on all meals he eats. He is overweight and has
high cholesterol. I don't think that he is doing very fine.
|
Let's not dance. Excess calories will raise cholesterol. If we talk in terms
of isocaloric substitutions, the point I keep trying to make against your
opposition is that one who is concerned about high cholesterol and who is
apparently eliminating eggs to reduce his cholesterol, and who has asked now
whether a high carbohydrate diet can increase cholesterol, should be told
that, yes, a high-carb diet can increase cholesterol. Even an isocaloric one
can do so.
| Quote: | And yes, I am aware that Cretans consume a huge amount of olive oil. I agree
that consuming high amounts of olive oil is relatively safe but I don't
think that it is ideal. Just consider the postprandial effect of high olive
oil meals on arteries.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm
|
Interesting, but a really tiny preliminary study. I've always been
fascinated by the Lyon study and what the explanation might be, and it is
depressing that the necessary studies have not been done to sort it out.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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Jim Chinnis
medicine forum Guru
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 1030
|
| Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Carbs and Cholesterol.
|
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"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
| Quote: | "What we found is that two were good and one was not -- olive oil. Olive oil
impaired vascular function just like a Big Mac or fries or Sara Lee
cheesecake," says Robert Vogel, MD, head of cardiology at the University of
Maryland in Baltimore. - That is very clearly said.
|
Well, we were talking about cholesterol. Even if you want to switch to
endothelial function (alone), would you accept Vogel's remarks you quoted
and bet that a large randomized trial would find that olive oil was
indistinguishable from "a Big Mac or fries or Sara Lee cheesecake?"
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA |
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