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2nd career as nurse
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Rob
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Numbing for Peripheral IV Cannulation Reply with quote

I wanted to thank everyone for responding to my post on Numbing for
Peripheral IV starts. I looked into this practice some years back and
I was trying to update my information.

To reveal my own bias, I'm a big advocate of numbing for PIVs.
There've been a few dozen research studies in nursing and medical
journals over that last 15 years or so on local anesthesia for PIV
starts and I can't recall a single one that didn't endorse the
practice. Studies focusing on one or more of the common objections to
numbing concluded they didn't hold up in their trials (eg success rates
were not diminished by a lido wheal). Most patients in these studies
rated PIV sticks as painful and thought it was better to be numbed in
one way or another than to be stuck without numbing.

On the other hand even though we're allowed to use lido for this
purpose on my unit few RNs except me do, and for all the reasons
usually given.

Thanks again!

Rob
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gay Men's Health Summit Reply with quote

Read the thread

Scroll to the bottom
after going to the thread of messages beginning with number
4009 More either/ors Thu 2/17/2005
at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gaymenshealthsummit
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John Que
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

"Matt Beckwith" <beckwith@wchsys.org> wrote in message
news:1107017050.351140.78650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Public Citizen, the Ralph Nader group, indicates 181 FDA-approved
For
example, statin cholesterol-lowering drugs deplete the body of
coenzyme Q10
which can result in a mortal condition called rhabdomyolysis.

I'd like to read the study which proves that taking Co-enzyme Q10
prevents muscle damage from statins. If it's true, I'll prescribe it
to my patients.

What I recall in the literature is that ubiquinone prevents liver
changes resulting from the use of statin in the rat animal model.
Research on ubiquinone has slowed since the death of
Carl Folkers. Other than the cost the addition of ubiquinone,
it is a very safe material. Whether all the damage by statins
can be fully stopped in patients is unclear. There needs to
be a CoQ-10 and Statin trial in humans. Still in patient
with cardiovascular disease, the addition of CoQ-10
is warrented for other reason. It modestly reduce
blood pressure (human), it helps narrow the pulse pressure
a little (human), and reduces ichemia (pig). It helps gums health
(human) as well. It also reduces the toxicity of some chemoTX.


Quote:

Acetaminophen
(Tylenol) is toxic to the liver and acetaminophen use is the leading
cause
for liver transplants. The antidote for acetaminophen poisoning is
N-acetyl
cysteine, a sulfur-based dietary supplement. The FDA has resisted
appeals to
combine these nutrients into the drugs or mandate that supplements be
prescribed as companions.

Well, we use N-acetyl cysteine to treat liver damage caused by Tylenol,
but that's usually when the patient takes too much Tylenol. What would
be the use of taking NAC along with Tylenol? That would be like
breathing 100% oxygen whenever you start your car because carbon
monoxide poisoning is treated with oxygen.

Acetaminophen has a narrow therapeutic range. Adding NAC would
do much to widen the range. Just adding NAC milligram per milligram
in ratio to the drug would do it. NAC is safer than oxygen at these
dose levels. The overdose patient would still need treatment but
it would limit the upfront damage.

Quote:


<snip>

Quote:
This is an overly simplistic statement. The statement that dietary
supplements interfere with prescription medications most likely refers
to those dietary supplements which are drugs, such as St. John's Wort
and Valerian Root. These dietary supplements (and myriad others) are
dangerous if taken inappropriately.

In fact, this mistaken idea that dietary supplements are benign is at
the root of the problem of dietary supplements not being controlled.

They don't need controls, they need drug style inserts and warning labels.
Herbs and vitamins need real ongoing research. Much of the
current research is blighted by use of the wrong forms, tiny
doses, and limited paradigms.


<snip>
Quote:
High-dose vitamin D is extremely dangerous. So, in addition to the
proof of its efficacy, I'd need to see some literature on safety at
high doses.


If you define 4000 to 5000 IU per day during the darker months of
the year as a high dose, you don't know what you are talking about.
I'll suggest you you read the Vitamin D expert panel group brought
together by the NIH which is available on the web with a careful
Google search. Read the paper by research workers Vieth, Holick, and Heaney.
Try this paper published in Am J Clin Nutr 2003;77:204-11 which
is entitled "Human serum 25-hydroxycholecalciferol response to
extended oral dosing with cholecalciferoil". It has long
been known (~ 40 years) that in the tropics, people synthesise
as much as 10 000 IU per day. It was pure bias that
this fact has been ignored until rather recently. Your
attutide damns many who listen to you to weaken bones,
ectopic calicifation, prostate and breast cancer
For a nice little review article, I suggest the British Journal
of Nutrition (2003). 89, 552-572 by Armin Zittermann.
The two articles that I mentioned are available.

I'll bet Max will just ignore this final paragraph of comments
as I provided sources.
Back to top
YvetteMichele
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 2nd career as nurse Reply with quote

Is there a hierarchy as far as nurses pay? For instance, does is a L & D
nurse make more than a surgery nurse?


"Candide" <PityMePines@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3abdvhF66qggsU1@individual.net...
Quote:

Licensed Practical/Vocational Nurses (LPN/LVN) are nurses who have
completed a one or two year vocational/high school course and are
licensed to practice nursing, but under the direction of a registered
nurse. Their exact functions vary from state to state as well as
institution to institution. In my day LPNs could not give certain types
of meds and or do certain types of treatments in hospital. In short LPNs
usually in most settings do not have the direct authority registered
nurses do . LPNs also "cost less" so they are a viable alternative for
nursing homes, baby nurses, nursing registries and other situations
where nursing care is needed but perhaps not a full fledged RN.

In terms of training and education, without giving offence, LPNs do not
get involved with heavy nursing "theory and rationale" care plans. In
short LPN's perform "practical" nursing in that a care plan has been
devised by an RN or doctor and they carry out those orders/plan. LPN
programs usually do not delve deeply into the sciences beyond basic AP
(compared to registered nursing programs), and math limited to medical
dosage calculations.

At one time it was common to find large numbers of LPNs working in
hospitals, but that has changed with most working in nursing homes and
home care. The shift towards "primary care" nursing, helped this along
since as stated LPNs in general cannot perform all the functions of an
RN. In primary care nursing, one nurse (or several over a series of
shifts) is responsible for evaluating, planning and implementing all
nursing care a patient receives while on the unit. Team nursing involves
a group approach where a RN does the evaluation and planning, but a
series of members from other RNs, LPNs and nursing assistants actually
carry things out.

If you want to know exactly what LPNs can and cannot do in your state,
look it up from your state's board of nursing.

Oh yes, back in the days of caps, LPNs never received stripes. *LOL*

Candide

--
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent Texas."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


General William T. Sherman
"YvetteMichele" <yvettemichele@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VLY%d.23382$hU7.3477@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
What's the difference between a RN & LPN?

"LEnfantduVent" <allan_paterson_1945@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1111511831.005531.169330@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hello:With a B.Sc. in biology got into a fine BSN-in-17-month
program
at University of Deleware......and it damn near killed me. The
speed
at which they cover material is truly punishing.

Retreated, licked my wounds and now have an LPN from my local
community
college.

Found hospital units and even long term care with 25 patients too
hectic for my personal speed. But now work home care and LOVE it.
(Tell everyone it's the best job I've had except for the yacht
delivery
I did once--$1.00/mile and open bar--to sail 1100 miles downwind.
grin> )

Chose carefully.......and go for it!!!

Allan in Florida




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Candide
medicine forum addict


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 2nd career as nurse Reply with quote

Licensed Practical/Vocational Nurses (LPN/LVN) are nurses who have
completed a one or two year vocational/high school course and are
licensed to practice nursing, but under the direction of a registered
nurse. Their exact functions vary from state to state as well as
institution to institution. In my day LPNs could not give certain types
of meds and or do certain types of treatments in hospital. In short LPNs
usually in most settings do not have the direct authority registered
nurses do . LPNs also "cost less" so they are a viable alternative for
nursing homes, baby nurses, nursing registries and other situations
where nursing care is needed but perhaps not a full fledged RN.

In terms of training and education, without giving offence, LPNs do not
get involved with heavy nursing "theory and rationale" care plans. In
short LPN's perform "practical" nursing in that a care plan has been
devised by an RN or doctor and they carry out those orders/plan. LPN
programs usually do not delve deeply into the sciences beyond basic AP
(compared to registered nursing programs), and math limited to medical
dosage calculations.

At one time it was common to find large numbers of LPNs working in
hospitals, but that has changed with most working in nursing homes and
home care. The shift towards "primary care" nursing, helped this along
since as stated LPNs in general cannot perform all the functions of an
RN. In primary care nursing, one nurse (or several over a series of
shifts) is responsible for evaluating, planning and implementing all
nursing care a patient receives while on the unit. Team nursing involves
a group approach where a RN does the evaluation and planning, but a
series of members from other RNs, LPNs and nursing assistants actually
carry things out.

If you want to know exactly what LPNs can and cannot do in your state,
look it up from your state's board of nursing.

Oh yes, back in the days of caps, LPNs never received stripes. *LOL*

Candide

--
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent Texas."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


General William T. Sherman
"YvetteMichele" <yvettemichele@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VLY%d.23382$hU7.3477@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:
What's the difference between a RN & LPN?

"LEnfantduVent" <allan_paterson_1945@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1111511831.005531.169330@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hello:With a B.Sc. in biology got into a fine BSN-in-17-month
program
at University of Deleware......and it damn near killed me. The
speed
at which they cover material is truly punishing.

Retreated, licked my wounds and now have an LPN from my local
community
college.

Found hospital units and even long term care with 25 patients too
hectic for my personal speed. But now work home care and LOVE it.
(Tell everyone it's the best job I've had except for the yacht
delivery
I did once--$1.00/mile and open bar--to sail 1100 miles downwind.
grin> )

Chose carefully.......and go for it!!!

Allan in Florida


Back to top
John Que
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Campaign launched against dietary supplements Reply with quote

"John Que" <123456789travelguide@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:420dd6d6$0$38911$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
Quote:

"Matt Beckwith" <beckwith@wchsys.org> wrote in message
news:1107017050.351140.78650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Public Citizen, the Ralph Nader group, indicates 181 FDA-approved
For
example, statin cholesterol-lowering drugs deplete the body of
coenzyme Q10
which can result in a mortal condition called rhabdomyolysis.

I'd like to read the study which proves that taking Co-enzyme Q10
prevents muscle damage from statins. If it's true, I'll prescribe it
to my patients.

What I recall in the literature is that ubiquinone prevents liver
changes resulting from the use of statin in the rat animal model.
Research on ubiquinone has slowed since the death of
Carl Folkers. Other than the cost the addition of ubiquinone,
it is a very safe material. Whether all the damage by statins
can be fully stopped in patients is unclear. There needs to
be a CoQ-10 and Statin trial in humans. Still in patient
with cardiovascular disease, the addition of CoQ-10
is warrented for other reason. It modestly reduce
blood pressure (human), it helps narrow the pulse pressure
a little (human), and reduces ichemia (pig). It helps gums health
(human) as well. It also reduces the toxicity of some chemoTX.



Acetaminophen
(Tylenol) is toxic to the liver and acetaminophen use is the leading
cause
for liver transplants. The antidote for acetaminophen poisoning is
N-acetyl
cysteine, a sulfur-based dietary supplement. The FDA has resisted
appeals to
combine these nutrients into the drugs or mandate that supplements be
prescribed as companions.

Well, we use N-acetyl cysteine to treat liver damage caused by Tylenol,
but that's usually when the patient takes too much Tylenol. What would
be the use of taking NAC along with Tylenol? That would be like
breathing 100% oxygen whenever you start your car because carbon
monoxide poisoning is treated with oxygen.

Acetaminophen has a narrow therapeutic range. Adding NAC would
do much to widen the range. Just adding NAC milligram per milligram
in ratio to the drug would do it. NAC is safer than oxygen at these
dose levels. The overdose patient would still need treatment but
it would limit the upfront damage.



snip

This is an overly simplistic statement. The statement that dietary
supplements interfere with prescription medications most likely refers
to those dietary supplements which are drugs, such as St. John's Wort
and Valerian Root. These dietary supplements (and myriad others) are
dangerous if taken inappropriately.

In fact, this mistaken idea that dietary supplements are benign is at
the root of the problem of dietary supplements not being controlled.

They don't need controls, they need drug style inserts and warning labels.
Herbs and vitamins need real ongoing research. Much of the
current research is blighted by use of the wrong forms, tiny
doses, and limited paradigms.


snip
High-dose vitamin D is extremely dangerous. So, in addition to the
proof of its efficacy, I'd need to see some literature on safety at
high doses.


If you define 4000 to 5000 IU per day during the darker months of
the year as a high dose, you don't know what you are talking about.
I'll suggest you you read the Vitamin D expert panel group brought
together by the NIH which is available on the web with a careful
Google search. Read the papers by research workers Vieth, Holick, and
Heaney.
Try this paper published in Am J Clin Nutr 2003;77:204-11 which
is entitled "Human serum 25-hydroxycholecalciferol response to
extended oral dosing with cholecalciferoil". It has long
been known (~ 40 years) that in the tropics, people synthesise
as much as 10 000 IU per day. It was pure bias that
this fact has been ignored until rather recently. Your
attutide damns many who listen to you to weaken bones,
ectopic calicifation, prostate and breast cancer
For a nice little review article, I suggest the British Journal
of Nutrition (2003). 89, 552-572 by Armin Zittermann.
The two articles that I mentioned are available.

I'll bet Max will just ignore this final paragraph of comments
as I provided sources.


Max is silent.
Back to top
Deirdre
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Depression / acetylcholine / electroshock versus food Reply with quote

Food is universally held to be essential to life. Those with digestive
dysfunctino easily develop signs of starvation. Especially when the
individual is well padded it would be difficult for the average person
to imagine that the patient is actually starving to death. The process
is usually quite slow. Such is "mental illness" - a bunch of silly
nonsense. Subject needs a doctor who does nutritional "boosts". VERY
healpful.

Mrs Magoo (~Q-Q~)



russjjj@mail.com (grolf) wrote in message news:<2cd0ac83.0503051950.71520d15@posting.google.com>...
Quote:
rawanimalfood.com also suggests food - raw animal food in this case -
may prevent depression. Scurvy is known to cause irritability.
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Deirdre
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Depression / acetylcholine / electroshock versus food Reply with quote

Food is highly recommended - it's considered indispensible to avoid deth.

Mrs Magoo (~Q'Q~)


russjjj@mail.com (grolf) wrote in message news:<2cd0ac83.0503051950.71520d15@posting.google.com>...
Quote:
rawanimalfood.com also suggests food - raw animal food in this case -
may prevent depression. Scurvy is known to cause irritability.
Back to top
grolf
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Depression / acetylcholine / electroshock versus food Reply with quote

rawanimalfood.com also suggests food - raw animal food in this case -
may prevent depression. Scurvy is known to cause irritability.
Back to top
Nana Weedkiller
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Bad Idea ... More teens are getting breast implants Reply with quote

Posted on Sun, Feb. 27, 2005



More teens are getting breast implants

By Jodi Mailander Farrell
KNIGHT RIDDER NEWSPAPERS


http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/living/health/10972776.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

MIAMI - Melissa Gonzalez knew her family intended to give her enough
money to buy a new car when she turned 18. But she had her heart set on
something else: Bigger breasts.

After convincing her mother she was serious, Gonzalez spent about
$5,000 augmenting her breasts, one month shy of her 18th birthday. She grew
from what she calls a "flat-as-a-wall" double-A bra to a small C-cup. She
spent the rest of her birthday money on a used 1999 Mercury Cougar.


--
http://www.geocities.com/asbifaq/humantics.html
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Animal Tom Kunich Reply with quote

steve wrote:
Quote:
Animal Tom Kunich

http://www.ci.san-leandro.ca.us/pdanimalctl.html

alt.polyamory, rec.bicycles.racing, aus.bicycle, rec.bicycles.misc,
rec.bicycles.marketplace


Thomas H. Kunich Cranial Crit
Only 1 message in topic
Thomas H. Kunich Oct 18 2002, 1:24 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Thomas H. Kunich Cranial Criterium
Proceeds benefit the Center for Newsgroup Dependancy
This a non USCF sanctioned event
Day of race registration only
Start Time Catagories Prize list
11am cat 5 men and small boys Top 3 / Spread Spectrum Jelly
12noon Overweight Masters 50+ Top 3 /Old Yellow
Campy hats 1pm Old rebuilt French bikes All / Full Body
Massage Registration closes 10 minutes before start of each race
Start line located at 3539 Monterey Bl in San Leandro, CA IF you get
lost call Tom Kunich at 510-351-380 Beginners welcome! NO RADIOS,
NO ACTUAL RACERS!! they're far too stupid for "our" Bikeing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The guy is: Tom Kunich <cyclin...@yahoo.com is a prolific idiot.
510-351-3807 3539 MONTEREY SAN LEANDRO CA 94578 and
this is not Tom Kunich house and the san leandro,ca cops & ATF
have raided this house 3 times and the house is up for sale [link]

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=3539+Monterey,+San+Leandro,+CA+94578

http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=SnTIlup_0TqWQU23tnUuH9.Y.Wjvjg--&csz=San+Leandro+CA+94578&country=us&cat=&trf=0

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&formtype=address&searchtype=address&cat=&address=3539%20Monterey%20Blvd&city=San%20Leandro&state=CA&zipcode=94578%2d4066

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it Tom Kunich is a complete retard ASS?
Only 1 message in topic
OFF ROAD RUN Feb 11, 3:22 pm show options
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing, aus.bicycle, rec.bicycles.misc,
rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: "OFF ROAD RUN" <OFFROAD...@hriders.com> - Find messages by this
author
Date: 11 Feb 2005 15:22:00 -0800
Subject: Why is it Tom Kunich is a complete retard ASS?
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse
Tom Kunich you are a ass and we all know that you eat
BURGERS but the burgers you eat come out of your nose
YOU GOOGLE USENET RETARD pat yourself on the back and
know that you are the JACKASS ON USENET.
#################################################
sailingfishing20...@hotmail.com wrote:
The guy is: Tom Kunich <cyclin...@yahoo.com is
a prolific idiot. 510-351-3807 or cyclin...@yahoo.com
Mailing Addr: 3539 MONTEREY SAN LEANDRO CA 94578
and this is not tommy boys house and The cops & ATF
have raided this house 3 times
#####################################################
Monkey Tom Kunich - head up his ass
######################################################
Talking out his ass again (Re: The Kunich-formation of
America He was eventually denied service at every ISP in
his area. Tom, tom, tom... ... Get your facts straight tom.
Or do you enjoy being the rbr whipping boy... again? ...
#######################################################
Any Studs Wanna f*** My Virgin Whiteboy Ass?
Tom, Anything you want to tell us Smile?...Every drop of cum you
can get into my mouth or deep into my ass... but I do like a facial,
too!! ...
############################################################
Deterring Tom Kunich
Tom is an ass. Ignore him. Do not respond to his posts. He is killing
this newsgroup with his reckless banter. His stupid views ...
##########################################################
Why is it Tom Kunich is a complete retard?
... When 10,000 people are standing there and watching someone
make an ass out YOUR SELF
###########################################################
Kunich is a pliagarizer and a hypocrite
And that also goes to show that bicyclists aren't readers...
That's okay, Tom... ... Christ, get your damn anatomical
anomalies correct you dumb-ass!
######################################################
Tom was later heard to say: "And my Dad can beat up your
Dad." Beats the s**t out of "I just looked the other way
for a second and my luggage disappeared ...

WHAT A ZOO THIS IS
Back to top
Copper Fox
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Depression / acetylcholine / electroshock versus food Reply with quote

Mike-UK wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, ironjustice@aol.com wrote:


http://www.prozactruth.com/tics2.htm

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking




I notice Tommy still stays away from psychology newsgroups. ;)

http://tinyurl.com/6vwgs

--
Sigline MIA

The "Original Sin" link was a riot. *Bloody* awful. Wink It's not pro
vegetarianism it's anti vampirism.

Copper Fox

*Marquise de Malaise*
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MikesBrain
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Depression / acetylcholine / electroshock versus food Reply with quote

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, ironjustice@aol.com wrote:

Quote:
http://www.prozactruth.com/tics2.htm

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking



I notice Tommy still stays away from psychology newsgroups. ;)

http://tinyurl.com/6vwgs

--
Sigline MIA
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ironjustice@aol.com
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Depression / acetylcholine / electroshock versus food Reply with quote

http://www.prozactruth.com/tics2.htm

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gay Men's Health Summit Reply with quote

collaborative blog
the strategy. get tested together before you have sex
http://NotB4WeKnow.EditThisPage.com
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22tested+together%22


how are the choices to murder and infect some random person right for
you?

or is it true that no human being in the history of the human race has
never physically or emotionally hurt another person or murdered
them?...

or are those things a common part of human behavior where people do
things to benefit themselves but damage others and may the devil take
the hindmost?


A response to one thread of deliberations
Read the thread at
More either/ors
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gaymenshealthsummit/message/4009
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Google

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