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A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts
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Alf Christophersen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

On 12 Mar 2006 00:25:43 -0800, "montygram" <nazztrader@lycos.com>
wrote:

Quote:
toxic in its own ways. Get the arachidonic acid out of your body
(rather than "attenuating" it with fish oil) and you will not have to
worry about these kinds of things.

No, of course not. Long before any such threats occure to you, you
will have bled to death from the very first tiny scar in your finger.
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Knack
medicine forum addict


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

"Dan Barkye" <dbjes@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:NTgSf.13226$S25.6043@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Quote:

"Knack" <zymatik@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:B5KRf.4714$Bj7.3402@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...

"Max C." <maxc246@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142381677.820497.251790@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[...]

Another example would be manganese. It is also found in coffee. It can
scavenge damaging free radicals. But manganese is not generally as
abundant in soils as copper, yet you can possibly get too much manganese
by long term overconsumption of cinnamon

[...]

-- I take a ts of cinnamon with my cereals every morning, so it's
counterproductive to anti-oxidation, right?

Dan, everything healthy that we eat, drink, and breathe (including pure
water and pure oxygen, believe it or not) has intake limits above which they
become harmful. There are no exceptions. You should do an accounting of how
much manganese that you're getting every day, which starts with your daily
multi-vit-min pill, if it is a premium formulation having minerals that are
amino acid chelated (the only form that is completely absorbed). A prudent
intake of manganese would not exceed 100% of the adult RDA. I myself get a
daily amount of 3/8 US teaspoon (1.87 ml) of ground cinnamon, which one info
source states to be 7% adult RDA manganese. I also get a lot more manganese
in a cup of strong cocoa beverage that I have most days.

Magnesium amounts (% adult RDA based on 2000 calorie diet):

One US teaspoon cinnamon 19%
One metric teaspoon cinnamon 19%
One UK teaspoon cinnamon 14%

Ground cinnamon partial assay (includes US and metric volume units)
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s0050.html

To convert between US, UK, and metric volume units
http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

Remember that the mineral levels of plant foods vary *widely* depending on
where it was grown how the soil was maintained/ammended. So keep that in
mind when looking up mineral contents at nutritiondata.com.
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Dan Barkye
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

"Knack" <zymatik@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:B5KRf.4714$Bj7.3402@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Quote:

"Max C." <maxc246@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142381677.820497.251790@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[...]

Quote:
Another example would be manganese. It is also found in coffee. It can
scavenge damaging free radicals. But manganese is not generally as
abundant in soils as copper, yet you can possibly get too much
manganese by long term overconsumption of cinnamon

[...]

-- I take a ts of cinnamon with my cereals every morning, so it's
counterproductive to anti-oxidation, right?

Dan
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Enrico C
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:39:56 GMT, Dan Barkye wrote in
<news:gFfSf.13190$S25.2317@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> on
misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition,sci.med.cardiology :

Quote:
-- Hehe, If this is so, which may well be, then the reverse should hold
true, namely that a few cups won't hurt anyone.

Not in a few minutes, at least ;)

BTW I am a coffee drinker myself :)


Quote:
Interesting.

X'Posted to: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition,sci.med.cardiology
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Dan Barkye
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

"montygram" <nazztrader@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1142151943.042282.310270@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
If this finding is accurate, it is highly likely that having
arachidonic acid in one's cells, which is now common for those on
typical Western diets, makes the situation much worse, but these
people
don't realize this. There is no doubt that this fatty acid is
responsible for various "chronic diseases," which is why there are so
many COX-2 inhibitors on the market (as well as drugs targeting
LTB4s),
and it's clear that the body is hyper-responsive in many ways because
of it. This is why fish oil is being advocated, though it is highly
toxic in its own ways. Get the arachidonic acid out of your body
(rather than "attenuating" it with fish oil) and you will not have to
worry about these kinds of things.


-- If I may but in with an old anecdote about an (very) empirical
research on the possible negative aspects of coffee. I read this a long
time ago, so no recollection where, but here it goes.

When coffee was introduced in Europe, in Vienna, one of the cultural
capitals of Europe of then, some raised the possibility of coffee's
negative effects.

A proposal to look for such was adopted in the accepted pattern of then:
Two criminal brothers punished with death, were offered their life if
they agreed to drink 30 (thirty; of this number I'm sure!) cups of
coffee per day for the rest of their life. In prison, of course. They
were young at the time, how young I don't recall.

They died in prison at old age.
-----------

Knack, thank you very much for your caffeine reducing brewing method. I
copied it and saved it in My Docs/Health, with the intention to do it
tomorrow morning, instead of the usual coffee-maker made coffee.

Dan
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Knack
medicine forum addict


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

"Max C." <maxc246@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142381677.820497.251790@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
There may also be genetic differnces in the way different individuals
utilize antioxidants. Coffee contains so much antioxidants that for some
people they may offset the detrimental effects of caffeine. Coffee
contains
over 1000 different chemical compounds. With so many different
components,
it is not inconceivable that they can have cancellation/compensation
effects
on each other.

My appologies if this has already been mentioned, but could the
difference also be in the coffee used? I would imagine that, just like
any other food, some coffees are superior in beneficial nutrients than
others. Differences could be related to where the coffee was grown,
what methods (and chemicals) were used to grow it and how it was
processed before being delivered to the consumer.

Just a thought.
Max.

Good point. I had wondered about the same thing. Mineral concentrations vary
widely in plants of the same species and cultivar, depending on where they
are grown and/or how their soils were treated/maintained. Usually the
consumer cannot taste the diffrence between mineral levels of
fruits/vegetables/herbs/spices of the same cultivar because the main flavor
components (flavonoids and terpenes) are not depndent on minerals.

However the exception with regards to both flavor and nutrition is garlic.
For example, a good measure of garlic's nutritional benefit is due to its
sulfur concentration. With taste there is no arguement (some people like
more/less of various flavor components), but highly nutritious garlic must
be grown in soil that contains sufficient sulfur. And when soil is treated
to boost sulfur, then selenium uptake of the garlic plant beomes reduced.

The less of a mineral that is nutritionally required, the easier it is
overdose on, and although copper can be quite abundant in some soils,
nutritionally speaking it is almost regarded as a "trace mineral". It's
presence in the body is a free radical scavenger. So it occurred to me that
according to nutritiondata.com the coffee serving that was assayed contained
3% adult RDA of copper. But suppose a different plantation was producing
coffee that results in brews with 20% adult RDA copper per serving. Despite
copper's antioxidant effect, several epidemiological studies have found high
serum copper levels to be associated with increased risk of cardiovascular
disease.

Another example would be manganese. It is also found in coffee. It can
scavenge damaging free radicals. But manganese is not generally as abundant
in soils as copper, yet you can possibly get too much manganese by long term
overconsumption of cinnamon, ginger, pine nuts, and cocoa. Perhaps it is
also possible to get too much of it in certain sources of coffee.
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maxc246@yahoo.com
medicine forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

Quote:
There may also be genetic differnces in the way different individuals
utilize antioxidants. Coffee contains so much antioxidants that for some
people they may offset the detrimental effects of caffeine. Coffee contains
over 1000 different chemical compounds. With so many different components,
it is not inconceivable that they can have cancellation/compensation effects
on each other.

My appologies if this has already been mentioned, but could the
difference also be in the coffee used? I would imagine that, just like
any other food, some coffees are superior in beneficial nutrients than
others. Differences could be related to where the coffee was grown,
what methods (and chemicals) were used to grow it and how it was
processed before being delivered to the consumer.

Just a thought.
Max.
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Knack
medicine forum addict


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

OK Matti, I read those abstracts. Interesting.

With regards to your mention of the method of preparation, I was aware that
preparing coffee without the use of a paper filter allows cafestol in the
drinking cup. This has been shown to lead to increased serum cholesterol
levels. However, I am of the belief that the LDL marker is an effect, not a
cause of cardiovascular disease.

I happen to be sensitive to caffeine. Too much coffee makes me nervous.
Years ago my 5 cup-per-day habit at work was linked to inflammation in my
upper GI tract (esophageal spasms). I haven't had that problem since I cut
back my daily consumption to just one cup of regular coffee.

I also began drinking both green and black teas a few years ago. The
Japanese are especially aware of the importance in brewing temperature of
their green teas. In order to prevent the antioxidant flavonoids of their
green teas from becoming oxidized and also to minimize caffeine infusion,
they make sure the brewing water is initially at 175-185 degF (79-85 degC).
The temperature of the brew gradually cools during steeping.

So in light of that tea brewing knowledge, just last April I perfected an
easy compact method of brewing the finest tasting personal coffee for my
work office. Boiling water is poured into a robust ceramic mug #1, which
spontaneously cools the water down to just within the upper limit of the
above mentioned temperature range. Then 1 tablespoon (15 ml) of freshly
fine-grinded coffee is added to that mug and quickly stirred with a
miniature wire whisk. As soon as all of the grindings are wetted out
(submerged), the stirring is stopped and the mug is immediately covered with
a cork coaster in order to minimize heat loss. The brew is then allowed to
steep for 10 minutes. Meanwhile, empty mug #2 is set up with a Melitta
coffee funnel resting on top with a cone shaped filter inside. When steeping
is complete the brew is then poured from mug #1 to mug #2 through the paper
filter. This filtering step happens to cool the brew down further, but I
like the final temperature; just warm, not hot. The flavor of the brew is
extraordinarily smooth. Despite the long steeping time, it has no bitter
"bite". I attribute this observation to the relatively low brewing
temperature. The flavor is incomparable to the best coffee that any
Starbucks coffee shop has ever made for me.

Melitta manual coffee filtering system
http://www.melitta.com/cgi-bin/SGSH0101.EXE?SKW=MACM&UID=!+USID!

Moreover, just since last autumn I learned that cold brewed tea (1-liter
batch done in the fridge) contains a negligible concentration of caffeine.
It's caffeine content is so low, that I can actually have a cup of this cold
tea as a thirst quencher just before bedtime. So how much caffeine could
possibly be in the cold tea that a caffeine sensitive person as myself can
quickly fall asleep at night immediately after drinking it?

The next logical step is for me to make a cold-brewed batch of coffee in the
fridge. In fact I will try an experimental 1-cup amount today. I expect it
to require 1-3 hours of steeping time. However, if successful, then future
batches of 1 liter can be brewed very efficiently in the same amount of
time.



"Matti Narkia" <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote in message
news:euud121l6au1h77rd299eg1n7qep8ql9cq@4ax.com...
Quote:
Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:36:28 +0200 in article
a9qd129opik4m4gpbo70dmu3uuv53u6osk@4ax.com> Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi
wrote:

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:59:37 GMT in article
ZBvRf.1477$HW2.685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> "Knack"
zymatik@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

Note that the news report did not exactly state that cardiovascular
disease
incidence was greater, but that there was an "increased risk".

Many previous studies hypothesized a significantly increased
cardiovascular
disease rate for 4-cup-per-day coffee consumption, but never actually
could
make such a conclusion. No matter how hard the previous researchers had
tried to show that amount of daily coffee intake to be unhealthy for the
cardiovascular system, they were unable to do so.

That is not exactly true. The results of these studies have been
_conflicting_, i.e. some studies have found coffee to have harmful effects
on cardiovascular system while some others have not. One reason for that
may be that studies have researched different things: dose not considered
or different doses, populations, methods of preparing coffee etc. etc. I
think that two trends may now be emerging: a) low intake may not be
harmful and could even be beneficial while high intake may be harmful dose
dependently (J-curve), and b) effects may depend on the genetic
inheritance, so that even a) may be valid only for some people, for
example for the carriers of the CYP1A2*1F allele, who however seem to be
an overwhelming majority among caucasian people. Below some interesting
studies from recent years:

Panagiotakos DB, Pitsavos C, Chrysohoou C, Kokkinos P, Toutouzas P,
Stefanadis C.
The J-shaped effect of coffee consumption on the risk of developing acute
coronary syndromes: the CARDIO2000 case-control study.
J Nutr. 2003 Oct;133(10):3228-32.
PMID: 14519815 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14519815
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/10/3228

"... The suggested J-shaped association between coffee
consumption and the risk of developing acute coronary syndromes
may partially explain the conflicting results from other
studies in the past."

Happonen P, Voutilainen S, Salonen JT.
Coffee drinking is dose-dependently related to the risk of acute coronary
events in middle-aged men.
J Nutr. 2004 Sep;134(9):2381-6.
PMID: 15333732 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15333732
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/9/2381

"... In conclusion, heavy coffee consumption increases the
short-term risk of acute myocardial infarction or coronary
death, independent of the brewing method or currently
recognized risk factors for CHD."

Papamichael CM, Aznaouridis KA, Karatzis EN, Karatzi KN, Stamatelopoulos
KS, Vamvakou G, Lekakis JP, Mavrikakis ME.
Effect of coffee on endothelial function in healthy subjects: the role of
caffeine.
Clin Sci (Lond). 2005 Jul;109(1):55-60.
PMID: 15799717 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15799717
http://www.clinsci.org/cs/109/0055/cs1090055.htm

"... . In conclusion, coffee exerts an acute unfavourable
effect on the endothelial function in healthy adults, lasting
for at least 1 h after intake. This effect might be attributed
to caffeine, given that decaffeinated coffee was not associated
with any change in the endothelial performance."

If 54% of the urban
population has such a caffeine-succeptible gene as stated in the latest
study, then don't you think one of the many previous studies would have
shown solid evidence for this health problem already?

Well, some previous studies have found evidence about harmful effects on
cardiovascular system, while some others have not. Interestinly, the most
recent studies seem to have found more harmful effects than the older
ones.

Studies that could show no cardiovascular disease increase from typical
coffee consumption :

http://www.healthandage.com/PHome/gid2=1077
(Hey Matti, notice which country did the study.)

Ok, but see also the more recent Finnish study I've mentioned above.

I had closer look at the Finnish study the above link refers to. The study
is

Kleemola P, Jousilahti P, Pietinen P, Vartiainen E, Tuomilehto J.
Coffee consumption and the risk of coronary heart disease and death.
Arch Intern Med. 2000 Dec 11-25;160(22):3393-400.
PMID: 11112231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11112231
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/160/22/3393

I seems that also this study found the J-curve I mentioned earlier:

"... The age-adjusted association of coffee drinking was J shaped with
CHD mortality and U shaped with all-cause mortality. ..."

The downword swing of J-curve is desctibed also in the folllowing quote:

"... The highest CHD mortality was found among those who did not drink
coffee at all (multivariate adjusted). ..."


--
Matti Narkia
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Matti Narkia
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:36:11 +0100 in article
<yv5jallxbj8k.dlg@news.lillathedog.net> Enrico C
<use_replyto_address@despammed.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:11:46 +0200, Matti Narkia wrote in
news:vvtd129fs2u329kg2gpepdp2tq8urplh7r@4ax.com> on
misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition :

My first question is always, "who funded the study?"

Probably not coffee producers. JAMA's abstract does not mention anything
about financing of the study, but discloses the following author
affiliations:

"Author Affiliations: Department of Nutritional Sciences,
University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario (Ms Cornelis and Dr El-
Sohemy); Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, Mass (Drs Kabagambe and Campos); and Centro
Centroamericano de Poblacion, Universidad de Costa Rica, San
Pedro de Montes de Oca, Costa Rica (Dr Campos)."

Coffee is one of the primary industries in Costa Rica.

I know. If coffee producers of Costa Rica indeed have financed this study,

I raise my imaginary hat to them for not suppressing the publication of
the study.


--
Matti Narkia
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Knack
medicine forum addict


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

Had to read over again your earlier reply to Vernon about genetics and
caffeine metabolism in order to grasp your reply here. Sounds like a valid
explanation to me.

There may also be genetic differnces in the way different individuals
utilize antioxidants. Coffee contains so much antioxidants that for some
people they may offset the detrimental effects of caffeine. Coffee contains
over 1000 different chemical compounds. With so many different components,
it is not inconceivable that they can have cancellation/compensation effects
on each other.

"Matti Narkia" <mna@mbnet.fi> wrote in message
news:o4td1251jucjl5vqg571r1m7ekq50ppvb3@4ax.com...
Quote:
Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:36:28 +0200 in article
a9qd129opik4m4gpbo70dmu3uuv53u6osk@4ax.com> Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi
wrote:

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:59:37 GMT in article
ZBvRf.1477$HW2.685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> "Knack"
zymatik@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

Note that the news report did not exactly state that cardiovascular
disease
incidence was greater, but that there was an "increased risk".

Many previous studies hypothesized a significantly increased
cardiovascular
disease rate for 4-cup-per-day coffee consumption, but never actually
could
make such a conclusion. No matter how hard the previous researchers had
tried to show that amount of daily coffee intake to be unhealthy for the
cardiovascular system, they were unable to do so.

That is not exactly true. The results of these studies have been
_conflicting_, i.e. some studies have found coffee to have harmful effects
on cardiovascular system while some others have not. One reason for that
may be that studies have researched different things: dose not considered
or different doses, populations, methods of preparing coffee etc. etc. I
think that two trends may now be emerging: a) low intake may not be
harmful and could even be beneficial while high intake may be harmful dose
dependently (J-curve), and b) effects may depend on the genetic
inheritance, so that even a) may be valid only for some people, for
example for the carriers of the CYP1A2*1F allele, who however seem to be
an overwhelming majority among caucasian people.

or perhaps the following alternative formulation of b) could be better:

b) effects may depend on the genetic inheritance, so that J-curve in a)
differs for people with different genetic inheritance, especially with
different CYP1A2 alleles. For example, the upward swing of J-curve could
perhaps start much later in people having two CYP1A2*1A alleles (and who
metabolize caffeine fast) than in carriers of CYP1A2*1F allele (who
metabolize caffeine slowly).



--
Matti Narkia
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Enrico C
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:11:46 +0200, Matti Narkia wrote in
<news:vvtd129fs2u329kg2gpepdp2tq8urplh7r@4ax.com> on
misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition :

Quote:
My first question is always, "who funded the study?"

Probably not coffee producers. JAMA's abstract does not mention anything
about financing of the study, but discloses the following author
affiliations:

"Author Affiliations: Department of Nutritional Sciences,
University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario (Ms Cornelis and Dr El-
Sohemy); Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, Mass (Drs Kabagambe and Campos); and Centro
Centroamericano de Poblacion, Universidad de Costa Rica, San
Pedro de Montes de Oca, Costa Rica (Dr Campos)."

Coffee is one of the primary industries in Costa Rica.

X'Posted to: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
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Matti Narkia
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:36:28 +0200 in article
<a9qd129opik4m4gpbo70dmu3uuv53u6osk@4ax.com> Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi>
wrote:

Quote:
Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:59:37 GMT in article
ZBvRf.1477$HW2.685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> "Knack"
zymatik@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

Note that the news report did not exactly state that cardiovascular disease
incidence was greater, but that there was an "increased risk".

Many previous studies hypothesized a significantly increased cardiovascular
disease rate for 4-cup-per-day coffee consumption, but never actually could
make such a conclusion. No matter how hard the previous researchers had
tried to show that amount of daily coffee intake to be unhealthy for the
cardiovascular system, they were unable to do so.

That is not exactly true. The results of these studies have been
_conflicting_, i.e. some studies have found coffee to have harmful effects
on cardiovascular system while some others have not. One reason for that
may be that studies have researched different things: dose not considered
or different doses, populations, methods of preparing coffee etc. etc. I
think that two trends may now be emerging: a) low intake may not be
harmful and could even be beneficial while high intake may be harmful dose
dependently (J-curve), and b) effects may depend on the genetic
inheritance, so that even a) may be valid only for some people, for
example for the carriers of the CYP1A2*1F allele, who however seem to be
an overwhelming majority among caucasian people. Below some interesting
studies from recent years:

Panagiotakos DB, Pitsavos C, Chrysohoou C, Kokkinos P, Toutouzas P,
Stefanadis C.
The J-shaped effect of coffee consumption on the risk of developing acute
coronary syndromes: the CARDIO2000 case-control study.
J Nutr. 2003 Oct;133(10):3228-32.
PMID: 14519815 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14519815
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/10/3228

"... The suggested J-shaped association between coffee
consumption and the risk of developing acute coronary syndromes
may partially explain the conflicting results from other
studies in the past."

Happonen P, Voutilainen S, Salonen JT.
Coffee drinking is dose-dependently related to the risk of acute coronary
events in middle-aged men.
J Nutr. 2004 Sep;134(9):2381-6.
PMID: 15333732 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15333732
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/9/2381

"... In conclusion, heavy coffee consumption increases the
short-term risk of acute myocardial infarction or coronary
death, independent of the brewing method or currently
recognized risk factors for CHD."

Papamichael CM, Aznaouridis KA, Karatzis EN, Karatzi KN, Stamatelopoulos
KS, Vamvakou G, Lekakis JP, Mavrikakis ME.
Effect of coffee on endothelial function in healthy subjects: the role of
caffeine.
Clin Sci (Lond). 2005 Jul;109(1):55-60.
PMID: 15799717 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15799717
http://www.clinsci.org/cs/109/0055/cs1090055.htm

"... . In conclusion, coffee exerts an acute unfavourable
effect on the endothelial function in healthy adults, lasting
for at least 1 h after intake. This effect might be attributed
to caffeine, given that decaffeinated coffee was not associated
with any change in the endothelial performance."

If 54% of the urban
population has such a caffeine-succeptible gene as stated in the latest
study, then don't you think one of the many previous studies would have
shown solid evidence for this health problem already?

Well, some previous studies have found evidence about harmful effects on
cardiovascular system, while some others have not. Interestinly, the most
recent studies seem to have found more harmful effects than the older
ones.

Studies that could show no cardiovascular disease increase from typical
coffee consumption :

http://www.healthandage.com/PHome/gid2=1077
(Hey Matti, notice which country did the study.)

Ok, but see also the more recent Finnish study I've mentioned above.

I had closer look at the Finnish study the above link refers to. The study
is

Kleemola P, Jousilahti P, Pietinen P, Vartiainen E, Tuomilehto J.
Coffee consumption and the risk of coronary heart disease and death.
Arch Intern Med. 2000 Dec 11-25;160(22):3393-400.
PMID: 11112231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11112231>
<http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/160/22/3393>

I seems that also this study found the J-curve I mentioned earlier:

"... The age-adjusted association of coffee drinking was J shaped with
CHD mortality and U shaped with all-cause mortality. ..."

The downword swing of J-curve is desctibed also in the folllowing quote:

"... The highest CHD mortality was found among those who did not drink
coffee at all (multivariate adjusted). ..."


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Matti Narkia
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Matti Narkia
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

14 Mar 2006 08:47:56 -0800 in article
<1142354876.179599.84250@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com> judgedl@gmail.com
wrote:

Quote:

Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
"A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts", Sci-Tech Today, March 8, 2006,
Link: http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=0200001C4OK4

The findings of a new medical study might be enough to make you spit
out your morning coffee. And that could be a good thing -- at least for
half of you.

A study of 4,000 coffee drinkers has found that two or more cups each
day can increase the risk of heart disease -- but only for those with a
genetic mutation that slows the break-down of caffeine in the body.

In diverse urban areas, the mutation is found in roughly half of all
people. People without the mutation can drink as much coffee as they
like with no added risk of a heart attack, the scientists said.

Unfortunately, there's no commercial test for the mutation, which now
puts coffee die-hards in a bit of a quandary.

"I don't know what to think," said Donna Carmichael, 50, as she waited
for a train at Union Station.

"How do you know if you've got the gene?" she said. She usually drinks
about three cups of coffee a day. "If it's genetic, though, who's going
to go out and get tested?"

The findings, published in the Journal of the American Medical
Association, could explain why previous investigations into caffeine's
effect on the heart have produced conflicting results. Some reports
have tied coffee to an increase in heart disease, while others have
found no effect.

Ahmed El-Sohemy, a University of Toronto scientist involved in the
study, said earlier reports failed to account for the genetic
differences among people.

"One size does not fit all," he said.

People who metabolized caffeine slowly and drank two to three cups of
coffee each day had a 32 percent higher risk of heart attack, according
to the study. Those consuming four cups or more had a 64 percent
greater risk. A single cup of coffee had no effect on heart attack
risk, researchers found.

How this will affect America's addiction to caffeine remains to be
seen. Coffee drinkers in the U.S. -- about half of all adults -- - gulp
an average of three cups of coffee daily and spend more than $17
billion a year keeping themselves fully caffeinated. The findings are
"interesting, plausible and worthy of further study," said Dr. David
Robertson, a professor of medicine and pharmacology at Vanderbilt
University.

But he said the results needed to be confirmed through additional
research and that consumers shouldn't worry about changing their
coffee-drinking habits.

My first question is always, "who funded the study?"

Probably not coffee producers. JAMA's abstract does not mention anything
about financing of the study, but discloses the following author
affiliations:

"Author Affiliations: Department of Nutritional Sciences,
University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario (Ms Cornelis and Dr El-
Sohemy); Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public
Health, Boston, Mass (Drs Kabagambe and Campos); and Centro
Centroamericano de Poblacion, Universidad de Costa Rica, San
Pedro de Montes de Oca, Costa Rica (Dr Campos)."


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Matti Narkia
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Matti Narkia
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Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 425

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:36:28 +0200 in article
<a9qd129opik4m4gpbo70dmu3uuv53u6osk@4ax.com> Matti Narkia <mna@mbnet.fi>
wrote:

Quote:
Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:59:37 GMT in article
ZBvRf.1477$HW2.685@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net> "Knack"
zymatik@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

Note that the news report did not exactly state that cardiovascular disease
incidence was greater, but that there was an "increased risk".

Many previous studies hypothesized a significantly increased cardiovascular
disease rate for 4-cup-per-day coffee consumption, but never actually could
make such a conclusion. No matter how hard the previous researchers had
tried to show that amount of daily coffee intake to be unhealthy for the
cardiovascular system, they were unable to do so.

That is not exactly true. The results of these studies have been
_conflicting_, i.e. some studies have found coffee to have harmful effects
on cardiovascular system while some others have not. One reason for that
may be that studies have researched different things: dose not considered
or different doses, populations, methods of preparing coffee etc. etc. I
think that two trends may now be emerging: a) low intake may not be
harmful and could even be beneficial while high intake may be harmful dose
dependently (J-curve), and b) effects may depend on the genetic
inheritance, so that even a) may be valid only for some people, for
example for the carriers of the CYP1A2*1F allele, who however seem to be
an overwhelming majority among caucasian people.

or perhaps the following alternative formulation of b) could be better:

b) effects may depend on the genetic inheritance, so that J-curve in a)
differs for people with different genetic inheritance, especially with
different CYP1A2 alleles. For example, the upward swing of J-curve could
perhaps start much later in people having two CYP1A2*1A alleles (and who
metabolize caffeine fast) than in carriers of CYP1A2*1F allele (who
metabolize caffeine slowly).



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Matti Narkia
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La Mer
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts Reply with quote

Roman Bystrianyk wrote:
Quote:
"A Wake-Up Call for Caffeine Addicts", Sci-Tech Today, March 8, 2006,
Link: http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=0200001C4OK4

The findings of a new medical study might be enough to make you spit
out your morning coffee. And that could be a good thing -- at least for
half of you.

A study of 4,000 coffee drinkers has found that two or more cups each
day can increase the risk of heart disease -- but only for those with a
genetic mutation that slows the break-down of caffeine in the body.

In diverse urban areas, the mutation is found in roughly half of all
people. People without the mutation can drink as much coffee as they
like with no added risk of a heart attack, the scientists said.

Unfortunately, there's no commercial test for the mutation, which now
puts coffee die-hards in a bit of a quandary.

"I don't know what to think," said Donna Carmichael, 50, as she waited
for a train at Union Station.

"How do you know if you've got the gene?" she said. She usually drinks
about three cups of coffee a day. "If it's genetic, though, who's going
to go out and get tested?"

The findings, published in the Journal of the American Medical
Association, could explain why previous investigations into caffeine's
effect on the heart have produced conflicting results. Some reports
have tied coffee to an increase in heart disease, while others have
found no effect.

Ahmed El-Sohemy, a University of Toronto scientist involved in the
study, said earlier reports failed to account for the genetic
differences among people.

"One size does not fit all," he said.

People who metabolized caffeine slowly and drank two to three cups of
coffee each day had a 32 percent higher risk of heart attack, according
to the study. Those consuming four cups or more had a 64 percent
greater risk. A single cup of coffee had no effect on heart attack
risk, researchers found.

How this will affect America's addiction to caffeine remains to be
seen. Coffee drinkers in the U.S. -- about half of all adults -- - gulp
an average of three cups of coffee daily and spend more than $17
billion a year keeping themselves fully caffeinated. The findings are
"interesting, plausible and worthy of further study," said Dr. David
Robertson, a professor of medicine and pharmacology at Vanderbilt
University.

But he said the results needed to be confirmed through additional
research and that consumers shouldn't worry about changing their
coffee-drinking habits.

My first question is always, "who funded the study?"
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