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Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams
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Bill
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Jan wrote:

"It is YOUR responsibility to POST the risks or better yet have your
patients' READ AND SIGN a consent form. Making sure they KNOW what is
going in their mouth and the R I S K S!

Do you do that Doc?"
___________________________________


Of course I do. Every dentist in my state does exactly that.

Is you memory that short? This was already discussed and posted, long
ago. I'm surprised you might have forgotten this point.

Since the profit is much higher for other materials, dentists have a
great incentive to avoid amalgam and place other materials anyway.

Patients in my state only receive amalgams when they CHOOSE it.

But we don't want to stand in the way of patient choice, do we??

- dentaldoc
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Like I said, pizin is pizin ......





Chuck Wrote:
Quote:
Joel344 wrote:
Yeah Chuckster is right ..... the F.B.I. is investigating pizin
......
Joel344

Unfortunately for open minded, forward looking dental professionals,
Joel is a babbling moron who represents them ever so poorly.
Fortunately, for the mounting public who seek the truth, they see
through him like a clean window. As one MD, who has been seeking
treatment for his own debilitating, yet unknown, autoimmune illness
told me... "I used to think that anyone who thought amalgam fillings
could initiate or exacerbate illness were quacks" ... until he did
independent research. Thankfully he is doing better. Keep up the great
(contra) work Joel. If you had a clue you might see what a pathetic
fool you are - mercury is not an essential nutrient (but a severely
deleterious toxin) and should not be used for placement in the mouth
as
to add to systemic Hg body burden. CB


--
Joel344
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel344's Profile: http://dentalcom.net/forum/member.php?userid=12
View this thread: http://dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3943
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Joel344 wrote:
Quote:
Yeah Chuckster is right ..... the F.B.I. is investigating pizin ......


You don't work fo the F.B.I.? Then who gave you your liscence to
"pizin" children?
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

phildoc wrote:
Quote:
Amalgam placement will always be an issue where each side is not likely to
win the other over. I place amalgams and composites. I find both to be
acceptable restorations. For those who have problems with the content of
amalgams, fortunately these days you have options.

But am I going to test all of my patients for mercury toxicity and try to
narrow the controls so that their only exposure to mercury is from the
fillings that I place. That would be ridiculous, and I think that you know
that. We read the studies that are conducted and make our choices from
those results. The abstract originally quoted proves nothing.

--Phil

Sounds like "self rationalization", "Doctor Phil". Sorry I couldn't
resist. Well you've admitted quite a lot actually and if you knew
the intensity of some of these debates you probably wouldn't
admit that there is no way to test your patients for toxicity.

I certainly agree that it is not YOUR job to do all the science, but
unless you can guarantee that no amalgam will corrode from a wet
field or suffer from galvanism, crevice corrosion, etc (and knowing
that
amalgam is the largest source of hg). it is your responsability to
inform the patient. Are you willing to guarantee every amalgam
you place? No! If there was a case of possible/probable posioning
you would "hide" behind the powerful (if arbitrary) standard of
care defense and place the burden of proof on the poor patient.
What can i say?
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phildoc
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Amalgam placement will always be an issue where each side is not likely to
win the other over. I place amalgams and composites. I find both to be
acceptable restorations. For those who have problems with the content of
amalgams, fortunately these days you have options.

But am I going to test all of my patients for mercury toxicity and try to
narrow the controls so that their only exposure to mercury is from the
fillings that I place. That would be ridiculous, and I think that you know
that. We read the studies that are conducted and make our choices from
those results. The abstract originally quoted proves nothing.

--Phil

Quote:
What is amazing is that dentists will claim that they "know" amalgam is
safe because none of their patients "ever" had any toxic affects
WITHOUT
any testing, even while admitting that due to diet, environment, lead
etc
patients probably DiD have effects of toxiciy. The change in approach
occurs, WHEN they try to discredit an autopsy study.

So which is it? Are many of patients generally suffering from toxicity
or heavy
metals or not? If so, I would suggest your blank check on amalgam
safety
to be a fraud because I'm sure you never scientifically attempted to
separate the effects of environment from amalgam. If not, then the
above study clearly "proves" amalgam to be harmful!
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Chuck, how do we get the amalgams out of the blood ...?

Any ideas?



Joel





Chuck Wrote:
Quote:
"Total mercury levels were significantly higher in subjects with a
greater number of occlusal amalgam surfaces (>12) compared with those
with fewer occlusal amalgams (0-3) in all types of tissue (all P </=
0.04)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16501347&query_hl=23&itool=pubmed_docsum


--
Joel344
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel344's Profile: http://dentalcom.net/forum/member.php?userid=12
View this thread: http://dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3943
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Bill wrote:
..
Quote:

Since no dental material can even be placed without the patient's
consent, the patient is in complete control of whether amalgam is used.

Gee, what is the obvious flaw in the above statement?

However, you are right about one thing. Society as whole, endorses
and allows amalgams to be used, Therefore blame for the use of
amalgam by those who think it is unsafe cannot be placed soley on
dentists.

In fact the public is actually more to blame for the use of amalgam
without
informed consent than dentists.
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Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

We agree. Amalgams in the blood is a serious condition.


Joel





Clinton Wrote:
Quote:
carabelli wrote:
"phildoc" <phildoc@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:OJ6dndiFYZaR3ZPZRVn-qQ@buckeye-express.com...
Although the study could have some merit, there's not much to go on
as far
as the abstract is concerned. What are the controlled factors in
this
study? How old were these people? What was the environment in
which they
lived? What was their diet? If you tell me, that other than
their
exposure to mercury from the amalgams, these people lived in
bubbles and

What is amazing is that dentists will claim that they "know" amalgam
is
safe because none of their patients "ever" had any toxic affects
WITHOUT
any testing, even while admitting that due to diet, environment, lead
etc
patients probably DiD have effects of toxiciy. The change in approach
occurs, WHEN they try to discredit an autopsy study.

So which is it? Are many of patients generally suffering from
toxicity
or heavy
metals or not? If so, I would suggest your blank check on amalgam
safety
to be a fraud because I'm sure you never scientifically attempted to
separate the effects of environment from amalgam. If not, then the
above study clearly "proves" amalgam to be harmful!


--
Joel344
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel344's Profile: http://dentalcom.net/forum/member.php?userid=12
View this thread: http://dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3943
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Bill
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Chuck wrote:

"And the benefit of placing amalgams as to increase systemic mercury
body burden (when other materials are available) is what? CB"
_________________________________


The main benefit in the patient's mind is the COST. Some people care
more about their monetary cost than anything else.

Amalgam is the cheapest dental restorative material. Anything else
costs more.

Since no dental material can even be placed without the patient's
consent, the patient is in complete control of whether amalgam is used.

Amalgams are only placed when the patients want them. I haven't placed
one in years, because the patients I've seen since the late 1990's all
want "white" fillings instead of dark metal. Legally, the choice is
always up to the patient.

- dentaldoc
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Clinton
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

carabelli wrote:
Quote:
"phildoc" <phildoc@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:OJ6dndiFYZaR3ZPZRVn-qQ@buckeye-express.com...
Although the study could have some merit, there's not much to go on as far
as the abstract is concerned. What are the controlled factors in this
study? How old were these people? What was the environment in which they
lived? What was their diet? If you tell me, that other than their
exposure to mercury from the amalgams, these people lived in bubbles and

What is amazing is that dentists will claim that they "know" amalgam is
safe because none of their patients "ever" had any toxic affects
WITHOUT
any testing, even while admitting that due to diet, environment, lead
etc
patients probably DiD have effects of toxiciy. The change in approach
occurs, WHEN they try to discredit an autopsy study.

So which is it? Are many of patients generally suffering from toxicity
or heavy
metals or not? If so, I would suggest your blank check on amalgam
safety
to be a fraud because I'm sure you never scientifically attempted to
separate the effects of environment from amalgam. If not, then the
above study clearly "proves" amalgam to be harmful!
Back to top
Joel M. Eichen
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 4062

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Seafood fillings are loaded with mercury .......


--
Joel344
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel344's Profile: http://dentalcom.net/forum/member.php?userid=12
View this thread: http://dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3943
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Chuck
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1132

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Quote:
Although the study could have some merit...

And the benefit of placing amalgams as to increase systemic mercury
body burden (when other materials are available) is what? CB
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carabelli
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 436

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

"phildoc" <phildoc@buckeye-express.com> wrote in message
news:OJ6dndiFYZaR3ZPZRVn-qQ@buckeye-express.com...
Quote:
Although the study could have some merit, there's not much to go on as far
as the abstract is concerned. What are the controlled factors in this
study? How old were these people? What was the environment in which they
lived? What was their diet? If you tell me, that other than their
exposure to mercury from the amalgams, these people lived in bubbles and
had no exposure to elemental mercury elsewhere (i.e. lead pipes carrying
drinking water, lead paint exposure, urban living conditions when leaded
gas was all the rage), then I'll listen. Until then that abstract has
more holes than Swiss cheese.

--Phil



Buckle up, and I would suggest padding a 2' X 2' area of the wall by the
computer. Then it won't hurt so much when you bang your head on it. Been
there done that.

carabelli
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phildoc
medicine forum beginner


Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Although the study could have some merit, there's not much to go on as far
as the abstract is concerned. What are the controlled factors in this
study? How old were these people? What was the environment in which they
lived? What was their diet? If you tell me, that other than their exposure
to mercury from the amalgams, these people lived in bubbles and had no
exposure to elemental mercury elsewhere (i.e. lead pipes carrying drinking
water, lead paint exposure, urban living conditions when leaded gas was all
the rage), then I'll listen. Until then that abstract has more holes than
Swiss cheese.

--Phil


"Chuck" <ShorThing7@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141724466.629438.314510@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
"Total mercury levels were significantly higher in subjects with a
greater number of occlusal amalgam surfaces (>12) compared with those
with fewer occlusal amalgams (0-3) in all types of tissue (all P </=
0.04)."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16501347&query_hl=23&itool=pubmed_docsum
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Chuck
medicine forum Guru


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 1132

PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Tissue mercury levels in relation to number of amalgams Reply with quote

Quote:
Joel344 wrote:
Yeah Chuckster is right ..... the F.B.I. is investigating pizin ......
Joel344

Unfortunately for open minded, forward looking dental professionals,
Joel is a babbling moron who represents them ever so poorly.
Fortunately, for the mounting public who seek the truth, they see
through him like a clean window. As one MD, who has been seeking
treatment for his own debilitating, yet unknown, autoimmune illness
told me... "I used to think that anyone who thought amalgam fillings
could initiate or exacerbate illness were quacks" ... until he did
independent research. Thankfully he is doing better. Keep up the great
(contra) work Joel. If you had a clue you might see what a pathetic
fool you are - mercury is not an essential nutrient (but a severely
deleterious toxin) and should not be used for placement in the mouth as
to add to systemic Hg body burden. CB
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